Anon, I agree with you. The problem is, the coaches' goal is to develop players for the national level.

They are only interested in those players that can and are willing to cope with this level of activity.

Moreover, they couldn't care less about Y12 results. Most of them wouldn't even give a thought to the fact that the most likely outcome of this silly training regime is that the options of a 17 year old are ruined because of low TER scores. Most of these players won't make the national level anyway.

School is always available, plenty of pathways for students over 17 to get their SACE and a decent TER.

Chances to make it to an elite level in sport are once in a lifetime. Young kids need to make a choice, if they go hard and focus with sport, they'll find out how good they can be. If they give up, may spend rest of their life wondering what might have been.

End of the day, it's up to the players and their parents. Don't blame the coaches or the clubs.

If the players and families are so worried about yaer 12 scores thern athey have 2 choices.

1/ Cut back on thier basketball activities.

2/ Do year 12 over 2 years.

If players are looking to compete at a National level then they need to do the work. If not some kid from some place else will get their spot.

Yes the system is tough. But the system is looking to weed out those players who cannot handle the workload.

Please.....
If they do not wish to do it, or cannot do it for whatever reason - then don't do it. Give up some of the basketball, whether it be juniors, seniors, SASI or state. If they wish to compete at that level, then they have to do the work - don't whinge about it.

I'm sure someone IS willing to put in the work.

10 sessions a week is tough on anyone's body

and their brain when it comes to yr 12

remind me again what we mean by elite sport...... how many of our U18 State going on to make a living from basketball... chance are ensuring they dont bomb in yr 12 is more likely going to better for them long term.....

surely it's all about balance

and also about training more efficiently and smarter as opposed to harder and longer

btw loads of interesting and scary research out their about over use injuries in youth playing sport these days, some report showing a large increase in injuries that aren't normal in kids these young

Let's get real, the kids also have to shoulder responsibility AND their parents, for many things.

How many players injure or hurt themselves and don't even ice properly or even at all, walk around barefoot or in thongs after rolling ankles, don't do their rehab exercises regularly or properly, stretch or warm up in a diligent way or tell their coach or parent that they are hurt or injured in some way??

How many parents shrug off little Johnny's or Mary's aches and pains as "just playing sport", don't get their child to good sports injury people, supervise their kids rehab or follow up all sorts of other issues related to their child's sport in basketball or school??

Answer : A LOT from my experience! :-(

Life is about choices though, and maybe the players are "burning out" as THEY want to see how far THEY can go in the sport, NOT neccessarily to earn a living from it. Ask them maybe what THEIR goals and dreams are and help them try and achieve them. It may be to play State, or just be at a State training squad, get better for their club age group team or later the ABA, NBL or heaven forbid, even the NBA!

Communication is the key, sensible and well worked out scenarios such as Glenn highlighted a must, but above all do NOT blame others for what is always a personal choice .... to be or not to be.....
that is the question.

Glenn,

Why would you be pushing a junior player who has cronic fatigue into player senior basketball?

Are you that self interested that you would put somebodies wellbeing at jepordy?

Why not let her have a year of only doing limited sport so that they can regain full fitness and then have them come back into your senior program?

It is coaches who make these types of decisions that push kids out of the sport. As well as messing up their study commitments.

Time to tkae a step back and look at yourself buddy.

Glenn,

1/ re read the post. I never said she was a recruit. Even though she actually she was a Southern junior, but you havn't been around long enough to know that have you!

Why not let her just make her junior commitments? Which would be less stress on her body?

And actually I was there to see you have a sook at a committee member from your club about this very issue. And your attitude shows exactly where your priorities lie. And I saw with my own eye's that it is not with the club nor the individual.

Kepp digging, maybe I know more than you think!

I agree partly with aggressive re it is a players choice BUT for juniors there must be a balance of sport and education. If my child came to me and said, "I've made up my mind - I'm going to be a pro basketballer and I need to spend more time on basketball" I would say fine but there are some ground rules. The most important being also a commitment to education. As with all things in life - balance is important.

Your really need to do a "where are they Now" - those Juniors who were so great in Under 14,16,18. Acheived, even went through the SASI Scheme, made state lower age groups, had big dreams - but never went on - Why? Could it be that it all got too much, and why does are Under 21 Girls fade away?

I would rather my kids get burnt out by playing basketball at a descent level than burnt out playing computer games, eating, drugs and getting fat as alot of other kids do.

Its all about choice and balance. I do think that clubs that bring U18 STATE/SASI players (and there would not be many, if any) into their senior programs are making a mistake. Let them finnish SASI, State and Junior commitments before they get into the ABL - there is plenty of time for that.

i agree with this im one of those players that burnt themselves out by the age of 18, its stupid the amount of training is forced on us to play at the highest level, im not sure about the rest but with so much training my quality of basketball went down because season after season i had a constant injury. i think the coached need to let up and let the kids rest.

communication is a two-way street.

can't expect them to be mind readers

May I ask which club you played for and if you're male or female?

who r u talking to?

The person who said "im one of those players that burnt themselves out by the age of 18", which club and male or female?

if ur takling about anon(#77040) im a male from woodville, but im not bagging woodville they were good to me while i was there.

Its not only parents and players that can be stupid over injuries.
Over the years, I've seen numerous coaches encouraging their best junior players to play with rolled ankles, knee injuries, concussion (..."The team needs you; we might just win the grand final...")

i am 1 of those state/sasi/club kids at the present time. its true we dont speak up wen there are little injuries, but that is only from fear of letting the coach or others down. i have 9 trainings a week plus 2 games and always look tired, but wen it comes down to it, the kids that quit didnt really have their heart in it in the first place. i kno from experience that if u really concentrate on your schooling and basketball, its a breeze. a tip: dont plan your week, if u do and something goes out of plan u tend to lose it a bit and thats wen u begin 2 think its too hard. just let it happen and concentrate on wat u have 2 do, not wat u MITE do or wat the future MITE bring.

Nobody is denigning that education is important.
Kids today if they apply themselves can have it all, but it does take inmense self discipline and time management skills.
If these 2 things are lacking then the choice is simple,put the dream on hold and do the education.
And truthfully if the 2 skills are lacking the dream aint going to come true anyway.

Back to burnout.

All kids that do State/SASI/District(/school) are mentally and physically exhausted at the moment. They are physically sore from too many hard trainings with too little time to recover. They are mentally sore from the stress they are put under. They train hard because it is competitive out there. They are under stress because it is competitive out there. And that's got nothing to do with their time management skills/school work.

IMO the elite level program doesn't improve the fitness, skill levels or performance of these youngsters. It causes fatigue and burnout.
The schedule reflects an immature irrealistic and irresponsible attitude towards coaching of adolescents.

Then doen't do it and leave it to the people who are capable.

Angela Marino got a TER of 99 and got into Law at Adelaide doing ABA/SASI/State and managed to do quite well at the Olympics

No one makes them do all the training. If they are not capable of handling the workload, give something up.
Quite easy really.

Doesn't work that way though. These kids run themselves into the ground in their ambition to achieve.

Btw, re Angela Marino: it would be interesting to see if country kids suffer less from burnout because they have more time to recover

Between now and U16 and U18 Nationals in July, many players will get worse unless well looked after by their parents, coaches and get injuries properly treated. Then if it's too hard, drop it.

anon 77420 -

"it would be interesting to see if country kids suffer less from burnout because they have more time to recover"

More time to recover? Between their ITC training and local competition basketball?

Darren Ng and Marcus Ng also managed to do quite well at school while training with SASI, and playing junior and senior ball.

Neither of them played during yr 12. Probably a smart move.

Angela spent Yr 11 and 12 in Adelaide at boarding school and would have had as much if not less recovery time.

Mathew Liptak from the Adelaide Crows did his medical degree as well as incorporating his AFL commitments. It can be done, it's just a mater of having developing your time management and how much is done

to #77080,

"the kids that quit didnt really have their heart in it in the first place"

it is a very hard decision for the kids to cut their basketball back for the sake of their school.

some people are academically gifted and some people arent as gifted and have to work harder to get their grades.

saying they dont have their heart in it is a bit harsh!

maybe they just have their priorities right!

Actually Joe SASI is a the lower step to the AIS. It is the feeder program. Poeple do not make the AIS without being involved in SASI.

I'm sure that it has been said before, but:

Joe M is the new Yogee!

Joe M, you do not have a clue, mate so give it a rest, please!

SASI has many different types of programs. Basketball (like soccer) at SASI is an underpinning or feeder program. That is it underpins higher level programs such as the AIS Basketball Program. Other sports at SASI are not underpinning programs, but high level elite programs for older athletes who are world class. An example is Diving, which I think is part of Aerial Sports. There is no National Diving League! In fact most SASI programs are like this. Basketball and soccer are exceptions, because there are already high level programs and competitions in place. The need in these sports is for feeder programs.

Get a clue before you start running off your mouth! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing for some people.

Actually Joe. The obviously doen't know much about the AIS or SASI.

The AIS took players like Lucas Walker when he was 18, and Wade Halliwell when he was 20.

For guys like Darren Ng, Brad Gerlach, Matt Sutton etc I am sure that they would not be in the position that they are now without SASI.

Brad Hill, David Florence Ryan Kersten, Josh Wood and Oscar Foreman all went to the Ais after they turned 17.

Your ignorance must be bliss.

Joe M for president! Of SASI!

"SAIS 5 night a week" who does sasi 5 time per week?

Also players in ABL squads and SASI is not the norm. I would struggle to think of an example (on the boys side) of an abl doing SASI and ABL at the same time.

"SAIS 5 night a week" who does sasi 5 time per week?

Also players in ABL squads and SASI is not the norm. I would struggle to think of an example (on the boys side) of an abl doing SASI and ABL at the same time.

We are talking about 80 kids from 16's and 18's across Adelaide.
Not many overall considering the numbers playing div 1. Of which maybe 1 or 2 will make it to the Ais,
so the answer for the most of you will be simple, and burnout is only happening to a selective few.
Choices choices choices------the mainstay of life.

i think u's r all missing the point the amount of basketball played every week by kids in programs like sasi takes its toll on the body, after going through all of this i think its better if the kid plays less basketball at the age of 16, 17 so both the body and the mind arent burnt out by the age of 18.

So we are only talking about 40 kids max that are involved in sasi at under 18 level.(16 to 17yr olds)
So the percentage of kids training at an elite level is getting smaller.......which means that if you make a choice to cease training at the elite level the pool gets even smaller for players to continue UP to the next stage.
Step out to study you may never go any higher then where you are now and if you are happy with your choice than so be it.
If forced out whether for study reasons or burnout or injuries there will always be an element of doubt follow you for the rest of your life of WHAT IF.
And anyone with a competetive nature is always going to give their all if they want the dream enough.
(The pool of talent is so small compared to the population base that only very few people understand this arguement)
And as a final point, most kids that take part in elite sports do time manage well and have good study habits.This is a Fact!

Joe,

Each time you put something up here you only loook more and more ignorant.

If you had have done any stuy on development of elite athlete's you would find that to produce maximal results a majority of individuals need to participate in a cross section of sports "sampling stage" until their reach 10 years of age. Hence no U/12 SASI. That until they reach 13-14 years of age they only need 2 trainings as they get more out of playing games than they do trainings. Hence no SASI for U/12's. That it is not until they reach 15 that an athlete should in general specialise in 1 sport and have 5 trainings for each game.

There are obvious exception like Womens gymnastics but that is a whole diferent kettle of fish.

For people doing year 11 and 12 they actually only do 3 terms of SASI, once per week. They do not do term 4 due to study commitments. And it is probably the best session they get each week in terms of competitiveness.

And it has already been shown that players can get high TER scores while doing it if they manage their time. Darren Ng managed to get intto Medicine and he was at SASI.

And when you talk about the time line for the AIS again you are just another ignorant fool who thinks that their OPINION is a fact. Well it is not.

The AIS is mainly for players who have already turned 17. Go look at their website. Their is only 1 player who doesw not turn 17 this year.

If I get this right:
it doesn't matter that the top junior bball players (U16-U18) are overtraining at the moment, because there are only 80 of them?!
What kind of an argument is that?
Two busloads of our best.

We should judge by results:
1) SA has not done very well in nationals at U16/U18 level.
2) When those that are left over after this selection process go away to represent our state, they won't be in top form, because they have been overtraining for 4 months.
See a possible connection between the two?

What to do about it:
- District clubs to allow state squad players one training a week rather than two (only the strategic traing; they don't need the fitness training)

- State squad players to be exempt from SASI trainings for the time they are in the state squad.

That would fix it.

77549, doesnt SA consistently perform better than every other state for our population size? M

77549, Dont alot of the more successful Vic clubs train 3-4 times per week from U14s?

77549, Didnt 20 men come runners up?

77549, Do you know what you are on about?

"SAIS is a very important stage in basketball development but it should be for under 12,14 and 16's"

I wouldn't be subjecting my 10 or 11 yr old to the wrath of SAIS (sic)

#77567 obviously you don't want your child to be a world-class athlete then or be as good as they possibly could be.

When Lleyton Hewitt was 10 year old do you think he was sitting on his arse playing video games or off doing intensive tennis training to be the very best he could be or Tiger Wood for Golf? Libby Lenton or Ian Thorp for swimming? Harry Kewell was 15 year old and moved to England to live out his dream. And yes children as young as 10 should be in intensive training if they want to be a world class athlete, if not why put yourself though all that pain.

Joe,

Interesting reply.

Might I add hypercritical to your ignorance.

To say that somebody is a 'snivelling nosed sniper' because they called you ignorant shows that you are doing exactly what you yourself are doing by name calling. And I would say that calling somebody ignorant is actauly saying that they have not been in a situation to know the full facts.

And I still hold that you have not every been to an International tournament as a participant which I have. That you have not been involved with the AIS which I have. And that you have not been involved in the selection process with elite level athlete's over a number of years which I have. Or that you have even studdied the process of elite athlete development which I have. Therefore your opinion is built around ignorance compared to mine.

Joe you say "I said to be an 'lite athlete on a world stage' you have to be in an elite sporting program by the time your 15 or 16 year of age"

How then do you explain that everybody in the NBA would NOT be in an elite program until after they turn about 18. ie Most US players are still in high school being coached by somebody with a teaching degree not a coach background. That includes the 2 Aussie NBA players who were not at the AIS until after U/18's.

How do you explain that any every player in the NBL was NOT involved in an elite level program by the age of 15.

Your ignorance is bliss.

Joe,

What is the difference in using anon and using an alias like Joe M? How can we be sure that your real name is Joe? IF you liek call me Anekin, does that help.

And I know that you haven't been involved in any International tournaments because I know that people who have, would never think the way you do! Probably because they would then be aware of the process, hence not be ignorant.

Joe,
Even though he is Anon, just about everyone here knows who he is, and his background. Most of us here I guess also agree to the "credibility" of your posting (as described by you being "the new yogee").
I laugh at the fact you get all high-and-mighty about his name calling, yet YOU do the exact same thing. You claim he has no credibility as he is anon, then you go about arguing with him and responding to his bait.
And as someone who doesn't pretend to know-all about this subject, I know who's opinion I hold in higher regard, it is the person who I KNOW has been involved in the elite level sports the subject is talking about, rather than the person who claims to know all despite showing no evidence he has been involved in the subject - regardless of whether he puts his name to his post or not....

"And I still hold that you have not every been to an International tournament" how do you know I haven't. "

Well Joe, enlighten us - which elite level program have you been involved in?

barry richardson, werner linde wonder how many other blasts from the past we will see here.

i've been in the sasi program and i think it enhanced my basketball skills and fitness, once i left sasi at the age of 17 i noticed my skills dropped and my fitness dropped and injuries started to occur. so i think at the age of 16, 17 and 18 is wen u should be training as much as possible. and to reach the highest level all it comes down to is training if u dont train hard u wont make it.

I don't care how good you are; you must not commit to sport to the detriment of getting the best education you can get for a possible fall back position.

You might be the next MJ but what happens when you do your knee several times in two years?? What do you fall back on.

What do you think the ratio is of potential juniors to people who reach NBL/European League/NBA and then what do you think is the ratio of people in the NBL who can make enough money or set themselves up to have a decent lifestyle for the rest of their life.

I played state football as a teenager. But it was quite a simple choice when it came to a choice between work/study and football - football came third. I was not a gambler with my future and am now comfortably making more money than I ever could have expected playing football.

DO NOT PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET.

Joe,

The problem is that your opinion does not hold with relation to current developmental theory. And it does not hold with the current success this country is having under our format. And finally, IMO if you want to come on here and put forward your opinion you need to be able to back it up with facts and results. Otherwise I could have the opinion that the sky is Red, and so long as I maintain that is true without facts, you cannot prove otherwise.

And considering we have produced the Best Female player in the World as well as the Best U/21 Male player in the World. And by that I am talking about the Australian ITP Program for Junior basketball. I would suggest that we are doing well. Considering our 20M population.

Players in U/12 do NOT get enough benefit out of extra training session. At U/14 level only those players who are physically mature would, and even then, only those with higher mental ability would be able to sustain and improve from more than 2 trainings without becoming "burnt out". This is due to their needing to play different sports. Not until somebody reaches 15 can their bodies and minds deals with and improve from extra individual and team sessions because they become easily bored with the necessary repetative technique instruction to perfect a skill to an elite level.

Jason Williams, Scott Ninnis, Nathan Hawkes, Paul Rogers, Brett Wheeler, Darren Ng and Matt Illman all had varying success at the Elite level. All didn't go to the AIS and none would have been considered elite level players as 17 year olds. In fact, of the above, only Darren was good enough to make State U/18's.

#77658

Nobody is saying put all your eggs in one basket.

Darren Ng was able to get into Medicine and Angela Marino into Law and they both had a large commitment level including State and SASI through year 12.

Joe M,

I thought you were an expert on SASI and the effects it has on players? So should I ask you that question?

I would say on a whole, and this is supported by literature. Players in high level sport genreally have better time management skills than other people. I am sure you would find that SASI graduates have a higher level of scholastic and employment success than people who do not conduct high level sport.

The commitment level is decisded by family and athlete. If a family does not care about an individuals education level that is their perogative. If the same family is concerned about the effect SASI is having on their studying ability, they can stop, nobody can make them do it.

Joe,
At least anonymous HAS 2 or 3 examples of success - that's 2 or 3 examples MORE than you have provided!!

Joe

Starting to get a bit defensive are we.

1/ "to be an 'lite athlete on a world stage' you have to be in an elite sporting program by the time your 15 or 16 year of age,"

2/ "SAIS is a very important stage in basketball development but it should be for under 12,14 and 16's once a player gets to 16 years of age the have to decide what they are going to do."

3/ "Unless you are in an elite sporting program like the Australian institute of sport (and much to some people chagrin SASI is not an elite program)"

If you are going to be making statements about something and saying that you know better than the people running it. Then would you not consider yourself to be an expert?

You obviously have no idea about the subject and still want to have your opinion heard. But if you are going to write soemthing that is obviously wrong, people are going to shoot you down.

You have by your own admission never been an elite level athlete. Nor been involved in etlite level, nor feeder programs. So why do you consider your opinion of any value?

Therefore why get offended when somebody with greater education and experience on the subject tells you that you are wrong. And my opinion is that your opinion is incredibly out of date, and ignorant. And my opinion is that I can tell people that you are wrong because you are talking nonsence.

Anon (77672)

You are right it is an individuals's and parents" perogative to do what they like. Unfortunately there are many parents who believe the hype over their child and continue to push them down a dead-end road. For every one child that ends up making a living out of sport their are hundreds who do not. Some parents have blinkered views of the capabilities of their child and do them a dis-service by not balancing sport with education.

Anon (77676)

People will always highlight the exceptional and try to draw the long bow conclusion that it is the norm. Yes their are 2 or 3 named people who are exceptional and should be congratulated. Iam not going to name names for those who do not measure up to these lofty standards. If you want names look at all past persons who have been in SASI or AIS and ask yourself where are they now.

anon #77681

Then we are not talking about the 'burn out'problems associated with SASI and elite level sport, but more with parental attitudes in sport and society.

And again, ready literature on high level athlete, generally they have higher standards of scholastic success than non-elite level athlete's.

I thought Darren Ng was absent frm Basketball while he was doing Year 12.

Okay lets look at Someone doing Year 12, a female, SASI, State, Under 18's and ABA the training times that are required.

SASI - One night Training
and you are suppose to do weights twice a week and SASI Gym.

STATE Training Twice a week for 2 hours (Sat & Sun) plus as the a time get closer to the Nationals a mid week game.

Your Club Un18's if your Coach is okay with it 1 training a week but as you get to the Club Championship
an extra session is thrown in no matter how good the coach is. Don't forget your friday game.

ABA - Cause if you are any good you have to start having a bit of contact with the ABA. So 2 trainings a week plus the game on saturday night.

Also what is you want to prastice a bit yourself.

Besides going to school and completing assignments you might get a bit of free time somewhere between 2.00 am and 3 am.

Lighten the load. Which one? State the coach will chew you out and call you a whimp.

SASI - who would dare?? not to forget that weight trainings.

Your Club Under 18's - weel isn't that a stepping stone for the state

ABA that is your future especial if you wont to go anywhere in basketball - you need to be explosed at this level.

Then you must have recovery.

See everyone wants a bit of you they don't look at the BIG PICTURE they only worry about their domain and carry on should you not make their trainngs.
Now if you are an above average player but wont to make it you HAVE to please everyone so you can be given a go.

And you reckon you don't get burn out. YOU a Dreaming

77696

I forgot to mention the time taken travelling to all the training Stadiums so what might be 2 hours ends up being 3 hours plus. Pluss Joe M I didn't mention my name cause I ain't going to be screwed over

Werner Linde
I'm glad someone understands what this is about: recovery, and mainly for U16s and U18s.

It is not about managing workloads or exeptional examples or whether Darren Ng basketballed through y12 or not. It is also not about the benefits of elite sport in shaping soemones attitude in life & attitudes.

Last year U 16 B came 10th. Not good enough and I've heard fatigue was a major factor. U16 girls 6th. U18 men came 7th, U 18 women 2nd. The latter is good, but the whole picture isn't.

Recovery's the problem here...

For example: U16s are going straight into TI camp after playing 2 tough games per day during each of three days of the easter carnival. Not enough recovery time, and there are scores of such examples.

Anon (77685),

There are studies everywhere. I would think that English premier league soccer players would be considered elite sports people. A study conducted approx a decade ago determined that their average IQ was x% lower than the general public. I know numerous students who are not sportspeople at all who consistently won academic awards. To me the issue is: How does an elite sportsperson with an IQ of x perform scholastically with a non elite sportsperson with the same IQ.

anon #77765

The U/16 State team last year were hit by a major sickness. They also did not perform well at U/14 Nationals. That same group lost 2 game at Pt Mac. Maybe they just are not a good group compared to previous years! If you do not know the full picture then your opinion is full of holes.

What you are saying is that none of our players should consider going to the AIS becasue they are incapable to train at that level. The training program that produced Bogut and Schensher has players doing twice as much at a much higher level of intensity than our kids.

Lack of recovery, have you spoken to the State coach about what type of recovery they are plannig to do in the preperation? What understanding of recovery do you yourself have?

I would say no, and none. But of corse your opinion is important. (insert sarcasm here). My opinion is that you have no idea.

Anon. 77696
"ABA - Cause if you are any good you have to start having a bit of contact with the ABA."

Couldn't disagree more with this one (and I am involved with seniors). People are selected for All-Australian Camps and further (AIS etc.) primarily based on their results in junior championships (16/18 Nats) rather than any senior basketball they play. Seniors should be the LAST thing added to the plate, and only if they can handle all of their junior commitments on top of their school/job commitments.

I have just read this thread from start to finish. I am now going to have a lie down. I am BURNT OUT and need to recover.

(#77780) - was that study done in conjunction with the study that conclusivly proved that the majority of professional soccer players will develop some form (minimal to mild) of brain damage, due to continually 'heading' a ball?

Cat in the hat - wrong. The Ng's boys did not take

"a year off of basketball to complete Year 12."

They may have put district on hold, but they still played school ball. 2 trainings + 1 game per week.

Marcus tool a year off to recover from an ACL reconstruction. And they were all in a postition where they were doing Year 11 during U/18 State. This does not hold for a majority of players. They would be in only 1/4 of the SA population that does year 12 as U/20's. They continued to play club ball but didn't have State or SASI commitments becasue of their age, not due to their decision.

this is silly. dont worry about the ng detail; analysing whether they played or not; why, how, where they played etc. the rest is a good discussion though.

re re: Burnout (#77765) and re: Burnout (#77784)

Both of you are imo correct in various issues. The trouble here in SA is we expect the players to achieve Gold Medals while running on a tin can budget when they go away to Nationals. The Eastern States take a TEAM of support with them and go to nationals to win.

Coach and Manager have huge jobs and not enough time to ALSO play Nurse or First Aid to the players every day. Players are also not switched on with proper, good knowledge to tend to illness or injury and get slack at it quickly or dont talk to people (re: Burnout (#77080)). Most parents there watching their kids play know little better.(re: Burnout (#76982))

Many people who have posted above have many good points. Far too many to individualise, but nevertheless, hard , long, intense and vigorous training and success can be achieved with proper daily/weekly management and a total team approach that includes skills, mind and body. Want more, well build a bigger team of specialists to call upon and be there when really needed. Players, speak up without fear abd be honest about your bodies.

"Footy and cricket clubs adopt the approach of they actually want kids playing at the age of 22 at their club senior levels and therefore encourage their juniors to participate in other elite sporting pograms. "

Interesting. This philosophy could be let them burnout in another sport and we got them for life. This could be considered quite smart. They seem to be successful at doing this too.

Tournaments are optional.
TI camps are not compulsory, they are optional by invitation only.
If Neil says they are compulsory and you go along with this view then you help to add to the myth of burnout,because as a responsible parent you should say enoughs enough.If your child wants to go dont bitch about it, if they dont, then dont send them.
Life choices.........

Problem is: they don't want to get punished for not showing up.

(and, unfortunately, that is how the system works.)

How are they punished?
Corporal punishment..I dont think so
Verbal lashing...possibly, but is that going to hurt
Excommunicated from sasi....would only be on overall performance..not for not attending one little TI camp

Cricket and Football are only 2nd and third teir sports.

When their funding comes directly from their performance at Olympic and World Championships and see how their attitude changes.

Basketball seems to be more of a CULT sport, those in it are obsessed!!

their mum,

Whilst in Australia Crickert and Football dominate media and culutural awareness they are not sports in which the Australian teams are competeing against numerous other World Team to be the best.

No other country in the World plays Aussie Rules Football. And it isn't really played in the 2 biggest States in Australia. Thus it could be considered a 3rd tier sport.

Cricket is played by only 8 countries. And only smallish sporting nationas. So to dominate that sport really isn't that hard.

Basketball would be considered a top tier sport. It is the second most played sport in the World behind only soccer. It is an olympic sport but also has a World Championship.

Our elite level athlete's not only compete against the US, but also countries like Lithuanian and Serbia where basketball is a National sport.

To be able to compete with them need to develop and train our elite level players to the same or greater standard of these countries with far less close competition.

An elite level 17 year old in a country like Serbia will have played close to 20 international games before they turn 17.

To compete with this kind of development we need our athlete's to make the level of endeavor and work rate these countries have.

In south australia i dont think the players get burnt out by the age of 17 or so, i think the players realise that they dont have the talent to compete at a high level and eventually loose interest and get bored of getting up every morning not be able to walk due to the years of injuries and abuse on the body. and eventually quit district and just play for fun with friends socially, i noticed noone liked when the woodville boys moved from woodville and made a new team, but u cant blame them for moving on and playing basketball for fun.

If you read those comments they are actually facts and not negative comments.

Football does not have other countries playing it.

And Cricket has only a few nations which are considered good enough to have 'test' status. Have a look at Gillespie knocking a double ton on Bangladesh. Not really a competitive game.

Michelle,

The cricet reference is that Australia beating countries like Bangladesh, Zimbabwie etc does not mean that they are really doing a great job at developing players or the sport, rather that they are paying countries that will never have high level sporting teams of any kind. If World basketball were played only by the same teams that play World cricket, nobody would care that Australia won. Oh, wait a second didn't we call that the commonwealth games.

My guess is that you are involved in a club which does not have a full time JDO/Development officer but manages to pay their senior teams $25k. Maybe you could go back to your club and ask why they have a debt to BASA but still pay senior players who generate negative income to your club.

And that you have no understanding of international level sport or Australia's success at that level. Or that our 'federal funding' for the sport is actually linked to our performance at the international level.

Comparing basketball to Cricket and Football is non-sensical as it is like comparing cheese and chalk.

Exactly Anon (79119). They are like chalk ad cheese. But which is which?? If I was an elite athlete in Australia and I had a choice of chossing one of the three sports to focus my efforts with the view of making a living I would be focussing on AFL first, cricket second and basketball last. Why is it that these 2nd and 3rd tier sports get better coverage, generate more income for their participants, are more tolerant of other sporting activities at a lower age...I guess they get the rewards because they have got it wrong!!!

I think that their mum is spot on. My son is 8, is more developed than my other son at the same age who consistently plays Div 1 basketball but will lose develop years to basketball because he wants to also try football and games are on Sunday morning. We need to come up with a development/training arrangements for young kids to allow them to accommodate as many sports as they can early on in their development. Otherwise you are making kids make a choice at an age when they shouldn't have to. As a result many potential players are lost to basketball as they would prefer/choose to play a game of say footy rather than do defensive slides at training.

anon #79121

I wounder if Luke Schensher's parents had the same thoughts.

Nobody is arguing that there is more opportunity to make a living playing elite level football than basketball.

But my understanding was that people play elite level sport because it is what they enjoy. Especially kids. If they would prefer playing Football to Basketball then they should play Football. If your kid enjoys playing basketball, why would you make them play fooball instead? If they are not enjoying it as much they are more likely to stop playing elite level sport all together.

Anybody can continue playing social basketball and still play other sports!

He enjoys both. Problem is at his age he has a choice of training at basketball or playing games at football as clubs schedule bball training at the same time footy games take place. If clubs want to attract and keep juniors, particularly in the very early, formative years they need to be aware that there are other sporting options out there.

Michelle,

District basketball is not participation. School/church/social basketball in participation level basketball.

Why are you complaining about not being able to play in elite level competition when you have proven your own criticism wrong by being able to have your child play social?

You want all the benefits of the trainings without being willing to even turn up when it is suiitable to the other 99% of people.

Either play district or play football and socail basketball!

but dont argue that you want your kid to be able to play both but have it suit your time table but NOT that of the oter 99% of people. Becasue that is narcissistic.

Above post, sorry I have got it all wrong. I did not realise that district basketball automatically refers or identifys as elite basketball as opposed to just participation in Church/Social games- my mistake and obvious ignorance.
I've seen a lot district players out at social games and have seen some district games myself where other family members are playing but I did not realise that all district players are elite because they are not merely "particpating".

Yes I want the benefits of the district training and yes it is unfortunate for me that district basketball has the game on Saturday and one of its two trainings on Sunday morning which leaves no weekend time for anything else but as you have pointed out this District setup is elite and I fully agree that to become elite you need to decide which sport but it's just a bit dissapointing that a 10 yr old had to choose between the two.

So does that mean that all those players regardless of where they end up 10-20 years down the track are all elite because they chose District basketball over "particpation basketball"?

I obviously have completely misunderstood what this basketball game is all about. I do one sport only myself but that is for personal fitness and fulfillment.
Yes I see what you are saying, can't have my cake and eat it too.

I'm tired of this, I promise not to come back, good luck to all the district players and their families with the turmoil that clouds your elite sport, guess that could explain the increase in district teams coming out to also play socially.

District is elite because the competition has the best of the best.

Sturt's U/14 Boys were crowned National Champions last year. That is elite.

The problem you are referring to is that the competition has grown to also provide a participation component. Under regonalisation and pro/rel you would have the opportunity to divide the elite from the participation. Hence the current problem.

But that is not to say that trainings will change from Sundays which was one persons concerns. And their sarcasm shows that they cannot accept that things will not work out in their best interests. But will ratrher involve what is best for the majority and therefore the best for the sport. And it is noted that an alternative has not been given, rather just a compaint made.