And that was a surprise!!

Bill Gates,

Interesting that you chose to call the Limestone Coasters an ' allstar team '

From the age group i was associated with on the weekend, it was clear to me and all others that sturt picked their very own allstar team that won the competition to the detrement of the second sturt team which finished out of the top 8.

Both of the sturt teams are sitting 1 and 2 in division 2 at the moment , and played off in the division 2 final over summer, so why did the club find it necessary to pick the best 8 players from the two teams and make an ' allstar ' team . Even the parents were overheard questioning the smarts behind that move. The second team then went on to loose games to teams that they would normally beat by 20 points. Of course they played off in the final , which they won ( never in doubt ) but all that showed everyone else was that all they're interested in is pounding the opposition.

Has worked wonders for our team though as its showed the guys that the mighty sturt are beatable and that their win at all costs attitude will be their undoing.

#80852, maybe Sturt are tired of playing against other Sturt teams in grand finals so this was their way of giving other clubs a chance. How kind of them!!

anon #80852,

The Reserve State Club Championships is meant to be a CLUB Championship. The Limestone Coasters are a group of country clubs putting together an allstar team that plays in NO other competitions throughout the year. What is to stop SASI or SA Country from putting in a team. If metro clubs did the same thing, which under the current rules put in place by the junior executive they can, what sort of controversry would we come up with. Can you imagine if next year Sturt and Forestville put in a combined City South team that consisted of Sturt and Forestville players that were not in the best team. And then both teams qualified for Nationals. this puts the very itegrity of the tournament under disrepute. Especially watching the U/12 girls Reserve final with the Coasters full court pressing West while being 50 - 0 up.

And how can a metro club put in an "allstar team"? That u/14 boys team train together and could easily play div 2 by themselves and destroy everybody each week by 40+. But Sturt chooses to give more players opportunity to compete a closer games, and then go out to win the only tournament in this state that counts. What do you think State Champs is about??? Go and sit around your camp fire and sing kombahya!

But I guess that beating our third team really gives your kids a sence of accomplishment then you really do not understand what the sport is about. Our kids got the chance to step up and increase their responsibility over this weekend and will be better of for the experience. Now knowing what skills and concepts they need to improve on over the remainder of the season. How will this bring about the demise of the club???

It is exactly your attitude of what will happen in the future, which implies, Sturt will not improve and will infact fall back to the pack, rather than your club imporving which shows the true nature of the sport. Clubs like yours would rather bring the sport back down to the lowest common denominator, pushing to not allow kids to play at their true level,to try and styme their development, rather than making your club better.

While Sturt has proven that they are willing to try and match it with every club in Australia, including Nunawading and Dandenong on even ground. And that we can actually beat them even with all the advantages they have. You must be kidding yourslef if yo think that the very philosophies that have lead to the best U/14 results in the country over the last 3 years will lead to Sturt's demise and your clubs rise to State Champion club due to some rediculous notion of an abstact cyclical effect.

"Even the parents were overheard questioning the smarts behind that move"

Well, now that the "experts" have questioned the move.....
Sturt parents just think they know it all!

Teams are nominated with player names.

It is a junior comp ruling that players moving between teams in the same grade must notify BSA.

This would not apply to state champs as the bylaws are not in force for the tournament.
I will stand corrected on this.

You raise a good question.

The fact that as a system of seeding goes on to rank teams in the BSA junior comp, I would naturally think that clubs must not (change personel) with those rankings after the seeding process.

This is really an issue for junior comittee to raise.

The whole business of a club having two teams in a grade means there can be manipulation of the spirit of the competitions.
Whilst clubs do what is best for themselves , I cant see how it can benefit the state championships at all.
I have NO problem with the sturt boys teams changing there teams , really, but I dont think that they should carry the 1 and 2 rankings with them, if they have changed the teams.

Anon # 80860

Firstly, I have never seen or heard it written that the State Championships are a CLUB tournament until your post. I thought in Metro Adelaide it called a DISTRICT competition. Isn't that what Limestone Coast is , a DISTRICT team, representing the SE Districts of S.A. ( Millicent, Mt. Gambier etc. ) just as Sturt represent the Sturt District and Centrals the Northern District and Southern Tigers the Southern District. Sorry that arguement doesnt cut it for me.


What is the State Champs all about ? I would have thought it had something to do inviting Country Associations to test their own ability and standard against the stronger metro teams and visa versa. Playing 5 or six games over a short period of time certainly tests ones ability , no doubt. ( by the way Kombahya is a little outdated....we prefer Dont worry , be happy )

Finally, i was no way intending to critisise the Sturt programme. I actually admire what they have achieved over recent years and believe that our club is instituting a similar programme. Our team has this mentality that whenever they play Sturt that they're on a hiding to nothing. This weekend has shown our team that Sturt are beatable ....isnt that what you Sturt people always say when people complain about the way Sturt go about their business...." Our aim is to improve the standard of basketball for all teams "

I'd suggest that you dont be so defensive when someone posts a comment or 2 about Sturt. Sure they are the dominant force at present and congadulate them for that, but just 'cos things didnt go exactly your way in the girls comp, pay a little credit were it may be due.

Should the coasters be in the Div 1 comp with Whyalla, or did Whyalla win the country champs to qualify?

...in the know??

I would have thought it had something to do inviting Country Associations to test their own ability

Here's where I think you defeat your own argument. As far as I'm aware (and I'm metro so I am not sure) Millicent is a country association. So is Mt Gambier. "Limestone" is not. They play at the country championships as Millicent and Mt Gambier, not as Limestone.
I compare it to Sturt and Forestville putting in a combo-team as "City South".

And from memory I think the trophy says "Club" somewhere in the title! (tho I haven't seen it in a while....North and Sturt people would know).

First of all, heaven forbid, I am no way associated with Sturt. However congratulations to both Sturt and the Limestone Coasters on their overall achievements on the weekend.

The debate on the participation of the limestone coasters or moving players between teams should not detract from their results or be offered as excuses. Everyone knows the rules - so be it. If you don't like the rules try to change them but don't criticise the success of the teams who did nothing wrong from a rules viewpoint.

80912
Agreed. they did desreve it.

The debate is more about the rules isn't it?

I think its better to have the country teams, why cant we have more, they're certainly good enough .

allowed to cross feed in the same div age to match teams to get the advantage and win, especially if it's against BSA bylaws

It's against the by-laws for the "normal" competition ala winter season. A seperate team list is filled out for the State Champs, and as long as the players fullfill the criteria such as not playing div 1 in the last "x" rounds they can put in any team they wish.

I would not be a happy camper so to speak.

Who cares? If you don't like it, move somewhere else. These players are given the oppurtunity to play div 2 whilst in the "third" club team at some of these clubs (generally Sturt, Forestville, North and Norwood). An oppurtunity that a club could forego to avoid you whinging at not being in the "best" div 2 team. I'd appreciate my club giving the oppurtunity to 16-18 players to play div 2 instead of 8-9, even if it meant I didn't get to win at State Champs. If BSA only let one team in per club, then you wouldn't get to play at all.

Does anyone know the ruling on this one. Can you or can't you cross feed in the same DIV age group?

You obviously can. The team lists were provided, and cleared. So long as they haven't played any div 1 games recently (as above). At least one club played a player who played div 1 recently - perhaps you should be more up in arms about that (prob an honest mistake).

basically sacrificing the other team to do that is not good

A club can only score points on ONE team (I believe this team must be nominated before-hand?). Thus the 2nd team scores ZERO points for State Champs. If the club was to truly "sacrifice" this team, they would simply not nominate them. Instead they gave the players the chance to play and develop against better players, and give some of these players who would've been deep reserves on their normal team the chance to play more minutes and a greater role. I'd say perhaps that the club put more thought into this than you did. But hey, these kids didn't win right......

"Funny that noone has complained about Limestone Coast while they were getting pole axed at every tournament"

Actually, I've heard complaints about Limestone EVERY year, whether they've been pole-axed or not. Haven't they only been around three years or so (at State Champs anyway). And they were always competitive in grades as far as I can remember - a 12 boys team made semi's in State one year.

Whether it's "legit" or not isn't my point, but what is is that the complaints about them aren't new because they are now "good".

No but they took the seeding, in this case ranked 2 for the comp, that they didnt deserve

that they didn't deserve

clearly they did if they finished 2nd. They played their games with 5 players as well!

Don't worry about it, generally at about 14's level the double blue recruitment machine kick's in and the dominate country players will be recruited by Sturt anyway.

No but they took the seeding

I can see your point with regards to seedings. However, how is it fixed? Surely it's not up to a club (in this case Sturt) to drop their own seedings? And to what?
You might have thought that the "lower" tier of players from the 1st and 2nd teams might have still come.......where? A random guess could be just as problematic.
This still has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the other Sturt teams win.
And to the anon above, they didn't finish 2nd at State Champs. Well down in the pack I think.

The Limestone coast situation has been bought up this year prior to the tournament as well as last year prior to the tournament. But the junior executive, in their infinite wisdom, have been reluctant to do anything about an anomoly in the rules becasue they are advised that it should be a participation level tournament. Even though it is the State Championships, even though it is used as qualification and seeding for the June Classics and even though it is a qualification tournament for the U/14 Nationals. But that is what you get when the current members of the junior executive only allow who they want to be nominated for vacant positions and ask current members to stay on the committee so that people they don't like do not get voted on! And then the person who stays on the committee doesn't turn up for 8 months and resigns. The junior executive are what is wrong with the sport at the junior level in this State and I for one will be glad when they are gone. We can thank our lucky stars that a new plan will be put forward for the futute of the sport that will hopefully not include the people who are currently in positions who have run the sport into the ground.

And back on topic - well done Sturt!

Should be a top weekend of basketball this weekend too!

An anon saw changes on a scoresheet!! Take the trophies back off 'em!!

Anon,

You say that next week is the one that really matters. It might for some qualifications for classics and nationals but what would I like to win - state champs or grand final at end of winter season? Don't know - what is more prestigious? Getting it right on one weekend or performing consistently over a whole season?

What do you think?

anon,

Team lists were approved by BSA but the score sheets had already been printed. No rules were broken. End of story! Too many sour grapes for my liking.

This weekend another combined country team will play the U14 Div.1. Comp They represent Murray Bridge, Victor Harbor and Adelaide Hills. They will go close to the final. (They call them Eastern Mavericks) Now lets bitch about them.

Confused,

So they must not have had their best DIV 2 side playing together in the winter comp is that what your saying?

That is exactly what I am saying. As far as I am aware, there is a predominantly bottom-age team (to prepare for next year in div 1) and a predominantly top-age team.

So am I to undertstand that the two teams that played in the State Champs will now finish the winter season as they played in the State champs. They've now found their best team in DIV 2??

Nope, and just goes to prove that you don't understand it at all. They put their best team in at State Champs, and try to win it. They are not as concerned with winning the winter season - especially the bottom-age team which is being "groomed" for a division 1 team next year.

I'm entitled as you are to be comfortable with "voicing an opinion its not whinging"

You yourself said that you would be "an unhappy camper" if you weren't in the top side - that to me implies you are whinging. If you were "concerned" or something similar, I'd assume that meant you'd go to the correct people at the club and be educated on why these decisions are made. Unhappy campers don't do that, they come on here and whinge anonymously.

Did the club ask the players?


I'm sure 12 year olds have a better understanding of what is going on rather than their div 1 coach and coaching director.....

So you feel that taking two teams that are playing realy well in the winter season together, make one stonger for the State Champs the other weaker is OK?


Absolutely. The aim of State Champs is to win. The aim of the summer/winter season is to develop. If one "super team" was made for the winter season, and they destroyed everyone, would that benefit either the Sturt boys or the teams that got crunched? Probably not. And then, this neglected (in your eyes) second team may struggle every week. AND on top of that, next years div 1 coach won't have had a large number of his squad together for a year to develop as a group. And, as mentioned above, Limestone proved to be very good, and could of beaten one or both of those teams, in which case Sturt wouldn't have gotten the 5 points.

Brian,

The State Club Championships is not about giving exemptions to one group of kids and not others. If BSA do not allow all members equal opportunity regardless of situation then they could be perceived a bias which might cost somebodies job. I am quite sure that under the current rules next year we will see a number of 'allstar' teams. If this is the case, the competition will become more lop sided and more 50 - 0 games will be seen, and not just in finals.

Thanks for a very interesting insight into how the Sturt club run their programmes in regards to their overall ambitions for their higher grade teams....quite illuminating actually

Everyone wants to bitch about the Limestone Coasters, everyone wants to blame basketball SA.
Have some sad news for you all.
SA Country approached the CLUBS at a JCM and asked if they could enter teams as you have said "alstar teams" the justification was the number of country players at Metro clubs, which weakens the country teams.
THE VOTE WAS ONE AGAINST THE REST OF THE CLUBS SUPPORTED IT
Go back and sook at your clubs, thats the only way it will change

I didn't state my real name as I am not complaining, just explaining why a decision may have been made that you are questioning.

"If it was my team that you took the players away from so you have the advantage, basically sacrificing the other team to do that is not good. I would not be a happy camper so to speak."

Can you read anywhere in the above para were I siad I was not happy that I did not get in the number
1 team. Hmmm.

Maybe not that you were unhappy, just that you WOULD be if you were in the second team ie the team players were taken away from. Much the muchness for mine.

Noticed "Confused" that you didn't continue to question the reasoning behind the decision - does that mean you now recognise it may be valid?

Could someone please explain the reason wby there is a Reserves competition in the first place, when teams from Div 2 arent vying for Classics spots or other top division spots in Melbourne? What is the reasoning behind it?

Cause they are not good enough. That why they be div two.

So that players who are not quite ready for div 1 but may be in the near future are able to learn and deal with a State Championships tournament. Tshi gives bottom age players a chance to experience the tournament and create a habit of playing on this weekend.

Actually yes. But not at the expence of equal opportunity and intergrity of the competition. Whyh not have a couple of SA clubs put in an "allstar" team in U/14 Nationals each year and win the Club Championships.

Sturt overall Reserves Champion....wow.... will be remembered for a long short time....Limestone Allstars played by Sturts rules.... :-)well done

But if they chose to follow the rules and put in an 'allstar' team each year, they could win every year.

Who cares if Sturt moved players between their two div 2 teams. They are entitled to do that and if it creates a much stronger team so be it. When, not if, we ever beat them I would want to do it against their best team and not some compromised team to even up the comp. Could you imagine the outcry then; you wouldn't have beaten us if we had our "best team". We want to play the best and beat the best!

North moved a player over into their second team in U16 Girls as well. Looks like sour grapes that people are complaining about Sturt and not North.