Maurice White
Years ago

Maher - adjustments needed?

Brett Maher has been arguably Adelaide's greatest player of all time. over 15 seasons he has averaged 17ppg, 4 apg won the Larry Sengstock, won 3 NBL gF's, played in many all star games.

However has his best days now passed?
Brett would be making at least a third of the teams salary -is he worth that much (now)?
Over the last 3 seasons he hasn't played a full season.
This is a tough post but I feel it needs to be discussed.

Topic #8997 | Report this topic


Milk Man  
Years ago

His hidden value is that of a motivator and mentor to the rest of the team. This is the type of experience and personality that money cant buy and every team needs one to be successful.

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Tony Blair  
Years ago

Maurice you've been reading my mind.

Not a popular move but I'd say is time to looking at asking Brett to step aside.

Fit & healthy he has been unsurpassed one of the best players to grace the sixers uniform. However, as you say for the last three seasons he has not played an entire season not having him is distruptive.

There is little use to a team having a great player taking up a lot of the salary cap yet playing at best 2/3s of the season.

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Isaac  
Years ago

Maybe a slight reduction in the next contract offer if anything, but that's all - he still gets it done when he's fit.

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thedoctor  
Years ago

Ridiculous to ask him to step aside - why not just change his role? Play him 25-30 instead of 35-40 mins a game.

Problem is Phil hasn't recruited to adjust for this change, and refuses to play the young guys he has got. Recipe for disaster IMO. Brett is being run into the ground and it may see a serious injury end his career prematurely.

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DB5  
Years ago

Surely we haven't forgotten the Wollongong game??
He definately still gets it done!
Maybe a performance based contract based on games played?

If we were grooming youngsters that could take up a bit of the slack when Brett is down, would this even be bought up?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I've said all along that when Smyth leaves he will make sure the team is a basket case.It's on its way.

Reply #101580 | Report this post


Jimmy The Snitch  
Years ago

#101580

You can say what ever you like about Phil Smyth because that's your individual prerogative but do not have the right to question his integrity towards the game of basketball (FFS he should be shown some respect) or the club that he has lead to 3 NBL championships.

You are a weak prick who is to gutless to put his name to the insult.

He may not believe in giving rookie a free ride but he would never leave the game or the state of basketball in South Australia as a basket case. It's his philosophy that won the 3 titles, so shut your big fat mouth.

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Jasmine  
Years ago

thedoctor...agreed 100%. It's common sense that when your best player is approaching his mid 30's that you might want to recruit a solid back up for him and adapt his role. You don't cast the player aside. It's the coach's job to balance maximising the player's impact on each individual game and the season at length.

Reply #101586 | Report this post


Jimmy The Snitch  
Years ago

Hang on for a second.

The Melbourne Tigers lost Andrew Gaze, Mark Bradtke and Lenard "0 for 9" Copeland in one off season and found a way of building a side that was good enough to win the title the very next season.

If Brett Maher is getting paid 25  30% of the teams salary cap, how do you expect to be able to recruit a player that could do what he does?

Hypothetically there is no reason why Adelaide could not recruit Brad Newly (or some player of his calibre) at the end of this season (just as the Tiger did with Anstey) to replace Maher if he retires. The rules for the NBL allow that to happen. It would be nice to have Ingles, Newley, Holmes and Forman in a sixer uniform but they are not and the rules allow us to potentially recruit all of them in one go.

So we are having a bad season, FFS Phil Smyth IS NOT A BAD COACH, bad coaches do not win 3 NBL title and the crappolla that he is burnt out is a load of bullocks.




Reply #101588 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

Open your eyes Jimmy - Phil's coaching has been woeful this year. From not calling time-outs to bizarre rotations, he has played a big role in the 1-5 record.

We are having a bad year. Why? Our recruits suck at the minute (Except Horvath - who is a BEAST! and Matrso has been OK). Those guys were recruited by Phil and Steve so IMO a large portion of accountability rests with them.

I hope they turn it around, and I will be in Melb on Saturday to cheer them on. But please Jimmy, don't live in the past - criticism of Phil and the Sixers is about the here and now. You sound like a Crows supporter living in the glory days of the nineties. Just like the Crows, the Sixers glory days are a distant memory, clouded by visions of "0-9", 41st birthday parties and MRI scans on calf muscles.

Reply #101590 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Brett is the heart of the team, he is worth every penny. You can see how unorganised we are when he is out, the minute he steps on court no matter how good or bad we are playing he makes the team more stable. The players seem more relaxed and focused when he is there, that may be a bad thing in terms of complacency but he is our rock. Sure try and reduce his pay a little and reduce his role but you cut his pay too much and he will look overseas, try and get a big score and settle down. We need him as long as his legs can get him around, just not till he plays like copeland!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Jimmy, I reckon those players would think twice about returning while Smyth was in place.

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Sturty6ers  
Years ago

Just read something on the NBL website...

'The Townsville Bulletin reports that Crocs forward Daniel Egan is quickly becoming known as his team's 'Mr One Per Cent'.

Sounds like Lanards' shooting percentage........

Reply #101602 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bretts value also extends off the court. He is the only one apart from Smyth with any real media savvy and ability to promote the club and the sport in this state.

IMO this alone is worth an actual pay rise, not a reduction.

In a team where the owner doesnt do anything to promote the team then someone like Brett is essential.

HIs playing ability speaks for itself.

Reply #101607 | Report this post


Jimmy The Snitch  
Years ago

The Doctor  you sound like a Port Power supporter where the first sign of trouble you come out and blame Mark Williams or in this case Phil Smyth.

Yeah we had the glory days but before Phil was coach we had no glory days. Mike Dunlap tried to do the rookie experiment and it didn't work. He walked out because and the team was turned over to Dave Claxton (remember the good times before Smyth) and with all the talent we had did jack squat. He pissed it all away because he was a joke as a coach. Phil came in and gave us glory days. Show some god damm respect.

If you are happy with how Monson, Dunlap and Dave Claxton were looking after this side, congratulations because you are only showing your ability to accept mediocrity.

I am far from happy with a 1 and 6 start but Phil and Steve can only recruit player to the program with in the Sixer management equation that they give to them.

If Phil is replaced at the end of the season, who is to say we will get someone better? Why make a change if you cannot get someone better

Reply #101618 | Report this post


Tony Blair  
Years ago

Jimmy the Snitch great you stand up for Phil & Steve

However, the majority of fans on this site believe that Phil is mailing in his effort.

He & Steve are paid regardless they are on very attractive salaries and we should never rest on our laurels 3 championships yes but this is about the here and now.

Surely we can't get to 2020 winning no premierships but still have Phil as coach. Oh but he won us 3 rings.

Phil is perceived to not to take responsiblity, he and his mouth piece Boti constantly put up excuses.

We've had the travel issue (hasn't worried perth) we've had the music is too loud, didn't see it hurting Brisbane. We haven't adjusted to the refs, we haven't adjusted to this or that.

Nothing has been the teams fault nor the coaches fault. And to call fans ignorant we'll that defines how out of touch he is with the situation.

Why keep someone cause they won three rings we'd still have Rees playing if that was the case. Maybe we still should have Davis back because he won a few.

Flippant comments aside Phil & Steve are the coaches of the team they are paid to produce results - the results aren't there and they can not and should not rest on the 'won three champhionships' they should be striving for another ring not simply going thru the moitions.

My strong mail is that the two of them will be gone at the end of the season anyway with Gold Coast throwing alot of money their way.

Reply #101628 | Report this post


Double Clutch  
Years ago

Jimmy the snitch,

The following isn't an original idea of mine, but it's something I agree with and will help you understand what others are seeing in the current coaching situation.

There are 3 different types of coaches. The authoritarian, the relaxed submissive coach and the co-operative coach. The dictator will want everything done his way, all the time, without fail. Consequences for not playing a pick and roll in the right manner could mean a lack of minutes plus a loss of confidence, a missed shot in transition with no one to rebound will result in a time-out and a shouting match. Young players can learn a lot about playing hard and the right way with these types of coaches, but can go on very long confidence slumps. Mike Dunlop, Brendan Joyce and similar coaches loosely fit this mould. The submissive coach will let things go unchecked. Shots in transition early that miss will result in no consequences unless the team has a 1-5 win loss record and a public scapegoat is needed. When players are finally shown tape of how lazy they are around on ball screens, they won't need to make adjustments as they know the submissive coach will still give them time anyway and not say much in practice. Young players quickly lose respect and confidence in this type of coach. The co-operative coach is in the middle ground. He has the respect of the players and doesn't feel the need to punish players too much to improve their game, while the players get confidence from the coach as they know he/she is working hard to improve their game.

Phil is a submissive coach. He followed on from an era where Mike Dunlap left a good nucleus of well drilled talent reaching their peak. Brett Maher, John Rillie, Martin Cattalini and co was taught how to play the game at the highest level by Dunlap. Kevin Brooks and Darnell Mee were bought in not long after they were involved in the greatest NBA playoff upset of all time. Rupert Sapwell and Scott Ninnis both learnt their trade under Brian G at the Magic. The team was full of veterans at their peak and there was no need for Phil to call time-outs to work out how to beat a trap with less than ten seconds on the clock as teams rarely came within ten points of the 36ers. Darnell Mee didn't need to be shown how to defend a pick and roll, as he takes pride every time he hits the court and Paul Rees already had it drilled into him to show and recover. Phil was exactly the right type of coach for the right type of players at the time because this team didn't need to be over-coached. Plus Dave Claxton had Leon Trimingham and Jeff Brown to start the season with at short notice; if he had a proper pre-season plus Darnell Mee and Kevin Brooks I'm sure he would have done better than 7th.

But then as time went on Phil was expected to start developing some players, while also working with players who didn't have as complete games as the players he coached previously. Oscar, Jacob and Illman were signed to the team. Did he ever do individual sessions with these players? Did he delegate to other coaches to do individuals? Did he run thru training tape and try to work on what they needed to take their game to the next level? Why not ask some of the guys themselves, I'm sure you will get a clear answer.

And this is where the problem for the club's future comes in. See when Oscar and Jacob signed Phil was coming off some very good years with veterans and had no public complaints against him. Now every junior who even thinks of signing with Adelaide hears the stories of how Adelaide trainings are nothing more than scrimmages, about how Phil will play you out of position. How he won't hold his favourite players accountable to defensive errors or lack of effort while they get dragged for a missed shot. How one day you can wake up after getting a DNP with no warning and see Phil indicating in the paper that the team's recent bad form may have something to do with you instead of his lack of coaching. Damn half these players will be lucky to get a call from Phil himself to ask them to come to play, or if they do, the only guarantee will be a spot in the 13 with a salary lower than the league minimum for a player in the ten! I can bet money that no way will Jacob Holmes, Oscar Forman, Joe Ingles, and Brad Newley etc will come back while Phil is in town, and will also bet good money on Brad Hill walking as well. Can people also get the idea out of their head that Darnell Mee wants to finish his career in Adelaide, because I can guarantee it will never happen while Phil is in town. Players aren't signing elsewhere due to money, they are signing elsewhere as they don't want to play for Phil.

From 2002 something else happened. Brian moved to Sydney and gained the perimeter one on one players he lacked in the past. He learnt from his mistakes and realised the hold on to the ball to reduce turnovers and pound it in the post game wasn't working in this league as his teams were getting the court spread on him defensively, with 1 on 1 players forcing umpires to call fouls. The court will open up and teams were simply out-scoring him. Credit to Brian, instead of calling his critics ignorant, he admitted to his fallibilities as a coach and went about improving himself. Meanwhile the rest of the league copied suit and team scoring averages went up a fair bit (the highest ppg in the league in 1998 was 99ppg; league average was in the low 90s). Now all teams can score 110 points on any given night, where as during the 36ers championship years it was only Adelaide who were really any chance to do so. Phil has failed to recognise this change in the league, and is still coaching like it is 1998.

So in response to the thought that Smyth could be sacked and no one else better picked up I suggest that Smyth is the worst type of coach for the 36ers current position anyway. A co-operative coach or an authoritarian, or anyone who puts in any damn effort would be good in order to build the program up from scratch again. There are plenty of options around in the likes of Richard Hill, Scott Ninnis, Dave Ingham, etc. Andy Simons maybe?

Reply #101634 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

jimmy, do you believe that smyth works individually with young talent to improve them? or that, under his coaching reign, he or his staff should ?

why isn't our 'greatest ever point guard' working one-on-one with our current young talent ?

Reply #101637 | Report this post


Fiji  
Years ago

Oh Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, get your facts right.

1. Dunlap - cut an ageing Smyth to give a kid called Maher a contract and court time. Brought Cattalini and Brunson to the Club, refused to pay ageing players continually increasing contracts just because they "had been" past stars. But yes, did struggle in other areas.

2. Smyth - has like it or not cost the 36ers some of the best junior recruits the league has seen in years + oscar and jacob. Why? Simple, he is not seen as a developmental coach rightly or wrongly.

So we finish up with the "left over" recruits that no one else wants. This is not a one year occurance its been for the last 3+ years. BTW he also overspent in signing Brett, Cat and Rogers to "no cut deals" the year before the salary cap changes, and we have never recovered.

And this year.......well it speaks for itself.

3. Brett - a fantastic player and IMO opinion our best of all time (with apologies to MD). BUT, he is not an out and out point guard he is a more a SG, and is being put through the mill work wise playing a role he should only play spasmodically.

End result is that his time, is very very unfortunately running out, and its time for reduced court time (to better manage him physically) and correspondingly a reduced contract.

The latter will also help allow us to recruit better, assuming a different coach.

Bottom line for me of the names put forward..........Stacker.

However, whilst I had personally never considered it, I really liked the idea of another posters suggestion in a different thread of Jan Stirling.

Not a possibility in the next few years but would love to see her given a chance.

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KOBE  
Years ago

A third of the salary cap...Brett Maher is not getting paid $250,000. Jimmy the snitch...what right do you have to call anyone on this forum a prick? Your name isnt exactly a clear indicator of who you are either (Before you pipe up, i choose not to put my full name on the forum either....makes me prick? So be it my prerogative).

We are better WITH Brett Maher. History is one thing he has, but he simply contributes too positively to consider any change of the guard. Pay rise? Perhaps not at this stage, but he's turning in to a savvy veteran, too risky to lose him to another team over a mass reduction in his pay. I have 3 amazing memories of Smyth's tenure here, but he is starting to reak of a toxic problem for the club with his inability to lift the team's intensity. Time to go. Perhaps see Breheny could do with sole responsibilty?

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Statman  
Years ago

Care to reveal your source on that coaching move Tony B?

I heard the same whisper not long ago so your post adds a bit of weight to it

Reply #101660 | Report this post


Swervin' Mervin'  
Years ago

Can Steve Breheny talk???

Reply #101664 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

My bad Jimmy. I agree, there are some similarities between Mark Williams' and Phil's coaching - neither of them call time outs!

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lockstock  
Years ago

Double Clutch, stand up and take a bow. That is quite possibly the most informative post I have ever read on this site.

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Tony Blair  
Years ago

Statman no but I trust my source.

Reply #101687 | Report this post


Statman  
Years ago

Nice Tony, while the person who mentioned it to me had had a few beers, I know his connections and would think that it is a distinct possibility.

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Ken Richardson  
Years ago

Retirement on the GC - sounds good!

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thomo  
Years ago

cal bruton would be a good option, and yes ive been a phil fan no denying it but a changes is as good as holiday and this team needs a holiday

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Kent Brockman  
Years ago

I have heard that KB is doing some one on one stuff with a few of the academy players.

Last time i saw a sixers coach doing that was with Pero circa 1996.

Hopefully if Phil stays KB will be the one looking after the youngins and giving us a chance of picker up some younger recruitments going forward.

A interesting point i would like to make, has anyone ever spoken to someone who has been around the game for more than 30 years and asked their opinion of Phil?

Seems that the common response for the oldies is that Phil is not well respected or liked by the wider basketball community.

Was BA's decision to cut Phil as oz coach now warranted as they could see that he has little skills in developing players which is why Goorj was chosen?

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Tony Blair  
Years ago

'Seems that the common response for the oldies is that Phil is not well respected or liked by the wider basketball community.'

Heard that from more than one source and from a few ex players

Reply #101755 | Report this post




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