love_bball
Earlier this year

Natural ability vs. training and fundamentals

I wanted to ask a question about the best way to develop a child as a volume scorer.
At U12 level, it seems like the kids with natural speed and quickness always do better at scoring than kids with good fundamentals.

A footy kid with good foot speed, reaction to steal, however only right hand ability and only overhand (two handed) layup consistently scores. Their lack of basketball fundamentals does not seem to interfere with their ability to score.

Kid with sound fundamentals, good dominant and non-dominant handles with eyes up, through the legs, behind the back, underhand/overhand layups with right, overhand layup with left, proper footwork, good shooting technique, etc. This kid practices a lot on the side to keep developing their fundamentals. He is an inconsistent scorer overall and never seems to have that one career game where he scored heaps.

As those kids progress over time, are fundamentals and extra trainings ever going to outweigh the natural ability? And if they are, at what age? I've seen some U14 games as well and it seems to still come down to speed, I haven't watched much basketball in older age groups.

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+  
Earlier this year

everyone is different - as long as they are enjoying the sport and learning. Seen huge kids dominate in the paint at U10/12 level because they grew early - adhoc shooting and no footwork etc but can't be stopped - 20 ppg by u16s they have to play other spots and never developed in those areas.

IMO U14s is where the skill level is required - a skilled U12 is a bonus.

If you look at the average motor development teenage years are where skill development can be refined.

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Hedge  
Earlier this year

What are they doing on D? Help D? Boxing out? Assists?

Kids and parents always too focused on scoring.
At U12 age most scores are layups or scoring in the paint, most can do that. I spend more time watching the kids who don't have the ball.

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love_bball  
Earlier this year

"everyone is different - as long as they are enjoying the sport and learning."
He's definitely enjoying it and learning lots along the way.

"Seen huge kids dominate in the paint at U10/12 level because they grew early.."
Yes, I can understand why, they clean up the boards and get a lot of putbacks.

What I'm referring to is mostly kids on the short to medium height that have naturally fast feet, hands and well developed hand eye coordination which all usually come with more aggressiveness, all of these skills are used in footy and most of those boys play footy, so more often than not, that allows them to develop those abilities further.
On the other hand, they lack basketball fundamentals, which my son has and diligently works on.

Another point I forgot to mention is that shorter to medium height boys play guards (which I agree with), so if team plays a lot of press, that gives them opportunities to utilise their quickness to steal and score.

"IMO U14s is where the skill level is required - a skilled U12 is a bonus."
That's encouraging to hear!

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love_bball  
Earlier this year

"What are they doing on D? Help D? Boxing out? Assists?"
He has used the past 12ish months to work on his defense and has gotten so much better, he's a different kid. He understands when to help teammates on D as well and is really good at running back, as I said he's not the fastest and that doesn't stop him from usually being one of the first 2 boys to get back in transition.
Boxing out is a work in progress, at this age group, 99% of the boys run under the hoop and wait for the ball, so it's usually tallest kid (not him) that rebounds the ball.
There's no real opportunities for assists as he simply doesn't handle the ball enough during the game.

"Kids and parents always too focused on scoring."
This, I think, is driven more by coaches, not parents as it's usually kids that score that get the minutes. Sure, every kid wants to and loves to score, it's our job as parents to teach them there's soooo much more to basketball than that.

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Hedge  
Earlier this year

" This, I think, is driven more by coaches, not parents as it's usually kids that score that get the minutes. "

I disagree. I coach u12 Vjbl and the scoring output is definitely driven by parents more than coaches. Nearly every parent would be saying to their kid in the car on the way home “you did well, you scored 10points tonight” and not “you played great D tonight and dribbled with your eyes up”

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love_bball  
Earlier this year

"I coach u12 Vjbl and the scoring output is definitely driven by parents more than coaches. Nearly every parent would be saying to their kid in the car on the way home "you did well, you scored 10points tonight" and not “you played great D tonight and dribbled with your eyes up”
I can see your point, you may be right that definition of having played well is that you scored x points. The first question is did you win, second is how many points did you score.
I am really happy to hear that you coach at that level with eye for hard work, defense, assists. I always tell my son that hard work and trying is always going to come out on top over time. Little things matter, minor details like getting in front of a ball carrier on a fast break to stop him from dribbling further, following the ball when someone else shoots, etc.

When we train together, we do offensive and defensive drills as I want him to develop as a decent player.
Simultaneously with this, my observation so far from the last couple of years is as that scoring through natural speed and quickness rather than sound basketball fundamentals is prevalent in this age group.
Does working on fundamentals eventually prevail over natural talent in your experience?

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Hedge  
Earlier this year

The naturally athletic kids will always dominate in the lower age groups, especially when nearly all scoring is done under the basket or on fast breaks.
Same with defence until they learn to read the play better.

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hoopjunkie  
Earlier this year

The more athletic kid will always excel in sports in general. They generally also learn the skills faster. It is what it is. Life is unfair.

However, I've seen some unathletic kids in u12s develop their athletic ability mostly by u14 top age to bottom age u16s. Not all, but some. The extra trainings will help them get there.

So just keep him motivated and keep on grinding. Practice shooting (mid range and 3pts) as it is a skill he can be elite at even if he doesn't develop his athletic ability. And it gets more significantly useful the higher the age group.

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Hedge  
Earlier this year

@hoopjunkie makes a good point in regards to training. Everyone is always focused on game night when they should be focused on the two training sessions each week. Kids get way more out of that than they do from 15-20min of court time on a Friday night. If the parents have half a brain they will be reinforcing this with them.

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Shotblocker  
Earlier this year

Un12 loooong way to go yet, just let them enjoy the game , they aren't playing for a sheep station at this age, you watch parents on Friday nights, they want it more than their kids , again they are UN12, which means 9-10-11 yr olds , no such thing as elite at this age, they will grow and every time they do their shot, speed and attitude will change , just enjoy the fact they are out having fun

Reply #948736 | Report this post


Karma Basketball  
Earlier this year

@Hedge,

It's oft said ...

Game Time = Exam
Team Training = School
Private Practice = Homework

For any player aspiring to be the best they can be, Team training is nowhere near enough these days.

The players that usually end up doing the best are usually the ones that spend several hours a week doing PURPOSEFUL private practice, with a private coach, with squads or academies, and by themselves.

Every player in a Rep Team is playing a game, and attending two training sessions a week. That's normally about 3 to 4 hours a week. The smart players know that doing much more than that will give them an edge. The players putting in 8 to 10 hours (or even more) a week will accelerate their development.

This is a challenge for parents because extra structured training costs a lot of money and requires a lot more time and support on the part of the parents. And like most things in life, doing the extra stuff does not come with a guarantee.

But it all comes down to hours. The more hours you put in, the greater the rewards will usually be.

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