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What has thon maker done except sit on the bench in nba , last about five games in Israel before getting cut and going to g league, wasn't that good in China. Please explain the fascination.

Thon wouldn't have stood a chance against the German muscle. And, while he’s a good outside shooter, if he’s taking threes then he’s obviously not rebounding, which is where we’d need him most.

Doubt if he was going to be the saviour we were looking for.

Agree with patty, fiba is not the nba. Pinder and Thon are suited to fiba.
Thon was are best Asian cup player and one of the best in qualifiers.

Thon beat up in Asian qualifying, we've sent second and third string teams who have done that.

He has a motor, he alters shots, he can shoot, he would be Aus tallest player...

How many games have you seen where teams were bullied down low? This tournament, less paint points than ever before.

Maker and Reath have almost identical league records, and I know what they looked like in the CBA.
It's different to compare the league and international competitions.
Did Maker play like the SF he is in the Asia Cup? No. He played for the team.
We can fully utilize Maker.
His height is attractive and his outside defense is good.
I'm not saying that Maker is a good individual player, I'm saying that there are plenty of good players out there who can fully utilize his strengths.

Thon Maker (who I wanted in the side) is a SF is he?

His entire pro career says otherwise, but sure.

Maker is a C, but he's more of a PF.

It's makes more sense having a 7ft Maker available to play spot minutes than Daniels logging zero minutes because we selected too many guards

We didn't lose the game due to height, nor can I see an offensive strength which Maker brings which would have altered things.

Agree that Daniels shouldn't have been picked after Landale went down.

We are clearly missing an additional interior player that has some mobility.

Either Maker or Pinder would have been more useful.

Pinder was injured and he's not that big, interior presence is a big mobile body which neither Maker or Pinder are. Cooks and White are both better than them. If anything, Reath should have got more time at expense of Kay. Big seven footers are rare and since Bogut and Baynes are gone it’s a soft spot for boomers.

Absolutely we should've taken Maker instead of Daniels after Landale injury. 100% agree.

But, such is life. Cooks had been super. Doubt Thon would've changed tonight's result. He would've been injury insurance for our bigs. Not playing big minutes in a game like this.

Cooks has* been super

In terms of player value, Cooks and White could be better. Of course I think so too.
But do we demand a lot from Maker? Do you ask him to play the role of Patty? No.
I'm saying again, he's well worth it if you only use his strengths.
Usually the 11th and 12th players are hard to play in the game, but wouldn't 1 guard and 1 big be better than 2 guards?

Size hasn't been the issue thus far. It's been everything else. I'd sooner put Delly in for Goulding than put Maker in for anyone. If I were replacing a Nick Kay I'd be doing it probably with Keanu Pinder. Fact of the matter is we've got two deep bench guys we're doing nothing with, and yet the myth of the "specialist shooter" of Goulding persists.

Size hasn't been the issue.....yet, we'd really benefit from a Bogut type screener/post- passer/rebounder/rim protector.
Baynes would have had a valued presennce tonight too.
Could Pinder or Maker, or a fit Humpheries fulfull any of those facets? Partly yes.

To me they'd be valuable as an inside option to mix up the offense and make our overall offense less predictable than it currently is.
Lets be honest, it looked like we had to work harder to score than Germany did, and I believe that's in part due to the abscence of a big body screener and post passer.

Pinders last season highlights as a reminder of how much he improved under Forde and the team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=514XXdxp2vk&t=563s





Thin makers asia cup highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVin0cDzhd4&t=219s

Pinders' pick and roll alone would add a much needed extra dimension to the boomers offense right now.

Size doesn't matter.
Yes, our inside defense is fine, but think of it from the opposing team's point of view.
We have a lot of good defenders, but we don't feel threatened when our opponents attack the rim.
I am not saying that Kay and White are not doing well.
Imagine you have a 7-footer as your secondary defender in a game like today.
Whenever Schroder does a PNR or rim attack, he can obviously be tricky.

The value of Thon Maker in fiba is his ability to switch the pick and roll, contain and truly contest perimeter jump shots on switches, and get chase down blocks if he's beat off the dribble. He is valuable as a rim protector from the weakside. In transition his speed forces the opposing teams first line of defense (usually perimeter players) to pick him up defensively. This creates more opportunities for the Boomers perimeter players to attack or get open perimeter looks. He is also a decent perimeter threat, finisher in transition, and has shown a willingness to play team ball and a commitment to defense.
For those of the "what has Thon Maker done in the NBA" crowd, I ask this. What has Nick Kay, Duop Reath, Xavier Cooks, Jack White done in the NBA or realistically going to do in the NBA?
Some people on this forum have their thump up their you know where because Maker was drafted at 10 in the NBA. Get over it. Some guys don’t even get a sniff and some guys go undrafted and come good. Some guys do terribly but come good later. This is fiba and the World Cup basketball, not the NBA.

Looking up Thon Maker's fiba qualifier stats vs Nick Kay fiba qualifier stats.

Maker: 11.7ppg 7.7rpg 1.8apg 14.9 efficiency

N. Kay: 7.7ppg. 5.1rpg 3.1apg. 13.9 efficiency

I did not use Kay’s actual WC and Olympics stats because it would drop his stats because the level of competition rises.
So if we’re sticking with fiba and not "what did you do in the NBA" thought process this is not a cut Kay keep Maker thing. It’s combing their strengths to make up for the loss of Landale by cutting a Dyson or Goulding who you are not using.
Also while I’m on the “what did Maker do in the NBA crowd” Maker was actually very promising in back to back playoffs with the Bucks defensively and as a floor spacer. He actually started when the chips were down against the Celtic and produced back to back 5 blocks games. GM changed and head coach changed and trade happens. But to post like Maker was never productive is a lack of understanding of basketball and probably a product of watching to many damn mixtapes.

Thank you so much for writing down everything I wanted to convey.

What did Maker do in Israel?? , that is fiba basketball, he certainly not on the high agenda of euro league teams or he would not have gone back to the g league.
Cooks will get more time in nba and possibly White as well than Maker did.

You don't seem to understand the point at all.

I'm not certain you understand my point, he played in a fiba competition and didn’t make two months, we all have favourites but the love for maker is not shown in his performances that get me excited. I rule out the Asian cup.

Anyway each to there own, that’s why we are all here.

In the first half last night, with the small line up, each time Kay shot the 3, the only boomer in the paint was Reath and he was compeating with three defenders for the rebound.
Did we have any second chance points from offensive rebounds in the first half? Very few, if any.

That's where a taller interior presence would help (as well as a post scorer/passer and screener)
That doesn't seem to really be Maker's game (although I am a big fan of him)

So who would be best suited to this team?
Someone (Weedy?) said Baynes was not going to be considered because of off court issues, so who else is there?
Pinder? Humpheries?

It wasn't me who said Baynes was not included because of what happened in Tokyo.
I said creek wasn’t invited.


The local C options are

Pinder
Makers
Wessels
Gaks
Olbrich
Humphries
Hunter
Magnay
Froling
Baynes
Zikarsky
Even Simmons

+

Kay
Cooks
Landale
Reath

Dunkman I'll research other Aussies first 4 years in the NBA. I’ll also go to other leagues where euro leagues where an Aussie didn’t have success and moved to another that was more suited if that helps.
We’re talking about the depth of a team in fiba not your personal dislike of a player.

Dunkman, Did I say cut Kay, White, Cooks, and Reath and pick up Maker? I said cut one of the two guards we never use in the 11th-12th.
Players like Kay and White might be better than Maker, but with Maker's strengths (as explained by DraftBust), he might actually be a better player against a team like Germany.

Sorry Weedy, my bad.

Someone did say it had to do with how he got injured in Tokyo.

I think it was ME (not me).

Knockdown3, I've only talked about players selected by Boomers for their reserve roster.
I initially said that when Baynes wasn't on the reserve, he should have been on the reserve, but he wasn't picked anyway, so I didn't mention him anymore.
Maker is not an inside scorer, but he has his own advantage that the rest of the players lack.

Noted Patty, good point.

Perthworld, haha, yeah it was ME,

It was the 0 - 8 run at the start of the first quarter and he 0 - 10 run at the start of the last quarter that had a far greater impact than a Thon Maker or similar.

Same thing happened in a few of the other games as well. Fix this and the selection or non selection is not relevant.

Also missed free throws hurt badly, we won a bronze medal with Sobey on the bench, let that sink in.

I like Maker, love his attitude with the Boomers and his commitment, but I'm not sure what his role could be. I'm not sure that he offers anything over Cooks or White, despite his superior height. Maker's a shooter who hasn't improved his perimeter shot since his rookie year. He can hit it, but it's still not consistent. His rebounding is good against smaller competition, but at FIBA World Cup level? He doesn't have much of an inside game. He offers some rim protection, but is it better than the smaller White or Cooks? So what exactly does Maker offer over Cooks or White? A few centimeters?

If he were Landale-lite, or if he were expected to develop into a Landale type player, maybe he can be included at the end of the bench. But it's hard to argue that Maker has a lot more development in him. We are really missing Landale. I had Landale as our second leading scorer, pick-n-roll option for Giddey, inside defensive presence, can put in effort against opposition bigs.

I think just having that extra option last night. We only have 4 "bigs" total and all a part of the rotation. If one isn't working, its hard to find another option (one is going with Ingles at the 4). Last night both White and Kay were struggling and Reath had troubles with his positioning defensively as well. That left Cooks as really our only reliable big. If we had another option we could go with it MIGHT have helped.

That isnt to say I think Kay or White should be dropped out of the rotation, its just that the matchup didnt work for either one last night.

Instead we have Daniels taking up that spot at by for our strongest position.

Rjd it's what does Maker offer over Goulding and Daniels who do not play.
Maker is a 31% career 3pt shooter (32.7 in the NBA) and while it is not anything to write home about it is a descent enough clip. A few centimeters changes the trajectory of shots, gets deflection, covers space. Size will matter in the long run. If he contributes well in that moment that’s situational then you have added to your depth as opposed to having players sit who you won’t play. In qualifiers Maker has been good as Kay. The coaching staff should have at least given him a go in the warm up games to see what you have. Then you save the necessity of having to recall a player when Landale goes down.

11th / 12th guys aren't being played anyway. You have to be on the court to make a difference. Maker would've only taken minutes from frontcourt players: Reath, Kay, White, Cooks. Might be able to add Thybulle and Ingles there because they've played 4 at times. I recollect Ingles played 5 at one stage, but I could be wrong. So who is he taking minutes from?

It's not how big you are, it's how big you play.

I like Maker and expected he would be an automatic sub when Landale went down, but I see what Cooks and White are doing and can't argue against the coaching staff.

"Instead we have Daniels taking up that spot at by for our strongest position. "

This is the point here. It seems like the decision was made to take Daniels as a development opportunity being around the team and getting some burn if there are blowout games like in the opener.

RJD I view it from a depth chart perspective as opposed to your 11 and 12th man. If we're looking at fiba basketball and comparing apples to apples, Kay and Maker are statistically equal in similar qualifiers and I would even argue that Maker’s experience in playing significantly and at times starting in NBA playoffs where he impacted winning, counts as much as Kay’s experience in the Olympics and WC. So my view as a former coach is situational depth at the position where defensive length and mobility affects the outcome. Offensively as a runner in transition and a floor spacer Maker allows my guards to get downhill by pulling the help. He is a complimentary piece at the least and was as effective as Reath last year statistically ranking 17.9 to Reath 18.0.
CBA Stats for both players
Maker averaged 17ppg 10rpg 1.7bs
Reath averaged 18ppg 8rpg 2.0bs
So Maker is statistically comparable at the 5 with both Kay and Reath in similar competition and is a very good "11th or 12th" man to have as a backup who may have effected winning with his versatility.

Great comparison and analysis DraftBust.

For a 7 footer, Maker can run the floor very well - a great asset in a tean designed to operate in transition.