Add in ninth for the 1998 world champs for men.

Big difference between the men and the women, is that the US never send their best U/23 side to international comps. Most of them are already playing NBA.

In 97 when Australia won that Gold, the US could have sent Garnett, Ray Allen, Iverson, Kobe, Camby, Abdur- Rahim to name a few. I don't think juniour results in the mens comps accurately reflect the standard of the sport in that country.

In more recent times you would have Dwight Howard, LeBron, Wade, Jermaine O'Neal.

IMO coaching in this country is geared largely at a player's teenage years. In the US and other European countries, they train usually once a day, shoot on top of that, and most importantly, they work absolutely flat out on theri game in the offseason. Add to that the general standard of players they train/play against in those nations (in terms of depth) and you have a much more condusive learning environment.
How many Aussies can we say do that?

Lockstock we must be doing something right thought with the women.

how come our women are in the top four consistently over the last 10 years yet the men languish in 10th spot

in our national leagues we are getting young women through all the time Erin Phillips, for example who can take the league by storm it seems in the WNBL the youngsters are encouraged and nutured by our coaching staff but in the men, apart from BG who gives kids a go we have players like Copeland at 41 starting and kids like Hill getting 5 mins.

With players like Rose, Copeland, McDonald in the league still are we harming our youth in the NBL? Are we as a league becoming an old age playground?

agreed lockstock many do spend so much time improving there game but how come in Australia where the majority of our women hold down full time jobs yet our men are full time athletes are our women are far better than our men.

How come our women can come through the same junior system and excel where our men fail?

How do we correct the problem - if we can get it so right with the women how come we can not produce a better men's international team?

I know it's an old excuse, but we are a tiny country compared to most basketball powerhouses, and we simply do not have the population to draw from, especially when there is stiff competition from other sports for our bigger guys. In Europe, if you are too tall for football, you play basketball.

Until kids here begin to choose basketball over footy, rugby etc we will always be hitting above our weight.

It's a good point Tony. One thing a failed to mention is I think we had a rare generation of players with Gaze, Heal, Bradtke and Co who were all tough as nails and performed at big time levels in international competition. I can't see the same toughness in the current Aus lineup. Maybe we are going through the same thing at the moment with the women.
I agree totally doc. Population is a big advantage for many countries.
Tony, the only answer I can give to your question is women don't (really) have Australian rules as an attractive alternative, same with cricket and to a lesser extent soccer. I know these sports are still available to them, but they are certainly not as popular amongst women as they are men. But then there is netball, which has one of the highest participation rate in the country (if not The highest), so I can't explain that either.
And finally, I think with Neilson, Anderson, Schensch and Saville we may well have had that international toughness that might have gotten us over the line recently. Who knows, but you made some good points indeed

And yet Goorjian was considered a lock when the last coaching appointments were made, yet there was a huge song and dance about Stirlo getting another gig.

She is a proven performer at both domestic and international level, and should be offered the job unconditionally for as long as she wants it, or until results start to slip off.

Just looking at the women working for a living against the men being professional. Does this make them more hungry? In golf, players are thrown in the deep end and have to fight on the international stage, but in tennis there is more help getting started. Similar results, Australia has more men in the top 100 in golf than tennis.

Participation level and profile has nothing to do with sport...
You have got to be kidding me

Participation level and profile has nothing to do with success...
You have got to be kidding me

Suggest that the difference is an attitude of "what's good enough". Boomers V Greece at W.C. showed that the capacity is there (for all but say a minute) but not the consistency. It has to be demanded of all involved from BA through to the coach and players. The demand to consitently perform to up to level x should be the fundamental criterum that an each individual places on themself. It easily becomes contagious when done this way.
The opals present like a TEAM. One that is hungry to be better than they were last week, month, year.

The Boomers present like they hope to get over the line if someone steps up - Individual efforts. Like they've done enough once they've made the side.

Sorry - I obviously went to the same school as Brad. I didnt word that very well.

What I mean is that you can be World Champions but have no profile for your sport. Like the Mens Netball team, they are World Champs and no one knows they exist. The opposite gender inequality we have in basketball.

Success is dependant on your definition of the word. Does it mean participation level, $ raised through ticket sales, $ raised through sponsorship etc etc

Being World Champion guarantees none of these things. It may help, but certainly does not guarantee anything.

Don't overlook how many of the Opals have international experience and have played or are still playing in the WNBA and/or in European Leagues.
If you check out the Basketball Australia Site, you will find out that many of them are also professional players.
For example:
Tully Bevilaqua - WNBA since 2000,
Kristi Harrower - WNBA since 2001, Germany 2001, & has played in France since 2002.
Lauren Jackson - WNBA since 01,
Erin Phillips - WNBA since 05,
Emma Randall - Played in Russian Cup winning team 05/06 season,
Belinda Snell - WNBA since 05,
Penny Taylor - WNBA since 01 and also played in Italy in 02,
Laura Summerton - WNBA from 05 and has signed to play in Italy 06,
Jenny Whittle - played in Spain in 03.
All this is as well as playing for the Opals for the past few years for many of them.

yes Dana I do not overlook that fact but even so the money except for Jackson would not even be in the league of the NBA

Jackson has come back as many of the others and played in the WNBL can you see Bogut playing in the NBL in the off season?

But even so many of those players, held down full time jobs, and played and trained and made the top of their league WNBL and to the international stage.

how many in the WNBL are full time athletes? how many in the NBL are?

We have produced coaches on both sides of the spectrum with junior coaches. McLeod & Argsei have been fansatic junior coaches at international mens level, they have received good results with the teams they have had.

Taking on board that the US probably don't send their best U22 team away what about the success we've had with the Emus etc against European teams.

Yet our women have gone on to be no lower than third since 1998 they were fourth in Seoul in 1988
they missed qualifying in 1992 for barcelona, but they bounced back with a bronze in 1996

The Boomers missed qualifying for Athens and rather than take that as a prod to improve they have gone backwards.

I'd like someone to explain why or where our men's program is going wrong?

Maybe it's the same old story about women V men athletes in many sports, not just Basketball?
Women netball players get paid diddly squat for playing, as lockstock mentions, the participation rate of netball in the country is huge. Participation doesn't seem to mean as much as Pay TV rights. AFL, Soccer, Rugby, etc. pay heaps to their players, due in no small part to TV revenue. Netball is on the ABC so there wouldn't be much money in that for the players.
It's alot like that in the workplaces & business all over. Women need to be twice as good to be lucky to get paid half as much.
(And that's my comment for women's rights for today!! *wink*)