ask the state director of Basketball, one of the most repected basketball minds in the country. He selects the coaches, and if you don't know who that is, you don't know enough about basketball to be questioning the selections.

too late for assistants. Most have already been picked

I would suggest that you talk mto your clubs coaching director about becoming involved at SASI level.

Then you will be able to not only work with the players that have been earmarked as potential elite players but also those coaches who are willing to put in the extra time to help them.

Finally, make sure that you have some results to backup your complaints/requests.

The coaches that get State coaching postition have a long history of winning at junior and senior level. As well as having had a numbe of players under their guidance having gone on to higher level play.

Who are the assistants for the under 18 boys this year?

Also an a requirment to swear at kids and also get Techs from umpires through Championships. Especially at an Under 16 level.

And yes Neil, yes Neil.

Maybe it is to Medal at National Championships and the Classics as well as winning State Championships.

Very good and congrats but what about at State level - or haven't we got the players or the right choice of players

Can anyone please let me know if the State Coaching Director is on a contract or is it an ongoing position?

Who is he employed by? I assume it would be either Basketball SA or SASI.

govt - SASI

So does that make it like most other govt jobs?

Because if it does its probably not good for the government to be getting involved in performance measurement / assesment of sporting coaches.

Once you get a govt job they cant sack you unless you really do something negligent or illegal. I wonder if this is the case with the State Coaching Director? Not saying Neil is doing a bad job because I really wouldnt know, just saying that the process may be flawed.

AFAIK - his job is still under the AIS boss, ie he can review the job. But i'm also of the understanding our basketball boss is respected as the 2nd top (junior) basketball mind in Aus only behind the AIS big boss.

3 out of the 4 of the current U/18 and U/16 coaches have all won medals at National Championhips.

That does not meamn that they will win them every year or even this year. Becasue States with much larger players bases and more competitive competitions are also trying to win.

Plus the fact that you are dealing with young players who are bound to have the odd bad game, which can happen at anytime and medals are not guarenteed for anybody.

The State coaching director is probably has the highest credentials in the country. As well as consistantly producing more AIS players per population than any other State as well as overall better results than any other state except Victoria which has 10 times as many players playing.

I raised the question of employment as it concerns me that someone in that position (not specifically Neil, but anyone in that kind of role) is not more accountable.

It concerns me that that person can hold onto their job essentially until they die regardless of whether it is anyones best interests becuase "that is the way it has always been" which we all know is BA's motto.

I would be very interested to read his Job Description.

have you looked for it on the SASI site?

It is just a big boys club and unless you know someone or suck up the right ass, you will go no where.

Isaac - i think we need a sour grapes icon, to go along with the basketball icon. Or would it lose its value in the # of posts that would be 'graped?'

Well anon #64960,

What are your credentials? Or better still, put up the credentials of somebody who you think should have gotten the State job ahead of one of the people who did get the job.

Put up or shut up!

Well anon #64960,

What are your credentials? Or better still, put up the credentials of somebody who you think should have gotten the State job ahead of one of the people who did get the job.

Put up or shut up!

i think you got the wrong number pal.

64956, state coaching jobs are not the most sort after roles that probably explains why these guys are in there. They do tend to work there arses off and have been around for a long time and been dedicated. Unless you can do better or are prepared to do the work for virtually no rewards then shutup

Sorry that was anon # 94956

ABL Coaches get at least 7K.. Good ones up to 15K...

Have they been appointed yet? Or is this person just going on what they have heard?

State Coaches for 2006

U16 Girls Marc Wallis
U18 Girls Damien Weeks
U20 Women Chris Lucas
U16 Boys Paul Mesecke
U18 Boys Scott Loveday
U20 Men Richard Hill

How long has it been since a female was the Head Coach of a State Team?

I believe Tracy York was, but who else?

plus there are four country position for those of you who keep thinking state equals metro

Probably best to givce the head coachesd a call and try your luck.

Great to see Paul Meseke coaching state again he is a real asset. Pity about Paul Arnie. The rules ain't the same with the Girls - no matter what happens, same old, same old coaches. Maybe try the girl Arnie. Good Luck Girls

clubs are managing players workloads better. Alot of the coaches have been through similar workloads as players and are smarter now than when u went through. Seniors can wait.

yea it was a strong era in SA Ball

I absolutel agree with crudeboy (but maybe this deserves another thread?)!

Both timewise and healthwise the number of trainings required is over the top, prticularly for Y12s but also for other juniors involved in District, SASI, State.


Timewise: 24hrs per week including transport is a minimum they can get away with at the moment (that doesn't include school/social games).
My guess is that for over 80% of these kids basketball is never going to be part of their carreer. All of them should be allowed to spend around 40hrs a week on their schoolwork (more in Y12), develop longlasting friendships, deal with their hormonal changes, experiment a bit with relationships, spend time pursuing their other interests and have at leat 10hrs sleep per night. Believe me, with training/game schedules like this, that doesn't fit in a week.

Healthwise: I don't think 16 hrs training/games a week is good for the physical development. When muscles, joints and cartilage don't get the time to recover it can actually cause damage.
Also I believe that there are steep diminishing returns when it goes over 3 trainings and a game a week.

Off my soapbox now.

Then that is fine. Make sure you and your kids don't do that much work.

But if you ask Phil Smyth how much basketball he did as a kid it would have been more.

The big problem now a days is that there are multiple coaches who want a slice of each kids time as well as families wanting their child to do more other things. This leads to a large amount of time "lost" in travel time.

Basketball and sport in general are great teachers of all those things above.

But if you are interested in being an elite level athlete then sacrifices and compromises need to be made.

Yeah, or you could make all those sacrifices and end up the 11th player by a decision of a coach who is busy looking after his own Club!

Just because you don't make the team this year doesn't mena that you won't improve enough to make the team in a year or two. If you arne't willing to take that chance, then you will never make it in the future.

That was a sour reply #65089!

I'd like us to talk about the benefits of putting in these hours, both for these juniors *and* for SA basketball.

As crudeboy said, there was a lot of burnout back then, but there is still lot of that happening now.
Shrugging your shoulders and telling us these drop-outs didn't have the attitude required isn't necessarily the best response for the quality of basketball in the state. One could wonder whether the training programs could be better balanced to keep these talents on board, so that they will develop further after Y12.

As you say,
"The big problem now a days is that there are multiple coaches who want a slice of each kids time"

Yes, and it leads to inefficient use of everyones time (players, coaches, parents) because of dimishing returns. Just hoping the coaches are aware of that, and willing to discuss the issue!

Not sour grapes. Just the facts of life.

If Training starts in Late February early March why not just have it Sundays, Not Saturday and Sunday even if it is a bit longer on Sunday. Or maybe a Full day camp and Teams can bond etc. with Trails Games, just like Under 20 Boys this year. It is the Total commitment for such a LONG time that is hard. You do ALL this training no life and then cut and the last minutes. Wonder why next year you don't front up.

Again, if you don't see the benefit of the extra training and commitment will have in the long term then don't go out.

But understand that those players that are able to deal wqith the adversity of missing selection and continue to make the commitment often become the best players.

Other people like Scott Ninnis, Matt Illman, Paul Rogers and Nathan Hawkes did not make State until U/20's.

Probably only just missed out, but seems like it confirmed their resolve to keep working hard on their game and too improve.

Possibly they were replacements for players that were lost through burnout? (Having not suffered burn out themselves between 15 and 18, because they didn't need to meet the exorbitant requirements at that age.)

I still wonder whether we're actually selecting the best players this way...

Were still doing the same amount of work as then other as they were often reserve players in State teams!

Generally players don't go on to the next level because senior teams don't give young guys a chance. They sit on the end of the bench and don't improve.

And we are all talking about blokes. Who are the girls that have missed out and then come out shining on the other side?

I bet you the answer is none!

Mind you that seems to be the way of it, no one gives a crap about the girls.

perhaps its because there haven't been as many girls willing to continue playing ball past the 18's level without excelling.

And add on top of this the country kids who travel to town play metro for a club. (many at a young age) Then need to stay in touch over christmas holidays with an individual program to go to Albury in late Januaury and play a major tournament. They have no break at all. I sit there and watch kids burn out before my eyes.

Smyth makes the NBL players have 4 weeks off at the end of season, and they are not allowed in a stadium let alone touch a ball. What about our kids????????

Is there any common sense out there?

OK everyone, no trials and no training, no form, 1st 10 to rock up at a certain place and time makes the team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get over yourselves.
Anyone who has been there will tell you all the hard work is warranted if the team is to succeed at this level. If a team doesnt its not through lack of effort, more the lack of talent for that particular year.
Individuals do gripe at the amount of work load but most will do it because they know, not to, will give their rival(team mate, opposition, etc)an edge over them, thus making them look under done or worst, selected in state team ahead of them.

ur obviously coach. u would be the last to find out about all the over training.

Of course elite athletes need to train, and train hard. However no-one benefits from them overtraining.

Many of the junior elite players do not make it to senior level. It is a pattern and happens in many sports. The reason: burnout through overtraining.

Overtraining of juniors is a reality, and training requirement for adolecents have increased dramatically over the last 15 years.

IMO current training schedules for juniors involved in district+SASI+State basketball lead to overtraining and burnout.

The second best, non-burnt out players will become the senior top athletes

25 years ago at Sturt if you played state you didnt have to train on Sunday or mid week, during the lead up to a championship. Can you see that happening now???? And yes back in those days SA metro won a lot of Gold medals.

Actually Sturt have done this and similar for their players. Senior commitments and junior trainings are managed for their State players.

Point in case that two of their U/18 girls last year played div 1 over summer, reserves through winter and had mid-week trainnigs off.

Also a couple of years ago when Dodman was in U/16's. Their was 6 state players. After the classics they did not train on Sundays until after the Nationals.

Probably more likely is that there are not enough spots for players to move into higher levels.

With the better players having 10 year careers. There are not a lot of spots for up and coming players. Only the best get through.

Again crudeboy,

The simple facts are that there are not that many spots in the NBL each year for all of our elite juniors to move into.

If a club can produce 1 every 5 years they are doing better than most.

What I don't understand:
What is the reasoning behind pushing our 14-18 year olds to the limit (and over it)? Everyone involved in junior State teams should know by now that we are losing valuable players that way!

As has been said earlier on this forum, that kind of pressure is not applied in AFL or in US basketball. Why do it?

Guys,
I think you will find that football at state junior level is just as competative. Ask someone who has been involved and they will soon tell you that it is.

Getting back to the coaches qualifications...

If you look at these guys formal qualifications, years of playing and/or experience, success, elite level experience etc. What do you think there hourly rate should be if there was an equivalent corporate type position. I would think a state coach should get paid $200 - $250 per hour. Now I know its just a hobby but what is travesty is that BASA / SASI / Government cannot find a way to adequately compensate State Junior Coaches.

Pickles Housemate,

I think you'll find "SB" of post #65058 is an ex-state coach. Lucky for you, you won't be riding a barrel off Waterfall Gully.

Pickls House,

You should know that some, not ALL Coaches and Powers to be, hold grudges and don't take criticism at all well. So why would you screw up your chances and put your name to what you know is true. It is just airing your point of view with no drawbacks.