The 2 leading dunkers in the lead to go at it, can't wait

Not confident Adelaide know how to stay in games on the road, so assuming it could be another Melbourne blowout. Sorry to be a downer and hope I am wrong.

White out is big. Huge chance for Adelaide to grab a massive road scalp.

Goulding in hot form, you can't play better D on that last shot and still goes in. United looking good.

Sometimes Melbourne games, particularly at John Cain are unwatchable depending on who is officiating and who is commentating.

Adelaide need to improve their D quick. Bringing Dech on is a good start I think

Can't exactly challenge when you don't have a time out to use.

Game over at half-time. We're so crap we should be flogging this United team without Jack White.

Bowen been very good in Whites absence, Sixers just don't play D good enough, Harrell being the main culprit. Davis is a very good player, Goulding is just remarkable. United got this.

If Adelaide manage to win from here, then credit to them and this post was too early, but I am just getting fed up with the same frustrating narrative, especially when playing Melbourne; wide open 3s, easy floaters, lack of concentration. When they do execute a good defensive stop, they'll give up a board and it won't matter. They start games too lazily and complacently. If they can't lift their defensive effort, attention to detail, and composure on the road, then don't bother qualifying for the playoffs. I have just found this game too predictable as I thought it might be.

To be honest zodiac the sixers issues look pretty simple... shot selection and defence. Defence is a bit harder to fix within the same roster but I'm amazed wells hasn't got them playing smarter and to their strengths. They don't go back to their screen and roll when they need to grasp momentum. But when they do they're scoring and/or drawing fouls

KD is so good to watch and controls the game incredibly well for his age

Hopefully we can keep him in the league

Bowen beating two former nba players, certainly between the ears. Sixers just don't have enough quality defenders.

Is there a reason Humphries is getting so little minutes? I think he's fully fit so is it just wells not wanting him on the floor?

Melbourne's just too good. Shame they’re such an unlikeable team.

Also, why was there no Hawks-Kings thread? I would’ve thought that was the game of the round. Is there some kind of anti-NSW bias on this site?

I can't wait for this BS Montrezl Harrell season to be over and done with. I didn't like the guy from the start, thinks he's way better than he actually is. Poor defensively and mediocre offensively he's got no lift.

We're getting our ass handed to us by a disciplined team even with their best player out and Harrell wants to go the knuckle. Piss the clown off already.

That's a crap offensive foul call on Harrell, Loe clearly pulled him down which should be unsportsmanlike as a can cause injury. Harrell and Ili were rightly ejected though. Still, get the first call right and it doesn’t happen. Aylen still as incompetent as ever, refs has been an absolute disgrace this game. NBL should be ashamed.

Trez better pull his head in. Could be seeing him ejected from every game if he responds to the slightest bit of physical like that

Harrell is nothing but an arrogant sook.

They won't be playing Melbourne every game. United are the most hateful team in the league by far, because they’re dirty and unsportsmanlike. They deliberately niggle and annoy. Their fans aren’t much better. It’s not a surprise Harrell lost it.

Agree Unckle Phil. Loe should have been the foul on. Harrell on offence is fine, defensively not great, very passionate and will get the league good coverage. Better than the Tyson fight re entertainment. Who was the fool that push DJV from the celebrity seat behind the bench, covered his head on way out, should be banned. A nice finish by the coaches at the end of it. It's an emotional game, fantastic.

How is this game still going? Started at 2:30 right?

Interesting commentary.....bit biased.


I am on the Harris wagon is a passionate player who backs it up - reckon he is good for the league.


MU are blessed to have Cameron developing as the season goes on. He is a gun.

Don't mention Hodge geez.

No comment on Goulding whinging on a very obvious foul??

Don't make excuses for him. He spent years playing in the NBA, this isn't his first rodeo. He's a knucklehead plain and simple. He tries to bully everyone and expects them to back off him but United don't roll over.

I knew last time we played United jack White would be the one guy to stand up to him and not back down, he outplayed Harrell and they beat us by 30. At our best we're okay but can't hang with the best teams like United and Breakers. Harrell knows that too hence going the tuff guy route after we're already down big.

Sixers have actually done a good job to stay in it despite being hosed by the refs and a few things not going their way. it's a make or miss game, missed free throws, those Goulding 3’s at the end of the first and second, Dech and Marshall’s open 3’s just rimming out when they were on a run. Still need a massive improvement defensive.

Flynn Cameron was really the game breaker, was very impressive. Sixers seem to be a great team for players to have breakout games against them.

When does Goulding not whinge? He's the biggest primadonna in the league. Unbearably annoying.

How do you even get a tech foul there? Bloody whinger.

The 36ers ahould be absolutely ashamed. Lost to this team by 27 last time, now without their best player Jack White we had to stand up and win this game comfortably yet we got absolutely flogged by 20. Utterly embarrassing.

If Weston had any dignity he would cut Harrell and fire himself. It's nothing more than a Harrell showcase season, a clown show like Craig Randall all over again. Someone needs to stand up and put an end to this BS.

There'll be some fines and headlines from that one

Zodiac needs to chill out. Harrell is a beast. Adelaide would be nowhere this season without him.

Wow quick to change tune about Harrell. Thought was the God send sixers needed. I think take chill.pill as he a bums on seat acquisition this leagues needs...

That's all that matters, the NBL like Randall before have helped to create this situation by making Harrell the face of the league. These guys were both knuckleheads if you hitch your wagon to a knucklehead it's going to end badly.

Each to their own but Harrell will have media outlets worldwide watching, money hopefully following.
The game overall was very enjoyable, Sixers are competitive and should play finals, if some how they could play decent D they could cause trouble but other than Dech it's very thin pickings, though Davis is very reasonable as well. United just go about there business and to think Vickerman was at the kings and they let him leave.

How is this game still going? Started at 2:30 right?

I'm just sick of the Sixers handing the keys to a knucklehead. After the 8-7 finish last season with DJ and Humphries re-signing we had a chance to build something this season. Then we hired that jumped up GM Weston, fires Ninnis brings in a career assistant to coach the team and signs Harrell knowing full well his objective is to try and play his way back into the NBA, at the expense of our season. Craig Randall situation all over again.

The broadcast continued on 10 Bold.

Shout out to Bowen as well, was excellent.

Zodiac, who do you bring in that's available, Martin still not fit enough. The local core is still not solid enough, certainly defensively.

I wouldn't replace Harrell with anyone, addition by subtraction. It will allow Humphries to flourish and get his head back in the game and would also force Martin to step it up instead of taking it easy. Our whole season has been derailed by this Harrell nonsense.

Melbourne U deeeep and the favourite.


Their crowd should be called out - embarrassing stuff getting involved with players is not on.

Flynn Cameron has played some very nice basketball this last month. How long is contracted at Melbourne for?

One more year left on Cameron's 3 year deal.

Clown of the year post goes to Zodiac

"(Harrell) mediocre offensively" Yeah imagine being 3rd in the league in scoring but is apparently mediocre offensively.

"Our whole season has been derailed by this Harrell nonsense." The team is currently 4th and has been winning because of Harrell

"I wouldn't replace Harrell with anyone, addition by subtraction" Replace one of the best players in the league with no one. Yes keep the comedy gold going Zodiac.

It adds to your Kendrick Davis is going to be no good because he played G League comment.

Also that the Sixers should of signed Gak a few years back. A guy that looks like it is his first game of basketball every time he plays.

Also Mangok Mathiang was too good for the NBL.

Keep up the great stuff

Some Adelaide fans just like to be angry about something. In what way is Harrell a negative? Yes he can be lazy on D, but he's exciting, passionate and brings interest from the casual fan.

I have had a number of people say they want to go to a game this year who normally wouldn’t, purely because of Harrell. That is a good thing for the team and the league.

At the end of the day it’s entertainment, not a league for 10% of the diehard fans who care about the nitty gritty. But sure put out a team of fundamentally sound locals no one has heard of before.

Cheers Zodiac

Exactly Sixers fan and BALLER#3. So much negativity by some.

Ha another typical SixersFan company line post. Tell me again how teams in Japan are going to be lining up to sign Daniel Johnson? lol I already explained the Mathiang thing to you, you didn't get it then and still don't get it now. Nick Kay can make more money in Japan than the NBL, Kay is not too good for the NBL.

Harrell is putting up numbers yes, that's the point of him being here. At the expense of our teams and seemingly our season. We've played three games against United and NZB we've gone 0-3 and lost those games by 27, 27 and 20. Awesome. We're 6-5, barely .500 and with a poor percentage too.

Harrell if you haven't noticed can't shoot at all, can barely make FT's. He's poor defensively and blows assigments all the time, much like old mate DJ. Only ever played one end of the floor and the happy clappers lap it up.

Well in fairness to zodiac, as much as I like harrell in the league, I don't want him playing for my team. So i kinda get his point. Love watching him though!

For starters if you look at footage ,loe was holding trez on way down ,so loe should have been picked up then loe ,pushed trez causing him to react and a players brawl.ili got a little to excited and pushed trez made it worse.
Both players sent off good move.

Spectator in grey hoodie pushed Gm,then DJV ,everyone trying to hold back trez and Davis ,the spectator will be banned .Gonna be a long week for NBL .
Trez is great for league can get a little hot headed and hopefully Weston and wells have a talk to him to keep his cool in future. Trez get suspended then mvp is gone .

Apart from incidents,great game to watch .

Harrell is a positive for the league.

He said to his team 'that's on me' re the send-off and talked to his team.


That is what he needed to do that, and he did it.

He is a damn good player and as said - good for the league.

Just a question, did Wells actually challenge the offensive foul call on Harrell? I thought he did but then he couldn't have as the offensive foul on Harrell stood and he challenged the later offensive foul on Humphries which means he hadn’t lost his challenge. Surprised he didn’t challenge the foul on Harrell as you would think it would get overruled with the replay showing Loe pulling him down. The fact Loe got off without any punishment after that play reflects very poorly on the refs and the replay centre.

Couldn't challenge as Montrez was tossed

What an insane day of NBL

" Couldn't challenge as Montrez was tossed"

I didn't realise that was a rule

He probably could have but he still would have been tossed. Wouldn't be worth risking a loss of time out

Would you rather have an import who a.) is passionate or b.) doesn't care, especially when your team have been struggling for so long.

Easy answer.

Went to the game, geez a lot of feeling there.

Does anyone else get annoyed at the Melbourne announcer actively taunting? Just so unnecessary, every other club does it so much better.

Melbourne even without White are just a class above, they absolutely carved Adelaide up again on both ends. Adelaide never stood a chance, frankly.

With that being said, Adelaide are also the dumbest team in the league. The facepalm moments with the shot clock violation from literally holding the ball yoloing, and passing the ball from out of bounds to the other side out of bounds, like come on!

Add in all those missed free throws and missing so many shots, just hurts.

Now, in terms of the shitshow that happened.

I know people and the league don't like refs being criticised, but league and/or refs deserve to be called out for the consequence of the home cooking each team gets. It trains fans to be royally pissed off when their team doesn’t get the same treatment away.

It also trains the players to be constantly WTFing when they get fantastic treatment at home and obliterated with inconsistency away. I could be wrong, given they give us sweet f all info in the arena, but I think there was an instance where a Melbourne player pushed another Melbourne player accidentally and Adelaide had the foul against them. That would sum up the experience of the NBL.

An example is Goulding’s flopping and kick-out the legs threes, can we please clamp down on it everywhere not just outside of Melbourne?

When asked after the Hawks game if he needed to talk to Goulding, Vickerman basically said that there hasn’t been consequences (Tech or league punishing it) so why does he need to? That tells me the league isn’t getting it right.

Punish it to the point the coach NEEDS to talk to the player about not doing it. That’s your critical point of stamping it out.

When Goulding kicked his feet out and Adelaide got the foul, I felt the 36ers start to get agitated and from there they COMPLETELY lost the plot. No maturity and calm, just absolutely spiraled with frustration.

Trez was due for a tech and ejection and it doesn’t surprise that it happened today. His short fuse is always going to be taken advantage of. Someone needs to show American imports videos of the NBL where Aussies/kiwis get physical and a bit dirty and a bit under the skin to make them understand the shit they’re going to have to cop without losing the plot.

Fans can complain, but players need to stay sane.

Soon after, the charge and fight happens. In this situation, it looked to me like Lowe and Shea Ili were the provocateurs. Lowe should have been T’d up for the drag - 36ers should be asking the NBL for a please explain. Shea escalated with coming in and pushing or pressing Trez whilst he was down.

Trez then escalated it, unsurprisingly. Stupid, dumb, stupid. There will be an apology from him and definitely a fine, surely. Deserved the double T with Shea.

Some fans then allegedly engage with the players verbally as well as allegedly physically. If that’s what happened, it’s not a good look for Melbourne as a club and the NBL as a league.

I’d like to see 1) Melbourne receive a please explain and how they will work to prevent this in future, this is their home game, it’s not good enough. Players and officials deserve space and protection from the alleged behaviour, and 2) Universal agreement across codes that when something like that happens, if the alleged behaviour is proven, the people are banned from all sporting code events in Australia, forever. These people aren’t needed, simple as that. I’m for a Zero Tolerance rule.

I also find it curious that Vickerman appears to claim the 36ers engaged with the fans without actually having a clue? Am I reading this wrong?

"Obviously we've crossed a line in the game there, where they've reacted to whatever's been said. It's something that we don't wanna see."

What is this “reacted to whatever’s been said”?!

Unless he knows something that hasn’t been put out there to public, Vickerman should also be given a please explain - you cannot be justifying the alleged fan behaviour and throwing it back at Adelaide.

Unless i read it wrong or it reads worse than it sounds - Vickerman should be getting reprimanded for that, such a dumb thing to say.

Ultimately, I’d like to see the following be held accountable or give explanations for getting it wrong today: Trez, Vickerman, Melbourne, the League.

Good post KET

You have no chance in hell of this happening the following: being held accountable or give explanations for getting it wrong today: Trez, Vickerman, Melbourne, the League.

Expect only Harrell

Nicely said KET, agree with most of that

Before anyone comments on the incident with the Sixers and courtside fans there needs to be a full investigation as to what happened and who instigated it. It's a serious incident that could have been a lot worse and full details need to be uncovered.

Zodiac, I admire how you're prepared to say something that is not popular and you do make some good points. Harrell has the capacity to be both a blessing and a curse. At worst case, he could even be seen as a liability if he can't handle his short fuse, intimidates team mates, focuses too much on himself, and can't be bothered defending. There was that shot clock violation today where he he looked up to blame someone else, and I couldn't help but think how he would give someone else a spray for doing the same thing. In saying that though, the fans love him, he brings some spark to the league, and you can't argue that he hasn't had a major hand in the majority of our wins so far. If he was an unknown import into the league, I think we'd be pretty impressed by the level of player recruited.

Kolzee, genuinely interested as to why you would not want Harrell?

Again, just felt like the same narrative today, and that was the frustrating part. It was actually quite a frustrating game to watch. Adelaide getting to within 5 late in the last, and within 20 seconds it was back out to 10 or more. Just this lack of attention to detail, and inability to defend. We can't seem to at least make life hard for our opposition when we go down away from home. At 6-5, we are still in ok shape, but our home wins have hard work too.

I think the 3 bigs is a real problem now.

It looked to me like Harrell bowled Loe over and Loe was trying more to grab onto something to cushion his fall rather than pulling Harrell down. Harrell then fell all over Loe and was already whinging to the ref whilst still lying on top of Loe, which is pretty disrespectful treating an ex-star player like a chump hence why Loe pushed him off and Ili as his longtime teammate stepped in and shoved Harrell.

I thought Harrell deserved every bit of that he's been treating a few players disrespectfully because he thinks he's king dick. Most players backdown from him I've seen Jack White and to a lesser degree Cam Oliver stand up to him and not back down.

Must admit I didn't see the incident with the fan just the end result of Harrell going wild. Regardlees if the fan didn't get physical then no excuse for Harrell blowing his top over verbal abuse. He had a very bad day and at least deserves some sort of reprimand or suspension. We'll see if the NBL have got the balls to punish their poster boy.

Zodiac, I don't think it matters to Harrell who it is though. He was known to be vocal to anyone in the NBA, even players above him in terms of talent, so it's nothing new, and not necessarily because he thinks his Kind D as you say. A complicated person, who by accounts is quite friendly and generous off the court. That does not condone any wrong doing, and would agree he deserves equal criticism.

Master Chief,

I stopped watching the NBA a number of years ago so never saw Harrell play,, but I haven't liked his attitude from the get go. Earlier in the game we were down 10 I think it was, he scored and was running back carrying on shaking his head and hyping the crowd. Such an idiot. He doesn't give a shit about wins and losses he's all about himself. He showed that emphatically today.

Loe clearly grabbed Harrell and dragged him down, hopefully the nbl will fine a few, ban the spectator. It was all highly entertaining. It's what all sports do, afl are experts, grab the publicity and move on.

Melb fan opened his mouth that's how he got involved pushed Weston DJV that’s how trez stuck up for his players , security had no idea how to stop this ,security guy in yellow no idea what to do ,how did he get his certificate,it was Newley who stepped in.

As for Video replay it’s done by Scott butler,a former referee ,who didn’t last long oncourt either ,some of his decisions are appalling ,even my 12 year old daughter,answers quicker than butler,just there for a pay packet .

I think some fans are too close to play .Need security like nba Guy in hoody did more damage and Sixer players didn’t do anything in pushing back .

Big day ,gonna be long week for NBL

Forget to mention how good Davis was again. Adelaide definetely can't say they don't have talent.

Not a good look for MU no matter how Vickerman tries to spin it

From how I saw it, Loe was going down and reached out and pulled Harrell with him. Not sure what the call is really, looked like a charge initially but does Loe get a foul as well, so a double foul? Then while Harrell was protesting, it looks like Loe inadvertently touched Harrell, he probably thought it was deliberate and that's how it started. And of course a Melbourne teammate, in this case Ili, would come in and back up the initial push and shove. And when they went to the mic'd up Harrell in the huddle afterwards, I believe he said he knew he was getting ejected because he slapped someone, that was on him.
Just imo, it was one of those situations that Harrell was trying to fire his teammates up and started a confrontation, it just went beyond a simple push and shove tech. If he slapped Ili in the head, would expect a suspension.
Now as to the spectator incident. Where were the security? Hoodie guy definitely pushed DJ, no way a fan should get that close, Hollywood seats or not. Saw a comment on social media that a racist term was used, that's what I think got Davis going but pure conjecture.
It won't be too hard to identify "fan", ban for life isn't inconceivable, but again it really could have turned really really ugly, especially with the kids sitting there. But if there's an investigation, it should start with where were security who should have been there immediately. If the boof head hoodie "fan" was verbal to Sixers bench he should have been escorted from area immediately.
Ultimately, spectator gets ban, Harrell gets a game or two if he slaps Ili and that should be the end of it. Security needs a review. Harrell will probably get a fine as well but it'll probably be less than he spent at footlocker on shoes in the NBL little promotional video.

"Hoodie guy definitely pushed DJ, no way a fan should get that close"

The Adelaide players were over the other side of the toblerone in the spectators' space. Not sure why this happened, probably just a case of players being unaware with all the other stuff going on.

Obviously some words were exchanged, not sure what led the spectator to push Vasiljevic. All that needs to be investigated.

You'd think, even if the players initiated the contact - which I didn't see on the footage - the spectator is getting a long ban. If the players are shown to have instigated the confrontation, they'll get a ban or hefty fine.

What I don't want to see is a knee-jerk reaction getting rid of those seats. For thousands of games there have been no incidents, don't let a dickhead or two ruin in, just deliver the right consequences and also make sure the players are reminded to huddle up on the court.

Mike Wells said it was Weston who the fan pushed?

https://www.instagram.com/p/DCdfJM4yqlm/

On the TV can clearly see the spectator push DJ.

Trez was miked up for the game so they should be able to hear what happened with the spectator

I have been to games in Melbourne before and thought the courtside seats were very close, some people in them had too much to drink and aggressively got right in players faces, to the point it was dangerous when players ran past.

Doesn't make it right, but I can understand why Trez in that mood would react if the crowd in front row were like I saw, particularly if they pushed a team mate in DJ and even more so if there was a racist comment as someone suggested above

In regards to the game itself, Adelaide's lack of defending the 3 in particular and poor shooting % killed any chance they had.

KD is a keeper though. If Weston hasn't already started talks to keep him, he needs to.

Pity they couldn't swap Cleveland for one of Martin or Harrell, would certainly help the D issue

I do wonder whether there's a suspension there for Trez.

In all the kerfuffle it’s honestly hard to see where the hands fly and such. I hope he didn’t land any actual blows both because we don’t want him suspended but also it’s not behaviour we want in this game.

With that said, when I first looked at social media to see what was happening I could have sworn Randall’s tweet said Trez punched Ili, but I go back and it says pushed. I don’t know if it was edited or if I’m going crazy.

With that I thought oh shit he might get suspended for a few games here. Then Olgun, I also could have sworn said punches but I go back and it says it’s open handed strikes, which I guess reflects your post Phantom. So perhaps I’m going crazy again.

In any event if that’s the case you really can’t be going around slapping people, especially when you’re such a physical beast that it looks like a man amongst boys. If there’s a one or two game suspension it’ll have to be a lesson learned and maybe hire a zen master or something for when things get dicey.

Not to further push at Vickerman, but I can’t escape this quote of his "Any time there's punches thrown and things like that, the league's gonna deal with it the right way."

A punch is a much more aggressive and consequential thing than a slap, so if Vickerman is wrong, perhaps there’s a lesson there not to be commenting like fans?

Phantom summed it up pretty well.

Ili was 3rd man in, pushed Trez and give him an earful aswell, which definitely escalated the situation.

When there was a big huddle of players, Ili and Trez were still verbally going at it, but could see Trez reach across and slap Ili. Wasn't much in it as there were a lot of bodies between them, but still made contact. Let's see how the NBL reacts, but thought Wells was composed under the circumstances and handled well in the press conference. Haven't seen Vickermans presser yet but he shouldn't be escalating further and trying to influence the NBL tribunal, like he does the refs

Great game United, good ball movement and hot shooting bamboozled the 36ers poor D. Without the Trez kryptonite, nice win

Martin and Trez both registered undisciplined plays even before the last quarter brouhaha

Interesting moment for nbl. Harrell deserves a 5 game suspension, minimum. Don't care what the circumstances are, you simply cannot push in the direction of a fan

I suspect vested interests will rule the day, he'll get a small fine and a suspended sentence or some weak BS. Purely Because it's Harrell and he's getting eyeballs on the league

Speaking of vested interests will LK fine LK, sorry United?

Just watched the instagram posted above, confirms the TV angle

Fan goes at DJ, Harrell clearly pushed in the fans direction and made contact

DJ Confronted the fan, escalated it, he deserves a fine or something but Harrell actually pushed the guy

Again, if NBL was serious Harrell doesn't play til Christmas

But we all know the NBL's not serious

What footage are you referring to?

To me the Fevola footage doesn't show anything remotely resembling that.

LOL at some of the comments above

If, after the benefit of the replay, you can't see that Harrell barrelled into Loe and Loe only grabbed him on the way down, you need go take a cold shower before you watch the next game

Tell that to Andrew Gaze?

And fair point KET- a penalty for that fan should be on the cards you can't be fronting up to players like that.

If it's as bad as it looks on face value, a life ban worth consideration

But like Harrell, the NBL probably won't do the appropriate thing there either

KET, both the TV footage and the Fevola instagram show Harrell pushing in the direction of the fan

The fan moves backwards. After watching a few more times, it's not 100% clear whether Harrell's contact was the cause. Did Harrell actually touch him? Not sure without watching more

But you simply cannot do that. You can't *attempt* to escalate physical confrontation with a fan

Anyway, it's all theoretical. Nothing will come of it.

Id rather think bball. United are better than I expected this season. Very happy with what they're producing. Depth galore, and CG hasn't slowed down. looking good.

36ers D is poor. Not sure it's championship level. Perimeter D is where their troubles start. Picked apart today.

Oh please, LV must be short sited, it would be debatable if it was a charge and as commentary said, Loe clearly pull him down. The useless tool in the front row should have stayed in his seat instead of push DJV and Adelaide person. He knew what he did and that's why he covered his face and head on his way out.

Worth noting that Davis seemed the most upset with hoodie and from memory had to be really restrained from going after him. So what set him off except for that alleged racial remark rumour.
If something along those lines were said, can understand why players were so upset. Hopefully microphone caught it all. And could explain why guy was so quick to cover himself up.

Dunkman,

FIBA rules state

"A double foul is a situation in which 2 opponents commit personal or unsportsmanlike/ disqualifying fouls on each other at approximately the same time"

Clearly Harrell committed a charge first.

Watching the slow-mo replay, Harrell appears to punch Ili in the face (very soon after Ili was "3rd man in"), before pushing Ili's face with an open palm shortly after (when Ili is under the basket after circling Harrell)

If this was a serious competition like AFL, Harrell gets multiple weeks for his initial strike or Ili, and it's harder to say because it never happens, but I'd guess a more significant penalty weeks for the fan altercation.

But again I'm not expecting that. Nobody at NBL HQ wants Harrell sidelined.

Montrezl clearly charged, and Melbourne player grabbed him so the 150kg wouldn't crush him.

Montrezl telling his team off like he is BOSS.

Clearly Montrezl's and Davis' heads are TOO BIG FOR THEM.

PULL YOUR HEAD IN. YOU ARE NOT THAT GOOD. THAT'S WHY YOU ARE PLAYING IN AUSTRALIA AND NOT THE NBA.

SUCH ARROGANCE.

To me the funniest part of this whole thing is people unironically referring to the front two seats as "Hollywood" seats or "celebrity row"

Once again no Sixers player at the press conference. They certainly turn up when they win. Weak as piss.
And watch Harrell get nothing but a fine cos the NBL is so far up his arse they need a torch. What do you think is gonna happen when you mic up a guy who loves the sound of his own voice and is a bit unstable.

Goorj hasn't turned up with a player after a loss in weeks. Rillie as well. To much anti Harrell, the man can play, look at the stats sheets. Yes he’s noisy but that’s entertaining.

I loved him...until yesterday

Noise and energy and getting the crowd involved is great. He's been awesome for the league.

But you can't punch opponents in the face or confront spectators- regardless what the spectator does or says first.

Who did he punch, you might have your sports mixed up. He also got dragged to the ground on a 50/50 decision, take your Melbourne bias eyes to reality

I quoted the rule above. It was either a charge or a double foul- depending how "approximately" is to be interpreted.

Arguably Loe's grab was inadvertent, incidental contact and to protect himself.

But it was a clear charge on Harrell first- anyone can see that. Whether you add a foul on Loe and call it a double foul is a separate issue.

Either way, Harrell charged into Loe first, with Loe in legal defensive position and taking heavy contact to the midsection. Clear as daylight.

As for punching, Harrell punched Ili in the face- 1.38:10 on Kayo- go watch the slow-mo.

Face/jaw

If Loe didn't push Trez while he was on the ground , this wouldn't have happened. If Ili hadn't have been the 3rd man in this wouldn't have happened. Blame starts there. Trez is a target now and that needs to be explained to him by management.

Agree Trez needs to control himself but he shouldn't be punished or attacked because he is bigger and stronger than most. His reaction is more the most can handle due to his size. If it was PJC in his shoes none of this would have happened.

The wanker in the hoodie needs to be banned for life along with whoever was with him. Security needs to be better in all arenas. Perth and Adelaide usually have security sitting directly behind the opposition bench. Sitting fans next to the opposition bench isnt wise and is asking for trouble.

Trez reacted to the fan pushing Westover and putting his hands on DJV. Until then it's all verbal.

QAnon these things happen regularly. A little fracas, a minor melee

Several times every season

The difference here is Harrell punched Ili. He's a hot head and should be punished accordingly. If any United player reacted with a punch to Harrell, it could've been on like Manila. One player took this too far- one player only.

As for the fan, I hope one d***head doesn't ruin it for everyone. It's a great experience sitting in those seats, and great financially for the club. Perhaps one extra security guard required in the vicinity. Worth reviewing that specifically

I should add, no one has mentioned this. But maybe Harrell should've been hit with USF for his hit on Bowen a few minutes earlier

Both Harrell and Martin committed undisciplined fouls that were borderline USF's during the 3rd quarter- both went unpunished, with only a regular foul called

If Harrell had been USF'd and sat down for a while, he might've cooled down before boiling over later

Not sure you can say it happens regularly.

Perhaps it was a punch that belonged in the Paul Tyson fight? If Trez wanted to punch someone Id think it would have some repercussions.

Like I said Loe started it, Ili continue it and Trez finished it. Gutless from both Loe and Ili

ill add I've gone looking for it but cant see Trez punching Ili. He is holding him most of the time by the singlet with his elbow up around his neck accordingly. Id say he was too close to punch or had too many people between him and Ili to land a punch but lets see what the genius shadow men at the NBL tribunal have to say.

Martin was called for a USF on Bowen at 4:09 in the 3rd. It was only Harrell's foul on Bowen that was a personal foul.

OK thanks Sebastian, I stand corrected on Martin's foul

QAnon it's 1:38:10, looks like a punch.

It absolutely happens regularly but there's a difference between a push to the body (what Harrell did to Loe and what Ili subsequently did to Harrell), which is totally normal, compared to striking the face- what Harrell did

As I said a few times, Harrell's driving interest in the NBL so the punishment unlikely to fit the crime.

Punishment/s unlikely to fit *any of* the crimes, I should say

Harrell would have stayed on his feet if Loe had not grabbed him and pulled him to the floor, forget the rule that decision could have gone either way, like a lot charge, block calls. It all started with Loe, firstly pulling him down, then pushing Harrell while he was on the floor, Harrell started mouthing of, pushing and shoving from both sides and Illi charging in and then united supporters got involved. If Harrel goes for suspension then Loe and Illi should as well, but we all know who owns Melbourne. Take the good media coverage and move with fines to the three above.

Maybe LV more a Rick James move IMO at worst , what did the 5 fingers say to the face!

The NBL will need to look at who instigated (Loe) who escalated (Ili) and who retaliated (Harrell) Ili in the most trouble Id say, then Loe then Trez

United will have questions on them as an organisation. Barlow to be fined for leaving the bench, security breaches etc etc

You could also argue a lot goes on the refs for not properly controlling the game prior, you could tell it was getting out of control. I was surprised Harrell didn't get an USF on that Bowen play - as much as Bowen was being a tool by deliberately changing his line to run in front of him.

Loe was regularly setting illegal picks that weren’t called, that one Wells got the tech on was one of the most obvious missed calls - there was no way the refs didn’t see it, they just chose not to call it. Clean that play up earlier and I doubt they lose control of the game like they did.

"Maybe LV more a Rick James move IMO at worst , what did the 5 fingers say to the face!"

Great call Q Anon, I was literally thinking exactly the same thing haha.

You guys are joking if you think Ili and Loe deserve same or more punishment

Can only assume you don't watch much sport.

If this is AFL, Harrell gets 2 weeks for striking, Ili and Loe get a fine for unduly rough play. You don't get suspended for a push and shove

You also need to watch again- there was *also* an open hand in Ilis face but that was a few seconds later- I explained above:

"Harrell appears to punch Ili in the face (very soon after Ili was "3rd man in"), before pushing Ili's face with an open palm shortly after (when Ili is under the basket after circling Harrell)"

Huh?

Harrell was on the ground when he was shoved by Ili

You get fined and suspended for starting and escalating situations - both those things happened at the hands of United players.

Give me one example of a professional basketball player getting suspended for pushing someone in the chest in one of these melees and doing nothing else.

It doesn't happen.

Same in AFL.

You have to strike somebody, and/or make contact with their face, for the incident to be worthy of suspension. A push and a strike are different things

Yes harrell was on the ground, he got up and hit Ili in the face

The fracas continued, Ili was separated but the group of players circled, Ili ended up doing a 270 degrees around Harrell, this time Harrell got him with an open palm to the face. "Look at the hand" move.

The strike to the face was shortly after Harrell got off the floor

Go watch it again

Absolutely nailed it Uncle Phil. Bowen moved into Harrell's area intentionally to niggle and chaos ensued. Harrell was an idiot for reacting like that, but it was always going to happen.

Most of this ties in with how Melbourne play. Absolute masters of illegal defending, they must practice the sh*t out of it. Was saying to a mate that I love Delly, but he uses an arm to push/guide players as they drive and it is seldom called. The Goulding foul was also a classic case. Left arm/hand impeding the driver, knee also into the driver and when Davis hooked an arm as he was being pushed out of bounds, anyone associated with MU expected an offensive foul call. They are so good at doing it at an angle that is difficult for a ref to see.

Sport in general want a free flowing game, especially the NBL as it is more attractive to watch. More whistles means less flow, so teams get away with murder as the refs won’t call everything. How about calling more of the illegal guarding instead of the dumb fouls when breathing in the same post code as a shooter? Would stop the holding/scragging in a heartbeat.

Take the rose coloured glasses of LV, I've watched it again, I just don’t see Harrell hitting anyone. Bowen was smart, I’m not certain what Harrell could do, yes he got a little dirty in the retaliation but Bowen just moved in front of him.

Keep watching

Use slow mo

Harrell's fist connects with Ili's jaw. Definitely.

Kayo timestamps:

1:38:10 fist
1:38:19 palm

Later they replay the footage.

Fist is 1:39:01

Harell definitely struck Ili. No a lot of force behind it but made contact.

It's not a punch though at 138:10, if anything is a bit more of a poke/shove that grazes Ili’s face, definitely not a swing. To call that a punch is very much sensationalising it.

Call it whatever you want, poke, jab

there is a fist connecting with a face

In modern sport when a fist connects with a face, multiple week suspensions ensue. As it should be.

My prediction is NBL goes the weak-as-water approach and gives him 1 game with another suspended for the Ili strike

The fan thing, not sure.

Interesting to observe that this game has got people talking for the first time all year, combined with Batemon's 50 piece is it safe to call the Sunday of Round 9, NBL25, the biggest regular-season day in recent NBL?

It barely connects and is hardly a fist, stating it is worth a multiple week suspension is ridiculous.

Having said that, knowing Ili's concussion history, I’m glad he didn’t actually get a significant blow - probably a reason for him to be a bit more cautious before being 3rd man in in the future.

Guessing you don't watch much other sport Phil

This is AFL, definite suspension for Harrell

The full TV replay of the fan incident bodes poorly for Harrell too

Before the fan stands up and pushes Weston, the fan is seated while Harrell stands over him. Weston is in between and attempting to push Harrell back.

A serious league like AFL would deal with Harrell by issuing a lengthy suspension. Hope NBL has the balls to do likewise.

Ili is telling people no one hit him so there is that

Harell has openly said he was telling the fan not to say things non basketball and he didnt comply. Are you expecting Harrell to just take being abused in the absence of security or is it ok for him to answer back?

Let's just say the fans arent the types who like attention and this hasn't worked out well for them.

Harrell sure can give it.

Gets interesting when he has to take it?

Harrell already apologised to his team mates for slapping Ili. The second more looks like an eye gouge attempt

I don't understand why people expect LV to be anything less than evangelical in view. Incensed Melbourne fan gives pro-Melbourne view, what a shock.

The view is in contrast to Olgun, Randall, Gaze, and almost all of us here - a mixture of various clubs’ fans.

The footage is just wayyyy too unclear to make such confident assertions. Despite this, LV seems to view things clear as day.

I think that suggests that one is over confident and not the rest are blind. But I think the bias will find that conclusion unpalatable for LV.

I look forward to being told how the rest of us who *didn’t* draw confident conclusions are biased and wrong though.

Update:
" All relevant matters that arose from yesterday's Melbourne United v Adelaide 36ers game at John Cain Arena have been referred to the NBL’s Game Review Panel (GRP).

Requests for submissions have been sent to both Melbourne (Shea Ili and David Barlow) and Adelaide (Montrezl Harrell and Kendric Davis) in relation to yesterday’s incidents. All parties have until 6pm tomorrow to make submissions."

The footage is the footage KET- I've watched it 15 times. Are you denying that Harrell's fist makes contact with Ili's face?

Of course Ili said he wasn't hit. That's exactly what you'd expect an old school, hard nosed competitor to say

But, to paraphrase the late great Homicide. Men lie, women lie, the footage don't.

All these comparisons with the AFL ... Problem is, the AFL doesn't market itself as a non-contact sport or have as one of the two underlying principles that there should be no deliberate overly-physical contact.

What happens in the AFL, where contact is encouraged, isn’t that relevant to deciding what should happen here.


Having said that, I agree with those of you who reckon that the NBL marketing machine has too much invested in Harrell and United to hand out any significant penalties. Talk about a conflict of interest!

LV - I like what you bring but Ili pushed Harell first- fact

Ili is telling people he wasn't hit in the face - fact

Barlow will be fined for leaving the bench

Trez will have to explain himself and will get a one match ban suspended with a decent fine.

Ili will get a fine

The post above from KET really only related to the on court stuff. The players will have nothing to answer about the fan interactions as all blame is on the fans. The NBL is trying their best to find the "hoodie" fan but the MU ticket holder who invited him seems to have forgotten his name and cant help.

But Hoopie, what punishment does United deserve?

Other than perhaps

- a fine for Ili exacerbating the melee

- A fine for Vickerman and Barlow leaving the bench (even though they were de-escalating rather than shoving anyone)

And the courtside security At JCA could use a review (which is JCA issue not United specifically, who are merely tenants. I assume the building provides security and that aspect of the contract is ticked off by NBL to meet standards)

What other penalty could United deserve?

Is head coach allowed to leave the bench but not assistant- is that why Vickerman wasn't cited? Wells also arrived late in the piece

Great performance from United. Really stepped it up defensively, the off ball help defence was elite all game, with no drop off with the bench. Liked seeing Delly face guard DJV, didn't give him a look all game. Cameron is playing with incredible poise, intense on defence and starting to be a genuine scoring option, great to see.

Thought Harrell completely overreacted. Loe isn't the most coordinated, took the charge then grabbed as he fell, nothing in it.

Vickerman and One assistant were already on court, Barlow then entered the court. Despite his good intentions he should have been ejected and T'd up. Thats the rule. Head coach and one assistant only.

Barlow will be fined

United also have the issue of their MC - a known league issue for years that seems to be glossed over as he is mates with Gaze. That guy needs to get in the bin.

Then there is the deeper issue of having alleged known nefarious people sitting court side with access to players. United need to have a long hard look at themselves, which of course wont happen

K thanks for clarifying for coaches

Essendon footy club had a convicted murderer (manslaughter) with underworld connections in their rooms this year

That crosses a line, and Essendon was rightly criticised for it

But not sure United should be pre-emptively profiling people and banning them from merely purchasing courtside seats, that seems over the top and an intrusion on the liberty of those individuals.

Gonna be a long week with submissions and reviews.....Lucky we have FIBA break

My theory is that ili ,Harrell be fined .

Fan and his mate be banned from basketball, Sixers have no case as those we're protecting
The likes of Weston and DJV who were pushed hard by the fan and trez was only protecting his players .

Sixers v United game in Adelaide gonna be a fiery one .can’t wait to hear boo on Loe ,he started everything with a small nudge on trez .

Vickerman and One assistant were already on court, Barlow then entered the court. Despite his good intentions he should have been ejected and T'd up. Thats the rule. Head coach and one assistant only.

"Are you denying that Harrell's fist makes contact with Ili's face?"

“In all the kerfuffle it's honestly hard to see where the hands fly and such. I hope he didn’t land any actual blows”
“The footage is just wayyyy too unclear”

LV, I’m curious what part of that leads you to ask if I hold a decisive view? What is the particular part of the English language you are leveraging to read that as anything remotely decisive?

It’s all very confusing how you managed to draw a potential conclusion of “I’m denying there was a punch” out of “the footage is unclear and hard to see”.

"The footage is the footage KET- I've watched it 15 times"

Yeah the footage is the footage - Olgun says open hand strike (ie not a punch) and Randall says a push (ie not a punch) What footage are you seeing that's different?

How do you reconcile that logically? Either they have the same info as you or more info.

I understand watching it a few times, but what did you gain the next 10 times exactly?

If someone tells me they’ve met Jesus once, I’m not really going to be anymore convinced then if they tell me they’ve met Jesus 15 times...

If you’re right it’s not because the footage is clear, it’s because they have more info than we have and even a broken clock is right twice a day.

"Great performance from United. Really stepped it up defensively, the off ball help defence was elite all game."

I actually thought Melbourne struggled defensively. Guarded the arc well but couldn't defend the paint without fouling. They were awesome at the other end though, exposing a team with very little in the way of standards defensively.

Both happened- there was a fist to the face and later a palm to the face

I've posted the timestamps above (although they're different in Kayo on TV vs mobile)

It's possible there's higher definition footage floating around.

It's also Olgun has seen separate NBL angles that weren't available on TV. That occured in the NRL Grand Final where journos were shown bunker footage immediately post match, to avoid stoking controversy after TV footage made it appear the decision was wrong.

But based on publicly available footage, Harrell's knuckles connect with Ilis face. The fist may not have been completely closed (it's hard to be 100% sure) but it was definite contact of knuckles to face

Until NBL releases footage showing otherwise, that's all we can say

Agreed Mouse- United was in serious foul trouble. They couldn't defend Harrell without fouling.

It's certainly an inconvenient fact for those complaining about United getting away with fouls, that they were called for 26 of them with Adelaide shooting 37 free throws

Since you didn't answer, do I take it you withdraw your question for me?

I’m curious, aside from LV and without drawing inferences on what can’t be seen or obstructed, how many people here can clearly visually see Trez strike a punch in the footage?

I’d be interested to see how blind I am.

Getting reported that it was a racial slur that ignited the sideline altercation. Unbelievable in this day and age that it can happen in public like that, plenty of idiots that hide behind social media anonymity have already said things about Harrell, but this is really unbelievable. I'm sure there'll be a lot saying it still shouldn't incite physical violence, but that over steps the line and they should get a punch in the face. Which is not what Ili got, was a smack, not a full blown punch. And for that Harrell should get a couple of games if Gillespie got one for a little love tap as well, and maybe a couple suspended to add further deterrence.
As for Barlow getting ejected, that's just a stupid rule. I know it's really geared to prevent half a dozen assistants running in and making it more crowded and may incite things further depending on the temperament of those AC. But he was clearly trying to calm things down and common sense should prevail, which it did directly afterwards by not getting ejected, but unfortunately common sense isn't so common, so can see a fine going to United. Maybe that could be offset with Newley doing the job of security and attempting to settle down the spectator fracas. Should be a please explain into what happened there, woefully inadequate and could have been a lot worse with those kids in immediate vicinity.

So in the end, Harrell 2 games plus fine with another 1 or 2 suspended. Ili at most a small fine, he hardly came in swinging and someone had to stick up for their teammate. And if he says he wasn't punched then that should be taken into account, clearly contact was made but negligible. If it had been a punch then Harrell to get 4 more games, despite being a goldmine for NBL so far. Even in the heat of the moment he said he slapped him, not hit or punched. Barlow should get a warning at most based on intent.
As for banning "nefarious" people by clubs, how will that work? Will spectators need to provide a police check when purchasing tickets? As long as they're not conducting themselves improperly during game then they've got a right as much as anyone to attend events. Carry on like this moron then certainly ban them.

"There is also footage circulating around the game that shows Harrell using a closed fist to punch Ili.

A source told Code Sports the Sixers would fight any allegation Harrell threw a punch amid growing tensions between the two clubs over the two incidents."

What's the footage?

Certain people out west are loving this distraction.

All these comparisons with the AFL ...

Without knowing what ACTUALLY happened, and not knowing the FIBA refs and NBL precedents well enough, and based on the comments above, and not taking what any of the players say as gospel

I would see the following as appropriate
- the security gets a rocket up their a**e, it needs to be greatly improved at all venues, and the guy/s who didn't do their jobs should be sacked
- the fan/S who were involved in the business should be banned for 5 years from all sports, not just bb, on the basis he/they could 'strike’ again (even though other sports will definitely not support such a drastic action)
- Loe for his part in it should get at least 2 weeks off, with the possibility of 1 suspended
- Illi for entering the melee should get 2 weeks, no option for suspension
- Barlow for entering should get the same
- Harrell for all that happened should get 4 weeks and have to do anger management counselling, no option for suspension
- United as a club should be fined minimum $50k

Fines for players are a waste of time - donors would be queueing up to pay, if it keeps the key players on court. Unless the fines are a minimum 10% of the player’s salary, they’ll do nothing to change the behaviour.

Imho. Lol

Things that aren't going to happen.

Sorry, what did Loe do to get suspended?

Only 1 player is going to MRP

I'd imagine the only player that could face suspension is Trez

I wouldn’t be counting on him being available next game that’s for sure

In the Tiser this morning
-------------

Officials identify ejected season ticket holder as claim of alleged racial slur provoked brawl

It comes as another fan is alleged to have used racial abuse that sparked the mayhem at John Cain Arena.
It's understood Adelaide officials weren’t aware of an alleged racist remark from a fan and it wasn’t part of the club’s submission to the NBL.
The claims that a 36ers player was racially abused during the chaos comes as it can be revealed NBL CEO Dave Stevenson was entertaining Channel 7 Head of Network Sport Chris Jones and his young family at the game, as basketball prepares to enter multi-million dollar broadcast negotiations

As revealed by Code Sports, the physical altercation was sparked with Adelaide players after crowd members were verbally baiting 36ers star Montrezl Harrell in the opening minutes of the fourth quarter.
"Trez got up and they were swearing at him. He was incited, 'That’s why you’re not in the NBA, you’ve got a f***ing s*** attitude’," another source told Code Sports.
“The guy’s coming back from an ACL, that’s why he’s not in the NBA, he’s played eight years and he was a Sixth Man of the Year.
“Come on mate, you’re just a bloke sitting in the front row.”

Tempers reach breaking point when Adelaide import guard Kendric Davis approached Ibrahim and the man wearing the hoodie.
Code Sports has been told by sources that an unidentified man allegedly told Davis to: “Sit your black ass down on the bench”.
It is not alleged that Ibrahim made the comment.
The clearly upset guard replied: “Shut the f@#k up” and he was allegedly pushed by the man and then held back by teammates.
Ibrahim is also seen verbally engaging with Adelaide players.
36ers sharpshooter Dejan Vasiljevic also rushes in to protect his teammates and is pushed as tensions explode.
Venue management, United officials and former NBL star Brad Newley played a key role in stopping the pushing before four fans - including Ibrahim and the man wearing the hoodie - were ejected.
Davis could also be in hot water for allegedly making contact with a fan.

Harrell needs to learn to not react to something like that in egotisical way when coming from a spectator during a game, but it's really not the business of anyone else to tell African American players how to feel or react when racist/hurtful abuse in inolved. I hope those pretentios tossers are banned for life and publicly shamed (if true).

There is a screenshot going around on X/Twitter that was captured by someone from the Instagram of Harrell reading "Do I come back to Australia" (undecided emoji).

What are the implications for this? I doubt it would sit well with the club even if just to spur on fans. Has he had enough of the league already because of the incident?

Just saw footage of some of the fan altercation. Weston and Vasiljevic are right next to the fans, Weston gets pushed over to the court side of the toblerone by the fan in the hoodie, so does Vasiljevic, then Harell strikes out at the fan.

Thankfully at that point Nik Popovic in particular does a brilliant job of separating the two parties, while Michael Lake and possibly Ben Griscti hold back Davis who tries to fly in from the back, stopping it from escalating into something you'd see at the Palace of Auburn Hills.

What's the NBL record for 3 pointers in a game by a team?

United can't have been far off it

With CG, and a whole team full of 3 point threats, they'll be a chance of breaking that record this season, whatever it is

Mouse

Watch the TV coverage and note what's occurring *before* the incident between Weston, DJV and the Fan.

It's shown briefly on the telecast

Harrell is standing up, leaning towards the fan and mouthing off. Weston is standing in between. At that point the fan is still seated. Harrell is towering over them

It's *after that* where the fan stands up and physically confronts Weston and DJV

So the interesting takeaways are

1. It was a verbal altercation between Harrell and the fan which started the whole incident

2. Harrell stepped in the fans direction and stood over the fan while the fan was still seated.

Of course, on face value this fan deserves a LONG ban (years not months) especially if racism is involved

But I don't understand how anyone can watch this and suggest Harrell doesn't deserve a significant suspension

Sorry take part of that back- the fan may already be standing up (Harrell is so much bigger and is looking down, so that when I initially watched it, it was hard to see the fan who's much shorter and obscured by Harrell)

But regardless what specific moment that fan stood up, it doesn't change the basic fact that Harrell stepped over the Tire-Power sign, into the fan area, to escalate the verbal confrontation and had to be held back by Weston.

The timing is not clear to me
I think Montrezl was not that close at this time
But the advertiser article has a photo
Where hoodie man is clearly standing up in the background
Clearly shows his face also interestingly

Do you think that Harell just randomly started to talk to them? Of course not.

The players and the coaches have to walk past these people to get to the court ,the fans are in the players area, don't twist it around. Melbourne United have a duty of care to make sure the people in these seats are of high standing. These people aren't. Having known underworld figures ( allegedly) sitting court side is a very very bad look for the league.

The rumours circulating that these are business partners or colleagues of the league owner makes it even worse.

For some reason you are guessing at what happened. It's been quoted as to what was said by some of the people that got ejected and it's indefensible.

Harrell post now reported in the media. This club just cannot stay out of headlines or controversy.

Harrell-gate = the gift that keeps on giving LOL

QAnon I used to sit on the scorebench in the Cage days. Even then, there were courtside seats literally a metre from coaches of both teams. This isn't unique to United.

Fans routinely talk at players. Even the corporates- who are often a few beers deep by tip off.

What you can't do is walk over the signage into the fan zone. Under any circumstances

As I said, presumably JCA provides security and the NBL ticks off the contract to ensure it meets guidelines.

Of course, the fan should be dealt with appropriately.

But no way should Harrell get off scot free. Suggesting otherwise is laughable.

It is surprising the fan can get into a verbal and physical altercation with players/officials and is then allowed to slowly saunter off with security seeming not to care at all.

Does anyone here suggest Trez get off Scot free?

Can't see it mentioned anywhere else, but was Loe actually in a legal defensive guarding position, looks like his foot was on the no charge circle when Trez makes contact, thus it shouldn't have been a charge call?

Also to those suggesting Loe grabbed hold of Trez when falling to cushion his fall or stop being crushed, I think I would be pushing someone who's 150 kgs away from me not pulling onto me if we were falling to the ground!

@LV I dint say it is unique to United. What may be unique to them is the quality of the people that they place in that situation. The fans are effectively sitting on the bench of the opposition team.

If these guys are known underworld characters then United should be held accountable for their actions and allowing them to be in this area. Monica Seles springs to mind.

Go and have a look at how the bench set up is , the players and coaches have to walk past these people to do their jobs. They aren't entering the fans space , the fans are in the players space. The coaches are coaching in front of them. Cant help you if you think otherwise.

Harrell was not an airborne player attempting to pass or shoot so the no charge circle is not relevant on this play.

"Do you think that Harell just randomly started to talk to them? Of course not. The players and the coaches have to walk past these people to get to the court ,the fans are in the players area, don't twist it around."

You seem to be making big assumptions here. It's possible something beyond the line was said that provoked a reaction, but it's also possible Harell over-reacted to some normal banter from fans. We just don't know until more information is revealed.

Other stadiums (with the exception of New Zealand) have a full height advertisement board in front of the equivalent of those seats, that acts as a barrier.

I see Harell was miked up for the game, so that should certainly help the NBL get to the bottom of it.

My point Anonymighgtmouse is that Harrell most definitely was engaged by the fan and not the other way around. He is on record as saying he told the people to stick to commentating on basketball and not off court things or words to that effect. Once that was done he walked away as can be seen in the multiple videos. Only when the people touched Weston and DJV did he go back in.

What a surprise to see another racial incident from United fans!!!

Not like their own announcer hasn't been suspended multiple times for inappropriate comments.

No, Harell was engaged with the fans at the time the pushing took place, Popovic was actively working to keep him out of it. He hadn't walked away. The good news he's miked up so there won't be a lot of mystery in the investigation.

If you are at a JJs home game and abuse a player, coach or ref (including throwing your clapper in their general direction (remember that one at the Silverdome) then you are out of there and will probably have your membership cancelled. This extends to guests of members that have been given seats for the game. It is like golf clubs and the MCC etc. where you are responsible for your guests. When you love the club and your sport that is enough to make sure everyone behaves appropriately. This has been clearly stated in club comms to members. Everyone understands that and despite the high spirits you see from the crowd on the broadcast there is no crossing of the line. That is obviously something for each club to set and manage and if implemented you probably don't get these incidents no matter what proximity the fans are to the opposition bench etc. NB: I have no idea what the rules are at United home games.

Sports fans are routinely banned for life, it happens all the time and, following investigation, may happen to hoodie bloke

However, many commenters above seem to be glossing over a crucial point via making excuses for Harrell

Point is it doesn't actually matter what the fan said

Even if the fan said something highly inflammatory and offensive about Harell's family or race. Or whatever. In that case, a long ban would obviously be appropriate for the fan. Maybe life

But it wouldn't excuse Harrell entering the fan area to escalate the situation. That can't happen, that can't be swept under the rug. Regardless of other circumstances.

Players must keep away from fans (and vice versa of course)

LV, I would be surprised if there isn't a league or club code of conduct for players that makes it plainly clear that is not on. Apart from ensuring an OH&S safe workplace, there is also brand to protect and that is very important for clubs and the NBL.

LV being challenged by facts

The fans are in the player and coaches work space , not the other way around

Just on Ten News the 36ers are submitting to the investigation homophobic and racial abuse from the fans directed at Isaac Humphries and Kendric Davis and incictement of the crowd by United's court announcer.

To be honest I'm surprised that Tigers/United court announcer is still allowed to work games given his lengthy history.

Accepting a justifiable cause defence would be a very slippery slope for the NBL. If there are no suspensions then with justifiable cause a player can engage in an altercation with a fan without fear of suspension. The NBLs hands would therefore seem tied. But who knows, last year without justifiable cause you were allowed to strike another player to the torso on more than one occasion but you were not allowed to brace for collision when someone deliberately moved into your lane. Would also be good if the NBL let the fans know what charges players and clubs are facing before the verdicts and suspensions like the AFL does.

lol first thing I mentioned was the announcer - how have United not found someone better by now?

I would argue mitigating factors for the players reaction to spectator comments. The usual boos and you suck are part and parcel of being a professional athlete. A good Yo Mamma insult can be viewed as a bit of banter as long as it doesn't go too far or specifically targeting a real person if that makes sense.
But if some random feral comes to my workplace and makes a specific threat, racial/sexual comment to me or my family, then I'm going to confront them. Not throwing a punch, but getting in their face is an instinct a lot of people would do. If a punch is thrown then accept the charge and it will go in front of a court where it will be heard, not excused, but given weight as to the reason for the assault.
If any of the players threw a punch, apart from criminal charges, then a lengthy ban is justified. But in the heat of the moment, most would react the same way even if it was a bit of bravado, a push or chest bump which in this case was all that happened. If Harrell really wanted to go after these guys do you think he could have been held back? Yes, a please explain needs to happen and it sounds like Adelaide have given a submission as to why it escalated. I'm not saying those players involved should get a medal, but have the right to express what led them to their anger and response to totally unacceptable comments. Plenty was said about Tatum playing the race card with his comments not long ago. Yet now a racist comment being made (I think it's beyond a rumour now), there should be no outrage? Just they should have turned the other cheek and pointed them out to the invisible security?
So the right thing would be to hear the submissions put forward by the Adelaide players and staff that were involved. And the league commentating that it does not condone the behaviour, that it accepts the submissions made and then make a statement about crowd behaviour. Certainly don't crucify Harrell and Davis's reaction. Give them the opportunity to make statements now things have calmed down.
If there are sanctions handed down I wouldn't blame Harrell walking and the league getting a reputation for not supporting their players for being racially vilified.
And it's not like Harrell needs to stay, probably in his best interests to leave, no doubt teams have been watching his play and he'd get a better contract elsewhere.
So for those wanting to throw the book at them, put yourself in that situation. If you were a person of colour and someone made a racist comment to you, would you react, or would you walk away. And by reacting, I'm not saying assault, but to confront a racist piece of crap.
End rant!

"Even if the fan said something highly inflammatory and offensive about Harell's family or race. Or whatever. In that case, a long ban would obviously be appropriate for the fan. Maybe life

But it wouldn't excuse Harrell entering the fan area to escalate the situation. That can't happen, that can't be swept under the rug. Regardless of other circumstances."

This sums it up in a nutshell. No winners out of this.

Although I suspect the NBL is enjoying the publicity, they love a bit of controversy to get a bit of extra exposure even though they play lawmaker handing out fines and suspensions.

Interestingly the Overtime crew think Harrell, Davis and DJV are all derseving of suspensions, in Harrell's case a big one and the complications those suspensions could have on the 36ers season.

I had my say on Harrell during the game but it wouldn't bother me too much if he doesn't return from his trip home to the US.

I think we will see a fairly hefty suspension for Harrell by the sounds, Olgun changed his reporting on this a bit (a lot?)

It's a shitshow of a situation - it’s awkward for the NBL and both 36ers and United look really really bad because both clubs fked up.

Obviously something bad was said to Davis as you could see he was really fired up. I'm kind of the opinion that no matter what was said the players kind of have to take the high road, walk away, get the refs and get the nut jobs thrown out. Its a lot easier said then done but you can't have the two sides physically interacting. Hope Harrell does come back, but think someone has to get a game or two really just from a PR point of view.

Harrell gets long term suspension, it's curtains to Sixers. It’s also a big loss to the league. The man is an entertainer plus can play.

FFS, entering the fan area? He was within a metre of the sideline straddling signage that an arthritic cocker spaniel could jump over. It wasn't like Artest in Detroit going into the stands in pursuit. If anything the spectators came closer to the bench aggravating the situation.
He gets a game or two for slapping Ili in the head.

This should go down for what it is. Another Scott Butler catastrophe. He got the review wrong, missed Barlow which should have resulted in a free throw for Adelaide. Instead it gave Melb the momentum.

"both 36ers and United look really really bad because both clubs fked up."

People keep saying United as a club did something wrong but no one said what

The courtsude setup would be identical aa Phoenix, and many teams have spectators equally close.

The security arrangements would be ticked off by NBL from a compliance perspective.

So what are United supposed to have done wrong?

I don't even think the 36ers as a club are too blame wither. They've recruited some passionate characters and 3 of them remonstrated with a fan- which is an absolute no-go but you can't really begrudge them that, and the senior people from the club- Wells and even Weston- acted with a cool head.

Yeah that footage on overtime at the start shows Trez punching him, that's a 3-4 game suspension IMO

I mean, you can't blame the 36ers for recruiting Harrell and Davis. They're passionate and fiery and don't have a chequered history or anything, far as I'm aware

"Yeah that footage on overtime at the start shows Trez punching him, that's a 3-4 game suspension IMO"

You mean the footage I continually referred to above, before you tried to argue the point?

"People keep saying United as a club did something wrong but no one said what"

Nah you can't have a fan-player engagement and not look into it, if you’re going to have court side fans, you need an appropriate amount of security to handle it. I’m with Kane Pittman on that.

Obviously the mention re the announcer is a United club issue too.

Now that we've got the higher definition footage which definitively confirms what it already looked like, where are the people who said it wasn't necessarily a punch?

Where have you gone?

Oh but Ili said he wasn't hit!? Lo

Men lie, women lie, the footage don't.

As I said a couple of days ago.

Lol*

I now see what you have referenced LV re Harell and Ili

But KET who employs the security guards?

And who is ticking off security arrangements?

I'd suggest the answers are JCA and the NBL.

Meaning it's really on the NBL to conduct this security review. Which I agree would be helpful after an incident like this.

I doubt United would be directly paying the security company. It's probably encompassed within their venue hire fee. And the NBL's legal people would be reviewing the United- JCA contract.

Could be wrong, but I imagine that's how it works.

Cheers QAnon

"You mean the footage I continually referred to above, before you tried to argue the point?"

No, not that footage!!

Argue the point is a bit rich, you seem to do this thing where you don't read what people are saying and start arguing against what they didn’t convey.

Case in point how you read “the footage is unclear” as needing to ask me if I was “denying there was a punch”

You did not reply after that. Why? Seemed an obvious “sorry I misunderstood” moment.

Now be your honest self, did you ever read the below?

“In all the kerfuffle it’s honestly hard to see where the hands fly and such. I hope he didn’t land any actual blows both because we don’t want him suspended but also it’s not behaviour we want in this game.

With that said, when I first looked at social media to see what was happening I could have sworn Randall’s tweet said Trez punched Ili, but I go back and it says pushed. I don’t know if it was edited or if I’m going crazy.

With that I thought oh shit he might get suspended for a few games here. Then Olgun, I also could have sworn said punches but I go back and it says it’s open handed strikes, which I guess reflects your post Phantom. So perhaps I’m going crazy again.”

"where are the people who said it wasn't necessarily a punch?"

Who? Olgun? Randall?

Go harass them on Twitter

What footage? The same footage I timestamped 3 or 4 times above (although the timestamps are different on Kayo mobile vs Kayo TV)

As I said time and again above, Harrell's fist connected with Ili's face

You tried to argue this point by mentioning that Olgun, Randall, Gaze had provided conflicted commentary on the nature of the hit (as if that was relevant somehow- when the footage was there, publicly available for your own perusal at any time)

Other people mentioned the equally irrelevant point that Ili claimed he wasnt hit. As if that hasn't been the standard response by competitive guys like Ili since time immemorial.

Overtime has now played the *exact same* footage in slightly higher definition, and it confirms what already looked pretty obvious- that Harrell punches Ili (or call it a jab if you want to be a pedantic boxing connoisseur) and his knuckles connect with Ili's face

The home team has game day staff that implement the NBL rules and guidelines.

The hosting stadium is the ones usually supplying the contractors such as security , door staff , food and beverage staff and so on. You hire the building turn key for your event.

This is why musicians travel with their own security entourage , to ensure the musicians standards are upheld not the venues.

Nobody said "he did not punch", most people said “we can't see it clearly”

Then better footage comes out, and people say “now we see it”.

You’re too busy getting on a high horse to see that and go “actually, fair”.

Didn’t the sheer amount of people not going “yeah that’s a clear punch” at the beginning give you any indication at all that there’s a fair point being made?

You just sort of neglected that logic?

That makes sense QAnon. So United may have some kind of overview, logistics, operational type role, working in conjunction with venue security to ensure everything runs according to plan.

KET, it's funny you always accuse me of Melbourne bias. Yet here we have proof of Adelaide bias on your part- refusing to accept what the footage showed until the last possible second when you had absolutely no possible refutation and all ridiculous, outlandish, far fetched counter arguments had been taken away from you.

Stop being a pedant KET. "Punch" or "jab" or "poke" was irrelevant- again, as I said before the Overtime episode.

It was clear that Harrell's fist (entirely closed or otherwise) connected with Ili's face.

Knuckles made contact with jaw. That was clearer than daylight. Before last night.

Meaning any talk of "slapping" or whatever was irrelevant.

The OG lower definition footage showed clearly it was a fist with knuckles making a connection. Not an open hand slap.

I haven't seen the high def footage LV but will have a look tonight as I haven’t watched NBL overtime yet. Mind you, I apparently don’t watch a lot of sport so will see if I get to it ;-).

This is dragging on a bit in terms of getting an outcome, I know the fiba break essentially gives them more time but surely we should have heard more from the league than we have thus far.

The whole incident with the fans does bring up an interesting question, what is a reasonable reaction for players when completely unacceptable racial and homophobic comments are made to them? Keep in mind mid-game, players are going to have a fair bit of adrenaline flowing potentially heightening the likelihood of an aggressive reaction. I know I wouldn’t be confident of controlling myself in that situation.

In terms of where United are at fault for the incident with the fans - it sounds like the court announcer was a big issue (apparently inciting the crowd) which would be their direct responsibility I would have thought. He needs to be given his marching orders and should never have been allowed to remain in the position as long as he has by the sounds of it.

Yes yes LV, all of us are bias because you don't agree with us. Randall is biased, Olgun is biased, Gaze is biased, all the people you argued against in here are biased.

For the third time, how did you read "the footage is unclear" as needing to ask if there was “denying a punch”?

You seem to stubbornly refuse to answer the question, mostly because it proves my point that you’re arguing against what people *aren’t* saying.

KET your posts #846, #928, #929 are what I'm referring to. You obsess over the views of Olgun, you criticise Vickerman for commenting and imply the strong possibility it was a "slap" (even though Vickerman was standing 3 metres away in real time), and on you went. You were grasping for any possible hope it wasn't too serious. Even admitted to searching social media, then latching onto the optimistic views of various commenters.

Ultimately you're missing the point KET that the wording is irrelevant. Fist, puinch, etc.

I realise you're a lawyer, and arguing over the specific definitions of key words is important to you. But don't miss the forest by focusing on the trees.

The big picture was that fist/knuckles connected with jaw. It was a hit of some description, with knuckles making the connection. It was definitively, clearly, 100% obviously not an open hand slap based on the OG footage. An open hand push came later- and perhaps that's where the social media confusion originated from. I suggested that at the time.

In this day and age, with concussion being such a big issue (Ili knows all about that unfortunately), and protecting the head being sacrosanct. Any kind of knuckle connection like that- regardless of the degree of force- needs significant punishment.

Glad you've recognised thats what occured- once you were forced to.

I don't think Harrell will come back if he is suspended for a reasonable amount of time. The NBL is between a rock and a hard place here.

Alright guns down because nobody cares about who I am or what I do, and if you take issue with it or have a chip on your shoulder that's fine but it doesn’t achieve anything IMO. I don’t think your demeanour is any more pleasant than mine, nor do I think you’re any less stubborn or biased - so I think that approach is better left untouched, it doesn’t bode well for either of us.

My take, prior to the waters getting muddied, was that simply the footage I, and obviously others here saw, was a very messy unclear footage in my and others’ view. Myself and others waited for clearer footage to be "forced" as you say, to come to a clear conclusion.

Obviously, I don’t take issue with my approach. Clearly, you take issue with that and disagreed and saw things more clearly at your end. Several of us simply did not.

Most of us were unsure what the extent of the physical contact was, that’s why we, including myself sought further information from the journos. That information changed as more footage came to light. Unsurprisingly, so did ours.

It appears you took being unsure as a confident denial and bias. Despite many of us being overwhelmingly critical of Trez’s short fuse and nervous of easily perceived aggression and the potential for that to go too far.

If you feel the need to do a “I told you so lap”, feel free to do so, but perhaps furnish direct quotes for whomever you’d like to claim directly denied any punch ever happened, otherwise, why does being prophetic even matter?

It was a melee, hardly a punch, I can't believe Loe just walks away. Fine them, ban the fans and move on.

Dunkman, you sound like a biased Adelaide fan

I guess I am doing "I told you so" but it feels like a pyrrhic victory.

I sympathise with the NBL because, as Master Chief says, they are caught between a rock and a hard place.

I seriously appreciated what Harrell was bringing to the NBL, but at the same time, I can't support the idea of treating him differently to anyone else. If Loe or Ili or Kyle Bowen or Nick Marshall or anyone else did what Harrell did, they'd be in boiling hot water.

A tricky predicament.

I don't actually have a side, I like underdogs, I just think you should not be throwing players down stairs, it’s an emotional game, fans can’t slander players re colour or sexual preference without suffering consequences. I’m a basketball fan and I want to see best players on court playing. Love him or hate them, Harrel and Davis have been fantastic. They get long suspensions they are gone to other leagues, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

What did Childress get when he basically assaulted Wagstaff back then? Was it even a suspension? The league must frustrate ex-NBA stars...

I think the league should consider context if Sixers players' aggression was sparked by harmful remarks. I'm not Black or gay, so I don’t know how that feels, and I can’t say how I’d react. That said, Harrell seems overly confrontational, and I think he sometimes has a bit of a victim mentality, as Loe didn’t do anything particularly wrong. Though I’m trying to separate these incidents, they’re clearly connected. I feel most NBL fans and players don’t like Harrell’s showmanship unless they’re from Adelaide, which only fuels the urge to push back. Australians generally aren’t into big personalities, so fans and players might look for moments to stand up to him.

Unpopular opinion, but I kind of agree with Zodiac that Harrell could be both a blessing and a liability. Did anyone see that recent YouTube video of him arriving late during Wells’s pre-game speech? It didn’t look professional, even though there could be reasons for it. Not trying to speculate, but it does add to the impression that he’s disruptive and plays by his own rules. Not sure...

I have never attended a game in Melbourne so cannot comment on the security and I won't comment on the incidents as it is already well documented . I have sat directly behind the opposition team with my family for many years and have many interactions with them mostly cordial and pleasant as we do see most of them a couple of time a year . We have had a chair kicked at us (not deliberately ) water squirted from a players water bottle at us intentionally and players bash on the signage that separates us from the players to try and intimidate my wife from cheering (to no avail) . We are not allowed on the court until the entire opposition team has left the court including the coaches and support staff and the venue has a security guard who comes to the courtside exit rope at the end of the game to stop us. In previous instances where there has been unpleasantness the previous game the same little old lady has come and sat at the exit rope for the entire game . There is a code of conduct that all ticket holders have agreed to implicitly by accepting the ticket whether paid for or not and I have definitely seen coaches have patrons removed during games .
My point is that Melbourne have a case to answer security wise and the NBL needs to have a solution for when a group of fired up large men get made to huddle in a group inches from spectators .

For what it is worth when Harrel came to our town I told the Adelaide coaches we would be quiet that night to which one replied that He was really a teddy bear at training .

Sorry rant over

Childress only got suspended for one game for that crude hit on Wagstaff, which sums up the NBL's kid gloves approach to dealing with out of control ex-NBA stars.

Harrell deserves a lengthy suspension bor both incidents but it wouldn't surprise me if the NBL convinces itself to just give him a 1 or 2 game suspension in the hope he doesn't spit the dummy and refuses to come back.

Troppo, interesting insight. You are not ranting for giving your opinion on here.

Zodiac, but if Harrell will only play on the condition he isn't suspended for punching someone, then the league needs to consider how much they want him to be apart of it. You probably agree with that anyway, and I am not trying to isolate Harrell as a villain.

LV - can understand your total Melbourne United bias as pointed out earlier you are a passionate supporter but maybe take your blinkers off and acknowledge some of the culpability sits with MU:

- the players . part of the melee
- the crowd members. accusations of homophobic and racist comments etc
- the organisation. acknowledge above.


Harrell while also in the frame should not be the scapegoat.

I'm taking "Melbourne United" to mean the club as a whole

It wasn't Collingwood's fault when the 13 year old yelled a racist insult at Adam Goodes. It was the work of an individual

The players represent the club but Ili and Loe's role in the melee is what you see many times every season and I expect their punishments will reflect that- a fine and nothing more.

As I've said multiple times, I think the NBL would be responsible for legal review of the contract renewal with JCA who would be providing security.

QAnon made one good point- perhaps there should be additional review of United's game day staff and any role they have in practically overseeing things.

But without more knowledge it's hard to say exactly who's responsible for what. Except I would be betting the legal responsibility for security primarily lies with the venue.

The 36ers would have a security member sit directly behind opposition benches for certain teams , this was pre Hollywood seats.

I too have seen people evicted at the behest of players and coaches. I have also seen players and coaches get into the back and forth with spectators and high five each other at games end.

It's on United to instruct the security team of the venue to ensure their standards are upheld and player and coaching staff are protected. United failed this test as an organisation

All sports try and cover up incidents that they want brushed under the carpet. Barry Haall anyone, that Collingwood dude Maynard, that got to play in the GF after taking some players head off. Hypocrisy abounds in this world, the nbl should not be sucked into making rash decisions at the detriment of the league. By all means, send out some heavy fines and possibly a game and then move on.

It certainly got the nbl some fantastic cover over the fiba break. As the boss of the nfl said once, there is no thing as bad media, or something to that effect.

"It wasn't Collingwood's fault when the 13 year old yelled a racist insult at Adam Goodes. It was the work of an individual"

In amateur league footy club's can be held responsible for the actions of their fans, I know a couple of teams that have been stripped of their points and banned for the rest of the season, one for a spectator running on the ground and decking an umpire and another one because their club's fans used to routinely start brawls with opposition supporters at their home games.

There's been a couple of incidents at Melbourne games now not to mention that infamous Tigers/United court announcer somehow still exists, so will LK decide to fine himself? Something needs to be done about standards at Melbourne games.

Did have a flashback to Heal and Nielsen running into the stands at The Powerhouse

One was trying to hold the other one back but cant recall who

Peterson is colourful, but better colourful than bland in my view

Over 30+ years in the caper there's bound to be a few incidents

What's he supposed to have said to incite the crowd?

Sanctions are out, everyone go have a look

Some of them anyway https://nbl.com.au/news/united-36ers-players-learn-fate

*opens popcorn waits for ADL fans to arrive*

ili fine for Melee

Barlow fined for leaving the bench ( which should have meant the 36ers got FT's and was missed by Butlers review at the time)

Trez and Davis referred to review panel

KD to answer handling a spectator ( is that even a rule? , I bet it isnt)

Trez Melee, 2 x striking and handling a spectator

The drums out of HQ say the spectator thing is keeping up appearances and is a non issue as they have to protect the players so expect a warning

Melee can only match Ili's fine surely for Trez

Trez in trouble for the striking, much to LV's excitement who will appear as a specialist witness at the tribunal :P

Adelaide players Montrezl Harrell and Kendric Davis have been referred directly to a Single Member Tribunal.
The National Basketball League (NBL) advises the Game Review Panel (GRP) has completed its assessment of the fourth quarter incidents in Sunday's Melbourne v Adelaide game.


Adelaide players Montrezl Harrell and Kendric Davis have been referred directly to a Single Member Tribunal.


Harrell has been charged with two charges of striking, engaging in a melee and inappropriate grabbing or handling of a spectator.


Davis has been charged with inappropriate grabbing or handling of a spectator.


The Single Member Tribunal will sit at 1pm AEDT on Friday.


Melbourne player Shea Ili has been charged with engaging in a melee, resulting in a $775 fine or a $585 fine with an early plea.


Melbourne assistant coach David Barlow has been charged with bench clearing during a fight. This incident incurs a $775 fine or a $585 fine with an early plea. Under FIBA rules, only a head coach and/or first assistant coach are permitted to leave the team bench area during a fight, or during any situation which may lead to a fight, to assist the referees to maintain or to restore order.


Melbourne can accept or appeal the decisions.


The NBL Integrity Department’s investigation of fan behaviour from the game remains ongoing.

LV


Your level of cognitive dissonance on this one is profound.ie seeking out information that confirms your existing beliefs

I've been called as a specialist witness providing expert commentary on interpretation of grainy footage

Nothing on the 4 idiot spectators yet?

Life ban from any NBL/ NBL1 game for all of them? MU strip them of all membership and any association with franchise? No point going hard at the players if not going hard at the instigators of the off court action.

Harrel 1 match ban for the strike 1 match for touching the idiot spectator, one of those matches suspended and those silly little fines NBL hands out for each of the other charges.

Davis 1 match ban but suspended.

What is a Single Member Tribunal and who is it?

This outcome seems to back the video doing rounds today. Appears Davis started the shoving with the spectators, who then stood up for themselves as they were attacked by Adelaide players.

@Scout I wouldn't anticipate an AFL club would be in trouble if an opposition player was hurt by a streaker because venue security were too slow or ineffective at stopping it.

Same reasoning applies here.

The question is how much involvement or oversight an NBL club is supposed to have over venue security at their home games.

I'm betting it's the exact same security guards as Phoenix games, and they're contractors working for a security company who supplies JCA for tennis, gigs and all manner of events.

@knowall link to video?

Hypocrisy at its finest, united squeaky clean.

What is a Single Member Tribunal and who is it?

Exactly what it says. 1 Person making a decision.

It's a lawyer. It's not publicised who it is for obvious reasons.
It's BA appointed.

The usual weak as piss NBL penalties. Anything more might "hurt the image of the game they're trying to sell", no doubt.

Are people really suggesting Shea Ili should be suspended for a push to the chest?
And Loe? Who did nothing??

Whoa, hang on, Loe gets absolutely *nothing* for pulling Harrell to the ground and effectively instigating the whole thing??
What footage was the "single member tribunal" actually watching?

It was a charge - some people say Loe pulled him down or maybe Loe reacted instinctively to stop himself falling to the ground - whatever it was, it was an over-reaction by Harrel and the foul could have been reviewed. This sort of contact happens a lot in games. What doesn't happen a lot in games is someone punching another player in the face.

After the incident Michael Aylen said they would review the call.


And saying Wayne Peterson incited the crowd is ridiculous.

"And Loe? Who did nothing"

Wow just wow - have you watched the clip? Loe pulled Harrell down - is he coached to do that or is a skill he has developed all on his own.


LV thanks for making my point.

Also calling to the idiot in the crowd as a 'fan' isn't the best description.

He should be referred to as an attendant, because an actual fan respects the players of both teams, and doesn't go there to behave like a fuckwit......or maybe I'm expecting too much from society at this point?

Like I said you can hear Aylen saying that the foul would be reviewed - the call of a charge stood

Exactly, Loe started it, even Gaze said it once he saw it. Charge, block, these are minute timing calls, what if it had been a block call, Loe had no right to grab Harrell. None whatsoever, if he was trying to protect his fall maybe put your arms out to soften the fall instead of pulling him over the top of you. It went on from there. Fine the two Adelaide players and get on with it. Can anyone see the initial call in slow motion, that will tell us a lot or are they hiding it.

A fine for a punch to the face??

The absolute worst thing you could charge Loe with is a holding foul, people suggesting he was in any way responsible for what ensued are delusional.

This is proving to be very interesting

MU are going to be asked to explain why they had a DP guarding the leagues best player in the first quarter. The thought is that MU went into the game with the specific goal of targeting Montrezl to fire him up to get him to do something dumb e.g. entice him into a fight.

The early independent reviews agree that Trez was targeted solely to get a reaction from him.

Now the question of liability comes into it. If a player was deliberately target outside the rules then the can of worms is well and truly open

I also realise it's MU and nothing will come of that but interesting nonetheless.

The handling a spectator charge looks to carry a penalty of up to 10 games! That would really kill the Sixers season I guess (and also make it very hard for the NBL to get imports out in the future).

"The absolute worst thing you could charge Loe with is a holding foul, people suggesting he was in any way responsible for what ensued are delusional."

Yes there is a fair bit of delusion going on here. None moreso than the post about a DP guarding Harell. You can only shake your head sometimes.

This is proving to be very interesting

MU are going to be asked to explain why they had a DP guarding the leagues best player in the first quarter. The thought is that MU went into the game with the specific goal of targeting Montrezl to fire him up to get him to do something dumb e.g. entice him into a fight.

The early independent reviews agree that Trez was targeted solely to get a reaction from him.

Now the question of liability comes into it. If a player was deliberately target outside the rules then the can of worms is well and truly open

I also realise it's MU and nothing will come of that but interesting nonetheless.

You dont think it's odd that a DP would be asked to guard the leagues best player in the first quarter of a crucial game ?

It's odd and highly unusual which means there is a reason for it.

Yeah Jack White wasn't playing

I could also share with you what happened at practice today but why spoil the fun. You'll read bout that soon enough.

Believe me , dont believe me - doesnt matter to me. I share what is happening with a large degree of accuracy so deal with that as you like.

I didn't have Tom Koppens being used to wind up Montrezl Harrell in my pre season predictions, lol

The holding foul as you call it pull a player on top of him, why did he do that? There was no need for it, they both shoved while on the ground, both got up and Illi came running in. To me Loe started the melee. Anyway, each to their own. Going to be very interesting as it just looks like united got wrist slaps and now Sixers trying cover their arse. United and THEIR crowd were just as bad.

So Dunkman you think Ili and Loe should be suspended??

QAnon living up to his username with mad conspiracies lol

Jack White was injured, it didn't take nostradamus to predict that Aliir or Koppens would be on-court at some point.

Everyone with a passing interest knows Vickerman always plays his bench, and picks his teams for balance.

Thats why United won a title with Mason Peatling in the starting 5

A couple of years ago when Hukporti got injured and Jordan Caroline turned out to be a spud, David Okwera was playing 20 minutes a game

Pretty sure QAnon knows all this and he's just trolling for sh!ts and giggles. Fair enough

No one's yet quoted what Peterson allegedly said either?

And the idea Loe 's responsible for Harrell punching Ili

Come on guys, it's Wednesday afternoon, you're not supposed to be on hard liquor at this stage of the week

"To me Loe started the melee."

None of his actions justified any acts of violence in return. He didn't start anything.

The only on-court action worth considering for penalty greater than a foul call was Harell's strike at Ili. Looking at the matrix the NBL use, the low level of impact would at most deem it worthy a fine.

The only suspensions from this will come out of the 36ers / crowd interaction.

Having said that, so what if United decided being physical with Harrell was a good strategy

No different to what Cotton and Goulding face every game.

It's the idea that the NBL would think it legitimate to question United about anything like that (or ask why a coach known for playing his bench would, you know, play his bench), that's the ridiculous part.

I'm saying both side are guilty, it takes to to tango and if the melee had been left between those two, possibly nothing more would have followed, Illi ran in and it went from there to where supporters got involved. So yes if Sixers guys get suspended so should united, or as I’ve said all along hefty fines and get on with it. It’s not a good look if Davis and Harrell spend weeks out while united in my view were equal instigators. Fine them all 10g each and move on.

Dunkmam, as I said, wait till the weekend to get on the booze

Going hard all week is unhealthy

Im a neutral observer with no allegiance to any team (despite living in Melbourne) and I
completely agree with everything you said Dunkman.

Loe initiated it with deliberate and unnecessary rough conduct, Illi incited it further.
Loe deserves a fine.

United also should publicly condemn the behaviour of the 'fan'

Anyone who thinks "if Sixers guys get suspended so should united" is simply on hard booze or something. Or forget to take their meds. Or they're just trolling

Same as me Knockdown3, I am a neutral supporter, I support quality hoops.

@ LV, other than insults and not being able to see both side of the coin you have nothing, by the way I haven't drunk in forty years to excess, my brain understood it was time to slow down.

Different angle https://www.facebook.com/reel/946683434181044?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&fs=e&fs=e&s=TIeQ9V

Hope they get a lifetime ban - disgusting behaviour by these spectators

His girlfriend was trying pull him away, unless you can hear the exact words being spoken it's hard to really know what blue it all up.
If it all goes Melbourne way though, a lot of neutrals will think it’s the same as afl, totally Melbourne centric. Not a good look.

Like in the AFL I think having these matters referred directly to the Single Member Tribunal reflects what the Review Panel deemed the serious gravity of the charges and the heavy sanctions that are open to be imposed if found guilty. If early plea sanctions like suspended sentences and fines were in play they would have been dealt with by the Review Panel.

In the opening footage Davis reaches in between two of those trying to cool things, and pushes the spectator, then pulled back and hid in tge safety behind his team mates

Yeah, the guys who remonstrated with fans and punched opponents will get suspended

And the guys who didn't remonstrate with fans or throw punches won't get suspended

And this will be evidence of a "Melbourne centric" NBL.

Hahaha

LV for f..k sake that is beyond pathetic

If my club had some absolute fruit loops supporters trying to punch on with an opposing team I would acknowledge they fn idiots



Seriously LV reflect acknowledged that that needs to change ie get your culture right

Melbourne United have a damn deep team - to put it bluntly your culture is shit.

Lol

One Muppet fan act, out of 150,000 - 200,000 fans (or 150,000 - 200k tickets purchased over a season) means United's entire culture is stuffed.

Now I've heard it all. This thread is the gift that keeps giving

As I said multiple times, consider a lengthy ban for hoodie (many years or life, if the alleged racist remark can be verified). Then review the security protocols, (in conjunction with JCA and NBL) then get on with it

It's not that hard

Q,

I hear Wells is making sure the team get plenty if practice punching on should events like the weekend happen again.

LV take some time for some reflection, vulnerability is a strength.

MU at the moment have a bad rep own it strong list but crap culture

Scout, the closest we have had was that guy who was doing that special dance behind Chase Buford and saying goodness knows what to him. It certainly caused Chase to go speechless for a moment. He was severely scalded by one of the ladies in the green suits and then sent back to his corporate box. I think to be fair the culture of United's playing group and coaches is not in question. That is what many would say is a club’s culture. It is just that we expect the same of members, fans, corporates, sponsors, front office etc. and that very wide cohort is viewed as the club and all are expected to uphold the club’s culture.

Lol Scout, 1 out of 200,000 fans this season doesn't equal poor culture

That's like saying Carlton footy club has poor culture merely because one fan threw a bottle at a goal umpire this year, and got banned for life

KL yep


LV nope reflect and own it, will help you improve and have a better culture. Keep denying and claiming righteousness plays into what you are not standing for

If you want fans who don't act like tools, a good starting point is having an emcee who isn't a tool and setting a tooly vibe for the arena

Australian article talking of 10 game bans for Davis and Harrell. Surely not? That is basically season over Adelaide, and doubt either would hang around.

10 game ban would be what you'd expect from a league where the game is bigger than the players- NRL, AFL, NBA etc.

From the NBL that would be surprising

10 weeks is probably a maximum sanction for the most egregious infringement. Think striking, head butting, chasing a fan into the stands etc. What the NBA has done with a similar infringement is probably a good guide. But there are also the striking charges so even if the fan altercation sanction was only say 3 weeks, the striking sanctions might be 2 weeks each and cumulative meaning for Harrell it could be a particularly long spell on the sidelines.

My estimate is Harrell gets two games with a fine.
The NBL won't apply anything harsher at the risk of losing what they regard as their most marketable player.

I predict it'll be some attempt at straddling both sides of the fence

Harrell will get 1 game for striking Ili, and 4 games for the fan. Total 5 games

But with 3 games suspended pending good behaviour for rest of season. Plus a fine.

Something lame and transparent like that.

@Big Ads - indeed

Can Adelaide sign short term replacement players is suspensions are lengthy?

How does Wayne Peterson still have a job?

The guy has a laundry list of indiscretions yet continues on his merry way.

Back when there was proper Melbourne rivalries my company sponsored a team so we sat courtside, and even back then his antics were disgraceful. He really thinks he is part of the team of players.

Best part is when he cops it back he cries victim because his face looks like used sandpaper.

Just a few -

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/14/basketball-announcer-stood-down-after-inappropriate-comment-during-fiery-nbl-game

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/tigers-fined-by-nbl-20091125-jrmg.html

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/flopping-a-blight-on-nbl-says-tigers-chief-20121122-29slg.html

https://thewest.com.au/sport/basketball/tigers-fined-for-abusing-nbl-officials-ng-ya-229379

https://thewest.com.au/sport/basketball/tigers-announcer-offended-by-breaker-ng-ya-137793

Classy Felix

What was comment in this thread?
Men lie, Women lie, facts don't.

Peterson is a blight on the NBL and United.

Anyone else would be long gone but I guess it pays to be in with the Tigers 'ol boys

Tissue

Wayne "Sebastian" Peterson.

Rematch just got spicier. Melbourne have selected the 6ers as they summer shootout team.

Why did Adelaide choose a defensive oriented team in Tasmania....

Teams choosing a bad defensive team like Adelaide makes sense. Choosing a team that have made defence the heart of their style? Just soooo dumbbbbb

What are you two talking about?

It's just a money competition for clubs and people

Novelty thing

KR, have a look at the 'summer shootout'

I mean, it's a pretty ridiculous concept anyway, but would agree that I can't understand this whole pride thing of wanting to beat the best, lol. Just pick the next worse team after Adelaide and hope for the prize. Melbourne would have said Adelaide before they even finished the question.

Felix raising the bar and staying classy here

LV raising the bar and staying biased here

It's hardly biased to avoid commenting on people's disabilities or disfigurements

It's just common decency, something you lack

I agree with Felix that Peterson should have been sacked long ago. The bloke has been a pest for years.

However, bringing up his appearance saying things like "his face looks like used sandpaper" isn't right.

Ironically, MU display signs on the screens every game saying 'offensive language and behaviour will not be tolerated’. They need to look in the mirror and move him on.

Fair whack.

Should not have used the word "used".

Just been reading the news articles on how both the NBL players union but also one or some MU fans will be defending/supporting Kendric and the 36ers in todays hearing
Sounds like some 'groundwork' is being done for a ruling based around over the top extreme fan provocation targeting specifically Kendric and Montrezl
The statements from the MU fan are very interesting and he is going to want to remain anonymous for sure.

Re Code Sports and some newspapers.

SEM to lodge complaint on United courtside announcer

Davis and Montrezl will get nothing re the fan interaction as the NBL and MU ( one and the same) are at fault.

If they do do something for some reason, the 36ers and the PA will appeal with Barristers and KC's.

What are you two talking about?

Tribunal delayed until Monday. Going sideways for the NBL right now.

"In the opening footage Davis reaches in between two of those trying to cool things, and pushes the spectator, then pulled back and hid in tge safety behind his team mates".

Knowall, i'm watching the clip on my phone, but I can’t tell if Kendric touched the spectator there or not. Is there other evidence you have seen? Also, was this before or after Kendric was allegedly told to: “sit your black ass back down on the bench” by that spectator?

Whatever the outcome, the NBL should require greater distance between the front row and the bench and there should be some
kind of proper barrier and security. That setup is just asking for trouble.

Beantown, not being able to tell something from footage and asking for other evidence is a totally unreasonable and biased approach to take!!!

United issues statement

Excerpt

"Melbourne United is aware of speculation regarding racially based, derogatory or offensive language allegedly used by spectators during last week's game against the Adelaide 36ers.


Throughout our own investigation and collaboration with the NBL investigation, the club has not been made aware that any such comments have been able to be substantiated or corroborated."

Anyone else smell the similarities with the Hawthorn issue? This one smells even nastier given Harrell was mic'd up.

Melbourne clears Melbourne, all good.

Adelaide, bad.

36ers statement:

"Over the past week the Adelaide 36ers have focused on supporting Kendric Davis and Montrezl Harrell, both practically and emotionally, in relation to the charges against them at Monday's Tribunal hearing.

The Club has retained highly experienced counsel, James McLeod, to represent both players. James has extensive experience in sports law, including in relation to racially based, derogatory or offensive language issues.

The Club and the players will not make any further comment until the conclusion of this process."

Joey was getting a bit heated on Boti's YT show prior filmed to the NBL's investigation concluding saying it will be BS if any Melbourne player escapes suspension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbaD6GYn80I&ab_channel=TimeOut-NOFLOPZONE

This topic starts at 5.00 in.

Joey's welcome to his opinion but its based on nothing

Show me the precedent from NBL or any remotely comparable league or sport- FIBA, NBA, AFL, NRL, NFL, A league... whatever

Find me a precedent from somewhere that justifies suspending somebody for shoving someone in the chest like Ili did

LV - Ben Wallace got 6 games for the shove that started the Malice in the Palace. There's plenty of other examples too but I'm sure you will find ways to dismiss them in your pro Melbourne rants you go on. Funnily enough in local juniors this past week a player was given a lengthy suspension for being the third player in shoving. It's a precedent at all levels.

Based on worldwide precedents Illi should be looking at around a 5-game suspension minimum. If he gets nothing you might as well give everyone else nothing too and move on otherwise there will be a massive smell to this and it can affect the league's ability to recruit other top tier talent.

He didnt just shove someone in the chest , he was the 3rd man into a nothing situation that caused it to escalate to what we have now. Without Ili it was a double foul at worst on Loe and Harrell.

Getting a $585 is an embarrassment to everyone and shows the bias' that United benefit from.

I'm sure that it was a couple of seasons ago that the NBL made a big statement about the 3rd man in being the person who will be fined the most to stop any melees.

Vickerman is able to have players go and target the stars of other teams with the safety that they wont be severely reprimanded. Barlow on Childress, Peatling on Creek now Ili on Harrell come to mind without doing any research.

The NBL operates on a system very similar to the AFL, where each action is graded in isolation. For a Melbourne player to be suspended they'd have to commit a reportable offence that would qualify for a suspension on the matrix.

Even if Ili's push was classified as a strike, it would be low impact and contact to the body, which would be a fine or reprimand.

For Ill to get a tiny fine in this is ridiculous, as stated if he didn't get involved it would have stopped, and double foul should have been called.

Also interested in the action of Loe pulling Loe down has been completely ignored in all of this and or dismissed as part of him falling - it was not it was intentional.

For all of this process I would expect some involved with MU both the club and their supporters on here to actually acknowledge some of these actions and the need for change then all would be fine and move on.


It is the total denial that gets me.

Any other club and they would pay.

@ Scout, well put totally agree. I said from day one, nbl doesn't want to lose it star players, fine them all heavily, starting with Loe and move on. You just can’t suspend one side, it’s bull shit. Send a warning out that if it happens again that there will be suspensions so everyone clearly knows the rules.

Whilst a bit of a separate issue, I think the way Melbourne players foul on basically every possession and get away with it is part of the problem.

Like some of the so called great defenders on their team like Ili should be fouled out in the first quarter, same as Bul Kuol in Sydney.

What this does is really annoy guys like Harrell, its happening all game then he and his team get called for breathing on CG43, so then occasionally someone like Harrell, who plays on the edge with high emotion lose their cool a bit as a result. But yes Harrell should keep his head, even he said that, but sometimes if you dont want the blow up you gotta fix the real cause.

Its why the Melbourne and Goorj approach of break the rules and foul all the time because they cant call them all is terrible for the league. Fans want to watch basketball, not that crap. I wish the refs would just call them all for a couple of games and force these guys to adjust or sit, and within a month this issue would be gone. If the coaches like Goork and Vickerman dont like it and scream at them toss them out too. BTW similar approach would fix the refs getting abused by coaches issues, just start regularly tossing the repeat offenders like Vickerman and Rillie in the first half of games.

Exactly, Kuol and others are grabbing and scragging constantly and no call, a big plays straight up D and bodies the opponent, foul.

Good call Jonno. T them early and prevent them from continued disgraceful sideline conduct.
And yes, MU get away with fouling beyond what any other team does.

Scout, Dunkman, myself and others did call ou5 the pull by Loe as the instigating factor.
It was deliberate, unnecessary and provocative.

MU's statement regarding the 'fan' is truly pathetic.
Regardless of whether racial slurs are proven or speculative, they could've at least condemned such behaviour outright on the grounds of principle.
To say they that their investigations couldn't substantiate the allegations shows that their 'investigations' were obviously superficial at best.
Hey, United, maybe contact the Adelaide players and ask them directly what was said to them by the idiot in the hoodie, SMH.

United are making it so hard to like them (except for a few of their players as individuals), but as a club, they're easily the most polarising in the league - from CG's unnecessary and pathetic theatrics, to Vickerman's appaling sideline conduct, to the blatant conflict of interest with LK.....

How piss poor was Ili not even waiting for Harrell to get on his feet before pushing him back down. In my opinion that dog act escalated the situation even more and Ili only cops a fine! next time Ili at least have the balls to confront the guy when he has both feet firmly on the floor.

Oh dear, this thread is becoming a parody of itself.

Wallace pushed Artest in the face/head. If you can't tell the difference between that and Ili, I can't help you

As for the "racist comment" there were heaps of people in the vicinity and Harrell was mic'd up. If it can't be independently verified then it probably didn't happen.

Much like the Hawthorn AFL saga that dragged on for 2 years

It's quite amusing that people want Loe to get heavily penalised when he extracted himself from the situation straight after his involvement

It's also amusing people are still complaining about United getting away with fouls, after Adelaide shot 37 free throws from 26 United fouls

And you accuse the NBL and myself of bias

It's a Saturday, better get down to Bunnings or Ikea.

They both stock mirrors.

LV you are the one becoming a parody of yourself.

Using the Goodes scenario and Hawthorn as examples to excuse racism is a cop out. Do you have accounts from all involved ie the recipients etc??

If a racist comment was used maybe call that out and think about it from the recipients point of view.

As some earlier posters have said some have acknowledged the alleged comments as and MU being potentially onboard with this as a reason for limiting the severity of the penalty on Davis.

I would argue that yep Harrell deserves a penalty but geeeez have some balance and look at the whole scenario and where liability is not only on one party.

Its not just a Melbourne thing, but I watch guys like Ili, Kuol, and many others and imo if the fouls were called properly they would foul out in the first half every game.

Same with if they actually applied the rules re coaches conduct, Vickerman and Rillie would have 2 techs and be tossed by half time in most games ive seen this year.

They dont do this cos they think its a bad look in their eyes to toss people/foul players out, but I think its a worse look to let them get away with it, call them toss them/foul them out and force the players and coaches to adjust and abide by the rules is the only way to fix it, and they would adjust within a few weeks if this was done.

This in turn would help things not get out of control, like they did.

Ili should 100% be suspended for the same as Harrell for the incident, if he had just not gotten involved none of this happens, i think this is a result of him basically getting away with everything all game.

Im not complaining about foul counts, claiming a Melbourne conspiracy or anything, but its pretty frustrating to watch some of these guys defend and be like thats a foul and it not have it called over and over again, then claim it was good physical defence, only to have someone flop at the slightest contact and have that called.

This has been my gripe with Goorj n Vickerman type teams for years now,

Same as the yelling at the refs, as a viewer its just annoying to hear all the time, we dont watch NBL to watch Rillie and others yell at refs cos their team isnt playing well.

Just wish the NBL would actually sort this stuff out, its a pretty easy fix imo.

If a foul call it, if some player gets fouled out in 5 minutes thats the players fault, the player needs to adjust and play by the rules

Give the coaches a pre game warning, if they go to far give them 1 more warning, from then on its techs, after 2 toss them, if some coach is tossed in the first 5 minutes then thats the coaches fault, the coaches need to adjust.

We just need to tell the players and coaches to adjust and play by the rules and not ask the referees to adjust and not call obvious things.

This was also Tatums issue, he gets a tech, when Vickerman is at the other end doing worse all game long and not called anything.

Good post Jonno - not a MU thing but there is no consistency with what coaches do and don't get away with.

"If Ili hadn't pushed harrell, then Harrell wouldn't have punched Ili in the face or remonstrated with a fan, therefore Ili deserves the same penalty as Harrell"

You guys realise two things right

1. This logic is completely infantile and twisted and because it can be used to justify all kinds of moral evil? "If she didn't scream at me, I wouldn't have hit her" or "If he didn't give me drugs, I wouldn't have run that person over" Etc etc

2. It can be flipped into an infinite regress. The first incident in the chain was actually Harrell barrelling into Loe. Of course Loe shouldn't have grabbed him, but likewise, Harrell shouldn't have got up and clocked Ili, or argued with fans 2 minutes later, just because he got a little shove

@scout racism was never proven in the Hawthorn incident, that's my whole point

If this racist comment was made, then some of the scores of people in vicinity would've heard it. Or Harrell's mic would've picked it up

If you make an accusation the onus is on you to prove it.

And when it allegedly occured in a public event amongst a crowd of people with microphone nearby,it should be easy to prove

If it really happened.

Johnno & Scout +1

Just for comment there were 3 tech's in this game

No one is excusing Harrell response to Ili, just saying prevention is better than cure, if you want to prevent these things, call the game properly and not have him hacked all game, and when a little incident happens dont allow a 3rd guy in this case Ili come in and blow things up. Then we dont have to argue about this stuff as its avoided in the first place. But yes, Harrell needs to grow up and keep his head too.

Just saying both are in the wrong

To me they both should get the same penalty of around 2 games and move on.

With the fan stuff, it clearly got messy, to avoid this in the future, dont have fans that close to the opposition bench, have empty seats or security, also give that guy in the hoodie a lengthy ban from NBL games, as fans should not act as he did full stop. The players were not perfect either, but again if the fan left them alone they would have left him alone, sometimes we have to acknowledge that peoples actions have a reaction, not saying the reaction is right, but the initial action is the root cause.

LV - totally disagree on your stance on racism - when it occurs it needs calling out not minimising or worse blaming the person who calls it out (as happened with Goodes) - we need to learn from this stuff and improve. MU had has the opportunity (and you) to do so call it out not minimise it. But move let's move on.


Also understand your stance on who takes on liability - everyone except MU - your point of view is so biased it is scary.

Yes Loe and Illi had parts to play in this incident and to be honest you minimise and blame everything on Adelaide players

As a passionate JJs supporter there are times when I have been embarrased ie fans abusing DJV when he was with Sydney, the incident up in Launy with a clapper being thrown on the court along with online abuse of current JJ players - this stuff calling out not ignoring.

We can use this stuff to improve not get all defensive.

Exactly, the fans behavior in these incidents is unacceptable, and needs to stop, full stop.

Thankfully it doesnt happen often, but needs to stop, no justification for it.

Whether the players were perfect is another issue, as both sides can be in the wrong, but the players didnt all the sudden just decide to go at this guy for no reason, so clearly something pretty out of bounds was said, as players are used to a certain level of banter that is generally accepted and its rare that these reactions come from players.

Ili got ejected as the 3rd man in. Harrell got ejected for striking. Kind of how it is supposed to work

[To me they both should get the same penalty of around 2 games and move on.]

A shove in the chest does not equal a punch in the jaw.

Simple.

A shove in the chest does not equal a punch in the jaw and remonstrating with a fan, I should say

[LV - totally disagree on your stance on racism - when it occurs it needs calling out not minimising or worse blaming the person who calls it out]

In that case we agree 100%

Again, the NBL no longer has an arbitary system like they did in yesteryear, they've basically copied the AFL's system and as such a shove in the chest, even if classified as a strike, would be graded low impact and contact to the body and would attract at most a fine.

You do make a good point there LV, even though it wasn't much of a punch, the action of even swinging for a punch needs to go,

In that case Ili doesn't get less, but Harrell gets more.

If you want you can also give Harrell a week for the fan stuff too, again as long as the fan gets a big ban too.

So say 2 games for Ili and 4 games for Harrell (perhaps they suspend 50% of each penalty) so they serve 1 week and 2 weeks initially.

BTW in my eyes, Ili is not really being suspended for just a push, hes being suspended for being the 3rd man in and escalating an incident which likely doesnt even occur without him doing anything. This stuff needs to go, so he needs to serve a punishment.

Being third man in isn't a tribunal offence under the NBL system. Engaging in a melee is and the penalty around that is a fine, although repeat offenders can subsequently receive suspension.

Racism, never proven in the hawthorn incident, lmao, they just paid out a substantial amount of coin to make it go away. One of there best ever players Rioli, retired early. He was so good that even supporters who didn't follow hawks loved him.
Re the Sixers v United stoush, again there is two sides to every story but only one has had a fair go so far.

Your probably right, that is the system, but I just personally think it should be penalised harsher if we actually want to get rid of this stuff.

Imo fines are a complete waste of time, they are never harsh enough, do players actually pay them? Anstey on his podcast mentioned a while ago he never actually paid any fines he was given.

To me give them a week or more suspension or let them off completely

I know thats not how it works, but imo its why these things never stop happening.

Same as the coach abusing refs, flopping, guys holding and grabbing on de and not getting called, they will all still continue cos the NBL is too soft and wont actually do what is required and hold certain people accountable.

"For Ill to get a tiny fine in this is ridiculous, as stated if he didn't get involved it would have stopped, and double foul should have been called."

What do you think Harrell was going to give Loe a hug when he got to his feet? Look how quickly he was getting up. Nothing pointed out he was going to stop when he got to his feet.

"if you want to prevent these things, call the game properly and not have him hacked all game"

He had 12 foul shots up to that point! Davis ended up with 18 foul shots! The refs were calling it properly!

"To me they both should get the same penalty of around 2 games and move on."

So one guy punches a guy in the face and strikes his hand into the guys face. The other guy pushes a guy and you want the suspension to be the same? That is ridiculous

Some ridiculous things being said by Sixers fans unfortunately. I am with LV with most of this regarding the initial fight. Very poor reaction by Harrell and no Ili does not deserve a suspension.

"Being third man in isn't a tribunal offence under the NBL system. Engaging in a melee is and the penalty around that is a fine, although repeat offenders can subsequently receive suspension."

This is correct!

"Your probably right, that is the system, but I just personally think it should be penalised harsher if we actually want to get rid of this stuff."

Fair enough, but I feel like the ejection was a fair penalty for what Ili did. If the crowd incident hadn't occurred afterward there would be very little discussion about this minor scuffle.

SixersFan, stop right there!

Don't mention any facts- like Davis and Harrell's 30 free throws.

Or the fact that no one has ever had the same suspension for a push in the chest compared to a punch in the face.

Facts aren't allowed! Only pro-36ers whining is permitted.

Those are the rules. Please abide by them.

Things are spicing up

Oh boy , wait til this gets out!

I dont think im being too pro sixers,

I agree Harrell, was acting poorly, was screaming at the TV for him to grow the F up when it happened, agreed with him being tossed, I think he should and will get 2-5 games suspension for his actions. The harshest penalty of all involved, so thats hardly pro sixers.

I just also think Ili should get a suspension for his part in blowing the entire thing up, sure it was just a push, but its the context of it and what it caused, i personally think the 3rd man in thing should be punished, if it were upto me, I would give him 1-2 weeks, but acknowledge it will likely be 0

I just think i hate how certain players and coaches act and get away from things, to take it away from Melbourne or Adelaide I will use Bul Kuol and John Rillie as examples, and yes even if Kuol or his team has a high foul count, they are still getting away with alot of holding, grabbing, fouling that isnt called, even if he does end up fouling out, i personally think he is foulding more than 5 times and should be fouled out quicker. Its not just him, but he is one that comes to mind.

John Rillie constantly speaking as he does to the refs is also not good for the game and should be tidied up, even if he does get some techs, he really should get 3 times as many as he does imo, and yes he isnt also alone in this.

I think its also the massive inconsistancy in how this stuff is treated, you get players at one point getting away with heaps of ilegal contact, holding, etc, and 2 seconds later a guy is called for breathing on his opponent/minor contact, at the very least keep it the same all game, i think these things cause great frustration to players and then go towards causing some of these flair ups which happen. Not excusing how a guy like Harrell flaired up, but if we tidied the game up a bit, it would help in reducing them.

I doubt NBA or FIBA Olympic/World cup refs would let these things go, so nor should we.

Heck you clearly do not watch FIBA at any level or NBA

I guess to some degree i look back to the gerat 36ers teams of the 90s

Look at how Darnell Mee defended, he didnt rely on grabbing, fouling all game, but yes wasnt perfect, but did it in a fairer way and is seen as one of the best ever.

But sure, there was always the old Goorj teams that were seen as too physical over that era too

I guess its a difference in philosophy that their is the Smyth/L Gaze way to play which I probably prefer or the Goorj/Vickerman style which i dont enjoy watching as much, but do concede it has been very successful over the years, i just dont see it as fair basketball, but maybe its just me.

Is there any dispute any of the fouls called in the game were not there?

I generally think, the fouls called were there, its just that there are others that are not called when should be imo, and it appears certain guys get away with more than others over the years.

Anyway, I guess it will be interesting to see what happens,

Just imo, Harrell should get 2-5 games, Ili 1-2 games (which he wont), and the rest fines or nothing.

Totally agree Jonno - no dispute re need for Harrell to get what is warranted also believe Illi should and it should what Loe did etc should be acknowledged not ignored.

@Qanon "wait till this gets out"

Will "this" actually happen, unlike the last thing you mentioned in this thread?

As mentioned previously on this forum, using an uneven or even foul count as evidence a game was reffed fairly or not is stupid. Rarely are foul counts even, particularly these days with perimeter play and teams often having very contrasting styles.

@LV - I stand by my comments

The 36ers haven't presented yet which will involve evidence of Montrezl being targeted by United players in non basketball plays. Hence the oddity of the defenders that were on him.

The commentator winding Harrell up by intentionally mispronouncing his name and encouraging spectators to tell the 36ers what they think, allegedly.

There is a reason why the media have been excluded from accessing the tribunal. Legal threats over United and NBL to protect people identities involved, allegedly.

Here we go let's set the bait.
Whether you like LV or not or his views on life he is telling it like it is.
illie and Barstow have been dealt with. Regardless of what anyone else thinks or believes. Loe got run over and this time the call was assessed charge. Harrell plays a similar game that Big sauce did last year, but this years officiating is allowing more contact. It’s a trend world wide since the worlds.
But I digress here is a question for you die hard Adelaide supporters.
What if Davis indeed started the shoving match?
What if Harrell continuing to engage in conversation with the spectators incited Davis?
There is a strong possibility (due to the fact they been asked to appear at a tribunal) this did happen.
What then ?

I could see the potential for Court injunctions coming from this whole hoopla

"Just imo, Harrell should get 2-5 games, Ili 1-2 games (which he wont), and the rest fines or nothing."

Agreed

Qanon, so this explosive evidence from the 36ers will take place secretly, meaning there's no way to verify your theory

This gets better and better!

Much like the alleged racism which United has basically said "that can't be proven so forget about it". A totally fair response and they wouldn't have said that unless they were confident in the fact that there's no solid evidence

Re targeting Harrell, as I said, who cares. So Vickerman- the NBL coach most known for playing his bench- decided to, wait for it.... play his bench! And United allegedly put physical pressure on Harrell

Even if that's all true.... what then? Does that justify clocking Ili or getting into it with spectators?

Hardly

Qanon, so this explosive evidence from the 36ers will take place secretly, meaning there's no way to verify your theory

This gets better and better!

Much like the alleged racism which United has basically said "that can't be proven so forget about it". A totally fair response and they wouldn't have said that unless they were confident in the fact that there's no solid evidence

Re targeting Harrell, as I said, who cares. So Vickerman- the NBL coach most known for playing his bench- decided to, wait for it.... play his bench! And United allegedly put physical pressure on Harrell

Even if that's all true.... what then? Does that justify clocking Ili or getting into it with spectators?

Hardly

Wow:

"the alleged racism which United has basically said "that can't be proven so forget about it". A totally fair response and they wouldn't have said that unless they were confident in the fact that there's no solid evidence"


Does this include evidence from the alleged recipient of racism?


Totally fair response? Nope as others have pointed out even if it didn't happen a statement saying that "we are not sure this has occurred but if it has we do not condone / abhor any type of racism." Get on the front foot do not be so defensive. Condoning racism does not acknowledge it as you say.

Also agree with this ; "Harrell should get 2-5 games, Ili 1-2 games (which he wont), and the rest fines or nothing."


LV you are so fixated with defending MU you can not see the wood for the trees -out of controversy adversity brings opportunity.

Hoops vs LV is always a fun time

It's hardly hoops vs LV

Plenty of posters have stated they agree with me

The quiet majority I'd suggest

@Scout United did express similar sentiments - if you'd bothered to read it.

Vickerman is well known for his "anti-racist" views. Even attended the controversial Black Lives Matter protests with some of his players back in the covid era.

United's culture and ethics aren't in question (apart from by a few tall poppy nutters on this forum). United's culture, both on and off court, I'd suggest is the envy of many NBL coaches and execs.

But that doesn't mean United should let unfounded accusations fester without stating that, well, they're unfounded.

I shouldn't say he's "well known" for his views

But he did speak At length in an NBL podcast about his decision to attend Black Lives Matter

And for anyone who doesn't remember it was very controversial because VicPol lacked the powers to stop the rally (or so they claimed)

A similar planned rally was banned by NSW police. This was when everyone was stressing about "stopping the spread" (sorry to take you back there)

But Vickerman attended and very happily explained why

"The quiet majority I'd suggest"

How can you know it's the majority if they’re quiet?

Because the loud views of some who oppose me are so nutty they couldn't possibly be the majority, unless we're taking a straw poll from a 36ers post match function where everyone's 8 beers deep and lamenting another 36ers loss

I've only stated common sense views that any neutral should agree with

And I've stated views that were initially questioned but, ended up being proven 100% correct.

Eg Harrell punched/jabbed Ili, it was never ever merely a slap

So your view is most people agree with you because how could they possibly not agree with you?

Geez that's a concerning approach to take.

As I said earlier, some of the views expressed in this thread could only be from people who forgot to take their meds

Or were engaging in unhealthy levels of drinking or other forms of substance abuse

Hoops.com.au should unite to oppose substance abuse and instead support our fellow posters

LV seems to be the type of person that believes the rapist point of view

That's a reasonable troll game you've got going there, mixing some almost logical takes with unwarranted insults and ridiculous straw man arguments. Kudos.

In any case, has the MelbourNBL done anything about the fans that instigated a physical altercation with the 36ers after the refs "missed" Trez being pulled to the ground?

I saw they came down heavy on United and docked a couple of players a Playstation each. Financially, I'm not sure you ever recover from that sort of thing. Players around the league will certainly take note and tone down their antics, lest they miss out on after practice Fortnite sessions.

Regardless of LV's stance this is proving to be a very important moment in NBL history

36ers have engaged lawyers

United have engaged lawyers

The courtside spectators have engaged lawyers

The league is nervous as to what happens next.

Trez with another "If I return to Australia..." post on Instagram.