another parent who thinks they know it all.

Tryouts happened, some kids were given extra sessions to try make teams, some kids came in afterwards as they were clearly known/better than those cut once they missed out at other clubs.

Is it a difficult, cut throat time of year, absolutely. Was anything mentioned an example of the process being a shambles or unethical. Absolutely not.

Gee I don't miss rep basketball and the know all F all parents that come with it.

At our Association players must register to attend and those from out of Associatios must lodge an Expression of Interest to trial with the State Body.

Our State body also have a limit on how many Out of Association players can transfer in so that some Associations cannot go poaching numbers of players to build their teams and not consider those who have been local juniors all their time and get cut.

As usual some Associations find a way to get around it but nothing as bad as how it previously use to be.

Prior to trials we run a rookie rep trial tryouts for 3 weeks.

From there those considered worthwhile are invited to the rep trials.

We run 3 trials and after the 1st trial everyone is invited back.

After the 2nd trial those who are considered not suitable can be cut and the 3rd trial is invitation only.

By the end of the 2nd trial the Div 1 Coach should know who they are selecting for their team leaving the 3rd trial for the Div 2 Coach and other teams if numbers are there to select and finalise their team/s

If you do not attend the first 2 trials then you cannot be considered unless you have a very valid reason.

"As usual some Associations find a way to get around it but nothing as bad as how it previously use to be."

Yup I herd this season alone one club here in VJBL land had 27 imports...all approved....love to know how they got that over the line..across all age groups but sheesh

Imports rule only applies to each team dosnt it, and only if they are above VJBL4? For the bigger clubs that still leave about of space for imports.

The try-out process is very difficult for all involved, selectors included. Best to be upfront in communication and communicate those decisions as soon as they are made so players and families can assess their options. Two-way street - families need to be upfront with clubs.

As to transfers, always scratch my head with clubs bringing in players below their 1s except if they need to fill up teams - if it's not to fill up teams, those transfers are often marginal in terms of increasing quality and just result in kids being pushed back or out the bottom of the program. It demonstrates a lack of loyalty to kids / families and confidence in ability to improve kids. There’s different views - kids need to have the ability to move if it’s best for them. It’s an increasing issue I think with try out numbers and clubs running smaller programs as well as lack of coaches.

In NSW Premier League,Div 1 and 2 can only bring in 1 transfer per team.

Div 3 and below you can bring in 2 transfers per team.

One Association bought in a player who was of State team level and that player sat out for 12mths so that the next year they were not classed as a transfer in because they did not play reps that year.

You can ask for an exemption to try to get the transfer approved but it has to be a very good reason and sometimes BNSW looked after some Clubs and not others.

Tryouts always cut-throat and in my little corner of VJBL i've seen some bizarre selection decisions, but if it's below VJBL1 or 2, whatever, just roll with it and don't get caught up with delusions of grandeur.

Biggest problem once you get down a few levels is quality of coaching really drops away .... to many parent coaches that really don't know how to develop kids or a team. Often wonder if kids would be better off putting the hundreds of dollars of VJBL fees into some private actually useful coaching and playing an extra domestic game

The question is not "why are clubs poaching?" The question should always be "why are these players leaving?"

Why are the players leaving is often because they get told some BS by the Coach of the Association they are going too.Their parents are often told big stories and promises and believe what is said and on some occasions they find out it is not the truth and they have been suckered in.

Some get told that if they go to the Association where it is a State Coach in charge they will make the State team and guess what,it does not happen.

From what ive seen, the only players that really get "poached" are ones asked to come to a VC contender. Anyone else that has come from another club has left because they are not happy or some other issue.

I could be wrong but i highly doubt anyone is poaching players to join a VJBL1/2 team.

At the end of the day its rep basketball, it meant to be the best of what you can get. So yeah, some kids dont go to all the tryouts but still get picked in a high team because they know what they bring.

As Sonic said, the biggest issue every club has is the coaches on offer. Once you drop past the top few teams its usually just someone who puts there hand up. This is an issue for every club, big or small. The commitment for a VJBL rep coach is massive, something many are quick to judge people on but so few want to stick there own hand up to fill.

Keys willingly accommodates rep players who get cut from other surrounding tryouts especially if their parent is willing to coach. Sometimes those kids just attend 1 day of tryout or none at all depending on the division the kid played for the previous season. Notice that their tryout concludes a week after other surrounding club tryouts. This is a reality and often displaces kids who just tryout at Keys only.

Moral of the story, Keys is plan B. Try out at other clubs first.

I feel clubs and coaches need to put more pre-planning in - it's almosy like no benchmarks across clubs. Every try out I've ever been to 80% was pre decided. Common fault is not knowing players / their family background. Most clubs accept members. Only 1 club I've ever known the team 1 coach has taken oversight of all teams in their age group - like they are supposed to. Many just pick team 1 and everyone else for themselves.

+ - I am curious what you mean by a player's "family background" has to do with tryouts? Are you referring to children of former players?

A head/1s coach worth their salts should go into tryouts with a fair idea of who they will be picking with room for some tweaking around the edges.

Sounds like you are new to the rep system. Not sure what type of communication you were after regarding tryouts. Everyone was given dates of tryout sessions & once teams were announced an email was sent out with names & training details. It's not typical for clubs to give individual feedback with the incredible number of those who tryout - it is almost impossible to do so. I'm curious why you say some kids were never given a chance? As I saw it they had 3 tryout sessions + one for domestic - this is typical across all clubs. Everyone is given the same opportunity to tryout, the same opportunity that's given at every association, good kids miss out because they don't tryout well which may not seem fair but it's not unethical? Most clubs won't tell you this but teams can be changed & aren't officially finalized until the end of phase 1 grading, as per VJBL regulations. Changes up until this point if they feel a player hasn't suitably been placed or may be better placed elsewhere. Even after this point under extenuating circumstances players can be moved or added to teams as per VJBL approval. In terms of players being brought in after tryouts, this happens across all clubs & there are different circumstances for why this happens - I wouldn't assume to know why a child was accepted as you likely don't know the full story. I'm sorry you felt disheartened, but you've said your son did get a position on a team & there were a lot of kids across the state that didn't – my child included. If you aren't happy with the way the club is run & you think VJBL needs to hold them accountable, I'm curious why you are staying with the club this year? If you thought there was a more suitable club elsewhere also curious why you didn't try out there? If your that unhappy my child would happily take your son’s place.

@hbomb, without going into too much detail, I can totally understand @+'s comments regarding "family background".

There was one particular player at an Association who was picked in the "1"s teams at both U16 and U18 level over four consecutive seasons. In all four seasons that team played in VC. That player hardly got any game time and did not really have much influence on the games when on court.

Imho, and the opinions of several others, there were a few superior players who ended up in the "2"s teams over those seasons who played the same position as the player in question. The player in question was quite personable but didn't really belong in the "1"'s and didn't really show much development over the four years.

There was a view that this particular player always ended up the "1"'s team because their parents were quite involved in the Association and had a very close relationship with the then D.O.C..

Somebodys gotta sit on the bench even on a 1s team.

The bigger associations who often have deeper pools of players always aim to have 2 VC teams so some of the better players could be in the 2s while their 1s are played with a short but really solid lineup. Maybe the best 8 and not necessarily best 10.

Yes, I get that. But this Associaton hasn't had more than one team in VC at U16 or U18 level for a long time. In the past four seasons, the particular teams in question have always finished the season in the bottom half of VC Reserve.

It seems the player and their family were happy with them being in the "1"'s team because of the perceived "prestige". They certainly didn't seem to care about the player's development because the player has basically gone backwards in that regard. Interestingly, over the past two years, the player in question did not play any domestic level basketball either.

And it's possible there were other factors at play here than aren't public knowledge. However, the "family connection" is a compelling consideration in this particular instance.

hbomb - family background = so you know what is playing out off the court

hbomb - family background = so you know what is playing out off the court


Oh this took an unexpected turn. You're openly saying that coaches should discriminate against kids based on what is "playing out" off the court? Stuff that a kid likely has no influence over. What does it matter what is going on if the kid can play? What from a player's background/homelife are you implying that will influence the ability or potential ability of a player? What does it matter what is playing out off court so long as the kid puts in effort, turns up to all training and games and has the right attitude?

Lakers33 - I am fully aware that kids of former players or even siblings of players get picked for teams not because of talent (or attitude as many I have seen have shocking entitled attitudes) but purely their last name. They get offered more opportunities and more free passes than non-family linked kids. My kid got asked at a SDP tryout whether they were related to a particular player as they had the same last name. It is not a level playing field and that is a harsh reality for kids to learn.

I've known players who have gone onto nbl careers from rep sides who should never have been there, once in the system and with proper training and coaching and still the hand ups you can do alright. To the players that missed out, it’s disgusting but that’s the way life runs sometimes. Some of the players who have had hand ups still get found out but normally get a few seasons before they get cut.

That's funny hbomb - kids at our association just laugh about SDP - they know. Sad, but true.

BV seems to require a kid to attend at SDP before considering them for selection to a state rep squad, from what I've read on here.

Do other states take that approach?

Is it a genuine pathway to higher honours, or just a money-gouge by the association?

Can you give any estimates on how many kids deliberately choose to go into 2nds or lower because their family cannot afford the cost or time involved in going to tournaments which everyone in the 1sts will be expected to attend if they qualify?

I'm just saying that people need to be orientated to what is being set up / played out off the court. Not particularly "players" kids - (everyone no doubt has been a player at some stage). An influencers colours will soon show.

Hoopie - it's just not relevant. If the coaches want a player to play State they will construct an outcome. Otherwise it’s just a very random selection over a very short period for money making purposes. If someone could convince me otherwise then happy to hear it. It’s actually become quite funny.

If you don't sign up for SDP, you are ineligible for selection for the state team (Vic), this is true, they (BV) are so comfortable with this mandate that they happily put it in writing, smh.

Trying out for a representative team is obviously an emotional and challenging time for many young athletes and parents. The very nature of trying out introduces the risk of failure. For many young athletes, it will be the first time where they will be told they are not: at standard, not ready yet, not quite there. For others, the challenge will come later when they are not quite ready for the next level ie SDP or later BigV /NBL1..

Learning how to handle adversity is important. If you can't handle adversity you can’t progress and can’t improve. Probably one of the most important lessons a young athlete can have. And what better place to learn it than in a safe environment of community sport.

Not for everybody complaining about their association that got tryouts so wrong! Please remember that there would’ve been five or six coaches discussing each athlete and the best fit for teams. No association likes to cut young athletes. But unfortunately, they’re just isn’t enough Coaches, volunteer administrators, referees, or facilities to support the number of athletes that hope to be part of the programs. Firsthand experience this year over 180 young boys trying out for 60 positions and this is only medium size association. To the parents you can help. you can volunteer. You can coach there are courses you can do, get involved. Make a difference.

Spot on relaxed coach

Any club worth its weight knows its players so selections are almost made before a ball is bounced its a matter of filling spots and roles or creating more teams if there is depth.

"The very nature of trying out introduces the risk of failure. For many young athletes, it will be the first time where they will be told they are not: at standard, not ready yet, not quite there. "

@Relaxed Coach, everything you say makes sense in a FAIR system. However, the selection process is often not fair because it is biased. There are always situations where players of high standard, who are ready and who are "there" get passed over in favour of players who are familiar to the coaches because they have been in lower age Rep. teams, or because the coaches have a close association with particular players families. It happens, and it happens a lot.

"Any club worth its weight knows its players so selections are almost made before a ball is bounced"

@AssistantsPen, that is true. So why bother wasting time having Tryout processes?

How many players would bother to attend tryouts if they were told beforehand that the selection process would favour players who themselves and their families already have a close association with the coaches or the club or the association?

How many players would bother to attend tryouts if they were told before hand that ten players were required for the team and seven of them had already been selected beforehand?

The tryout process is a bit of a charade. And sadly many players (and their parents) often don't realise it until they have wasted a season or two trying to break into a team they were never going to break into regardless of the levels of skill, attitude and coachability that they have.

Having an idea of your team doesn't mean you've got it locked in.

Agree above

The tryout to maybe unearth a player who has drastically improved and not had the opportunity to compete against others higher up during the year.

Teams are pre selected no doubt, do they know exactly no, but they would have some idea. I just think parents, kids thinking that every year is a clean slate lets start a fresh are kidding themselves!! and makes me laugh

''oh that coach favours that player because they know them'' YEAH they will, clubs want winning, a coach isn't going to make a line ball call on a player they have never coached and will take the safe option of someone they know better or prefer call it favourtism call it whatever you like it makes sense.

Be so good they can't deny you is my advice and if you're not then you might not get what you want.

Rep is a mess at the lower levels but the taste of money can't get washed out of peoples mouths.

@koberulz, I'm talking specifically about the 1's teams.

The core of a 1's team is often carried through from U12's all the way through to U18's. This is a natural part of the development process that is used by many Associations. But as discussed above, there are a lot of other factors that come into play and those factors have a significant influence on how a team is selected.

For sure, a team is not locked in before tryouts. But imho most, if not all, of the starting 5 of a 1's team are pretty much a lock before the Tryouts. And because of this, I think Associations should be a lot more transparent in the way they conduct the selection process*. We are talking about kids lives here. Indeed, life isn't always fair. But be honest about these sorts of things up front. It would save a lot of unnecessary angst and frustration.

And it does not help that most Associations will not offer any feedback as to why a player wasn't selected.

(* - For example, players attending tryouts should not be permitted to tryout in Rep kit. Players who haver been preselected should not be involved in the early stages of tryouts.)

@AssistantPens, I agree with pretty much everything you say. Especially the part about where a lot of people think every new season is a "clean slate". That mindset also drives players and families to look at alternative associations in the belief that they will have a better chance to be selected. But players that try to move are often still subjected to the same obstacles at a new Association as they would be at their currenet one.

For me, the whole process should be transparent ... and it should be transparent at a State Level, not just at an Association level.

Nepotism might work for some in the short time, but ultimately destroys good things in the longer term.

The main clients of any sport are the players. The future of the sport is the potential players. Treat them poorly, and it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out what will eventually a happen.

So Lakers33 what you're saying is that Coaches and Clubs should ignore knowledge they have of a players in game ability, development level, skill set from anything other than what they see at tryouts? Any previous knowledge is a bias? You do also understand many times a player trains better (or worse) than they play.

People on here have tried to explain it to you, but you keep responding as a "what about my kid" parent.

Associations don't give feedback because coaches are volunteers and they have too many numbers to do so. In my experience when they have tried to, the feedback is generally disputed so why would they bother?

Transparent how so? Most Associations I see have a clear process, selection guideline available to everyone. It would be unfair to the coaches and most importantly the children involved for everyone to receive all the ins and out of the process and why they selected certain players over others. That's just madness and again smacks of a sooky parent who's only concern is their own child.

End of the day, most associations and clubs do the best they can with the resources, experience and knowledge they have within their program. You'll never get clear cut decisions that everyone in the stadium will agree on, doesn't happen at any level in any sport.

Remember at 1's level as you say you are mostly talking about, clubs are putting teams together to win. end of story. Coaches egos and reputations also mean they generally want to win. If your child is going to help them do that, they'll be picked.

Either encourage your child to go to a tryout, do their best, be coachable, follow instructions, be positive, make shots, be fit, have the skills needed to play a role .... or don't go.

FEEDBACK i love this comment

Let me tell you a story on feedback as a former pro coach, a player comes up to me and asks ''coach how can i get a better opportunity to make the game day squad and play more''

- in your position as a guard you need to do x y and z

- player goes away and gets better, problem is the player stopping them from progressing also got better so they still don't play

You said if i did x y z i would play!

What about my kid, they have a trainer, they practice everyday why didn't he make it 9 time out of 10 because he wasn't better than the kid in front of him!

''that kid made the 5th team because his dad is coaching'' YES he did, its the 5th team glorified domestic basketball playing division Metro 15 if you voluteer to deal with that shit you too can have your kid play.

I walked away from VJBL years ago to stay in the game at a higher level and glad i did because i think I left at the right time

A 1st team coach gets no weekends away with family to friends due to every tournament required to be at, parents, and they at some clubs get a small wedge $$ which when you break it down works out to be $20-$15 per hour for coaching. A horrible system that breaks more coaches than it grows. And sets unrealistic expectations for FAR too many families and players.

" The main clients of any sport are the players. The future of the sport is the potential players. Treat them poorly, and it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out what will eventually a happen."

The main game for clubs is coaches and volunteers. You don't have either and the club doesn’t function and doesn’t continue to exist. There’s always more kids coming along.

lol at giving detailed feedback on hundreds of kids in a trial process. As stated above you do that and all you get is hundreds of parents (most with no idea about the game) arguing back and forth with you so why bother. Also a great way for volunteer coaches to not bother signing up.

Parents need to be careful what they wish for. You don't want your kid in a team that means they get limited opportunities. They’d be better off developing and enjoying a lower level team. If they sit in the bench too long, they end up disheartened and give up. Happens a lot. That’s worse than being upset for a short time about being in a slightly lower team.

I'm talking specifically about the 1's teams.

But imho most, if not all, of the starting 5 of a 1's team are pretty much a lock before the Tryouts.

We are talking about kids lives here.

players attending tryouts should not be permitted to tryout in Rep kit

Players who haver been preselected should not be involved in the early stages of tryouts.

Seeing that somebody has suggested that tryouts are not fair and are biased. Let's put a few things into perspective. Firstly not fair and biased suggests a cognitive decision and a deliberate act to disadvantage a young athlete.
Now I can’t speak for the smaller clubs but I can assure you in the medium club I’m involved with and I suspect all of the larger clubs. There are enough people involved in the tryout process to normally get most of the selections, correct. Nobody tries to deliberately disadvantage a young athlete. Mistakes can be made errors happen but the majority goes well.

Regarding the imputation that tryouts are a charade, nothing could be further from the truth. People did not give up multiple evenings or weekends to participate in a charade.
Clubs and coaches are endeavouring to implement the best processes they can to ensure correct placement of athletes, into teams that maximise the development and competitive potential of each team.

If it was a charade clubs and coaches wouldn’t bother.! Medium clubs are putting in hundreds of volunteer hours to organise and run Rep tryout processes.
How about a bit more respect for the volunteers who give up their time to try and help today’s youth and support the community sports programs.

If associations don't have a general idea of where teams sit prior to tryouts then they're not doing their job. Sure things can and do change, but you have to have a rough idea before you start.