Denny Crane
Last month

Still solo refs at SA junior games

Last night I went to watch my daughter play at Wayville.
Her game was about $16 per player, which has obviously gone up.

Earlier in the year Basketball SA sent out and email saying "there will be a small increase in competition fees. These fees cover referee payments, court hire, and the support of stadium officers who ensure competitions run smoothly each night."

And not just our game, but other games too had solos at the same time.

So what am I paying the extra money for? To have an Stadium Officer who, quite frankly, she had no idea what Basketball was.
For 1 referee?

If it's because you don't have enough referees for the competition then do 1 of 2 things: either reduce the amount of teams you allow in So there is enough referees for the games, or 2, get more referees.

It can't be that hard can it???

Topic #52717 | Report this topic


Sebastian  
Last month

Go get your strips Denny or shut up

Reply #962384 | Report this post


Denny Crane  
Last month

Unfortunately my disability stops me from doing so, otherwise I'd be out there.
But I can't justify paying more to get 1 referee

Reply #962386 | Report this post


+  
Last month

if 2 refs become mandatory may lead to cancelled games again.

A good experienced ref can do some games solo.

What level of game are you talking about Denny ?

Reply #962390 | Report this post


Maddog  
Last month

There's not enough refs because they are training them to be so precious no one is allowed to engage with them.
It’s really poor from the peak body.
The current breed of higher end refs and NBL1 refs have their backs up before the game even starts.
And stop calling people complaining about bad calls abuse. Acknowledge the coach/player and you’ll find the game goes more smoothly.

Reply #962393 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Last month

Maybe refs should abuse coach's and players for bad play! 30 turnovers, shooting at 15%! Everyone makes mistakes. Referee/umpire abuse isn’t a sport, it will be the end of community sport.

Reply #962395 | Report this post


Observer  
Last month

Maybe it's time parents need get in court and umpire ,last year BSA sent email out to improve the current situation but obviously not interested. All talk no action .Surprised per player pays $16 just to play a game. Unfortunately UIC are paid good dough ,but not keen to get on phone to ring refs,some UIC have no basketball knowledge.I believe in a few years there will be no refs ,nothing like it was in 90s ,good refs good UIC ,good managers,now nothing is left .So sad.

Reply #962398 | Report this post


Reggie  
Last month

Had three refs on a Friday night a few weeks back. Never had that before but was told it should be the norm.

Reply #962399 | Report this post


JT  
Last month

Classic modern Australian transactional mindset. All take, no give. Only when there's no games will some finally get it

Reply #962419 | Report this post


The Phantom  
Last month

One of the more popular topics that comes up several times a year, lack of refs. And the answer is always the same, why would kids put up with copping abuse from the sidelines when there's easier ways to make money if that's their primary reason for doing it.
Talk of increasing money is a Trump idea, soon it'll cost $30 per player for a kid to earn $50 a game. The idea of parents and coaches being more closely supervised to cut down on abuse would generally help, but seems kids just really aren't that interested in reffing full stop. Serious question, do other similar sports have the same problem?
On the flip side, the sport seems to be losing good junior coaches that would make the policing situation better. There's always the coach that thinks every call is wrong and argues, but a lot that accept it as part of the game and encourage new refs. Common reason they leave as well is parents. Maybe they should just allow a team manager, scorers and a couple to video the game and parents just stay in their cars and stream it.

Reply #962440 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Last month

The Phantom I like that idea of punishment of streaming it.

A parent gets a warning. If they continue then the next two games will be streamed. Unfortunately the parent will still say to the angry parents that get to miss their child playing "but the call was wrong"

Reply #962473 | Report this post


Observer  
Last month

Keeping the parents in car waiting for their kids to finish the game isn't way to go.
Each club has a parent code of conduct and it’s clearly parents and coaches are not abiding to it .Referees give up their time to referee but UIC on game nights are not doing enough to combat this ,few years ago I spotted UIC staying in car and just come out and walk around but not in UIC uniform ,plus they leave early once last game has started .
The declining numbers in refs only going to get worse .It’s time parents think they know how the game ,is to do a game and see how you go .I tell you now in 18 months there will be no refs left ,just play games with out refs and call your own fouls.BSA boss has no heart ,only there for a pay check

Reply #962474 | Report this post


Ushiro  
Last month

Two observations.

First, I took up refereeing when I was about 16 years old. I decided to put a whistle in my mouth after a referee said "if you think you can do better, here is the whistle. So spent the next 25 years being a referee as well as a player at a social level.

Perhaps one of the biggest reasons that referees cop abuse is the seemingly accepted behaviour of many of the NBL coaches in constantly complaining to referees about calls. If it is accepted at that level, then it naturally filters down to lower levels. Make it unacceptable and then perhaps one aspect of referee retention will be mitigated.

Reply #962487 | Report this post


furballer  
Last month

the BSA fish rots at the head.

Have you any clue Timmy?

Reply #962498 | Report this post


BigFishLittlePond  
Last month

Over the last couple of seasons, this situation has improved has it not?
Games are being played and I would say most of the games have two refs. Not so long ago District juniors games were being canceled every week due to not enough umpires.

Also I reckon that other states enforce clubs to provide some refs each week at their home games and then the peak body provide the top junior panel only.
That should happen in SA but typical SA mentality says that it's easier to keep bashing BASA.

If the clubs send an email to all members asking people to volunteer to coach & referee, I think BSA would have even more coaches & refs.

Also Tim Brenton recently increased what refs get paid so that is a bonus for all.

Be positive SA and get behind BASA

Just my three cents worth

Reply #962503 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Last month

That would be BSA

Reply #962504 | Report this post


Nightwing  
Last month

Most people engaging in this topic are doing so with the best of intentions. That said IMO there's no one reason or solution. The system is a complex one and coach and referee quality and depth has been an outcome of a poor structure, resources and planning.

Reply #962508 | Report this post


The Phantom  
Last month

Having parents stay in cars was mainly tongue in cheek, but they are biggest problem in sports these days.
Many years ago the UIC would pull on the whistle if they were short for a few games, when I went out a few years back they were basically doing nothing. If there is a problem that isn't on their court if they're forced to ref, why not simply swap courts so they can get first hand experience.
How about this for another solution, all employees at BSA have to referee if they are short. I bet if they're forced to give up their Friday nights they'll really sit down and brain storm ideas to help with the problem. Do the diversity and inclusion officers do anything with referees, serious question? Why not get them out and do the same for referees, imo what do they really do to earn their money?
I've known tim for a while, not since he took over, but he does care about the sport unlike the bozo before him. He even penned a post regarding this topic the last time it reared up with game cancellations.

Reply #962511 | Report this post


hoopjunkie  
Last month

Advertise the need for referees in job sites such as Seek. There are a lot of International Students looking for side hustles. Some of them would already have customer service training to deal with parents, lol. Would be a plus if immigration did not include refereeing into their allowable maximum hours of work.

Just a thought.

Reply #962526 | Report this post


That Parent  
Last month

Referees did not confirm (or decline the games) until the last minute (this was for one of them).
Another referee pulled out at the last minute.

The referees were changed to ensure the experienced referees had the solos, and not the poor kid who'd only been doing it for 6 months (or did you want the green shirt from court 5?).

What’s worse; which the OP has failed to mention, is the abuse the referees were copping on Friday night. Even those who had games officiated by those on the SDRP...

For the first time in over a year, one of those referees wanted to quit because after a bad 2 weeks, where they’d copped so much abuse, they just wanted to concentrate on their school work, their friends and social basketball. Who wants to drive 50 minutes each way to referee 3 games and be abused at 15-16 years of age?

Reply #962543 | Report this post


BigJ  
Last month

Kids (and many referees are still at school) are taught more about 'abuse' now - how to recognise it, that you don't have to cop it, and that you can call it out & remove yourself from the situation. It's valuable knowledge in these entitled times of social media and life in general, and, in my view it's the right action to take.
In my days in 'ball, (my kids were born in the late '70s so played from mid-80's.... that's 1970 and 1980 for millennials & Gen Z) we taught that you put up with the dodgy calls 'cos life wasn't always fair & it wasn't always right. Neither did you yell at someone else's kid, cos YOU thought they were wrong. Your kid makes mistakes, other kids make mistakes.
Now it's our grandson who is referring. He's got a thick hide and reckons that the 'abusers' are dickheads with no clue. (Not necessarily the correct viewpoint, but it protects his psyche.)
How are kids ever gonna learn resilience if their parents don't teach them that if you get a call that you think is unfair or unjust, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move on?

Reply #962570 | Report this post


Swish  
Last month

My kids ref in a different states and I suspect the issue to the same in all states. The main reason for lack of ref is the abuse they receive, mainly by parents and mainly by middle age men.

I have been involved in a number of different junior sports and can say Basketball is one of the worst. Watching coaches go nuts on TV is not a good look. Can't think of another casual job where a minor would receive the frequency of abuse.

Its only a matter of time where a club/s will have a claim made against them for a unsafe workplace and if successful, would cripple a club financially.

If a coach is frequency receiving behavioral tech fouls, the club should really stand them down.

Reply #963162 | Report this post


That Parent  
Two weeks ago

It's not just coaches behaving badly...
There are no consequences for when a BTF is called.

Also, solos again last week at The Lights.

Reply #963288 | Report this post




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