The perennial question. The conundrum of conundrums.

The answer you get till depend on who is giving it to you.

Most DOCs will publically say players are chosen on merit. That is true to some extent. However, what they deliberately fail to tell you is how they define "merit".

Most, if not all, Selection Panels will say the same thing as the DOC because it is in their interest to do so.

As for your particular situation, it depends on the two players you are talking about.

IME, players aren't competiting for a spot on the team per se. They are actually competiting for a spot for a particular position on a team. So, if there are several potential Point Guards, they will be competiting against each other for the limited PG positions. They would not be considered for other positions on the team.

During Tryouts, the smart players aren't looking to compete against everyone else at the Tryouts. They just look to compete against players of similar height, size, etc.

Afaic, the Associations I've experienced tend to pick 80% of the players for their 1st team prior to Tryouts. In the older VJBL groups, these players and / or their parents usually have a history with the Association. So the remainimg players are usually competiting for three or four spots. Depending on the desired team structure, many players outside of the preferred group may end up competiting for one spot on the 1st team. Many of those players will end up in the 2nd team if they are future prospects for the 1st team in the following season. Otherwise, they are likely to end up in the 3rds of lower depending on the number of players at Tryouts.

It also helps if a player is quite tall. They tend to be the first to be noticed and picked for teams, especially the ones with athletic ability.

A lot of juggling with trials. Imports, PTT's, domestic kids, who will stay, who will accept, will they prefer 3's at a strong club over 2's at a weaker club. If we don't pick them in our 1's, will they definitely leave?

I do agree you pick for position generally, many clubs also want a mix of bottom and top age. If you top 3-4 teams are all top age, you're asking your bottom aged kids in team 5 to play VJL8 and in 12 months time, compete for VC.

Smart clubs will try and balance win now with win next year.

Of course, in selection room, there can be strong voices. "I know that kid, bad attitude", or "seen that kid, doesn't play D".

I also feel for the kids who play team ball, compete, box out, play D, but don't create their own shot, make the right pass, they simply don't stand out at trials.

Having said all that, I am a strong believer in speaking with the coach who coached them before. That rarely happens from what I've seen.

It is really unfortunate when selectors do not speak with the previous coach, I think. Particularly in relation to kids who will not necessarily stand-out in a try-out because they are more team-orientated / defensively minded. Been involved in try-outs for some time now, and the biggest errors I have seen probably would have been solved by some form of hand-over from one age group coach to another. Need to be careful for this to not continue prejudice / bias, but really to ensure that a kid who brings great energy / chem or a point of difference through defence is not missed. Also need to look to the future - is the kid a hard worker that we can develop well in our programme, as opposed to being big and good enough for now. This is the reason why football clubs have list managers - to ensure that sensible decisions are made for the future of the programme and not just to suit the current coach.

This is also the issue with high performance selections - they don't seem to take into account what happens during a season but make decisions based on a short try-out (and even shorter than a rep one) and are results driven so focus on the kids who are right now, which is fair enough.

Ultimately, it’s all quite subjective and errors will certainly be made. Kids with tenacity fight through it, and part of being able to do that is to accept (and for families to accept) that they can and need to keep improving, and to accept that the system will never be perfect and people are trying their best to make decisions.

why not have a referee (not the umpire sort) on your application form - or list previous coach with phone number.

If a club doesn't do their homework - it will show.

Seeing a lot of clubs around just take the flashiest player - immediate results seem to be what they are after. Winning and profile.

The top coaches usually already know the players that are positioned to be in the top 1 and 2 teams so the tryouts should just validate what they know and/ or to see how the 'imports' play with and against those players.

I was involved in junior programs for a short period of time, I removed myself from anything to do with it because of the mates act, it was total BS. I have a friend that is still involved but he sits on the sideline, won't involve himself in the politics, he told about a state team selection this season, I won’t mention the age group or area, this state team went on to get beaten, registering only wins against the minnows, he told me the three best players didn’t get selected because the mates act was required to get there mates players in the team in there positions. It’s just the way it is unfortunately.

Thanks all, it certainly is a less than simple scenario.

The two boys I spoke of. Both are very tall for their age (bottom age 12's) and the outcomes were so different. In my eyes they better boy was left some 5 teams below the other boy, and I seriously cannot understand given their abilities. Even when you look at their domestic history the boy in the lower team has been competing in A Grade whilst the boy that got selected higher was 8 grades lower. Neither parent group have 'mates' in the association so I can't see any bias going on.

I suppose at this age the main thing is that both are in the system and will develop superbly with the right assistance.

I look at it this way... these parents are paying some $700-$800 for the 11 months of the VJBL season. Thats some 2.5 hours a week with access to proper coaches for a cost of around $10 an hour! Money well spent!

Time will tell, maybe I'm a terrible talent scout!

It may well exist, but I think there would be value in a "best practice" paper on try-outs for all associations to follow. I know there are a few FAQs out there, which are often short and really focussed on telling parents to not contact the association (fair enough). But there must be enough old heads around who have seen and heard it all that could pull together a very helpful guide for clubs, coaches, players and parents.

Selection is always an inexact science. Putting more time put into the process (more trial and pre-trial sessions, feedback from previous coaches, actually watching domestic games, etc) will improve it and get better results. This takes time and effort and can sometimes be a bit much to ask of individuals essentially volunteering their time.

It's unfortunate when a good kid gets overlooked for selection in higher teams. This can put them in the slow lane for development and it can be difficult to get out of the slow lane and into the fast lane. It's not impossible though especially if a kid gets into the system early and is willing to put the work in.

Having experienced other sports it seems to me that Basketball is one of the most inflexible when it comes to recognising and nurturing players at all levels through their junior journey.

Representative basketball is quite prejudiced.

1/ Limited Tryout period where there are often Tryout session clashes across different assocations particularly those in close geographic proximity to each other. That limits the options available to players.

2/ If players have previously played for a particular association then they are tied to that association. They require PTT to tryout at other associations. That seems to prioritise the association over the player. Afaic, once a VJBL season is over, the association should no longer have any control over the player.

3/ There is a very short window in which associations can adjust Representative teams (ie move players between them, or accept new players from outside). This contrasts with some other sports (eg Cricket) where players can be promoted / demoted between teams based on performance or need at any time during the season. With VJBL, once a player is locked into a team, they pretty much stay there.

4/ Which means that once a player is locked into a VJBL team, there is little incentive for them to continue to perform at their best. Some may say that Game Time is the incentive. But again IME, game time tends to be a function of Coach preference. The best players at the start of the season or "political" imperatives are the ones that continue to get the most Game Time regardless of their ongoing performance. I've seen situations in some teams where certain players do a lot of extra training and practice outside, perform really well with the limited minutes they are given, but never get more Game Time than the "favoured" players (ie the Starting Five) who can cruise. There seems to be a lot of nepotism in junior basketball at Rep level. The only sport I've experienced that is worse is Junior Soccer.

Anyone who asks me about VJBL, I say treat it as another opportunity to develop your game (your child's game). The training sessions are immensely valuable and Game Time should be viewed as a bonus. For the kids that get stuck on the bench watching more than playing, I say to them, use the experience as an opportunity to observe the particular players in positions that are suited to your physique. So if you are a potential PG, then watch what all the PGs are doing and take the best from that. Same with the coaching, listen to everything every coach tells you, and take on board the stuff you can use to get better while discarding the rest.

Most importantly, EVERY player is on their own individual journey. There will always be obstacles and the true measure of a player is how they deal with the problems the encounter and the solutions they find for them.