I'm sure it won't be long before the favourites are selected and the obvious talented players ignored.

That's actually quite funny Lobby, funnier if not true!

Exactly Lobby.

NSWM will be really strong in the boys competition.

I watched the ECC I thought the U18 boyz would be ranked more like this (projecting to the likely 12 players picked for each state):

1. VICM

2. SAM

3. NSWM

4. ACT

I think of the 4 games between VICM and NSWM, VICM were 3-1. Difficult to tell at the ECC of course, but I think VICM will be the team to beat.

If I remember correctly it was Vic Metro v SA Country in the GF 2 years ago, with Vic winning in double or maybe triple OT?

Yes, Vic Metro beat SA Country 112-106. Times thought it was maybe 1 OT period at most

Why don't the country teams compete in ECC. Are they not invited or do they just elect to do their own thing?

Always interesting to see what changes are made from 16s to 18s. VicC 18s should be strong - were strong a few years back and don't think Hamilton played.

I think Hamilton was an emergency

SA Country will be nowhere as successful in the boys this time around. No depth and a rookie HC to boot

ECC is a metro only tournament. There is at least one country only tournament, though I can't remember its name.

Acjbc

@deepwombat any new talent coming through the boys or will it largely be the same names?

ECC is a Metro tournament and the Country teams are in Albury this week for the AJBC which is SA,NSW,Vic,Tas,ACT(not all age groups),NZ and age groups are 14's,16's and 18's.

Tournament goes from tuesday to saturday playing.

Mostly the same names for NSW and SA at ECC boys but 2 absolute new standouts for VIC in Jai Fa'ale and Guer Bar. Both are the only 2 boys to be offered AIS scholarships from the 2008 group as far as I know and both have amazing upside.

Girls

Takeaways from watching ECC live.

Vic Metro clear favourite imo. Fagan, Ryan, Trout, McMechan, Nousis, Fakalata, Drmic plus bench depth. Fagan (Aus duties) and Trout (NSW) are additions from their 2023 U16 silver medal team. Ryan has gone on to another few levels as well.

SA Metro the legit challenger. Elliot, Tredrea, Hardin, Crase, Gardiner and Jones. Hilbig does have a good track record of getting contributions from his bench but not many stood out in Penrith. Hard to judge who they will take.

NSW Metro look a long way off the pace.

Queensland South - I'm guessing they will be in the top 3 with Vic and SA

I meant to add, Jaysn Harvey as Vic Metro HC is a great appointment

That's interesting DeepWombat - don’t think those two boys featured in u16 in team or as emergencies - are they bottom agers?

They are both top agers.

Guer has only been playing organised basketball for 2 years. He hadn't played reps and wasn't in the state basketball system. He was a member of the Red Roos AAU basketball team in Melbourne.

Jai was ineligible for selection in U16s due to a disciplinary issue.

Jai is a polished player, with a wide array of offensive skills and the ability to distribute. Guer is a phenomenal athlete with an intriguing skillset who I'm sure will continue to develop into an excellent player.

Oops, Guer played on the Elevate AAU team and at school, not Red Roos.

Thanks DeepWombat. Good to see a kid be recognised from outside the rep system.

@Blues67 are you expecting Soph Richardson to get a gig as a bottom ager after a strong Oceania performance?

Jai is a talent. Haven't seen much of Guer.

Vic Metro are overwhelming favorites for the girls. My best guess of their selections:

McMechan Fakalata
Nousis Tavete Newman-Morris
Ryan Richardson
Fagan Trout Angus
Trout Knight

Boys is potentially closer, but I also still expect Vic Metro to take it out.

From the whispers both Vic metro boys and girls will be looking very different from two years ago.

Hoping vic country girls will be strong considering they had 7 bottom ages last year and got bronze and also have appointed same coach.

Jai and Guer will add huge value

My bad, shooter McGavin

I was bound to forget one or two. It does reinforce that VicM are favourite. Beatable though.

From what I heard SAM were the only unbeaten u18's boys team at ECC. They will surely be the ones to watch at Nationals?
Interesting to hear that the only two 2008 athletes offered CoE scholarships are from Victoria and both were not in the HP program? Is that correct DeepWombat?

Jai was in the HP program. Guer was not.

One of the two SAM boys teams may have been unbeaten, but the other one lost some games I believe.

VicM boys (Webb, Martin, Hamilton, Johnson) had a few bottom age players in the team and as emergencies last year in u18. Assume they get in - did they feature at ECC DeepWombat?

Looking at last years u18s, some key talent now trying out at AFL clubs - Oliver Greeves, Cooper Duff-Tytler.

Early whispers from the recent ECC line up for VIC M girls:

S Fagan
S Richardson
M Angus
S Alexander

M Ryan
V Tavete

No Fakalata

Currently watching the ACJBC IN Albury.
The U18 country girls team will be a challenge this year. Some big improvements made over the past year.

L Exton
N Machot
M Harvey
M Nightingale
J King

All standout players throughout the tournament.

Webb injured. I believe Martin, Hamilton, Johnson, Warry all played

No chance of Ljubicic or Barbakas?

Bol Diing & Antonio Browne stood out of NSW boys at ECC and led them to bronze in U16. This will be a well balanced nationals with a few teams able to go all the way.

@weedy, No, Ljubicic likely missed due to limited court time after ACL injury.
Barbakas cut from what I have heard.

A real shame, she was massive last year coming in off the emergency list in U16

Yes, Webb was injured for the VICM boys at ECC.

Warry, Hamilton, Kirikiri, Martin, and Muric from the 2023 team all played, as well as the bottom agers Wilson, Dammers, and Mabbott.

Will the VicM team be stacked with Knox and Nuna kids? It is as if no-one outside that 10km radius plays basketball. You cannot tell me, in a city of 5m people, the majority of the talented players come from such a small pocket, which just happens to coincide with where BV is situated. Let's see when the team comes out. Nonsense. We need to defund BV.

Sorry about the above - just trying to wind-up a mate!

@Manders - you are probably right (even though it is a wind up) I suspect 70% of the team will be made up from those two clubs.

Yeah - they attract good talent and that area has always been the heartland. We in the north just a bit jealous!

Does anyone know how the draw works? Does it reflect off ladder placements from 2024 ?

Assume Webb and Hamilton from Knox are locks and would be hard to look past the 3 Nuna bottom agers from two years ago who have also represented AUS in Oceania since. So there's 5.
Neal and Muric would also be close.
Siegle has moved to Eltham, and probably more likely next year for Witkowski.

Early whispers from Vic m boys
No Hamilton
No Muric
No Windsor
No Martin
No Pavey
No Johnson

Wilson
Dammers
Mabbott
McCann
All bottom ages that have made the team

Assume
Kirkiri
Jai
Guer
Warry
Webb

M Langmaid in

@sunset if the above is true and if those 4 bottom agers made the team that means Keogh isn't in the team either. So the exclusion of L Hamilton doesn't make much sense? You would need another wing?

I believe Neal made it also but not sure if his a wing or more big

So it's a different looking group so will be interesting to see how it works out

QLS north and south have just announced their teams today

Wow. If true, that means the three bottom age emergencies from last year did not get through.

And from the 2023 u16 team, that won, it would seem that 5 players didn't make it and 5 emergencies didn’t make it. You would assume that those are amongst the players that BV have put the most development time into.

QLD teams announced.

I think half of VICM boys at ECC were bottom agers, so if 4 in the final side that seems reasonable. The U16s last year were very strong and not really tested at Nationals.
My mail is that Hamilton is in so maybe only 4 different from 2023 side. Do you think that is too big of a change over 2 years? Have teams typically stayed the same between u16s to u18s in the past?

Both Vic teams looked strong at ACJBC
Hamilton played limited minutes and not at all for the 1/4 and semi.

SA started slowly but finished strong toward the end of the week.

NSW started well but dropped off at the end of the week.

TAS were a mixed bag, but definitely seemed to be playing better in their last couple of games.

Hamilton is VicC. Actually think VicC will be v strong, prob better than VicM if they come together ok.

Apologies Manders if my last post confused. I was referring to Logan Hamilton from Metro rather than Will from Country. Both can play!!

VicC boys will be talented, but they will have their usual problem of no size inside. Also, I think the lack playmaking ability. But some great individual talents.

Ah, got it - and you are quite right they can both play!
My experience is that they don't test playmaking particularly well as part of their try-outs, and so you should assume they are missing some talent that is there in the system.

Really enjoyed how they organized the U18 A Grade games at the Eltham-Dandy tournament over the weekend. Isolating a block on each of the Sat & Sun arvo/evening where all teams played 2 games at Monty worked well. Plenty of great basketball that you could just sit down and watch game after game.

Any performances of note Shooter?

Some great talent from abroad, but keeping it at a local team level:
- Knox have the most depth, but are beatable
- Sandy, Dandenong & Frankston all looked fairly even - consistent output
- Eltham has a high ceiling, but needs to work on consistency
- Didn't see much of Keilor, Kilsyth, Geelong or Casey but their results indicate they are not far away
- Nunna has some great talent, but lacked cohesion which will be a worry
- Diamond Valley (no Jai) and McKinnon had limited depth off the bench
- Whittlesea not quite there

Thanks Shooter. DV may not need much of a bench if Jai plays!

Jai is at the NBA Global Academy until he transfers to the COE when the academy shuts down. He is playing with the academy team in Ballarat now.

DV will miss him a lot. Knox seem to be the stand out this year. They didn't have all their players this tournament based on the score sheets. Some teams will be impacted during the year due to BV and other stuff - mainly Knox, Dandy and Nuna. That will bring them back to the field for periods. MacKinnon have a really strong back court. Eltham great shooters. Geelong should be good as they have a few great pieces. Sandy seem to be pretty strong also based on grading but I saw the score against Knox in tournament so maybe a little off.

Are you anticipating that players will miss as they prepare for Nationals or are you referring to other events?

u18 Nationals is in April so the impact on teams will be minimal. Has more of an impact on the u16 teams as the prep for Nationals is longer.
I went along to watch a few of the u18 teams over the week end and I must admit that the level was very impressive. I watched every team play at least once and I agree on the above Knox and Dandenong should be strong this year but I was so impressed with Kilsyth as well, they could be the dark horse.

VIC has announced their state teams:

https://www.basketballvictoria.com.au/news/congratulations-to-our-selected-2025-under-18-teams

@deepwombat - are you surprised there is no Fakalata ? Is she back playing ?

No idea about Fakalata @cantshoot3s

Dam, what are vic doing...

Fakalata is back playing and making a big impact. Her season lost last year has not impacted her abilities whatsoever, she actually looks better!

According to all that seem to know, (that were there at ECC), she had a few indiscretions whilst at the tournament and was dropped from the last game. This led to her being excluded from the list for Nationals.

Nothing confirmed, but i've heard it from multiple sources.

Vic M girls look very beatable. Surprised Baensch is missing from Vic C girls

@weedyslug - is your comment in relation to the mens or womens team or both?

Both men's and women’s.

Massive is correct, how could you leave Baensch out?

@weedy - who do you think was unlucky in the boys. And don't think VicM could field two sides and be competitive?

^do you think?

On the VICM boys, I think de Koning probably the unluckiest, but I guess he would be first called up if Webb doesn't recover in time from injury.
Team seems well balanced; I like that it includes natural shooting options, although not sure on the need for 3 PGs.

Unlike the u20s, I think a second VICM team would be competitive but a touch behind the stronger sides. The 2008s don't go deep so there would be significant reliance on a few top agers who must have just missed, add to this some strong 2009 talent coming through. Thinking names such as de Koning, Martin, Johnson, Muric, Pavey, Seigle & Keough would all be in the mix.

I would say for the VicM boys that there were so many that were unlucky. We live in a State that has so much depth and talent. We need to remember that the team is one person's decision and it doesn't mean that those selected are better than those not. It just means that they are the right fit for what the Head Coach is looking for. Shooter McGavin, I like your thoughts about a second side but don't agree they will be a touch behind, names listed above would be a deadly squad. All positions covered, think they would cause an upset.

Completely agree that teams are picked to fill roles/positions, rather than picking the 12 best players. You win golds by picking teams with talent and balance, which VicM has an enviable record of doing

NSW
https://www.bnsw.com.au/news/2025-u18-state-team-announcement/

ACT
https://www.basketballact.com.au/u18-territory-teams-named-for-national-championships-in-april-2025/

What is clear is that social media will not be seen to influence the VIC coaches. If I had one word of advice to an aspiring State player and their private coaches, calm down on the profile it won't help in fact it is counterproductive.

Interesting grading phase for u18s. Sunbury boys look strong, and Nuna seem to be coming together. Both have a fair number of State metro / country rep players. Knox seem to have a number of injuries and kids are keeping themselves for State it seems. Sandy have really dropped off a fair bit - not sure if because injuries or otherwise and had to forfeit a game. Kilsyth will be good. Then it's pretty even although some of the recent additions to VC will struggle.

Dandenong are still pretty strong despite losing a number of players to US high schools. Frankston, Kilsyth, and Eltham are strong as well. Pretty competitive VC in the U18 boys this year all in all. Hard to predict which teams will qualify for the classic at this stage. State team commitments and injuries make it very uncertain.

Many teams can win this year which should make for some great basketball. Agree the depth on lists may play a big part. Commitments aside, there seems to be more injuries about at the moment, or is it just clubs/players taking the conservative measure through practice games and not wanting to give too much away??

If teams are resting / being conservative, that's interesting given the VC teams have no games for the next 2 weeks unless practice games are arranged. The last grading period was a really important one to get the system ready. Let’s see how it plays out.

Must say social media is out of control for this age group and probably puts a lot of pressure on some of the kids who have been pumped up. I am all for building profile of the sport but it just seems a little too much for 15/16 year old kids (and younger!) to be put up as "the next big thing". Hopefully clubs are trying to put a hold on it.

I feel Iike there are a lot of injuries at the moment. Could be something to do with coming back to play after the long Christmas break

Think you're right. Reckon team training plus private training contributing. Some of the injuries are just load based. And the guys running private training sessions don't factor load of other things because they are basketball coaches and not physiologists. Having guys go hard on a Monday or Wednesday at a private session when a kid has team training on a Sunday or Tuesday. Plus they want to demonstrate they are adding value because it’s being paid for by the hour. Probably parents need to have a think about load and take responsibility for that.

Most teams are managing injuries at the moment, and majority are ankle injuries, it is just part of playing the sport. Luckily VC have an additional 2 weeks break so I think teams will be fine by round 1. Most of these athletes have basketball every day and know how to manage their work load - 2 x rep, 2 x BV, school, domestic and if in the Vic team their Vic training takes preference and they strip back on their other commitments. Nothing different to what they are normally use to.

Interesting. Fatigue increases the risk of injuries including ankle injuries. 5-6 training sessions (with no coordination between them as to activity type at training) and 2-3 games per week is excessive for a young player, imo.

Crazy isn't it? Vicious cycle though as some associations you need to play domestic to play rep, you then need to be in the rep system to be identified for SDP, SPP. NPP, And then you need to be in the BV program to be able to trial for State. Throw Footy on top of that and also school scholarship commitments. Agree that it is extremely excessive but most of the young basketballers don't know any different.

... and you need to do some schoolwork because not many (any?) of these kids are going to make a living out of basketball! Some of the training is just unnecessary and counterproductive. Training / playing every day is nuts. Anyway, up to parents to be sensible and manage that.

any truth to VICM boys squad practice games being cancelled off the back of too many injuries?

My mail confirms. Should be right when it comes around though. Bigger issue is that they have busted the selections. Country will be stronger.

Anyone know what's going on with the SA Metro boys? Are they just not going to announce their team this year?

Just watched the Vic M girls vs Vic C girls practice match. I see some comments in this thread indicating Vic M girls look very beatable. After today's action, I doubt that very much. They're stacked in all positions and coach Jaysyn has them looking sharp.
Obviously not up against a top tier side today, but they put on a clinic.

Vic M girls were outstanding at East Coast as well. With Fagan and a decent coaching staff, this group would've won gold two years ago. Now it all seems to be coming together.

What was the margin, Bear?

How did the Vic boys prac game go?

@Jayhoops, around 50points in the end.
Fagan, Trout, Ryan, Noussis, Richardson, Angus....all in scintillating form.
McMechan was strong early too, looked to have aggravated an ankle injury during the game. Hopefully nothing serious.


@Mayer, sorry, they played at the same time, I only saw the girls game.

@Mayer - was ok, still very much coming together. Won't be as strong as the previous three u18 VicM teams, but will be competitive.

SA Metro boys confirmed

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1009246747969863&set=pcb.1009246844636520

I see the SA Metro boys and both QLD boys teams picked 11. Seems an odd number, not sure why they would not want a bottom ager at the 12th spot for the experience and in case of multiple injuries.

Heard coaches / HP are looking to make changes to VIC team ahead of championships and looking to orchestrate - any intel on that? Particularly concerned about outside shooting.

Thanks @Manders, glad to hear that they went ok. Prep would be harder for VicM boys with two team members being at the AIS.
Wouldn't think you could make changes to a team that has already been announced. There would be an outcry from the parents who would of already invested financially. In saying that there are 3 named emergencies that I would of originally selected in the team. Would of given them more scoring options across the board.

@DeepWombat - agree a development opportunity missed for those states
@Manders - won't be any change now
I think every side would like more players who can consistently shoot well, but they are not easy to find. Definitely the one fundamental skill that should be focused on more through state programs

lots of shooters but not that many makers! technique on majority is garbage.

On the girls side the Vic HP coaches seem to place very little emphasis on shooting ability. There are always shooters available in Vic, they just often don't get selected and it will be a weakness again this year. Harvey is a very good coach so maybe he can cover that up to some extent. I think they will struggle against SA Metro though, as they have guards who can shoot and the best big in the competition.

Vic country won - Margin was less than 10.

Apologies - Thought I was replying to Mayer's post.

@Mayer - VC men won by less than 10.

@XXXX - Who is the big from SA Metro?

Could easily find you some shooters, problem is they are not in the click!

spot on Manders. All they do at SDP, etc is shoot Shooter McGavin, not much correction though I believe.

Heard that De Koning has been brought into the VM team to replace Webb (still injured), gives them some muscle, doesn't fix their shooting woes, although he can be streaky.

Keira Gardner, she was the dominant player at the u16's 2 years ago and looked really good last year at the Classic against the top agers. They also have Aspen Crase who is a good matchup for Fagan given her athletic ability.

Fagan didn't play two years ago and neither did Ryan last year because they were representing Australia. That's probably relevant.

As I mentioned a while back, VicC will out-perform VicM and I wasn't surprised by the outcome. Just a practice match I know. But I reckon I could pick 10 players that could beat the VicM team! Anyway, it is what it is.

Not denying her talent, but I don't think Fagan turns the needle much, I can't think of any times where she has at any level. If Vic Metro do better it will be because Nousis has improved significantly as a shooter and the addition of the older Trout sister. I don't think they will be able to do anything about Gardner though, and the guard positions are going to be a real problem both offensively and defensively.

@ xxxx, my guess is you haven't seen much of Fagan over the past few years if you dont think "she turns the needle much".
The kids a beast, I have seen her multiple times destroy teams and on others her impact was limited, but i'd put that down to some past coaches not utilizing her strengths and perhaps playing her in an incorrect role.
Her athleticism is unmatched in her age group, but like most, her shooting can be inconsistent.
Nousis, Trout, Ryan, McMechen, Richardson and Fagan....That's a group up for any side. The rest of the squad are all very strong players too. Looking forward to seeing Alexander show case her talents as a guard too.
It'll be a good contest to watch

Fagan has every major D1 school after her for a reason.

I guess we will see when they play. I've seen enough to be pretty confident in my opinion.

Its a pretty impresive list of offers. is she better than Somfai?

They play different positions and are different classes. Have to wait and see.

Take those 2 things out and who do you think is better or who will be the better player ?

I think we will have a lack of quality bigs going forward so fagan.
Somfai will have to become more of a 4 than 3 for the opals.

She must be special. Hope she gets her college choice right. Never forget you only get better by playing!

also it will be very good to see the bottom age players and how they have developed since AJC 16s 2024. battling it out for a FIBA asia place fighting for spots in the selection camp for malaysia is going to make for some top performances. a few spots open IMO. cant wait to watch it. assume it will be on the herald stream again.

For this year's Asia Cup selection camp, do you think the COE would consider players that do not make their respective u18 state sides as bottom agers?

You would hope so but very unlikely.

I would say only if their state HPC makes a strong enough case for them to BA. Initial selection squad numbers are usually around 24 I think, I'd expect a few kids in those squads that won't be at the Nationals this year.

Thanks

@Massive - yes streaming usually via KommunityTV (Herald Sun)

Youd think logically it would be unlikely bottom age players not selected for state rep would be good enough to get in a national team. did you have anyone in mind, i can only think of the wa guard that might be a shot now JS has done an acl.

probably 1 of the 3 on the extended list that were not chosen.

There was a boy that missed U16 Nationals last year due to injury but still made the Crocs, so there is recent precedent for this happening, but I agree it's unlikely.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out after Nationals. Despite winning Oceania, I think the Crocs are aware they performed a little below expectation. Does this bring about change in coaching/playing personnel or do they just back the same crew in again for Asia?

I believe Greg Vanderjagt has been signed to coach the Crocs at the U16 Asia Cup and U17 World Cup.

There will be some player changes no doubt.

Given its asia, the girls team should be less one big imo.
Cannot take all 4 of Mapp, Johnson, Clague and Manyok.
Sherrington is a loss on the defensive side.

I'm thinking

PG TBD -*
PG TBD - *3 you would expect to be a chance did not make u18 sides
CG Hocking
SG Smith
SG TBD
G/F Olechnowicz
SF Tavete
CF Ryan
PF Richardson
C/PF Mapp
C Johnson
+1 Manyok or Clague or Trout

Options Maybe?
2 of Fakalata, Robinson, Baensch, Elliot, Neate
1 of Ljubicic or Moke or someone else.

Fakalata would be great for this team, but I don't think she will be considered. Ljubicic kooks like she has a way to go to get back to pre-injury form and Baensch doesn't seem to get much court time in VJBL. The guards will have to come from other States I think.

Robinson has done an ACL

Weedy have you heard who the u16 Asia cup coach is for the girls?
Terrible news around Sherrington with her knee

Garlepp coaching the u19 gems so usually they move to the assistant, so might be Ohea.

Pants thats terrible news for Robinson also, hopefully she makes a speedy recovery.
Jenna Ohea would be a great choice Weedy.
Id say half of those kids you listed Weedy will be part of the 17 Oceania squad also, well you'd think Ryan would be seeing she's in the 19WC squad!

O'Hea is one of the assistants.

Has Ohea earned her coaching spurs? Plenty others put the hard work in over many years. I sometimes think there is an over appreciation for ex players getting an easy ride into coaching the higher levels.

Looks like Eliot is the only pg available from the last camp. They could put Hocking as the pg and bring in another CG/SG.

I'd like to see bottom aged clague kept in otherwise little international experience in next cycle team.

It's a fair point Massive. You would hope O’Hea is at least assisting in NBL1 this season to develop her coaching skills.

Unfortunately alot of the best kids will be missing this tournament.

Boys
https://www.basketball.com.au/news/complete-list-of-under-18-mens-basketball-players-competing-at-the-2025-australian-national-championships-in-brendale-queensland

Girls
https://www.basketball.com.au/news/complete-list-of-under-18-womens-basketball-players-competing-at-the-2025-australian-national-championships-in-brendale-queensland

Weedy, I see Olivia Olechnowicz was named in the Queensland South team but havent seen her on the floor yet.
Do you know if she's injured?

When will BA admit that Kommunity TV is appalling!

Injured bear.

About 12 players are out of action this tournament.
Half of those from qld sth.

Thanks Weedy, thats a real shame for those girls.

Vic Metro losing to NSW Country at halftime in the boys. This is surely unexpected?

Got there in the end. Some guys had to play big minutes and they only had 13 bench points. We'll see how that affects them through the tournament. NSW misses 12 FTs - perhaps Vic lucky to get away with that.

I see that Warry and McCann were injured in game 2 and didn't play. Are they out for the tournament?

Are they injured? Hard to tell. Certainly some guys aren't getting many minutes.

I see Vic Metro boys were beaten by WA. Great effort by WA. Shooting was horrendous.

Congrats to WAM. So, apparently you can't be selected for a Vic State team unless you do SDP. Also (going on word of mouth), SDP sessions are mostly shooting? And VM boys went 1-21 from 3 today, lol.

No one in the Vic Metro state team is in SDP. They are all at the COE, in NPP or SPP. NPP/SPP is basically the same thing and it is a lot more than shooting

Yeah, ok. The proof is in the pudding.

@xxxx have you been watching the girls games this tournament?
I'm interested to know if you have a change of perspective on Fagan and "moving the needle"?
She still has my vote on the most talented player in her age group in Australia.

https://geniussports.com/

Not sure what happened with that link. Sorry.

https://www.competitions.basketball/competitions/national-championships/u18-njwc/livestats

I wasn't saying above that the outside shooting hasn’t been poor. That is self-evident. Just that SDP and NPP/SPP are very different.

Both VIC boys teams have struggled from outside. I personally don’t think it’s not from a lack of form or uncontested shooting, our kids are getting plenty of that. I think it’s the speed of the close-outs and the length of the defenders. I think Friday night games give a bit of a false sense of confidence, as there is typically a lot of space on the perimeter to shoot threes largely uncontested.

The only thing I can think of to help VIC outside shooters prepare to play at the next level is to get the VIC kids to play up in the senior comps more, like the Euros do, and some other Aussie states are doing. Youth League. BigV and even NBL1 for some of the best

The other thing I’ve seen other states do better than the VIC boys is produce playmakers who can create opportunities for others, rather than just themselves.

That is all correct - agree entirely with that analysis, and apologies I was being a bit facetious.

Kudos to clubs that give kids a chance to play up in senior teams - youth league - there are not many. Think some associations like Sunbury, Sandringham and MacKinnon do it, but not many.

Deep Wombat >
The other thing I've seen other states do better than the VIC boys is produce playmakers who can create opportunities for others, rather than just themselves.

WA metro boys are doing that, sharing and scoring, todays game 2 minutes to go and their bench has 48 points out of 103...no selfish heroes in that team, hope they can go all the way! (not from WA, just enjoy when teams play that way) Other team 50 out of 80 points from just two players!

No assists on PlayHq! Nor FGA! Just points. What gets measured gets done.

VicM girls just went 0-23 from 3. So between boys and girls in last two games, shooting 2% - 1-44 from 3.

Must be something wrong with the rings ...

Go to this link Manders get full box scores.

https://www.competitions.basketball/competitions/national-championships/u18-njwc/livestats

The total stats aren't correct if you click on the stats as they are still last years champs, but the box scores and standings works!

Was looking at the box score for the game - 0-23. And boys were 1-21.

Anyway, outside shooting is an issue! Teams will / should just let them shoot and protect the paint.

further shooting worries cost V Metro qtrs vs SA Metro going 50%+ from 3

I wish I was surprised. Needs a revisit.

Well played by SAM, such a poor showing for a Vic Metro team though.

They'll blame injuries, but they've got the deepest pool of any state in Australia, injuries are not an excuse. The whole BV program has deteriorated rapidly with Best at the helm, ironic considering his name.

Vic Metro Boys are a year off winning the 16s, 18s and 20s and have won the 20s again this year with their B team.

They had 5 bottom agers playing big minutes at this U18 Nationals. Next year I think they will absolutely steamroll the U18s.

They are footballers. This is not developing basketball. Waste.

3 of the current Vic Metro boys play footy to my knowledge. 2 for their school, reluctantly. 1 for a club occasionally.

I don't think that is particularly an issue, with this group at least.

Poor outside shooting is a valid criticism. Lack of a functional game plan was an even bigger issue to me. The team continued to play the same way in every tournament game. There were no adjustments at all. Not once was a post play called. The team was scouted and had no plan B.

Not worried about whether they play football, just an observation that they should be footballers and probably better suited.

Huge issue with talent identification at BV - they are simply not getting that right.

Vic Metro Boys are a year off winning the 16s, 18s and 20s and have won the 20s again this year with their B team.

Remind me who is in charge of selections again? Oh, that's right, the co coaches of the B team, nothing to see here.

I don't believe a VICM loss to an impressive SAM is reason to question the whole BV program.

My view is that this team’s biggest assets also pose as their biggest challenge. Watching today, the lack of team cohesion was evident, particularly with those who may not necessarily be in the BV program.

Could it all be relative to top age / bottom age talent. Metro girls took a lot of bottom agers last year and the men did this year. If so, Vic men should be back in it next year.

They're all in the BV program Shooter, apart from the 2 COE kids, one of which has been clearly their best player all week. You can’t be selected if you’re not in SDP/SPP/NPP.

The BA players are better Juice, but there are some talented 2008 kids who were overlooked. The fact that the 2 emergencies who were brought in late played more than the rest of the bench, one was starting after game 2, tells you a lot.

Footloose you sound like a disgruntled parent. And there are athletes that aren't in the BV program that receive invites to trial for the State team. These athletes are put forward by their association DOC.

Not a disgruntled parent, just someone who's been around a long time. For U16’s, DOC’s can nominate a kid outside of SDP to tryout, but if they get through that 1st non SDP trial, they must join SDP to continue with the tryouts. With U18’s, you go to SDP tryouts, both SDP+ kids & non SDP, it’s also the 1st state team tryout. They send all the existing SDP+ kids to one area & the others to the back courts.

It’s like they don’t know that there’s early & late developers & that you need to keep reassessing as the cohorts progress through the age groups.

Footloose is spot on. System is full of hubris. Should be a spill.

What were the final standings in both men's and women's. Any standout teams, or big improvements since 16?
Or major drop off's? It would be good to know what state programs have it right and those that are going in the wrong or different direction

Vic metro men were a fail they were not the best 10 kids from metro vic fact

SA metro going gang busters compared to its country equivalent in South Australia. Their coaches are at the top of the tree, and Country at the bottom unfortunately

how do you make that claim Wayville74? sam boys failed. they should have been in the final. boys continue to under achieve. dont forget the pool sizes too. sac has many disadvantages over metro.

Who do you think missed out DR?

Assist numbers were well down - not sure if it was the style of play or they just didn't have guys who could create for the bigs and others. Assist numbers were well down. Outside shooting was a big problem also. There are a few guys that could have helped with that.

On the women's side it's been a while since such a big gap between VicM and the rest. Even beyond the big names (Fagan, Ryan etc), options across the board for them to play with and spread the minutes across the team. Barely needed to get out of 3rd gear for most of the tournament with notable exceptions like their thundering start in pool game against SAM, and stretches of the GF.

Top 4 in order ...
VicM 8-0. Say no more. Head and shoulders above.
SAM - 6-2. Both losses to VicM. Top quality in Gardiner, Crase, Elliot etc, and good bench depth, shooters and length. Big gap between SAM and 3rd.
NSWM - 7-1. Least depth of the 4, but defended well when I watched them and luckily able to get either Hastings or Donnelly firing in most games - SAM stifled those 2 in the QF.
VicC - 5-3. Good quality squad overall, but I felt too many similar players. Nightingale and Ashby probably their best, but not enough options to change things up.

NSWM and VicC also benefitted from opposition injuries and weaker pool.

Outside shooting overall wasn't great and certainly needs attention from the powers that be.
@wayville74 the biggest drop wad SA Country boys from the Gold medal game to playing NT at tournaments end. This would be alarming for their HC when the team is virtually the same bit hasn't developed or progressed any further. I'm not sure it's the coaches, more the program directive?

DR you made a huge statement! Lets hear the team you would of picked? But you would need to face the same challenges in your prep along the way.

1. You will lose your starting centre to a shoulder injury.
2. Two weeks out from Nationals you will lose your starting power forward to an ankle injury.
3. You will have two CoE athletes in your team that can never train with the team as they based in a separate State.
4. Game two of Nationals you will lose another one of your starters to the concussion rule.

Not making excuses for the team but it is (Fact)!

Mayer, they are all tough things for a team to deal with, although most teams would be happy to have a few CoE players lob in particularly the best player of the week. Not sure who DR is thinking of but reality is that, and this is hard for parents that are connected to the team, there are quite a number of kids in each year that could do just as well if not better than most of the kids selected in a team. That's just the reality. And the selections are subjective, and in the case of BV made quite early with many early developers. Same will probably be the case for other States. I watch a lot of NBL1 / BigV, and there are so many great players never to have played at a State level or even been near an SDP programme. They developed late or differently, and not particularly helped by "high performance" coaches. It’s interesting. But you can’t expect anything different. I just take my hat off to the kids that push through regardless - their love of the game and self-confidence must be high.

Manders, I always look at the situation from a coaching perspective and the prep would of been a nightmare. Just the injuries alone would of tested my sanity but then to also have your two most important athletes not being able to train with the team would of made the road to Nationals even more challenging, to everyone involved.

I also had a look back at 16's and they have not selected the same players over and over again as some people have suggested. For 5 of the top age athletes it was their first time making a State team.

The reality is as in any sport only very few make it to the big stage.

Interesting. Appears views change over time. Anyway, BV has a strong public focus on accountability and integrity, and so I am sure they will take a good look at the program through that lens and report back.

Direct quote. I agree, by the way.

"I would say for the VicM boys that there were so many that were unlucky. We live in a State that has so much depth and talent. We need to remember that the team is one person's decision and it doesn't mean that those selected are better than those not. It just means that they are the right fit for what the Head Coach is looking for. Shooter McGavin, I like your thoughts about a second side but don't agree they will be a touch behind, names listed above would be a deadly squad. All positions covered, think they would cause an upset."

I agree with everything Shooter wrote above. Questioning player selections for state (or any other) teams will never end.

I'd argue that for this particular VICM boys team there was still enough talent to medal, despite the injury setbacks. The team still had 2x COE players, 3x national team players, and 3x other players who had performed at a high level at previous Nationals.

Watching the sudden death quarter final against the SAM boys, I'd question a few things:

1) If there is a coaching directive to go under all screens on the perimeter to encourage the other team to shoot 3's, but the other team is shooting 54-55% from 3, would you consider making a coaching adjustment?

2) If your offense is basically to screen a driver to drive and finish themselves, or if they can't to kick out to a 3 point shooter, would you consider making a coaching adjustment if:

a) The 3 point shooters aren't hitting their shots

b) The VICM boys had been thoroughly scouted by this point and were seeing zones and the driver being double and triple teamed. stopping the VICM offense in its tracks.

3) Given the above, would you consider doing anything else, like driving and dishing to cutters, considering hitting the roller, running a post or double post, anything apart from what was clearly not working?

*Mayer wrote

Manders, don't think you get what I’m trying to say. Challenging DR to backup their statement. It doesn’t sit well with me when adults call kids failures. So I want to hear what they would of done differently bearing in mind the set backs and challenges the team had to endure along the way.

I get you Meyer, and agree with you by the way. They are the opposite of failures, quite frankly, and this experience will only make them stronger. I also agree with your extracted comment above - selections are what they are, and many kinds could get there in any given year. What I don't like is some of the politics, but good luck fixing that!!

All good

And I don’t think it would be great for DR whoever he or she is to start naming names - doesn’t help anyone.