Pirie Panthers
Years ago

MJ v Kobe v LeBron - Great Article

I saw earlier in the week the same old debate coming up about now players are better than past players etc.

I found this article on ESPN which puts alot of perspective on the what's what of the BIG 3.

Air standards seem out of reach
http://linky.com.au/1cubi

Happy Reading.

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Big Ads  
Years ago

Can you provide another link to the article PP? I went to the link above but it directed me to an ESPN page full of playoff stories.

Reply #237728 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Here it is:

http://linky.com.au/18368

The next time you see one of those innovative Kobe-LeBron puppet commercials, savor it, because it may be the only matchup we get this season between the game's two biggest and best stars.

With LeBron's Cavaliers on the brink of summer vacation and Kobe's Lakers in a dogfight with the Denver Nuggets, who knows if we'll get to see the real deals try to one-up each other with the same passion as their marionettes?

You can't blame Nike for pushing the potential dream matchup, and the roommate concept was a nice touch.

It was also right on the money. Figuratively speaking.

LeBron and Kobe are indeed roommates, living under the same roof built by Michael Jordan. Let's call it a mobile home -- one that's, of course, crazy mad plush -- because everywhere they go, the ceiling of their Jordan-constructed digs travels with them.

Everything they do on the basketball court is compared to Jordan. Obviously, that's a compliment to their great skills, but it's also a near-impossible standard that often clouds the judgment of their critics.

I mentioned to LeBron a few weeks ago that he's always being compared to Jordan. His response was a healthy one that I'm sure allows him to keep his sanity.

"Man, there'll never be another Michael Jordan," he said. "You'll drive yourself crazy trying to be the next Michael Jordan."

I'm not saying it's wrong to compare these guys to Jordan, mind you. In every field of endeavor, we compare today's best to the best ever, so this is quite natural.

My point is just that Jordan changed the standard by which NBA superstars are measured, and that can often diminish the achievements of the great ones who follow him.

[+] EnlargeMichael Jordan
Jonathan Daniel /AllsportKobe and LeBron will have a hard time matching MJ's six rings.

For instance, with Jordan winning six titles without a dominant big man and with just one perennial All-Star teammate (Scottie Pippen) and with such nondescript guys as Stacey King, Bill Wennington, Will Perdue, Jud Buechler, Randy Brown, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, B.J. Armstrong, Scott Burrell, Luc Longley, Jason Caffey and Scott Williams playing key roles, a title is not just a title anymore.

It's no longer enough for a truly, truly great player to win just a title; he must win multiple titles. Then, even if he wins multiple titles, we analyze who he won them with and how good his teammates were.

That's why people seem to have forgotten that Kobe already has won three championships. We always belittle Kobe's three rings by saying, "But he had Shaq."

Yeah, and?

It's like Kobe has to win a championship without Shaq to validate himself.

He can thank Jordan for that.

And if the Cavs fail to defy history by rallying from their 3-1 deficit in the East finals versus Orlando, LeBron will take hits in some quarters for not being Jordanesque enough.

Never mind that he's scored more points in the first four games of a conference finals series than anyone else (including Jordan); LeBron is averaging 42 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists on 50 percent shooting. Or that he hasn't had one teammate score 20 or more points in this series, a sad reality that hasn't happened in a conference final since MJ's Bulls lost to Detroit in 1989. Or that he has just one other starter hitting at least 44 percent of his shots. Or that the Cavs are the only team left standing that doesn't have at least two legitimate stars. Or that he doesn't have anything close to a Pippen or a frontline stopper like Dennis Rodman.

But such is life After Mike.

The legends we lift up and adore from the B.M. (Before Mike) days weren't held to nearly as high a standard.

First of all, before Mike, perimeter players weren't measured by their championships, because no matter how good you were, you needed a big man to win big.

Oscar Robertson, whose triple-double play we laud (and rightly so), won only one title, and that was as a 32-year-old, 11-year veteran playing with a young Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Yet Robertson, who averaged 19 points and 8 assists as a champion rather than the 30-12-11 we praise him for, is still viewed as possibly the best guard ever not named Jordan.

The Logo, Jerry West, played 10 seasons with a healthy Elgin Baylor and four with a healthy Wilt Chamberlain and won just one ring. He lost seven times in the NBA Finals before winning his lone championship (and eight times overall) yet he's nicknamed "Mr. Clutch."

I hesitate to write this next line because it feels sacrilegious, but it's true: If West were being held to the same standard as Kobe and LeBron, he'd be known as "Mr. Clutching His Throat."

Larry Bird won three rings, but none without Top 50 All-Time teammates Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, not to mention the scores of other solid Celtics he played with over the years, including Hall of Famers Bill Walton and Tiny Archibald.

And though Magic Johnson's five rings all came with Kareem, I've never heard him questioned because he never won one without the game's all-time leading scorer. Of course, Magic also had guys like James Worthy, Byron Scott, Jamaal Wilkes, Norm Nixon and Michael Cooper to finish his no-look dimes.

See, that's how good Jordan was. Before him, conventional wisdom was that you couldn't lead the league in scoring and lead a dynasty, that you couldn't lack a dominant big man and build a dynasty.

Can Kobe and LeBron ever reach MJ's rarified air?

We'll see. But if not, they're still in some pretty lofty company.

Chris Broussard is a senior writer at ESPN The Magazine.

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Big Ads  
Years ago

Good article and sums up many of my thoughts.

I think (barring injury) that Lebron will sit next to Jordan when his career is done. Both have skills and talents that make them offensively unstoppable and there are many similarities between the Bulls of the mid/late 80's and the recent Cav teams. I hope for Lebron's sake he gets an All-Star running mate soon.

On the issue of the finals, I don't really care much for the conspiracy theories flooding across chat forums (because my preferred teams are out of finals contention). Still, and no disrespect to he Magic, I'd love to watch a Lebron v Kobe Finals series. Great rivalries makes great copy.

As for Kobe he'll no doubt be spoken about as being one of the greats (which has been helped by playing with the Lakers) but he'll still be sitting below Jordan and Lebron on my list of greatest ever players.

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stimulated  
Years ago

LeBron is and will be a great player but like we've all now seen with Kobe, he'll never get to the same level as MJ. It's not even close despite how much ESPN and all the other hype machines try and compare these guys to the GOAT.

Reply #237746 | Report this post


Its funny that you believe all the hype that MJ is the GOAT

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billo  
Years ago

Yep, because Wilt's 2 rings and inabilty to dominate a 6-10 Bill Russell elevate him way ahead of Jordan.

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hereschenes  
Years ago

It's impossible to meaningfully compare great players that played in different eras, IMO. Try watching a Bulls playoff game from the 90s some time and comparing it to today's Magic-Cavs game. The games back then ran at a slothful pace compared to today's NBA.

And besides, how are you supposed to compare Jordan, Kobe or LeBron (or anyone for that matter) to Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell? Different eras, different rules, different playing styles, different positions... there's just too much distance on every axis of measurement. Counting titles or comparing stats really doesn't tell you very much. Greatest player of an era? Maybe. But I don't believe in the GOAT as much more than a parochial, subjective label. And not that there's anything wrong with that...

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LA Boy  
Years ago

IMO Lebron will be the best of all time. I've never seen a player like him

Reply #237777 | Report this post


Jordan is, without a doubt, the best shooting guard of the 90s

and billo, what do u know. Nothing i suppose

Reply #237779 | Report this post


ESP  
Years ago

In two years time, all you guys will be asking the question "Is Kevin Durant better than Jordan?"

The question used to be "Is Kobe better than Jordan?" many agreed and now those same people ask the question "Is Lebron better than Jordan?" not "Is Lebron better than Kobe?"

The questions are rhetorical because there is no categorical way of proving an answer with so many variables. But the simple fact of the matter is that because the eternal question is always "Is he better than Jordan?" actually provides the answer in itself. Jordan is always the benchmark that the next superstar is compared to.... so the answer is simple.

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rotateonthis  
Years ago


He can chalk his hands in a cloud of ego dust and strut , strut , strut as if he was a colorful free range bird in the midst of a stuttering thrust , searching for a defensive body to plow thru , whistle , block , have some free throws you bust .

But he can't quite shoot em and lacks ultimate class , but am sure when he finally gets his ring he will , he will send that Mad Dog KG's post championship speech into the realm of humbleness .




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XY  
Years ago

Forget relative skill level and all the rest, the difference between Jordan and his competition is that Jordan's story (still) talks the loudest. What he did was capture the hearts and minds of a generation of people across the world, thrusting basketball onto the front pages of newspapers and headlining sports bulletins. He was the most recognisable person in the world at one stage.

Not all of that comes down to Jordan's skills or class, he might just have been very lucky to live in a rarified time. But unless that fervour of intense adulation returns to basketball (unlikely), there will never be another basketball player to make the impact of Jordan, because his impact was not just an impact felt on the court.

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playtime  
Years ago

you can't compare eras - todays players are bigger and more athletic now then they were in the old days - and Kobe being being the greatest player today - well that sort of answers who is the greatest !!

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Isaac  
Years ago

XY, great points.

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gavmiester  
Years ago

Love this argument as its one that really is impossible to win or lose for that matter. Lebron is unbelievable. His physical skills and vision are freakish. Kobe is one of the best guys Ive seen in the last 2 mins of a game, period.
To me though, a couple of things stand out with MJ other than needing two hands for his rings.
One, all this talk of eras whilst somewhat true when talking of Russell and Wilt, is kind of crap when talking of MJ. The guy comes out of retirement, and still has his way as a senior citizen with the leagues elite. The way he transformed his game from relying on pure athleticism to having an automatic jumper was amazing. And in the middle years when he had both, he was obviously un-guardable.
But the main difference can be summed up in two words "hand check".
Does anyone in their right minds think Steve Nash wins 2 MVPs without the change of interpretation of the hand check rule.
Go back and watch some games from the early 90s as an example. Watch how MJ delt with the Pistons and the Knicks physically pushing him when he handled the ball. Maybe we should be thankful MJ isnt 26 again and playing now, or we could be watching him shoot 40 foul shots a game and it would be about as interesting as watching the Spurs play......BYAH.

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