You are welcome to talk to me any time about my behaviour in respect of that call

i have also had experince of one of those referees who should not be refereeing and i say that as a father of some learner referees and as a player parent and a coach - the ref is a legal liability waiting to happen

you are right that i should not have yelled but you are very incorrect in your explanation (at this stage i was very concerned for the welfare of my daughter after numerous head-high tackles and other uncalled incidents - it was bordering on unsafe)

the ref who made the call was in no way in a taught position nor a correct one

if it was morphett vale, wayne - i would accept your side of the story more. Your knowledge and status should command more respect from the critics.

The standard of refereeing is very junior down states rd way, i have very low expectations and shudder when we play down there.

This goes hand in hand with some very physical moves from tigerettes and stand over tactics from adults over kids reffing - eye witness - facts are facts, jack !

As UIC on the night I believe this conversation is going nowhere. Wayne you know me well enough to come to me if you have those kind of concerns, I hope you will do so in future.

To whomever made the original post, if you are a ref then I hope you will be honest enough to let me know who you are. Surely posting such a situation you would have known the response that you would have received. This will not help anyone.

To everyone, M/vale has gone from 2 sometimes 3 courts to 4 almost full courts on a Friday Night. Three referees were forced to ref from 6pm - 11pm without a break, I myself did so as well as doing two solo. As has been said before there are too many games for available referees.

I think I can speak for most UIC's when I say that if any coach, player or parent has a serious problem with a referee then they should find the UIC on the night. Hopefully they won't be refereeing.

I did see that situation and did not have a problem with the call from where I was standing. I can't make comment on the whole game as I was refereeing during most of it.

Daniel i actually looked for you at the end i have also voiced my concerns with nathan

I am intending to chat with you regarding this guy - i had no intention of voicing my concerns here but i will always respond when attacked (what else would you expect of me?)

i will also say that it was not me who initiated a loud cross court conversation - i did groan loudly and make noise at the call

but it was the ref who yelled first across court
i replied that it was a push - loudly across court

it was the end of any comment i made for the night

i also understand your difficulties as we discussed on the night and this will be my final comment on the thread

to the original poster - anytime you have issue with me please speak to me and feel free to put my name to anything that involves me even if you will not stand up and put your own to your petty sniping and moralistic tattle-taling

daniel i appreciate the situation with good mature, experienced refs down south - you can't be on 4 courts at once.


I know it would take organization - but maybe we could balance the refs out - ie - 3 level 2s, 3 level 1s, 3 in training to a stadium.

we seem to get the most problems when a heap of younger kids or inexperienced refs accumulate, when another stadium may be having a "Div 2 night" with a swag of senior refs.

I was still chasing referees at 6pm Friday night, I made 32 phone calls during the week, we're struggling.

Morphett Vale rarely sees people other then those who live quite close. Despite the fact Tigers junior program is greatly improved this season (as was proven by the results on Friday) it's still very hard to get anyone to travel down South. It should be said that apart from one young referee who was doing me a favour, the referees who were there on Friday all are quite experienced considering the state we are in. While not trying to make excuses as I said all the referees there were over worked and NONE of them complained about the extra workload needed from them. They are a dedicated and personalable group who were really doing their best and I expect no less.:-)

To the four teams who were unlucky enough to get me reffing their games alone I thank you for your mature attitudes and great sportsmanship. All four were well mannered and quiet, considering I no doubt would have missed a call here and there.

All coaches should feel free to come talk to me at Morphett Vale (and no doubt any UIC at any stadium) while I'm filling in as UIC and I will attempt to solve any problems you may have.

Ok. First of all i am the referee in 'question' here, and would like to put over my situation on the game.

The call in question was as the first post explained. The dribbler was going down the line, with defensive pressure (not pushing) and stepped on the line.

"The ref who made the call was in no way in a taught position nor a correct one"

Okay this comment I do not agree with. Two players running up the left hand side of the court, I was moving from lead, off the baseline, and following behind them closely, so I would like to ask, what is your interpretation of where I should of been? Had I run and got side on to them I would of been straight lined and not see any contact. So I refer back to your comment, I was not in the taught or correct position?

"At this stage I was very concerned for the welfare of my daughter after numerous head-high tackles and other uncalled incidents - it was bordering on unsafe"

- Head-high tackles, and other uncalled incidents? There was not one head-high tackle or uncalled incident. I'm not even sure why you included this, as there was none of this rough play at all.

"The standard of refereeing is very junior down states rd way, I have very low expectations and shudder when we play down there"

- Out of the seven or eight of the referees at Morphett vale on a Friday night, about half referee seniors. I think the fact that people have built a reputation and refuse to adjust their views is what creates this opinion. This happens at every home stadium, 'the refs are there to screw us'. Most referees on a Friday night are out there doing favours for umpires in charges, or just refereeing because of the shortage. Many referees and choosing not to do juniors because of the abuse people are CONSTANTLY giving them.

"This goes hand in hand with some very physical moves from tigerettes and stand over tactics from adults over kids reffing - eye witness - facts are facts, jack !"

- Physicality is a part of basketball; you don't like it, change sports. The physicality never gets out of control, and when it does it is always pulled back into line. Adults do try and intimidate younger referees, at every stadium; this does not mean it works. Referees understand the courses they can take it they are copping abuse from spectators, I myself took that action Friday night to a spectator who was causing the game grief. (on a different game.)


"To everyone, M/vale has gone from 2 sometimes 3 courts to 4 almost full courts on a Friday Night. Three referees were forced to ref from 6pm - 11pm without a break"

- Daniel is 100% correct. I refereed four games Friday night, four division one games. 12-16-18-21, with minimal breaks in between. I also am recovering from a knee injury. Referees should not be expected to do more than three games on a Friday night, not to mention three division one games, with a bad knee. And to those who say, i shouldn't have been refereeing then, would you like solos on your game? I refereed mainly to cover spots and do a favour.

" But it was the ref who yelled first across court
I replied that it was a push - loudly across court"

- The coach actually initiated it. After I made the call he jumped up calling for a push, along with the rest of the bench. I gave a response but still was abused about it. From here the game deteriorated and on every call that did not go the way of your team, I heard groans, and comments about them.

This post is from my perspective, and only my opinion.


This is not a post to start crap, but one just to show you where I am coming from.
If there is a problem my e-mail is attached, feel free to e-mail me.

Daniel
[email protected]

I was actually present during this game too. I am a southern tiger, so i wil try not to be bias. I definitly saw the negativity from the beginning from the sturt coach. I have never seen him before so i am not having a dig as I dont know him. He was up off his feet every call, and yelling abuse for most of the game which then encouraged his team and bench to start their own abuse. I saw the call in question and believe the right call was made. When the abuse erupted from the sturt bench, the game began going down hill...and fast!

The ref in the firing line went and talked to the coach during a time out, but the coach did not take his answer seriously. Then spectators began to put in their piece, I thought that this was inappropriate but then the ref replied, he should not have retaliated and only addressed the coach to settle his spectators. The spectator is a respected coach and should have known better himself. And addressing the so called "head - high tackles" I think thats a bit of an exaggeration mate. I did not see any of this and watched the whole game. It was a tough and high contact game, as most Under 21 Women games are and i no your daughter is only a first year and coming from 18's its a much different ball game. Remember these girls are up to 19 and 20 yrs old, with ur daughter only being 16/17??

Anyway, on the night i believe most calls were made right. Some werent called and some soft calls, but nobody is perfect. And as for abusing refs, They are NEVER going to change their call so I have learnt with experience get over it and get on with the game. You may ask a ref why he called such a terrible call but he has done it and he cant go back, so the game must go on. I think with attacking the tigers as a club for being a bit rough and tumble, is a generalisation that is not quite correct. We are a tough bunch but in a game of basketball this is a necessity!

thanks guys - this is what the forum is about - it creates an opportunity to discuss anything, anytime.

by hearing everyone's perspective we can form a valued judgement.

whilst everyone puts a correct point of view forward - it is the mutual understanding that needs to be the outcome

Daniel Troy I find it interesting you stated there was not one uncalled incident. Thats a bit of a silly thing to say isn't, surely throughout a whole game you would've missed at least one call.
Sorry to say this guys but I have been coaching juniors for 4 years and Morphett Vale, Pasadena and Gawler are the three stadiums you go to expecting to be done over by the umpires

(especially Pasadena)

I don't think he meant literally that there was NO uncalled incidents but nothing to the way Wayne was exagerating.

Daniel is a good ref and you could do a lot worse than having him on your game.

It's interesting that you say theres no way that a ref could have called everything. It's amazing players/coaches/spectators don't realise this and demand perfection.

Instead of going to a stadium worrying about the umpires perhaps you would get more out of concentrating on your own game. Refereeing is a variable all good players have to learn to deal with.

lol, and here I was thinking my home stadium's refs are the worst...probably the least experienced! :)

Hey... well i was actually playing in the game that we are all talking about in here and even though i play for the tigers i do agree with the call!!! There were a few calls in the game that i didnt agree with and im sure there were a few other people didnt agree with... but with this call that we are all going on about it was the right call.... i dont even know why Sturt are going on about it.... they won!!! Daniel Troy is a friend of mine and he is a great Ref he did a good job that night especially him having to ref 4 div1 games in a row!! good on ya Daniel.

Looks like that was the most exciting game down at MVale last friday, sorry I left earlier.

...,
If you hadn't noticed Wayne stopped posting on this thread 10 posts ago.
Are Sturt really going on about it?
Or are you?

It's nice when good mates umpire you isn't it ... They know how to look after your best interests!

we arent that good of mates..... he has umpired a couple of game and he isint biased!!! look im not on here to start fights or anything just puttin in my opinion!!!

And we wonder why its getting harder to get people to become referees!!!

yeah i played in that game to! it was bloody ages ago yeah it was rough but thats what was good of it!! the coach was goin overboard he was only tryin to protect his daughter! like any parent would! i got hit a few times to with no calls! its just the way it goes, u dont see my parents on here do ya???

Hello,
We think welfare should not be aloud!!!! All the Mums that work and pay the people who don't go to work is not fare.