apologies with the grammer and spelling

The introduction of worlds for U/17s will have an impact. Good or bad ? It's to early to know.
The AIS will have a larger intake next year to cater, this may help.

I think the development of 16-17 years olds isn't such a problem. At that stage they are playing in Under 18s which is the elite junior competition and no doubt receiving mostly excellent instructions from some very very good coaches. I think when they hit Under 20s the individual development slows to a certain extent, except for those lucky enough to be at the AIS or in a program that caters nfor individuals to train and improve.
Of course it also comes down to how much time the player is willing to put in in their own time. But guidance is a must if they want to improve some of the finer points of the game.

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I think that the problem with the current system is that the kids from under10's or 12's play all year round.

Sports like football & soccer have a proper break.

By the tome the season starts again, the players are all fired up and raring to again.

Our kids do not have that proper break. After 6 years of solid playing & training, going through the same motions, other sports will look more attractive.

I am very surprised the amount of kids that drop out of basketball when the reach the late teens.

SA should have a thriving senior competion.

Basketball is a great sport for physical development, and if you are very good at basketball, you wll more than likely be very good at a few other sports like football.

We need to keep our young players keen and hungry for the game.

This is a very intersting age old problem which comes back I think to the way the basic seasons and state competitions are structured from domestic seasons to State Institutes like SASI then onto to the AIS.

Basketball is clearly controlled by 1 or 2 individuals or self interested groups in this state.

There are 2 clear defining factors - Football and other sports actually encourage their players to participate in sports like bball etc as it enhances their skill base and makes them better footballers. In other words they do not have a head in the sand attitude like certain bball coaches in this state do have when it comes to other sport. If they look beyond the square they would realize that there are a mountain of kids out there who are good enough, coordinated and committed to play div 1 and 2 bball but choose not too as the bball way is not flexible.

World under 17 comps, SASI etc mean nothing to most 13-14 year olds in general. Kids this age look at today - not tommorrow or 3 years down the track. I could name half a dozen kids in this state alone at the moment would walk into SASI but don't participate due to other commitments or cost of travel etc

Footy also has the benefit of being seasonal and a break of 4-5 months every year. It also has the benefit of the SANFL pumping promotional dollars into the clubs and kids - something that BSA has definately not done. To give an example my lad played both SAPSASA footy and Bball last year and what the SANFL did for those kids was way beyond belief. What did BSA do - NIL.

Footy also provides a different kind of commradarie no doubt due to the way the game is played and the numbers that participate.

Footy unlike bball is also very interested in the kids that participate in grassroots lower grade comps. Bball play low grade comps purely as a revenue raiser - and this comes accross in the standard of umps and coaches etc - all the wrong reasons.

Both are fabulous games - one prospers because the right people run it for the right reasons, the other flounders because the individuals of self centred interests running it.

Anon

You make some good points and I do agree, but how many can afford to go to other countries, and how many kids wish to go to the olympics. Yes some will, but MOST don't. Most want to play at the best of their ability, have fun and then they drop out due to how we run the game, mostly because they are sick of the commitment of 2-3 trainings etc.

I like you love the game.

This is the whole point - we are making it elitist and driving kids away.

Kids can play a season of footy, soccer, cricket, volleyball etc for $150 without the commitment. Throw in part time jobs, school work and it is a concern.

Some coaches where my kid plays are now starting to become flexible as they realize the better kids will walk as they get older.

Should we downplay the summer and give these better kids a break and hence others an opportunity in a higher grade ?

We have to start looking outside of the square.There is nothing better than watching talent develop. We have to find a way to keep these kids in the game without dictating - particularly with so many choices that they have these days.

#108902,

Players who truly love the sport wouldn't be concerned about playing it in another country or representing their country in the Olympics. They play basketball because it brings them enjoyment through being part of a team, making friendships and the opportunity to use their physical skills. Even those that don't have the 'necesssary physical qualities' (ie, the vertically challenged!) enjoy basketball.

If your offspring (or you) are playing basketball with the goal of playing for your country I'm sure they (or you) will be disappointed!

Anon

Let me assure you my lad plays div 1 bball and is very competitive and would not play social ball. He also plays district cricket and footy out at sturt so I have a fair idea on how they treat kids and what they do for them.

I like you, want to keep all kids playing bball and All I am saying is that to keep ALL kids playing our great game we have to look at what we do for them at ALL levels.

We some how have to create an environment whereby they do not want to leave. That gets back to culture, expectation, costs etc.

Everything that the new BSA were going to address - but probably never will.

wow, didnt expect this to turn into a flame topic,

seriously thought what can be done to entice these young players to stick with bball rather then go the afl route, i know $$ is a big factor but just seems disapointing from and outsider to see roughly 20% of the top draftees comeing from high level basketball background

(#108936),

Not a deafening silence at all!
Not every 16/17 year old in SASI, State, or Div 1 dreams of becoming an olympian. Sure, they love basketball, they like to work hard, train hard, want to become as good as they can be, and want to represent their club/state well. They are ambitious adolescents.

But they are also aware that there are other things in life to enjoy.
The sense of missing out on these things builds up as they get older.

I think there are two groups of drop-outs at the so-called elite level
1) The ones who want to do more outside basketball but cannot combine it with elite level training (Sasi, State, Div1 at its peak get very involved).
2) The ones that suddenly realise they don't have a higher level to go to, because they are not good enough or not tall enough. Pushing themselves ridiculously hard makes no sense.

If you don't mind either of these two groups dropping out (and that is what you're suggesting), then all's fine.

If you want to keep them in the game, as is Culturals choice, then the elite level coaches will have to
1. allow them some time for a life outside of basketball
2.make sure their expectations are realistic from the start

However if you want to keep them by playing Div 3, you'll lose them anyway. They'll get bored because they are too good for that.

Good discussion and points made by all - the fact of the matter as the numbers indicate are that at an elite level the other sports treat the individual much better. Sure you may get a newley or an ingles - Does that suggest a huge success rate given the number of kids that play and participate in a so called elite environment - perhaps population comes into it as well ?

You may say well go play other sports - that is not the answer because the game will just keep losing talented kids - aand when the talent leaves the standard drops and its down hill. Some one needs to address the system and have a look at what is happening in this state.

Having played junior Div 1 and ABL and been involved in SASI and state squads, I can say that the time involved is extremely intensive. During year 12 I was playing and training 16 times a week, but my goal then was to be able to play in the quality mens league of that time. That league isn't there now. These so-called drop-outs who should play div 3 or social should have the opportunity to play in a quality league. Then and only then will the "elite" make it to NBL and higher. As a side point, IMO all senior games should be brought forward at least 1 hour to allow juniors to watch without staying up past 10:30pm to see the finish of a game thereby encouraging them to pursue that path. As a current div 1 coach, if my boys want to do something other than basketball and there is the occasional conflict, I will live with it as there is plenty more to life than basketball. Kids should be allowed to play several sports during high school to determine which they will have the best opportunities through. But at the end of the day, it is up to the kids what they choose. All we can do is provide them with the opptunities.

We all hear of other sports cross training with basketball to increase skills. Why then dosnt Bball cross train with other sports?

The answer may be that Bball is a very skillful game in itself that covers most skills from other sports. My daughter plays Div 1 Bball at a junoir level. She also plays school netball, volleyball and does athletics.

The athletics does help her on a Bball court, but as far as netball & volley ball are concerned, bball skills contribute to them, not the other way around. Yes BA & BSA can improve our game at a state & local level, no dought; however if the grass is greener on the other side, open the gate and go have a chew.

As far as Bball coaches scoffing at my daughter playing other sports, it just does not happen; although I must say in the past when the sporting commitments have clashed, Bball has always come out on top.

109012

I am not saying all u17 kids will play league footy. Did not even imply that.

All I am quite simply saying is that in this day and age we need to be more flexible with multi talented kids. Not mentioning names but in under 16's at the moment there are 4 div 1 kids from various clubs (very good 2nd year players at that) that are tossing up between various sports. You don't have to be einstein to think 2 of them would be state players this year. All from the top 4 clubs.

Ask ourselves why ? That is what we have to find the answer too and that is the only point I make - We should be keeping these fine kids.

Nothing more , nothing less

Vadersmate

you may very well be surprised but volleyball helps agility, football helps toughness, endurance and cricket helps reflexes. These are just some benefits. Granted BBall helps the other sports too. Bball though is a more individualistic self centred game played in a confined space and yes it is definately more skillful.

Open mind; I have to disagree on a few points.

I was talking about my daughter & womens Bball so football & cricket have never come into the equation for us.

As far as agility goes on a volley ball court, they tend to stand in one place and rotate spots every now and then; given the blocking in volley ball is close to blocking in Bball, however I tend to think that you need more agility to play Bball, combined with speed and combined with passing & shooting skills.

My daughter and most in her team have proven that good Bballers generally make good school netballers; however the reverse is not the case. There may be exceptions to this, but it is not the norm for a good school netballer to be a great Bballer.

Sorry, Bball for skill, speed and agility by a country mile.

#109052,

Agreed, you can teach a big kid to dribble and shoot and you can't teach a short kid to grow.

Unfortunately, in basketball selection circles, the distinction between tall and short is made way too early in a kids career. I've seen instances of tall kids with inferior skills being put in higher div's than the smaller but more talented kids in their age group. This is no doubt on the pretence that their skills will be improved to the same or better level than the shorter kid through better coaching and competition.

The shorter (and more talented) kid eventually gets pissed off with this process as in the lower divs he receives inferior coaching and plays against inferior players so they switch to footy (or soccer, or tennis, or tiddleywinks).

If only the original basketball club was aware that by the time the player reaches 16 (or 17, or 18) they're six inches taller than the less skilled but taller players of a few years ago. And despite the fact they haven't played basketball for the last 3 or 4 years, due to the switch to their new sport, they're still a better basketballer than the 'taller' kids who got the higher grading.

109054

you make a great point in the kids that are in div 2 and 3 and work hard may make it through dedication - and good on em and fantastic if they do get the reward they deserve. The point is though we have to be flexible to enable these other kids to work just as hard as well within the confines of the programs. - Then imagine how much better the comps and the standard would become.

Every good kid we lose from our great game is step backwards.

Kids may work hard etc, but when all is said and done look at all the really good junior players that progress and they play on instinct and the majority are bball savvy and know what to do and most importantly when to do it.

That you cannot teach a kid in any sport.

Great topic though and good points by all

Junior b/ball stadiums are full of a lot of manufactured talent - been in U10's since 7-8 years old. Some will be b/ball savvy but not many, putting it bluntly they are manufactured players - I see a lack of natural talent being developed - eg kids that come late to the sport and have the savvy and are overlooked because of kids that have been there since U10's - can't compete with 1st in best dressed so to speak and the parents and history that come with them.

Most kids coming late to this sport don't have any chance in being looked at and developed. So they may as well go and play football. - As there is no programme for kids with potential in B/Ball - it seems that you have to have the right height, skills & fitness NOW not in 4 years when you might be 6'4" but now when you are 5' nothing. And when they are 6'4" OR 6'6" the kid has already carved out a nice career in footy or whatever other sport they choose because some Footy Coach etc. could spot natural ability and talent and the kid is lost to b/ball 4 ever

thanks for your input people, i how have a better grasp on it, for someone who doesnt come from a bb background

Point is this - At our Club most of the better Coaches only want to coach Div 1 or Div 2. It is a cold hard fact. So if you are in div 3 or below and have a natural ability for the game you will be overlooked - development programme is nowhere the same for Div 3 or lower - Kids aren't really looked at - and the Coaches who coach Div 3 or lower, generally are Mum or Dad coaches - and have never played the game. Kids who have been in Div 1 since U10 drop out at U16's or U18's because they havent continued to grow and want to try a different sport - kids in Div 3 or lower are fed-up with being overlooked for whatever reason by the time they reach u16's and go and play something else.

Perhaps the Clubs should look at implementing "Development squads" from U12 or U14's" for the kids that do show potential and need extra work because of coming late to the sport, or being late developers - It should be kept to 2nd year Div 2's and lower - Seeing that second year Div 2 kids are generally overlooked as well - Choose kids that are willing to put in the hard yards with parents that will support a programme like this. Get the Div 1 Coach to run it or someone of the same ilk within your Club. A couple of years of running something like this and you may be surprised at what it produces. I bet most of the parents would pay for it as well!

Well thats a damn shame - perhaps the powers that be should do something to fix it - because in reading this thread it sounds like I should advise my child to go and play football and cricket now and just play social b/ball as there seems to be no incentive to do your best in this sport unless you are at Div 1 level

Anon 109012, that's an extreme case. Please reread the post as I said the occasional conflict can be dealt with.