Kayo is the best money I've spent on. NBA tv is pretty good to but the App has issues.

NBA League Pass has gone downhill massively the past two years. I found it almost unwatchable last season, it was buffering all the time. I suspect it was because I didn't go premium. Fair enough, I don't expect the service to be as good as premium, but I should still be able to actually watch the games I pay for! (It's not my connection either - every other streaming service performs fine). So this season, for the first time since League Pass started, I might not subscribe and just roll with Kayo instead.

Boomers, to athletic and to deep. It will be a good contest but boomers by 8 plus.

Franz Wagner is in doubt with an ankle injury

Olgun wrote:

Franz Wagner is out for tonight's Australian Boomers vs Germany game, he told ESPN. Wagner suffered a left ankle injury in the 4th quarter of Germany’s FIBA World Cup opener vs Japan.

Should be a good game, though that game last night SSD V Pur was epic to watch , some good athletes in that lot

Got some work to do but confident here

My guess it's tight for the first quarter and a half, boomers start to take control end of second quarter and flows into second half

Boomers by 8+

Wagner of the F variety being out is huge.

You'd expect a solid 10+ point win if Franz is out.

Gaze is on the mic with one of those awful FIBA commentators.

Dam no D being played. we suck early.

Ugh Boomers

Giddey sucking hard.

Goorg absolutely gave it to giddy. Early days, German bench not as good as ours.

Take Giddey off. Let him brush his hair on the bench if he wants play like this.

Godfrey has gifted Germany about 10 points already purely through lack of effort on defence.

No urgency from Giddey, it tells you everything when the whole timeout was Goorjian looking directly at him. Kid doesn't get it, still too casual after the TO.

What would we do without FIBA Patty?

PATTY MILLS BEAST MODE

Patty would have 60 by now if he wasn't cooked

Yep goorj should change the lineup if you are not putting in the effort.

I was one of those people who thought Giddy was an absolute must for this team. But watching him there in the first quarter, I would have taken Delly over that type of play

Giddey just watching players go around him.

Patty came up big at the bloody right time.

Aussies now have to get the defence right after the German warning shots

Giddy still very young, fiba to nba totally different, boomers got this, German bench not deep.

Not being a hater, but wish Casey would learn some new phrases / lines...

Giddey comes off we get the lead.

Giddey comes back on we lose the lead...

Dante needs to keeptaking that mid range jumper, he can get that shot all night.

Good D from Cooks and Green.

This German offense is nice to watch.
Their D is solid too.

Why the fuck are we not defending the 3 ball???

GordonG - Casey's go-to lines are my comfort food :)

Still a damn shame Gaze isn’t on the ESPN call.

No ball movement, Bogut made us so much better...

Yeah nah Giddey shooting contested threes off the dribble should get him benched.

Tech fouls


Do they exist?

Weedy, definitely missing a tall post passee, rebounder and screener.

Boomers offence looks like me running 5k. Out of rhythm and a struggle

Why are Boomers "weak doubling" Schroder. Either completely double or play him straight up. He's too good and just waits for the slow double to come to exploit

The Giddey experiment isn't working. Either rest him until Japan or make him attack the basket and draw fouls but stop him carrying the ball!!!

For all our spruiking our athleticism and height, we’re not using the first and the second isn’t stopping Germany’s shots or rebounds.

However, I don’t think we’re out of first gear yet, so there’s a lot we can do better.

Put Dante, Green or Thybulle on Schroder please!

Cooks is so bloody good. Can't believe I thought he should’ve been cut (when Jock was still in).

Giddey struggled first half in the opener too, then found his feet as the game went on. Hopefully the same tonight because we need him contributing.

Not sure you can have Giddey, Mills and Ingles on the court together. Too easy for Germany to force a switch for Schroeder to take advantage of.

We're gettin eaten on the O boards

I would put Exum and Patty on together - at least Patty would get more assist passes, and Dante would take better advantage of the gaps when Germany doubles Patty

Exum needs to play more in the second half. We look so much better with him on the floor.

I want Exum or Green as a defender for Schroder

And how many fouls on the shot is that from the Boomers now?

Germany are playing jungle ball and we are trying to do the same.

Need to look after the ball

As above, wasn't certain on Cooks selection, I was wrong been great, more Exum required as well. Schroder is our Mills, the team goes as good as he does.

If Goulding and Daniels aren't playing, why the hell didn't they pick Maker?

Too slow moving the ball up the court, too slow moving the ball in the offensive set, too predictable on defence.

But I still think we have a lot we can improve, and should win this.

Germany have 2 offensive rebounds, and Australia are winning the rebound count, yet people always say we are getting destroyed on the glass

Against Finland it was Exum in the 3rd that really lifted the team. With the way Exum moves, I always feel nervous watching him dribble, but he's been good in recent games: penetrating, dishing, hitting the open 3, good defense. Euro experience is probably more valuable than Giddey's NBA experience.

Mills is a huge defensive liability

We don't need Giddey to carry the ball so much and be relied upon to initiate some offense as if it's the NBA. He's valuable enough as a passer in a regular offensive set. I'd like to see the fully switchable lineup again. It might've happened based on Germany's lineup at the time, but I thought the defense looked better at that time.

Goorj going with the same shit, change it up my man.

Exum
Mills
Green
White
cooks

Is it Schröder or Schroder? Either way they're pronouncing it as Schrüder, for some reason...

You can understand how good Gleeson teams, he's a basketball wizard even in the commentary box. Hopefully we hear him in the nbl.

Really concerned how reliant Boomers are on Mills though

"We don't need Giddey to carry the ball so much and be relied upon to initiate some offense as if it's the NBA."

That's the thing. He doesn't really do that in the NBA. He's second fiddle behind SGA. He's a great, great second option, but expecting him to run the offence at this level was always going to be a lot, which is why our starting five has so consistently looked trash.

The Canadian ref is quality

Not a fan of the minutes distribution, not enough green, white or cooks.

Plz have Gleeson and Bec Allen in the commentary team for the NBL

More minutes for Exum pls and thx

"Is it Schröder or Schroder? Either way they're pronouncing it as Schrüder, for some reason..."

Almost as if that's he pronounces it himself...

Not sure I like so many Ingles minutes. Not convinced about him so much

Dante out here playing like prime MJ and still getting spot minutes. Free my guy

Kay, ingles, Goulding doubtful to make paris imo.

"Is it Schröder or Schroder? Either way they're pronouncing it as Schrüder, for some reason..."

Almost as if that's he pronounces it himself...

Boomers bench far to good, boomers got this.

Not sure ya wanna lose today and face japan in Japan game 3.

You guys make me panic. I'm guest at a great dinner and sneaking a peak here.

Hopefully we can kick on with our depth and get the w.

Kay getting targeted

Kay getting cooked everytime.

Kay trying to defend the guard. BBQ chicken

0-10

Absolutely shocking start again

Moron alert from goorj, 3 times Kay got dismantled in a row.

Why is White playing more than Cooks? Ffs

Sub Kay for Cooks please.
We need defense

Kay has clay feet. He's a defensive liability.

Credit where it's due. Germany are an unbelievably smart team strategy wise

Get kay off...

Kay sucks

Why is Kay back on?
Put Reath on!!

Kay dodged a bullet on that play.

Agree MACDUB, they are very well coached and execute with 'German precision'

That is why Kay should never have been picked. Too slow, defence sucks.

Watching the live scores. It's freekin killing me.

Kay is a good player but he just doesn't suit this game

People don't look at the opponents he faced in 1 on 1 in Tokyo vs this WC

Reath was huge in the 3rd.
Now hes living on the bench.
What the??

I would rather have Thon in the team than Kay

The German coach is Canadian

turnover

Wtf is Kay out there???

Kay is uncoordinated. Not intentional.

How does Gaze not see the foul there on Kay. Lmao

Reath was huge in the 3rd.
Now hes living on the bench.
What the??

Brian has not a clue

Should they be allowing that time out to be filmed?

turnover

I picked a bad week to give up meth!

Australia deserves to lose this match. Too many turnovers, thumbles, bad defense, bad team selections.

We needed Reath, Exum, Thybulle out there with Mills

Goorj out for paris...

Dribble, dribble, dribble, turnover.

Shame on Giddey for handicapping from the start.

Kay dodged a bullet on that play.

Take him off the team, for Christ sake.

Very poor foul shooting and turnovers made a big difference.

Shame on Giddey for handicapping us from the start.

Poor ball protection, terrible FT shooting. Didn't deserve to win that. If this is what we're gonna dish up, no way we're getting past the 2nd round.

We lost to Germany without Franz Wagner.

Make your free throws!

Shame on Giddey for handicapping us from the start.

Kay is the biggest culprit.

I'm a big Nick Kay fan, but he shouldn’t have been out there in Q4. Poor coaching

That's a wrap fellas. In my eyes that was a must win. IF we get through to qtrs now we’ll likely face Canada or USA as it will be very hard to finish 1st in pools.

Goorj and co no more.

Start Exum, green played hard, cooks at centre, Thybulle pf

Great game, who ever lost this game could feel unlucky, Cooks was great but you got make free throws. Kay does a tremendous amount of good work but is getting too slow for today's game.

I thought Thybulle was going to play the 4 after Kay was being burnt.

Why would they not replay that final shot attempt? Was it after the buzzer?

Yeah, no point blaming Kay - he did his best; if he couldn't cope then the coach should have replaced him. It’s on the coach.

Goorj cost is that game with some bizarre lineups....

Kay the obvious one. Why Exum didn't get more minutes is beyond me.

Criticism of Boomers is all an over reaction remember.

Just hysteria!

Yeah, no point blaming Kay - he did his best; if he couldn't cope then the coach should have replaced him. It's on the coach.

___________


should not be in the team in first place.
Maker at least provides better defence, athleticism.

Unless Theis got all ball, the trajectory of Giddey's shot makes it seem like it was a foul.

PARIS POOL

G
Mills
Vasiljevic
Mcdowell-White
Proctor
Exum
Giddey
F
Green
Thybulle
Simmons - can't shoot but can do everything else
P
White
Cooks
Pinder
Reath
Landale
Maker


Out
Goorjian
Patrick
Nielsen
Goulding
Ingles
Kay

Daniels'

This team is missing rim protection, a big that can switch defensively and contain the ball plus truly contest perimeter jump shots on switches, and additional rebounding. Kay is necessary for some games that suit him. When Landale was lost why take Goulding and Daniels and not take an emergency big like Maker. And why not go with Reath down the stretch. He plays within the system. Bad loss.

On the Schroder pronunciation: https://youtu.be/3AAli4hndR8

Thought he played an excellent game. Him vs Patty was a great battle.

I don't want to single out individuals, but the coaching in the 4th was very questionable.
Why persist with Kay late when they scored 8 quick points on him at the start of the quarter?
Reath was very solid in the 3rd and he got nothing in the 4th.
Virtually no Exum too, after he played excellent when he was on.
Not to harp on it, but we really miss the offensive structure from the Lemanis era.
Its evident when we have two late turnovers from over dribbling - clear evidence of not enough offensive execution....or no trust in it.

Cooks was solid at both ends, the only thing was his free throw shooting and reluctance to take advantage of the mismatch on Schrüder and post him up down low.

Granted, Germany were never going to be an easy opponent. They are very well drilled and defend well.

Our lineup to start the 4th that went -10 in just over 2mins:

Giddey
Exum
Green
White
Kay

Not enough shooting and polish offensively with how Giddey was playing to that point.

I'm confused as to why we were switching with Kay on-court in the 4th when he was getting cooked in isolations, then in soft coverages with Cooks on-court, which doesn't play to his strengths.

No doubt there are reasons behind the rotations and general decision-making that we're not privy to, but the consensus is that our coaching staff bungled that one.

Germamy's coaching made the difference, but they still relied on heroics. Lo and especially Schroder. The iso play exploiting Kay and negating the defensive depth of the Boomers.

Gleeson said it was after the clock, there was only 1.7 seconds left when Giddey got the ball and took a few dribbles. You got win the game before chucking it up from three quarter court in the last second to achieve a tie.
I doubt australia will change coaches this close to Olympics but Gleeson is the man if they decide to.
Cracking game, basketball is the winner.

Starting line up yet again didn't work.

Exum changes the flow (again) and only plays 16 minutes.

Constant line ups that pretty much lay out the red carpet for Schroder to get to the hoop.

Kay getting isolated by their guards again and again yet stays out there.

Seriously, that was genuinely poor coaching. Yeah Giddey sucked to start, yeah we missed FTs, yeah we fumbled the ball away, but jeez... Goorj needs to take a good hard look in the mirror. His stubbornness may have already cost us a semi final spot.

Slovenia/Georgia in the cross pool.

Underestimate japan and we will be going home.

Goorj didn't seem to be making the offensive calls, seemed like it was more Carporn. Messy stuff.

A three-point loss to one of the best teams in the tournament with a banked triple a crucial play, and some want the coach sacked and have the team changed! The hysteria is brilliant.

Two stints, 0-8 to start the game and 0-10 to start the 4th were the issue. There was no defensive disruption in those two small stretches. Without that disruption, this unit can get picked apart by good teams (like most Boomers teams along the journey).

We need to beat Japan and hope Greece beats NZ.

None of this awkwardness of not making Olympics

I don't want to single out individuals, but the coaching in the 4th was very questionable.

---------

Exum should have played alot more minutes.
Instead of Kay, Reath should have played the majority of 4th quarter.
The coach made some bad selections in this match.

Exum in for Giddey running the point and we'll be fine.

I've never seen Goorjian defer so much to an assistant before though, which was interesting.

Even Gleeson saying Kay should be on the bench, saying he's a fantastic player and worker, just need a different look.

Yep, the coaching decisions in the 4th were very strange
We went away from what worked in the 3rd.
The failure to call a time out in the USA game at Tokyo when they went on their big run was also bizzar.

Need to change the starting line up and rotations/combinations going forward.

Agree Dunkman, Gleeson would be ideal.
Where's Bevo these days.

"Instead of Kay, Reath should have played the majority of 4th quarter."

Reath would have been the target of the German offence as well. Cooks in for Kay was the right move, but they shouldn't have been switching Kay onto the guards at the top of the arc early in the shot clock, that was either a poor scout or poor execution on the floor (I think poor scout because it happened a few plays in a row).

Weedy, it's Rocco time

Hysteria, mouse?

Yes, we lost to a strong team, but we HAD THEM for much of the game and just needed to see the game out. Our offense looked out of sync a lot, we missed foul shots ffs, and we didn't replace the poor bugger who was getting burnt so much with someone who had provided energy and mobility.

"The hysteria is brilliant."

People saying Germany will beat this Aussie team and then Germany proceeds to beat said Aussie team is not “hysteria”, it's valid criticism and acknowledgement of reality.

The way Australia played is pretty much bang on for the various criticisms levelled at the makeup of this current team.

The most hysterical reaction here is the person doubling down against those that were vindicated with the way that game was played and the consequential result.

Big rocco fan, think being ready in 8 months is not realistic.
France alone will have we,by and potentially Embiid.

Even Gleeson saying Kay should be on the bench, saying he's a fantastic player and worker, just need a different look.

----------

He is a reliability on the defensive end. Just too slow abd uncoordinated
Should never have been picked. It's fine playing him during the Asian qualifiers, but he should have no business playing in important tournaments like the world cup and Olympics.

If Australia makes the Olympics, I do think a fit Simmons would nominate.

If all healthy, do we go:

C Landale/Reath
F Simmons/Cooks
F Green/Thybulle/Ingles
G Mills/
G Giddey/Exum/Daniels

And then choose between the three point shooter in Goulding or White?

We lost to Germany without Franz Wagner.
Weren't we a team going for a medal? Do we have an excuse?

Forde is a new gen coach, speed, athleticism, positionless etc

How do we get top of the pool again? We beat Japan, Slovenia, Georgia and hope Slovenia beat Germany. Then do we go by point differential?

We are toast if we play Canada in quarters which I assume we do if we come second in pools?

"Weren't we a team going for a medal? Do we have an excuse?"

France lost to Australia in pool play at the 2019 WC.

Should we have put Goulding on near the end when we needed a basket?

No overreaction needed. Germany played really well, hustled hard, and made some big shots. We were not our best, but a more imaginative set on the last inbounds (or even maybe just a non-fumble from Patty) and we probably get the W. It happens.

On the positive side Cooks was great. Kay didn't have his best game - he's probably better suited against smaller frontcourts. I'd like to see us mix it up and put Cooks in the starting 5 to see if it helps us start games stronger. Thybulle just not having the impact we've come to expect from him either - feels like Mills-Giddey-Green-Cooks-Reath is the crew we should be rolling with from the opening tip, with Exum first off the bench.

This isn't about blaming Nick Kay, it's about the choices that were made. How many points were scored on Nick Kay when they isolated at top of the key?There must have been eight in a row. At some point you have to see a clear problem like it and address it. Sure,. maybe he was out there filling another function but when someone gets burned like that you have to do something.

Also the starting 5 is off. Is the problem starting Giddey and are we putting too much pressure on him? Is there not enough bounce in the team? I really think Kay needs to fall back to 8-9th place in rotation.

Right now we've got a few scenarios -

Somehow Finland beats Germany, we end up in a 3 way tie, if points differential allow, we 'can' finish the group in top spot.

Or the more likely scenario, Germany beats Finland. We finish second.

We take those results on to the second round ad we basically need to beat both Slovenia and the other crossover to make the quarters. For us to avoid Canada, we need other results to go our way. Most likely scenario? We're on a first class train to Canada, unless they somehow drop a game moving forward to Spain or someone else coming through.

That loss may well have cost us the tournament and I can see a few stupid things that caused it.

If all teams had their best players USA would win in a canter, Serbia would be a serious threat, plus others, to many excuses, take it on chin and move on. The loss to Spain in 2019 was far worse and should have got us the silver behind the USA.

On the Schroder pronunciation: https://youtu.be/3AAli4hndR8

Hahaha ah yes, Chris Goulding, the shooter we absolutely need. Still cant find a minute for him. Sorry.... I could see a role for Delly on this team from what I've seen.


These are my takeaways -

We need:

- More Exum
- Less Giddey
- Kay needs to move to 9th place on rotation
- One of Cooks or White should be on the court at all times
- Starting 5 CLEARLY needs to change and Goorjian needs to stop being stubborn about it

How would I pick he team now -

- Firstly, what are we doing with Goulding? Why is he there? This hypothetical shooter has not once been used.
- If you cant find minutes for Dyson Daniels why wasn't there someone picked who could impact the team today?


- Delly should have made the team over Goulding. At least there are times when a feasible need for a stable head is evident.
- Pinder over Kay. Sorry but this whole campaign Kay has looked outmatched. I'll pay him his dues for everything he's done and for some of the brilliance he brought but he just isn't there.

"How many points were scored on Nick Kay when they isolated at top of the key?There must have been eight in a row. At some point you have to see a clear problem like it and address it."


It was two step-back 3s and a driving 2 at the start of 4th. It was two passive switches, White on the first screen and Kay on the second with no disruption.

Goorjian had Cooks ready to check in but there was no stoppage in play. Possibly should have got a time-out a play earlier but easy to say from behind a screen.

The real issue was the passive execution at that point though (same with the start of the game), there were plenty of good defensive sets with similar line-ups out there.

Great game but some really poor coaching by the Boomers staff.

Offensively it's been either Giddey or Mills dribbling the air out of it and not much else.

Defensively, far too many lapses especially on the perimeter. What is with this constant switching? Schroeder feasted all game on that.

Poor minutes distribution, neither Reath, Exum nor White played enough and Kay far too much. This game really didn’t suit him due to his lack of quickness. White should have been getting those minutes.

Found it strange how Caporn coached the last play with Goorjian watching from the rear...

"Yep, so it's Schröder. That's not what Gleeson and Casey were saying at all."

My god you're the worst.

^^ I meant the last timeout

Found it strange how Caporn coached the last play with Goorjian watching from the rear...

We looked great with josh green and exum as the two guards. I would love to see more of that with thybulle as well to really lock down and then push the ball. We play too slow with giddey running point at times. Suits NBA but not so much FIBA.

It might be...
Goorj just doesn't seem as sharp as he used to be.
Can’t blame him though… he’s 70.
Age catches up with you

To be fair to Kay, he is far more useful when there is an actual offensive system in place.

Goorj has never been a sharp in-game coach. Master of preparation.

"Yep, so it's Schröder. That's not what Gleeson and Casey were saying at all."

My god you're the worst.

Exactly rjd, which further emphasises the absence of any consistent offensive structure.

Bullets, agree with your analysis.

Regarding Caporn, I believe he's been assigned with drawing up offensive sets.
He did it in the practice games and in both WC games so far

To be honest we didn't deserve to win that. I thought the final scoreline flattered us a bit they were about 7-8 points better. Better offensive and defensive execution. We had to work so hard to score they didn't.

In saying that I think Goorjian deserves a bit of criticism Kay was getting killed defensively yet he keeps persisting with him due to the lack of legit bigs which was of Goorjian's making. A good mobile big in Reath should've been on there at the end.

Patty was very good in the first half but ran out of puff in the second half. Cooks was impressive his defence and all the disruptions really plugged a number of holes out there. I liked Green's defence too but Giddey was average and we got nothing out of Ingles.

Anyway this game against Germany was likely going to be a 50-50 game, we lost by 3 perhaps fortunate to only lose by that much and now need to beat Japan hopefully a big win.

I'm not too fussed with this game, Germany cannot play any better at all. Australia has a lot left. If we're lining up Canada due to the loss, I'd be a frightened Canada.

"We looked great with josh green and exum as the two guards. "

I think this is a lot closer to reality, but it will involve eating Poe, thus the boomers won't do it, and likely cost them going deeper than they should.

As has been witnessed, Giddey and Mills is struggling to work.

The Finland gamer showed the real clue. The game didn't work for the boo.ets until Mills went off. The first real action started when Giddey went off, Exumc came in and started driving to the hoop incessantly.

Finland's defence collapsed, and when Giddey came back on, he was copying Exum, using his body and scored big in the 2nd quarter.

It was only at this point was the team freed up and slot more space, including Mills who went and padded his stats.

Saw much of the again today. When Mills is off, the team looks better. Giddy carried it in the 4th, and the blood rule harmed us

Patty as the number 1 option has the ball in his hand too much, and the sets become iso based.

I'd let Giddey and Green grind away, and once the space is created, let Mills come off a million pin downs and score like he is wanting... but only after the momentum has been created first.

Patty is the best player, but he is 35 years old. In the 4th quarter, physical problems can arise. His turnovers were three today, two of which came with a minute left in the fourth quarter.
Were all we able to do was ISO? Was there a catch-and-shoot strategy that could use him? When Germany was caught on a team foul in the 4th quarter, was there any strategy to use it?

Defensively, Giddey needs to review this game. Even after Goorj berated him in a time-out, Giddey looked apathetic on D again and again. Bad defense is one thing, but bad effort is intolerable.

I am kind of not sure how to feel after the loss. A loss like this used to be routine for the Boomers and you'd still have some sort of hope moving forward. Buit we've gone two tournaments in a row undefeated in our group stage. It's a reall strange place to be, to be looking at, likely, second in your group. It's an ego hit. It's like, we're too good for this, surely?

But that's what has happened and we have a legitimate medal challenger in our pool. I think i remember Spain dropping a game during pools at different times and still going far in tournaments. France is now up against the same prospect as we are, although they got levelled by 30 points. This loss almost definitely changes our pathway to any kind of medal.

And then that brings to question, are we a medal team this year? We look it for stretches but our starts are abysmal. The alarm bells have to be ringing now about that starting 5. They said they'd start Josh Green - maybe it's time to do that. Maybe it's time to get Giddey a bit of help with cretion and maybe even slot Ingles in at the three? Or maybe it's time to start Exum alongside Giddey and Patty? Either way, something is wrong in the recipe. The fact we gave away those kind of runs and still remained heavy in the game is frankly astonishing.

The upsides? we won the boards. We weren't dominated inside. That's encouraging. We can play with bigger teams. That's a plus. That's cool.

Another upside? We do have room to grow.

Looking frward to Canada here are the ways we can avoid them:

If Finland beats Germany - unlikely
If we beat Slovenia in a crossover and Slovenia beats Germany
If Spain beats Germany and relegates them to second place


Now to play devil's advocate on Canada:

Have they already peaked?
Do they have another level to get to?
Some teams do peak too early in tournaments. We've seen it from the Lithuanians especially in past tournaments.

We are now squarely in the France situation where we have given ourselves a hard road.

We were never a serious medal chance once Landale went down. Personally I thought our ceiling was probably 4th or 5th before he went down. Olympics are one thing but WC's are tougher.

All this talk on Slovenia in the next round here and on the commentary...
Pretty disgraceful to overlook japan. Should be 1 game at a time.

It's moments like these I start believing Bogut's conspiracies

Why was Giddey sent off the court? He was our best chance to score! Patty had been quiet since Q1. Ingles was cold and they had to sub him on. Was there blood? Then why was Giddey allowed back later? If blood then why couldn't Aussies sort it out during time out?

And why no review of Giddey's attempt at the buzzer?

Surprised not more comments on those things here

On the game, how good was Cooks. Super impressed by him. I didn't fully believe even after his MVP but he's winning me

Offense looks disjointed. Patty brilliant Q1, Giddey made some plays throughout. Hustle plays and fast breaks. But fluidity missing in half court. Thought it was really the opening of 4th that killed us. Switched and Kay gave too much space instead of forcing left

They banked the late 3 too.

Two very good teams, could've gone either way

"All this talk on Slovenia in the next round here and on the commentary...
Pretty disgraceful to overlook japan. Should be 1 game at a time."

That may be part of the issue with this Boomers team. They're walking around saying "gold vibes only"... well... you just lost to Germany.

I think it pays to look at the trajectory of the tournament. In the end, "if" we make the second round, then are matchups are Slovenia and most like Georgia. And "if" we advance, our match up is most likely Canada.

That's just the nature of the situation.

While part of me thinks you can tick of Japan as a win, who knows. As much as the Boomers have had their moments of brilliance they've been the shakiest I've ever seen them since after the 2014 world cup. I want to be optimistic, but I don't think the 2019, 2016 or the 2021 Boomers lose to Germany tonight.

"We were never a serious medal chance once Landale went down. Personally I thought our ceiling was probably 4th or 5th before he went down. Olympics are one thing but WC's are tougher."

See... I just don't know. I don't even know if that's right. I think it's a fair statement but I think we can look at the following things:

Germany IS legit.
We probably would have beaten them comfortably if not for lacksaidaisical starts and strange Kay rotations.

So are we there if we clean that up?

I think this team has the potential to have another gear. But can that gear go where we need to?

I don't think the problem is the horses we have, the problem is they haven't figured out how to use them and the clock is ticking.

The no-call on the Giddey shot at the end was not challenged because there was no call.
You can only challenge a call, but you cant challenge a no-call.

From one angle it appeared he was fouled, from another angle it seemed he wasnt, then theres6 the question of whether he got it off in time.
In some way, I feel that if Spain took that shot there'd be a foul called.

In any case, I actually thought the reffing was very good overall.

The problem wasn't the refereeing, we actually shot ourselves in the foot numerous times. This loss is all on us. I just pray its a wake up call.

Does anyone know the ranking criteria in the 2nd round? Based on the tables on the FIBA World Cup site, it appears that it comes down to W-L then +/-. The question is whether all results from the 1st round are included. If it is, the big win over Finland will help a lot. It would make the Japan game margin important too.

We probably would have beaten them comfortably if not for lacksaidaisical starts and strange Kay rotations.

Germany looked strong in the warm-up games. There is a question about their consistency and big tournament experience, but it's not so outrageous to have them as medal favourites.

Well I mean I see 18 points spurts that we were useless in and mostly all came from navel gazing behaviour.

This begs the question for me, could this team have done with retaining a bit more of the older core, your Baynes, Dellys, etc. Could we not have taken Delly for Goulding and Baynes for Daniels? I probably like the idea of a brick shit house sitting on the end of your bench more than a guy who you've got 4 carbon copies of already. And I think Delly's leadership and steadying hand would be more likely to be of use at some point than the mythical Goulding shooting.

The no-call on the Giddey shot at the end was not challenged because there was no call.
You can only challenge a call, but you cant challenge a no-call.

Schroder was outrageous to night but as Gleeson said in commentary he can be very streaky, his defence on Mills was also very good which the German coach mentioned in his after game interview.
I'm a little surprised that we weren’t good enough, we are better than we showed. Sometimes to many cooks spoil the broth, I’m not certain why the assistant coach is calling offensive plays.

Incorrect. Under FIBA's system no-calls can be challenged.
______
If that's the case, then its another bad decision by the coaching staff.

I'm not certain why the assistant coach is calling offensive plays.

I dont think we were fortunate to get within a possession of them at all. I think we have all the horses but they've not figured out how to use them. I mean its no secret now that our second unit is far superior to our starters. As soon as Exum comes on the game turns on its head. Why in the world is he getting 16 minutes a game? And then I see an article of Goorj saying (yet again) we should play him more. Well... yeah bro.... that's your job.

We needed more than a few 50-50 calls to get within 3 points of that German team that just lost one of their few NBA players the game before. Talk about adjustments on the fly, they were impressive.

Neither do we have the horses, we're missing our best centre in Landale who to be fair is limited anyway and we decide to take a guy like Daniels who isn't needed rather than the centre we should've taken after Landale's injury like a Baynes or Thon. Goorj wanted to play small ball and then Kay gets taken to the cleaners, that's om him and the coaching staff.

Hurting without Landale

I forgot this is my username here lol

The hysteria seems to ratchet up here whenever Boomers lose

3 Point game. That's one shot, one call. One banked 3. Etc.

Bottom line- Schroeder was absolutely awesome. Aussies lost a high quality nail biter.

We can and should get better in some areas, but even playing like that we'll likely beat Japan, Slovenia and Georgia. And get a shot at Canada, France, Spain or Latvia in a quarter final.

This loss hasn't changed our odds unsurprisingly.

We're still on that equal third line below US and Canada.

Japan have pulled a rabbit out of the hat to setup an epic next game against us.

And now we face a completely jacked Japan side at home after they beat Finland....

I still think we should beat Japan but to not get out of the group stage would be poor.

Despite his in-game weaknesses, which seem to have distracted some away from the initial point being made, Goorjian has never deferred to assistants in timeout huddles like he has in this tournament.

We should be fine as the only time we've lost to Japan was with a B/C grade team when Kay disgustingly went 0/48473363 from the field.

Horvasse is a great coach and even after losing hachimura, the team is much better than any other Japanese team we have faced previously.

Genuinely would like to see the section of the FIBA rules that says coaches can challenge non calls.

Could we see latvia knockout France...

FIBA Asia is sad with perennial time waster try-hard teams with no heart like China and Philippines representing it but damn Japan make up for all of that.

The rules are published on the FIBA website, anyone can read them.

Having gone back over them just now, while you can challenge non-calls, fouls are not challengeable.

Is Goorj going a bit Joe Biden on us? I think there have always been questions on him - having Barlow drive the ball up on the last play against Greece in 2006, no time out against Team USA when they broke our lead down in 2021, allowing Kay to get absolutely mutilated at the top of the key. A few kind calls have nothing to do with anything. You could sum that whole game up with their guards exposing Nick Kay.

"

We can and should get better in some areas, but even playing like that we'll likely beat Japan, Slovenia and Georgia. And get a shot at Canada, France, Spain or Latvia in a quarter final."

We'll get a shot at a situation that is needlessly harder than it should be. Germany were very beatable. We slept for half of entire quarters and almost did it. This team needs to improve. They were talking gold medals before turning up... it's time to put up or shut up. Tonight didn't cut it. Yes it was a tough game. But we let the game slip.

I want to take a minute to talk about Japans win to Finland. People were in the stands crying. Players were crying. Japan finally beat their first European team. They came from 16 down and won by 10. There's something humble about that.

My question is have the Boomers become too arrogant, does te big dog status not suit them? Certainly there appears to be a lack of 'get up and go' to start quarters and games which just was never habit before this team. Have they got too big for their boots? Was this loss necessary to sort out some egos?

And beyond that, is GIDDEY potentially an ego problem on this team? hear me out - Giddey is getting his numbers. No question. But I don't think any reasonable person can say that Exum has not made a bigger difference to the team in the minutes he plays, and yet Exum cannot get much past 15 minutes. Are the Boomers coaches too concerned with massaging Giddey that they're being myopic about his actual effect on the game?

Im just spitballing here. I love Giddey. But line ups with Giddey in them are having some issues.

At this point, I will ask again.
Is our lineup something that should remain unchanged?
I've been saying that since the warm-up game. That the synergy is not good.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with those players.

Giddey has a better lineup.
Mills has a better lineup.
All of these are true.

I used soccer as an example, and it's my fault.

Yeah.. its quite blatantly obvious that our bench is more effective than our starting 5. Still waiting on Josh Green to make his starting 5 appearance that Goorjian has been carolling on about. Still waiting for Goulding to be that much needed "shooter on the wing" that we couldn't live without.

Giddey - Mills - Thybulle - Kay - Reath
Just my opinion, this lineup is a failure. I'll admit it's a small sample size, but it's not a good offense, and it's not a good defense.
There is no team synergy, just individual skill.
I think Giddey and Mills should be played separately, but if that's not possible, replace Thybulle and Kay with other players. The current lineup has made their strengths disappear.

My question is are they brave enough to try a new line up? Something needs to give. You cant start games like that.

Doesn't that mean the coaching staff is incompetent?
They don't have the courage to change the lineup when even a layman like us can see that something is wrong with it?
It would be risky to change the lineup if it had a history of success, but it's a lineup with no history of success. It seems like you can't do any worse than that by changing the lineup.

Could we see latvia knockout France...

Latvia leading.

No way... this isn't it...?

France lose!

Huge for the crossover.

This is why the World Cup needs more European teams in it. I'm sick of boring group stage games due to weak continents receiving more allocations than they are worthy of.

In his press conference, Goorj said something about how he'd had to use his challenge on a baseline out of bounds play I think? It wasn’t mentioned on TV coverage that he’d used it.

That would explain why no challenge on the last play.

There was no whistle on the last play, you can't challenge no-calls.

The ball pressure from Japan is going to be immense. Expect alot of 3s put up.

With Latvia managing to beat France do we drop the stock a bit to what the Canadian 30 point win means or not so much? Clearly France weren't France this time around. Clearlu a touch too old maybe?

It's clear the Boomers need to improve and after the way Japan played last night we need to treat that game as serious as any.

My tiers for 2023 selection

Giddey
Mills
Exum
Green
Thybulle
Landale

Cooks
White
Daniels
Reath

Simmons

Ingles
Kay
Humphries
McDowell-White
Vasiljevic
Maker
Proctor
Pinder
Dellavedova
Sikarsky

If we make it to quarters v Canada and lose I'd be sufficiently happy with that effort.

Even though Aussies shot the three ball well lastnight, it was clear that Mills is our only real scorer, particularly for those 3minute scoreless periods.

If they’re not going to use Goulding in those points in time, then they should have gone the extra big tbh.

As an amateur coach, it strikes me that Giddey's strengths are his passing and his finishing, but not his dribbling - too slow and too easily pressured or stolen.

I he can’t pass long to start a fast-break then he should hand off to someone else to bring the ball up, and run hard to be in a position to finish the break with a dunk.

He’s not suitable to be a pg in this WC.

Boomers chose Giddey as their main ball-handler, but he's not a perfect player - as many people have said, his shortcomings are clear.
Delly was also a player with clear weaknesses, but he had teammates with whom he had good synergy, and we were able to capitalize on his strengths.
So, isn't it simple for Giddey as well? If you can't mask his shortcomings, you have to change the lineup to one that can make the most of his strengths.
Isn't that the most realistic way to do it now?

Are our next biggest matches these?

Spain vs Canada. Spain win and we would be better off with the loss in the pool if we finish second.

Slovenia vs Germany. This could go a number of ways and decide whether we finish 1-3 in the pools.

Any others?

As for the game, I've thought about it more. This call could’ve gone this way that call could’ve gone that way. Great teams don’t put themselves in the position to be beat on poor calls. They should’ve beat them fair and square, they didn’t. Who cares about the challenge- Giddey would’ve probably missed one anyway. If you are letting teams hang around in the 4th with a player like shroder then be prepared to lose.

Japan shouldn’t be an issue and if they are we don’t deserve to get out of the pools.

It's worth mentioning Schroeder's record

Eurobasket 2015- 21.0ppg, 2nd leading scorer

Eurobasket 2017- 23.7ppg, 2nd leading scorer where Germany made quarter finals

World Cup 2019 - 19.6ppg, 8th leading scorer

Eurobasket 2022- 22.1ppg, 5th leading scorer and made All Tourny team where Germany finished 3rd

His body of work is superb. Undoubtedly one of the absolute top-tier FIBA players

Doncic, Markannen, Schroeder- Aussies are playing some of the best individuals - 3 of the top 5 scorers from Eurobasket 2022

The clear learning point for Cooks is you are terrible at free throws. We would comment how bad, however then everyone will bring up Simmons.

If you're fouled and the chance of you hitting your free throws is similar to Cooks, stay down. Get subbed off, put some ice on your head, let someone who trains hard who can hit free throws get the points. Once the free throws are done, quietly recover and sub back in next opportunity.

Either one should be possible.
You have to perfect your defense against Schroeder or perfect your defense against the rest of the opposing team.
However, in the end, none of them were successful. Are we the attacking team? no. We are more of a defensive team. Even if Schroeder scores 30-40 points, he can win if he perfectly defends the rest of the players.

The mass hysteria on these forums are crazy lol.

As soon as anyone makes a mistake most of you guys flip on the player e.g. Giddey and Kay were all being praised when they play well but as soon as they make any sort of mistake most of you come down on them like a tonne of bricks and say they shouldn't have made the team. And when Patty wasn't playing well you were calling for his head but when he plays well everyone loves him.

We have to trust in our players and coaches - everyone has off games.

STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE!

Don't count us out until the final buzzer!

GO BOOMERS!

This competition is held once every 4 years.
It is not a once-a-year or once-every two-year competition. How many players on the current roster do you think will be in the next World Cup?
I don't think profanity and strong criticism of the players and coaching staff should be allowed. But can't we talk about the shortcomings and regrets?

I think we would prefer Slovenia beating Germany for a 3 way tie. Let the point differential decide.

Finishing second would likely lead to Canada Qtr and USA semi from memory. Even if Spain beat Canada in pools we would have USA after. I think..

The criticism at Giddey in this game is mainly for his poor defense which was entirely due to lack of effort on his part.

Kay played as well as he could with honorable effort, but was clearly being outplayed on the defensive end, and over-all Reath had a better game with far fewer minutes.
In that regard, the criticism lies entirely on the coach.

Mills kept us in the game, yet relying on him to win us games by playing predominately iso ball is not a formula for success.
His two late turn overs while seemingly a fault of his, to me actually say more about our overall lack of offensive team structure which again is more a reflection on the system which has diminished as a whole since Lemanis was replaced.

Exactly knockdown 3.

I don't think it's hysteria when we are talking about a costly loss that I'd an entirely winnable game that we made multiple obvious blunders in. I also don't think it's hysteria when those blunders have become a trend and are now entirely predictable with this team. There was no room for error in this tournament and we seem to be making plenty. When I see this team I see a lot of potential to get something done but they're really hanging on by the skin of their teeth, often owing to lazy starts to games and an uncharacteristic lack in intensity. This is a team that wants to medal. They need to get it together or they could well go the way of France tomorrow.

I'm glad someone mentioned Lemanis in this thread. There are definitely things about this team that were better under him

The main thing is we are still alive. And we will only medal now if we deserve one

An interesting read on Giddey. May be a similar impact on dynamic.

He's a special talent and still very young. Could be some learnings from this campaign.

We have to be perfect for the rest of the tournament now. Its going to be tough as we're definitely not 100% together like we were in Tokyo etc. Will have to take care of Japan and then win BOTH of the crossover games before we can even look at quarter finals.

At this stage a QF loss to Canada would be a decent result.

Based on Australia's play over the first 2 games, we should comfortably beat Japan. And should win over Georgia and Slovenia.

Slovenia is missing Cancar and Goran Dragic who were amongst their best players in previous tournaments, and they struggled to beat Venezuela in their first game (won by 15 after being close throughout).

It's hard to know how concerned to be. At the moment i am very but there were some positive indicators.

We won the boards
We weren't out muscled inside
Managed to compete in a game when we gave away crazy leads

So there's some scope for improvement. We are certainly not maxing out our potential yet. Not close I don't think.

We should beat Japan, Georgia, and Slovenia.

Another consideration is you could call Getmany the first "good" team we've faced in this campaign, warm up or otherwise. What do we change, what do we learn, could this be the best thing for us?

As the commentators noted, that looked like a quarter final

You may find both Australia and Germany do make the quarters.

Both could end being better than the top teams in some other pools like Slovenia/Georgia (who we'll face in Round 2 assuming we beat Japan),

plus Lithuania, Dominican Republic, teams like that will top other pools and I think Aus/Ger better than those teams.

"The criticism at Giddey in this game is mainly for his poor defense which was entirely due to lack of effort on his part."

That's my concern with Giddey. He seems to still be in NBA regular season mode. Barely at 70% on D. As Goorj screamed, "you're playing for your lives!". Yet he came back after that berating with non-urgent D, hands down on shooters, etc. That's poor effort. This is the World Cup. Play at 100% or get subbed out. We have the depth.

I think Germany and Australia better than 27 of the 32 teams thebproblem is the 3 or 4 that are better are all on collision course with us

I think we should reasonably expect to make the quarters but this is a team that expects to medal. My question is how do we beat Canada? I'm sure it's possible. I'd rather think from that angle than assume it's not.

As for Kay, you could see he was legitimately putting in a lot of effort. Kay plays at 100%. He's a warrior. You could argue strategically, as Gaze said, there were times he would've been better off leaving less space, don't let Schroder get a head full of steam. You could also argue that Germany was clearly aiming to iso Kay so the Boomers coaching staff should've taken Kay out. If Schroder and Lo clanged a couple of those tough step-backs, nobody would be talking about this at all.

"Doncic, Markannen, Schroeder- Aussies are playing some of the best individuals - 3 of the top 5 scorers from Eurobasket 2022"

Does anyone else see a major issue with this statement for the Boomers?

I'm looking only at these big name players listed, playing on strong teams, playing in a tough competition... in 2022!

The Boomers had 3 weeks of prep, playing mostly substandard competition. This follows little preparation in 2021. Green, Reath hardly played in 2021. We now have international newbies Cooks, White, Giddey getting rotation minutes. Add in Green and Reath, and that's 5 players with little experience playing together. How many of these guys played in qualification tournaments or the Asia Cup? None.

The Boomers are way underdone compared with the Euros.

Meanwhile, as Euro teams come back battle hardened from Eurobasket 2022, the only players the current coaching staff remember from the Asia Cup 2022 is McDowell-White, Maker and Pinder, the 3 players cut.

Is the problem with the coaching staff, the lack of a system, or the lack of preparation time and experience playing together?

The problem is though RJD, they did hit those step backs, and the coaching staff didn't do anything to rectify the glaring issue of Kay being on the court.

Agreed. A lesson for the Slovenia game if we get through. Although Doncic will do that on everyone.

Rjd "is the problem ...?" I would say all 3.

Yes, we beat a highly-rated France in a warmup, but it turns out they weren't such high quality after all.

There's nothing Kay can do for the Boomers right now.
To be more precise, it's hard to bring out his strengths in the current lineup.

You may get tired of talking about the lineup from the warm-up game, but I hope you will think about it seriously.
We have a lot of really talented players.

Machines also work only when the parts match exactly. The same goes for basketball. Superstars are important, but without synergy with role players, the team cannot win.

There was no whistle on the last play, you can't challenge no-calls.

I think two things get majorly overlooked at times like this.

1 - Every team out there is playing with the passion and pride as much as our guys. We are not the only ones that do this and as in life, sometimes your opponents are just better than you or make better plays.

2 - Giddey. He is 20 FFS. Twenty! Still a kid. He has plenty to learn and *should* do so at a rapid rate.

We are one of many countries in the world that are bloody good at hoops and with any elite sport, any top 10 team can get another on any given night.

Oh and an extra point. Anyone that thinks Thon Maker is a better baller than Nick Kay has rocks in their head. We could not sing the praises of Kay any louder when we finally medaled and now people want him out? Spare me.

I'm worried that Goorjian is yielding to Giddey, despite the lack of effort, due to his status as an NBA player. The problem is he may be one but has zero FIBA tournament experience since we can trot out B teams for the Asia Cup.

We looked much better with Exum on yet Giddey closed out the game.

Of course, Kay is a better player than Maker. Who doesn't know that?
Is there anyone who criticizes his achievements and his skills?
Is there anyone who says to cut Kay and add Maker???

What's with the comments about there being lots of good countries and they’re all playing for pride as well etc etc?

It’s professional sport, people are going observe and analyse and critique. There doesn’t have to be kind words and a "isn’t it great everyone is out there participating and doing their best" mentality.

There are some pretty glaring holes and when they’re pointed out people started with “it’s just warm up games no worries” and when it was established in the game everyone said it’d be problematic, its “hysteria”.

Nah it’s just people observing and critiquing accurately.

“Germany are good too” - so what? We can still expect to have performed better. It’s not the US where if we won we couldn’t care less how we did it.

The first time Giannis played a major tournament for Greece, he was just another player. It was the 2nd (or 3rd?) major tourny where he worked it out and starred

Yeah Giddey has played NBL so a little different, but I wouldn't necessarily anticipate dominance despite his NBA wares

NBA regular season defense is 70% intensity, FIBA world Cup is 80-90% in round 1 and scales up. Giddey's made some stellar passes but he's also looked cramped at times.

Yes, the Boomers are a little under prepared compared to some teams. We only played 5 warm up games (6 if you count the University one in Cairns). Many teams played 10+, some as many as 13. Plus EuroBasket was last year.

We're doing OK though. We lost a nail biter. It happens. There are literally thousands of split-second decisions in a game made by pros

"Do I switch or stay with my man"

"Shoot or pass"

"Box out or go for the rebound"

"Extra dribble or pass"

etc etc etc

A 3 point game can be decided by a single decision. Out of thousands.

Interesting perspective when you consider it in that context.

That banked 3 misses, and Cooks hits one more free throw, and Aussies win by 1 and much of the talk in this thread takes on a different tone.

I think we saw first hand evidence that Goorj is not giving Giddey an easy ride at all, if that is what was being suggested.

Next game...
Japan going with

5'6 Togashi - 5’6 Kawamura
6’2 Hara - 6’2 Tominaga - 6’3 Nishida
6’5 Baba - 6’5 Yoshii - 6’3 Hiejima
6’9 Watanabe - 6’7 Inoue
6’10 Hawkinson - 6’8 Kawamata



Slowing the pgs, not letting Tominaga shoot and keeping Hawkinson and Watanabe off the glass is key.

White led the team in turnovers with 4 in only 9 minutes. not good at all.

V japan, would like to see


Exum - Giddey
Mills - Daniels - Goulding
Green - Ingles
Thybulle - White
Reath - Cooks - Kay

Goorj and Joe both straight out blamed ref for losing. I think coaches need to take a fair amount of responsibility for rotations.

I called out in other thread that offensive plays were being hidden in warm up games, but now I hope they do actually have some up their sleeve, otherwise I was wrong. Hopefully our offence is more than fast breaks after a stop or Giddey drive and pass with limited structure. I'm hopeful they are keeping lots up their sleeve for later games.

The bronze medal may have been a perfect storm coaching wise as the team still used a lot of Lemanis' offence paired with Goorj defence.

Regarding the coach challenges, I'm confused and some comments above can't be right. Goorj did use a challenge for a ball that come off a German foot but got called as their ball. The challenge was successful so why wouldn't we keep the challenge? Goorj and Joe both suggested in post match interview that he had to use (or burn) our challenge to correct that "obvious " wrong call, so maybe you only get 1 challenge whether successful or not which doesn't seem reasonable. I don't remember the ref saying we lost our challenge when he said he got call wrong, but Goorj was fuming at the time.

Germany challenged a foul call and got it wrong, on the audio the ref said challenge was unsuccessful so they lost their challenge.

My understanding is you should keep challenge if successful, therefore we should still have had a challenge at the end. FIBA rules as stated by someone above said you can challenge a non call but not a foul call can't be right as Germany (unsuccessfully) challenged a foul call.

All TV commentators stated the reason Goorj didn't challenge Giddeys last shot was because you can't challenge a no call. They restated this several times including after they checked rules, so I expect you can't challenge a non call.

Goorj at the end was verbally having a crack at ref, who would have told him to challenge if he was able. The same ref talked Germany through their challenge by saying they need to formally ask, so they would have said something if Goorj was able to given what was being said.

If all the coach and captain can focus on after a game is a possible foul on an improbable shot as the reason they lost the game, then they've got a real problem. (I didn’t see the presser so I’m going by what I read here.)

Players make hundreds of decisions during the game, not all correct. We were burnt on a lot of them. Our offense looked unco a lot of the time. But missing foul shots?! To me, that’s ridiculous at this level, no matter how much mental pressure there is.

Coach and captain would do better to concentrate on the things within their control rather than things outside their control.

Having said that, if we know we could have taken the (3rd ranked?) team even while playing poorly, then we can feel a lot more confident about being able to compete with the likes of Canada and Serbia and Spain. We just need to get there.

GO BOOMERS!!

If all the coach and captain can focus on after a game is a possible foul on an improbable shot as the reason they lost the game, then they've got a real problem.

Here is link to presser

https://www.youtube.com/live/d2DAto7aRZ8?si=xAcQwIIPF202OkSU

You cant challenge a no call, effectively there is decision to challenge. You get 1 challenge per game. Ridiculous that you don't retain it if you are correct.

F.3 contains the rules and situations that can be challenged in the FIBA rule book. https://www.fiba.basketball/documents

If Giddey made that shot and was fouled the refs would only be able to self review if he got the shot off in time , regardless if he was fouled or not.

Goorj did use a challenge for a ball that come off a German foot but got called as their ball. The challenge was successful so why wouldn't we keep the challenge?

as stated by someone above said you can challenge a non call but not a foul call can't be right as Germany (unsuccessfully) challenged a foul call.

Sorry , I should expand that last paragraph

If Giddey made the shot and there was no foul called the refs can only review the clock. They cant review if they should have called a foul or not.

Make the free throws and none of this is an issue though.

You cant challenge a no call,

Where does it say you can challenge a no call?

F.3 looks pretty clear on that

Ridiculous.

Absolutely Ridiculous that there could be a complete howler overturned yet the coach loses the ability to challenge again.

Where does it say you can challenge a no call?

For those playing at home - here is rule F.3 which are the only situations a coach can review

F.3 Rule
The following game situations may be reviewed:
F.3.1 At the end of the quarter or overtime,
• whether a shot for a successful field goal was released before the game clock
signal sounded for the end of the quarter or overtime.
• whether and how much time shall be displayed on the game clock, if:
▬ An out-of-bounds violation of the shooter occurred.
▬ A shot clock violation occurred.
▬ An 8-second violation occurred.
▬ A foul was committed before the end of the quarter or overtime.

F.3.2 When the game clock shows 2:00 minutes or less in the fourth quarter and in each
overtime,
• whether a shot for a successful field goal was released before the shot clock
signal sounded.
• whether a foul away from a shooting situation was committed. In this case
▬ whether the game or shot clock has expired,
▬ whether the act of shooting has started,
▬ whether the ball was still in the hand(s) of the shooter.
• whether a goaltending or basket interference violation was called correctly.
• to identify the player who has caused the ball to go out-of-bounds.
F.3.3 During any time of the game,
• whether the successful field goal shall count for 2 or 3 points.
• whether 2 or 3 free throws shall be awarded, after a foul was called on a shooter
for an unsuccessful field goal.
• whether a personal, unsportsmanlike or disqualifying foul met the criteria for
such a foul or shall be upgraded or downgraded or shall be considered as a
technical foul.
• after a malfunction of the game clock or the shot clock occurs, on how much time
the clock(s) shall be corrected.
• to identify the correct free-throw shooter.
• to identify the involvement of team members, head coaches, first assistant
coaches and accompanying delegation members during any act of violence.

Is it possible Boomers offence looked so unprepared because they went in planning to build the offence around Giddey/Landale?
I did not get to see much of the prep games but it seemed like they were going to the Reath/Giddey PnR a lot, yes?
Perhaps we all just been sleeping on how important Landale was to the plan and now we have been forced to play small ball and with less of a structured plan default back to Mills iso

Also if we want to get real technical about it, it is really only supposed to be Schröder or Schroeder, not Schroder

I wondered the same thing Kobe, but could they mean something along the lines of out of bounds or goaltending? neither is a foul call but is something that could be challenged?

Your point is mute Koberulz because there is nothing in F.3 that supports your point of view.

Correct, Germany challenged to upgrade standard foul to USF, which was unsuccessful, therefore they lost their challenge. Are you saying Australia couldn't have challenged that same call if they thought it wasn't a foul? (I know it was a standard foul but using as an example).

Sounds like the challenge rules need some work.

Its ridiculous that you lose your challenge if you were correct, although above rules clearly state that is the case. It's also ridiculous you can't challenge a foul call.

Ill make it easier for you Koberulz
F.3 Rule
The following game situations may be reviewed:

F.3.1 At the end of the quarter or overtime,
• whether a shot for a successful field goal was released before the game clock
signal sounded for the end of the quarter or overtime. NOT RELEVANT
• whether and how much time shall be displayed on the game clock, if:
▬ An out-of-bounds violation of the shooter occurred. NOT RELEVANT
▬ A shot clock violation occurred.NOT RELEVANT
▬ An 8-second violation occurred. NOT RELEVANT
▬ A foul was committed before the end of the quarter or overtime. NOT RELEVANT

This one maybe confusing but it is to see if a foul happened before or after the buzzer , not if a foul happened at all.

F.3.2 When the game clock shows 2:00 minutes or less in the fourth quarter and in each
overtime,
• whether a shot for a successful field goal was released before the shot clock
signal sounded. NOT RELEVANT
• whether a foul away from a shooting situation was committed. In this case
▬ whether the game or shot clock has expired,NOT RELEVANT
▬ whether the act of shooting has started,NOT RELEVANT
▬ whether the ball was still in the hand(s) of the shooter.NOT RELEVANT
• whether a goaltending or basket interference violation was called correctly.NOT RELEVANT
• to identify the player who has caused the ball to go out-of-bounds.NOT RELEVANT
F.3.3 During any time of the game,
• whether the successful field goal shall count for 2 or 3 points. NOT RELEVANT
• whether 2 or 3 free throws shall be awarded, after a foul was called on a shooter
for an unsuccessful field goal.NOT RELEVANT
• whether a personal, unsportsmanlike or disqualifying foul met the criteria for
such a foul or shall be upgraded or downgraded or shall be considered as a
technical foul.NOT RELEVANT
• after a malfunction of the game clock or the shot clock occurs, on how much time
the clock(s) shall be corrected.NOT RELEVANT
• to identify the correct free-throw shooter.NOT RELEVANT
• to identify the involvement of team members, head coaches, first assistant NOT RELEVANT
coaches and accompanying delegation members during any act of violence NOT RELEVANT

Thanks Q Anon, very helpful post!

We got beaten by a better side on the night, and probably out coached, it happens in sport. Move on, let's get it right against Japan.

Your point is mute Koberulz because there is nothing in F.3 that supports your point of view.

Are you saying Australia couldn't have challenged that same call if they thought it wasn't a foul?

It's also ridiculous you can't challenge a foul call.

NOT RELEVANT

Ummm what?

You can't challenge a no call

It’s there in the rules what you can challenge. If there isn’t a foul called you can’t challenge it.

You are wrong - accept it

"Is it possible Boomers offence looked so unprepared because they went in planning to build the offence around Giddey/Landale?
I did not get to see much of the prep games but it seemed like they were going to the Reath/Giddey PnR a lot, yes?
Perhaps we all just been sleeping on how important Landale was to the plan and now we have been forced to play small ball and with less of a structured plan default back to Mills iso"

It's possible but it also doesn't really count as an excuse because Landale was injured since early in the camp and they always knew there was a chance it wouldn't quite work. So they've gone in on a tactic that was always in question and then didn't even bring any back up bigs to Melbourne in case he did suffer an injury. It's inexcusable really as far as I can see.

You can't challenge a no call

It's there in the rules what you can challenge. If there isn’t a foul called you can’t challenge it.

I think we saw first hand evidence that Goorj is not giving Giddey an easy ride at all, if that is what was being suggested.

Are you ok Kobe?

You've gone from saying you can challenge no calls to now saying you can’t challenge foul calls

Pick you lane champ

Yes, we all saw what happened during the first timeout, but by default it's almost as if despite his performance (and Exum's) it went back to Giddey as PG due to his status.*

The mass hysteria on these forums are crazy lol.

Are you ok Kobe?

You've gone from saying you can challenge no calls to now saying you can't challenge foul calls

Pick you lane champ

WT actual Fuck is wrong with you

https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/51344-boomers-vs-germany/#p923635

The rules are published on the FIBA website, anyone can read them.

Having gone back over them just now, while you can challenge non-calls, fouls are not challengeable.

At this point I'll just assume you are bing a dickhead for the sake of it

You haven’t been able to show in the rules where you can challenge a no call because you can’t

You keep attesting to something without being able to back it up and in the face of evidence to the contrary of your claim.

Sanic, Reath in the P&R was very effective in the practice games.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall them running a single P&R for Reath in the group matches so far.
To me, it's baffling and a waste of talent and offensive efficiency.

We even ran a bit of shuffle in the France practice game, and again, have not gone to it once since.

At this point I'll just assume you are bing a dickhead for the sake of it

You haven't been able to show in the rules where you can challenge a no call because you can’t

You keep attesting to something without being able to back it up and in the face of evidence to the contrary of your claim.

"If the game continued without a stoppage..."

Games don't continue without a stoppage after a call is made.

koberulz, you know it's OK to misunderstand something, right? Just like, for most reasonable people, it's OK to not point out the odd typo, misused homonym, etc. contained in a perfectly understandable post on an old internet forum.

I think it's quite clear to those not blinded by a gleeful pedanticism that section F.4 refers to the procedure and circumstances for the head coach *requesting* the challenge, while F.3 is what game *situations* can be challenged. So, for instance, if a 3 point shot is counted as a 2 and the game continues without stoppage (which you must concede kinda happens a lot after made baskets),  the head coach can challenge and the refs can stop the game at a time when no disadvantage is given, BUT the coach can only challenge what's in section F.3, they can't claim the shooter was actually fouled, or whatever.

the coach can only challenge what's in section F.3, they can't claim the shooter was actually fouled, or whatever.

and I haven't said that you did, but it's obviously what's being discussed in the Giddey situation, so was used as an example. Try dealing with the relevant parts of the post.

Kobe

The game didn't continue without a stoppage - the game finished

You are trying to hold on to tenuous links to validate your incorrect understanding

You have said multiple times you can challenge no calls. You can’t. That’s the end of it.

There was no call to challenge , there was no made basket to challlenge, there was no out of bounds call to challenge. There was nothing for Goorjian to challenge.

You posted a document that is connected to f.3 which details very clearly what can be challenged

The game didn't continue without a stoppage - the game finished

There was nothing for Goorjian to challenge.

So when I said you can't challenge a no call and you said.

"Incorrect"

What did you mean?

I meant you were not correct.

You are running a Monty Python skit here

You contradict yourself multiple times , change the references when you are shown to be wrong , offer no evidence to back up your claims and wrongful posts.

In short you are a pest that offers no substance or any benefit to discussions.

This forum would be a better place without your nonsense.

It has crossed my mind that you are Isaac simply pissing people off to get more clicks. I hope that isn't the case.

C'mon, you know I could never bring myself to spell "rules" as "rulz". Even for all the forum pennies in the world.

Hey guys, we lost. Missed too many free throws. Had messy offence, particularly down the stretch. Weak on defence at the start of first and fourth. Not enough length. Wasn't refs fault. If you are banking on getting a foul from half court on the buzzer you are really desperate. Move on. Let’s beat Japan!

Watching the game again last night confirmed my lack of faith in thybulle as an on ball defender of elite players. I find him too jumpy and reachy as a defender for guys like Schroder who can absorb and manipulate that overt pressure and much preferred when green was on him. Thybulle still provides value on ball against other ball handlers like Loe and likely against the smaller Japanese guards tonight but in future would much prefer seeing green and exum handed the elite guard matchup. Thybulle is also a better player of the lanes off ball compared to those two. Also seemed ridiculous how much goorjian tried to persist with Kay down the stretch when he was clearly the reason we kept leaking points. Germany also scouted for giddey with multiple guys setting up to draw charges against him and then having weak side defence come in to try and swat his shot, his tendency to regularly go off 1 foot and then try to find a solution mid air when he's already deep in the key gives me mild concerns.

Great observations Eagle.

You contradict yourself multiple times

koberulz has said you can challenge a no call, a no call could be something along the lines of out of bounds or perhaps goaltending.

However a foul that is missed cannot be challenged. Having read the posts he has never said you can challenge them. He has only said you can challenge a no call. The confusion is because the discussion was about a foul not called.

I think I got this right?

no it isn't

oh this is easy - just contradict everything you say with no need to validate it. I feel like a man, thank you for showing me the way .

koberulz has said you can challenge a no call, a no call could be something along the lines of out of bounds or perhaps goaltending.

However a foul that is missed cannot be challenged. Having read the posts he has never said you can challenge them. He has only said you can challenge a no call.

Yeah, confusion I think has happened because this has all come about the "missed foul" call at the end of the game. Simple mistake, lets carry on!

Goaltending can only be challenged when called incorrectly. From a referee point of view they can only review it in the last 2 minutes if they blow their whistle. If they do not blow their whistle the referee's cannot review it.

They can blow the game dead to review it without calling a violation. That can't happen earlier in the game.

Again, the coach's challenge rules explicitly lay out a procedure for challenging something that doesn't stop play. That you can challenge a no-call seems obvious from that.

The only aspect of the Coach's challenge that is different is there are no time constraints. They can challenge at any time but only game situations as in Appendix F.3

F.3.2 bullet 3. "Whether a goal tending or basket interference was called correctly".

When the review determines the GT or BI was NOT called correctly the game shall resume as follows:

Thus, the coach can only review if the call made was correct. Not if a no-call was incorrect.

It's FIBA, their explanations are always horrible. The key part is "was CALLED correctly".

It says "not called correctly", it does not say "called incorrectly".

It has to be called first, then they determine if that call was correct or not.

So once it is called it can be reviewed to determine if that call was correct or incorrect.

You clearly do not have any experience with FIBA english. Hence why the first line is as stated.

I'll continue:

"When the review determines that a GT or BI violation was not correctly called the game shall be resumed as follows, if after the call: then it gives 3 scenario's for restart.

4 key words at the end are "if after the call"

You don't need restart procedures after an incorrect no-call, because the restart procedures are determined by the penalty for the violation.

Incorrect. You cannot challenge a no call on a GT or BI. You can only challenge a call that was made as to whether it was correct or incorrect. Hence in the process for a head coach challenge the referee must first determine if the request is valid.

I know you are usually correct but in this case you are not. If the GT or the BI call is incorrect the restart is now determined by the status of the ball at the time the whistle was blown.

You cannot challenge a no call on a GT or BI.

Correct Sebastian a coach can not challenge something without a whistle or a score.

The challenge part of the rule is challenging what the decision on the floor was.

If there was no decision on the floor there is nothing to challenge

Nonsensical to think a coach can say hey 2 minutes ago I reckon x stepped out of court, do something about it ref

C'mon, you know I could never bring myself to spell "rules" as "rulz". Even for all the forum pennies in the world.

I agree it's nonsensical, but so is losing your challenge if you're correct.

Haha, you nailed it. I think the same thing everytime I see the name - so cringeworthy.

Dude - you can not challenge a no call

I'm sorry you cannot fathom this. I can't lay it out any more clearly.

In the last 2 mins a referee can only review a GT or BI if they blow their whistle. If they do not blow their whistle it is not reviewable.

The parameters for the coach's challenge are the same as those a referee can review in the last 2 mins. (F.3.2) However, the coach has no time restrictions to challenge.

One last time, the game situations outlined in Appendix F.3 can be challenged. The time restrictions for game situations in F.3.2 do not apply and a coach can challenge at any time. However, the IRS protocols still apply. A GT or BI can only be reviewed by the crew chief if a call is made at the time. Hence the wording used in this section that unfortunately for whatever reason you are unable to or do not want comprehend.

The provision to stop the game to conduct a review is around such game situations as F.3.2 bullet 1 Dash 1 and it states it explicitly, the referees are authorised to stop the game immediately to review whether a successful goal was released before the shot clock signal sounded.

The provision to stop the game to conduct a review is around such game situations as F.3.2 bullet 1 Dash 1 and it states it explicitly, the referees are authorised to stop the game immediately to review whether a successful goal was released before the shot clock signal sounded.

Does a referee make a call after every score or miss?

No they don't

You are the only person persisting that you are correct in the face of all the facts and evidence

Does a referee make a call after every score or miss?

No they don't

It explicitly says so in that game situation. The GT/BI situation does not come under that protocol.

Unfortunately for your ego you're wrong with that aspect of the coach's challenge.

So Sebastian, your contention is that you can challenge a no-call on the shot clock, but not on a goaltend?

It's not my contention at all. It's in the document in black and white.

I'm not going through it again. A GT/BI can only be reviewed in the last 2 mins by the crew chief WHEN THE WHISTLE is blown! If none of the referee's blow their whistle it is not a reviewable play. It's not my interpretation, it's the IRS rules.

It's not my contention at all. It's in the document in black and white.

Isaac .... Seriously get rid of this pest

Please go to the FIBA interpretations document page 102. F.3.2.7 Statement. Then please look at all the examples up to and including F.3.2.17 and F.3.2.18 (these 2 examples should shut you up) And the kicker F.4.3 thanks for playing

While you're reading that document, head on over to F-4.17 and F-4.18.

Dude, I have said nothing about end of game or shot clock signal or blanket you cannot challenge a no-call. That is again explicitly spelt out in the rule. I've only gone to war on the GT and BI aspect of coach's challenge because you were/are clearly wrong.

And interpretation F.4.3 clearly in black and white states: The goaltending or interference can be challenged only when the referees have called a goaltending or interference violation. The head coach's request to challenge shall not be granted. (In this example when no whistle was blown)

Hence the reference earlier in the coach's challenge protocol that the referee must decide whether the request to challenge is valid.

Petition to rename this the "people getting into dumb arguments due to miscommunication" thread.

Or KR just didn't want to read and listen and accept in this instance he was wrong smh

lol

It's a miscommunication is it? Your inability to assess your own attitude and inability to back up anything you say with facts is miscommunication , got it

Trump has some jobs going in his PR team you would be suitable for