Anonymous
Years ago

How many Teams is too many?

Several of the better performing clubs boast having 40-50 plus teams which means a significant number of kids play below their ability.
Now before we go off on another pro/rel tangent is it time to consider zoning as a fairer distribution of the talent base?
I can hear sturt, forestville and norwood screaming from here but the facts are smaller clubs are being strangled by the blinkers parents are wearing.
All the top clubs because of numbers are stretched for coaches yet none of them support a zone system as they would rather dominate by depletion.
In addition to the massive numbers that these 3 clubs in particular have, they also run large numbers of country players and the classic catch 22 arises.
weaker clubs can't attract players becasue of their position on the ladders etc and well credentialed coaches exercise their choices to go where the better talent is.
Sturt is the leader of the, 'well if you got off your arse theory' which is so intellectually weak responding to it is a waste of time.
Unless clubs can come to a common understanding that to strengthen Basketball we need radical changes in clubs and a goal consenus, then one of the top 3 clubs will dominate in a cycle and overall weaken our state further.
Yes its the right of parents to put their kid where they think they will prosper. Yes the top clubs have better coaches. Yes everyone wants to win. Yes country kids have the right to play in the city. Zones would dictate areas of choice for city and country kids and do away with the poaching,bribing unhealthy system we work under today.Unless reform occurs bball will continue to weaken substantially.
Many of the kids playing in larger clubs would benefit from playing with lesser rated clubs.
Zones would stop wealthier clubs from attracting star players with promises of gold or SASI and that happens just ask the Prime Minister. Zones would make it a fairer system less open to abuse and bring us into line with many other sports that flourish.
As clubs are mindless bodies of self interest I would expect to be shot down for this and chastised relentlessly by those who know better but we are slipping down the ladder of national rankings because no one can put basketball before club.
If we can't get this off the ground then lets give the top clubs the right to field as many div 1 teams as can be successful and raise our standards.
Lets look at merging clubs and all options that might gives us an edge

Topic #9456 | Report this topic


Axeman  
Years ago

Good in theory.

IMO it could only work if players currently at clubs that would normally be outside of their zone could stay at their current club. There would also have to be some kind of "brother-sister" rule that would allow kids to play at clubs that their siblings are currently at.

Also remember the SANFL has a zone system in place. It has never stopped talented kids from playing at the club of their choice.

Reply #107358 | Report this post


Hillbilly  
Years ago

Axeman agree with club of choice but it costs them money to switch clubs

Reply #107363 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

don't worry the clubs with the players are constantly being held to ransom with their kids "going elsewhere for a beeter life"

Reply #107365 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

9456 - To be quite honest I think most kids that are playing with the BIG 3 are within their zones eg "council area". Most parents like myself chose their children's club on the basis that it was the closest to where they live. And yes there are some kids that their closest clubs may be one of the minor clubs, yet they choose one of the BIG 3 - But these Clubs (other than the BIG 3) obviously are not offering the same service as the BIG 3 are offering and these parents I am in no doubt have tried the minor clubs and aren't happy for whatever reason - trainings aren't as good, opportunities aren't as good, etc, I think though if you zoned you would find that you would still not attract the kids or the talent to the minor clubs, as most of the kids from the BIG 3 that you speak of actually live in the eastern suburbs and are close to south of city. I do not believe that you actually have any case for zoning because most actually choose the Clubs that are closest to where they live - and to be honest if I moved any of my kids it would be to one of the other BIG 2 because they are the next closest to where we live. The other thing which is really interesting though is the demographic of the best schools in Adelaide - Private, Catholic and Public are also in the same Council areas as these BIG 3 clubs - it is a cold hard fact that people want to live near the best schools. And yes, there are good schools in other suburbs - but I moved to the house where I live because of the school choices for my kids (private and Public) and I have my kids in both (because of their differing needs)- and it has also placed me in the middle to the BIG 3 B/B Clubs, closer to the one which we joined - I think the issue here is really zoning the Country Kids and perhaps spreading them around a bit more, because I really dont think you have an arguement for City kids - and I would think that if Clubs upset parents and kids and they wanted to leave for whatever reason - they should be able to, and most of the kids at our Club have come because of some animosity that has been at the Club that they were at which was closest to where they live. In saying that all clubs lose kids, for the same reasons that I spoke of above - and most parents will then go to the next closest club. which in our area, as I have explained is one of the BIG 3.

Reply #107369 | Report this post


The Journo  
Years ago

who cares who plays for who just as long as there are a lot of kids playing basketball

Reply #107378 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Journo, thats precisely the issue...no one cares

Reply #107380 | Report this post


Dribbler  
Years ago

9456,
In your first paragraph you say that the larger clubs have too many teams, and that a lot of kids are playing a division below their ability. Then, in your last paragraph, you suggest merging clubs.

Wouldn't that mean you have more kids playing a grade or two below their ability??

My kids started playing for one of the so called "big 3". I moved them to a smaller club because they were not happy . One now plays ABL.
This small club had a player poached by a larger club, seduced by promises of SASI & interstate trips & better coaches & training. That kid is struggling to hold his place in Div 3 seniors.

To say that smaller clubs do not have quality coaches, is an insult to the many dedicated and hard working volunteers at these clubs.

As I have said before, relegation will not work here in SA because we do not have the population here. Until BSA settle into their new job description, all the rest of us can do is offer as much help as we can to those who do all the hard work.

Reply #107384 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Dribbler. No offense was intended to the quality of coaches in smaller clubs. My point was that it is more difficult to get better coaches to smaller clubs for the reasons given.
On ur point of more kids playing below their ability if u merge- perhaps but that depends if you go with clubs being able to field more than one div 1 team.
I agree with the problems associated with poaching from smaller clubs and the eneptness of BSA to follow it up. Many of the smaller clubs have fallen victim to poaching and Mavericks have been decimated. Strange how 'we know who' follows up smaller clubs attempts to get players vigorously but 'the club' seems exempt from these same rules.
Zoning would help.
#369
Check the post codes of your players and you will find a good percentage are not local to the big 3. Div 2/3 players and below may be a local majority however.
Introduce zoning but allow the kids playing with clubs now an exemption to stay with that club.

Reply #107404 | Report this post


Melvin Corpuscle  
Years ago

Interesting to note that Norwood and Southern have more teams than any of the "big 3" ... yet are not included in this conversation. Number of teams is obviously not the indicator - the successful clubs are successful due to having structures in place, tradition of success and reputation. This will always attract players and parents. On the other end, Centrals only have 16 teams, but I'll never approach them lightly as they have a rugged style of play and play with desperation - and THIS would attract people to the club. I think players will be attracted to the style of game they want to play, and the reputation they want to have.

Reply #107420 | Report this post


Melvin Corpuscle  
Years ago

and everything goes in cycles anyway ... when i was coming thru NCT were one of the powers, and woodville were going thru a purple patch, and all clubs have a good period and have bad periods ... this doesn't exactly address the zone question, just a different take on it.

Reply #107421 | Report this post


Magpie  
Years ago

Excuse my ignorance, I get Sturt and Forrestville, but who is the other club to make "The Big 3"

Reply #107424 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Norwood is the third. I don't think Melvin has been paying attention!

Reply #107429 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

isnt north one of the more sucsesful clubs in sa??

Reply #107502 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

And going by Friday's results (against Sturt) West's junior boys seem to do alright for a club which would have one of the smallest amount of juniors.

Reply #107517 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

107429, I think his point is that bigger is not always better. If you dont have the quality coaches to support your players then you are going to struggle. Look at Norwood's div 1 results, they are struggling across the board despite having alot of players.

Eastern and West are doing well and they only have a few players.

Reply #107526 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Time and time again we hear about zoneing.

Well, how about sdomebody takes the time out to actually come up with a zoneing concept like pro/rel have.

Divide the city and country up into zones which fairly divide up the amount of potential players in SA.

Then prove that it can work. I think that you will find that Due to the closeness of Sturt Forestville and South it is impossible. Under the current BSA Development Officers positions, they have divided the metor area up. Sturt has about 30 schools in their area. Forestville have about 35. Centrals have 120+ and North have 70+.

Prove that it can happen.

Reply #107529 | Report this post


In the Know  
Years ago

So what haapend to those who are out of the existing zones. They have to move?

Reply #107531 | Report this post


Melvin Corpuscle  
Years ago

Would have thought the big three were Sturt, Forestville and North. Norwood never occurred to me as being one of the big three ...

Reply #107534 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Norwood I think you will find has the most junior teams of all..........not enough coaches but heaps of lower division players.

Reply #107543 | Report this post




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