Your tax dollars at work.

Cotton's negative and defeatist reaction to a citizenship question earlier this year during a post game interview (from memory @ BNE in January) pointed to something being wrong.

Farcical

Someone has posted it here

https://twitter.com/meilingday/status/1642670695586107392?s=46&t=ewSD9gMgp6DyIzZZsjfDsw

Perth Wildcats star Bryce Cotton denied citizenship after Government says he was in Australia illegally

Craig O'Donoghue
The West Australian
Mon, 3 April 2023 2:00AM

The Federal Government has accused Perth Wildcats star Bryce Cotton of living in Australia illegally due to an extraordinary technicality that has made him ineligible to become a citizen.

The 30-year-old has spent almost four years wading through red tape and revealed that an appointment with government officials which led to his permanent residency in 2021 is now being used against him.

As part of the process, Cotton attended a meeting in Melbourne where the government granted him a Distinguished Talent Visa.

Cotton's normal visa had to be cancelled during that meeting and the star shooter was informed he needed to be legally detained for about 30 minutes while the new paperwork was completed.

That small period without a visa has now been classified as Cotton being in Australia unlawfully, making him ineligible for citizenship.

A frustrated Cotton spoke out to The West Australian after winning his fifth club MVP award on Saturday night.

"That’s what’s caused the delay," he said.

“Because I was in the country of Australia without a visa for that time, that’s what they’re using as the delay. That is what was explained to us. Me getting permanent residency screwed everything because I was detained and in this country without a visa for like 30 minutes.

“I’m in a hole because of 30 minutes which is ridiculous. Who is really making sure they are standing their ground on that? I don’t understand why they’re making sure they’re keeping me from having citizenship. It doesn’t make any sense.”

Ironically, Cotton laughed about having been “detained” during a press conference after receiving his visa in 2021.

Cotton was originally told he had to leave the country to finalise his Distinguished Talent Visa, but Australia’s borders were closed at the time due to COVID. He spent six months in limbo before the government invited him to the meeting in Melbourne during the NBL hub.

Cotton and the Wildcats have engaged lawyers to fight the decision. He is married to an Australian, the pair have a child together and he still has two years remaining on his contract after debuting in 2017.

The delays cost Cotton an opportunity to play at the 2021 Olympics and will also prevent him from being eligible for this year’s World Cup.

Cotton said he would not have attended that meeting or signed the paperwork if he’d been told it would be detrimental to his citizenship dream.

“Why would I go through with permanent residency if you told me it would delay the process of getting citizenship?” he said.

“Going into it, I thought it was part of the process of me getting closer to citizenship. In fact it has delayed it and who knows how long I will be waiting.”

The Australian immigration rules and system are generally ridiculous and a lot of people born here don't realise this. I really feel for Bryce here and hope this can be used to change immigration processes for the better.

This is so amazingly dumb. Obviously someone tried to bend the rules to get around the need to be out of the country to get the DTV, but further up the line someone didnt agree.

This take is wrong though:

"Why would I go through with permanent residency if you told me it would delay the process of getting citizenship?" he said.

"Going into it, I thought it was part of the process of me getting closer to citizenship. In fact it has delayed it and who knows how long I will be waiting.”

Its not permanent residency that has delayed it all, its the DTV. You HAVE to be a permanent resident to get citizenship. The DTV was meant to be the short cut to that, but in reality, once the covid issues delayed it for so long, they should have instead switched to getting residency via partnership visa. You can do that from inside the country.

He likely still wouldnt be processed by now, but he wouldnt be going through this drama. They had a crack at taking the quick way and through some bad advice it looks like he's been burned.

That is really shit. I hope they do go ahead and fight it and have it overturned.

This is a case of someone, somewhere wanting to deny him citizenship.

For this 30 minute window to shop up and deny him is a case of an algorithm flashing red. The process behind it has a loop hole, and some tick box somewhere is now denying him as an arbitrary outcome.

But go high enough up the decision chain, someone can say "Now, this isn't meant to work this way. We will override it.".

Someone has the ability to override this, and they're not.

It's not a mistake.

What I take from this is that the dept. of immigration is just another public service overstaffed by morons who if not for a govt. position would just be unemployable numpties. As mentioned above our tax dollars hard at work.

"This is a case of someone, somewhere wanting to deny him citizenship."

Its more likely someone trying to use a loophole they didnt have authority to use.

"As part of the process, ....

*** Cotton attended a meeting in Melbourne ***

... here the government granted him a Distinguished Talent Visa.

Cotton's normal visa ...

***had to be cancelled >>> during that meeting <<<< ***

... and the star shooter was informed he needed to be legally detained for about 30 minutes while the new paperwork was completed.

*** That small period without a visa ***

has now been classified as Cotton being in Australia unlawfully, making him ineligible for citizenship."

-----

When a guy goes specifically seeks government assistance, and they are the ones who instruct him what to do, and he complies with everything they ask him to do....

For some reason I'm not convinced he is seeking to exploit a loophole.

I am not saying HE was trying to exploit a loophole. But that someone was trying to do it on his behalf.

I read that, and think to myself...

"They guy attends a government office, where government officials say "we will cancel this and put this in place. All will be sorted'.

Bryce and his team, and admittedly my assumption, said something like

"Yeah you guys are the experts here, we will leave it in your hands"....


SO unless the government officials were Bryce Cotton fan boys avoiding process, nothing about'a method to exploit a loophole' stands up.

To me, this is a right hand (in the process) not talking to the left hand, so parts were missed.

This part, which accounted for 30 minutes, is being picked up in an algorithm to deny him, and no decision makers has either the competency or fortitude to assess what was going on and correct the decision.

I think Drexler's assessment is right.

Too many trans-workers in government jobs. Not born as a competent worker, they just identify as one.

If only they could be trans-paid, instead of sucking up real dollars.

The DVT is by design a fast tracking visa for high profile people. Its handled by different teams to those who process citizenship.

Its very possible (maybe even likely) they used the loophole to be able to deliver what they promised (the visa) without getting the approval regarding the citizenship. They don't need to be fanboys to do this,

Its definitely a case of lack of communications between teams etc, but the problem is almost 100% sure the people who used the loophole to process the DVT, not whoever is trying to enforce the actual rules now.

Go straight to Albo, surely someone from the Perth organisation has got his contact, he'll sort it. It’s absolute bullshit, the public service has been ruined by years of incompetence and meddling by politicians.

Absolutely ridiculous and pretty much on point with Australia's hardline/archaic immigration policies

Is this likely to be a case of not being able to be in Australia on two different visas at the same time? Or maybe you have to leave the country to apply for a Distinguished Talent Visa and his existing visa had to be cancelled before the DTV could be issued? Is there anyone with intimate knowledge of the immigration visa system on here who can advise?

The whole thing read like Cotton and the Wildcats got poor advice about processes and requirements.

Nevertheless, you'd think someone would be in a position to exercise a degree of discretion. However, given citizenship is involved, that someone may need to be as high as the Minister?

I am not saying HE was trying to exploit a loophole. But that someone was trying to do it on his behalf.

Dam you scott morrisons...

Is this similar to the Djokovic saga with paperwork being incorrect except Cotton seems like a decent down to earth guy and Djokovic being a lying, arrogant and faking injury wanker.

The only similarity would be that both appear to involve being given advice that their chosen tactic would work. Cotton appears to have applied in good faith that he is doing the right thing. Djokovic was clearly attempting to get around the rules.

Cram - read the ruling re Djokovic application and you will understand what happened. The government admitted his papers were correct so stop the nonsense, he got expelled as he was perceived as a threat.

Cotton should fire his lawyer or sue the government official who advised him as this is known to most people who applied for change of visa - they had to leave the country in order to change the visa status. If the problem was to leave due to covid, he should have gone to the US embassy since it is considered a foreign soil. All in all, this is a very big mess and embarrassment for the government.

he should ask for political asylum, if he goes home he might get bashed or killed by the police

Absolute embarrassment. Cotton was screwed here.

I remember reading a bit of an interview with Cotton around pandemic time and he was told to facilitate the citizenship he had to leave the country and fly back in and he said he didn't want to do that.

Long time first time.

First things first, I heard about this situation at Christmas from someone I know who works for SEG. So it might be worth clarifying that this isn't a new development, in other words it's not that Cotton's situation has got worse. It just explains why his citizenship hasn't been approved after an eternity.

I'd also like to challenge the idea that it's required to leave the country to change visa status. I personally have gone from working holiday to 457 to second 457 to PR to citizen and only once did I leave the country while the application was filed (the first 457, in 2007 - and even that turned out to be unnecessary). What happens is when your new visa is conferred any conflicting old ones are immediately cancelled. So there was a point where I was an Australian with no passport and a UK passport holder with no visa to be in Australia - but that only would have mattered had I left and then tried to re-enter Australia.

Obviously the DVT is a slightly unusual case that presumably isn't automated but what I can't understand is how the same system doesn't apply: if the immigration department could cancel the PR attached to my UK passport simultaneously with me becoming an Australian citizen, why did this ludicrous half-hour gap have to exist in this situation?

Whether or not Cotton has received bad advice this is pretty clearly the type of bureaucratic cock up everyone involved ought to be embarrassed by and want to clear up as soon as possible. The fact it has been going on for over a year is shameful.

"I'd also like to challenge the idea that it's required to leave the country to change visa status"

I don't question your experience, but there are some visas that require you to be out of the country to apply. I believe with the DVT the idea is that its in our national interest to have this person here, but why do they need it if they're already here? So it was built into the requirements around the visa.

Yeah, the requirement to leave the country was specifically a DTV thing.

Albo was just in Perth for mining convention and the footy. Needed one of the (very poor) media to ask him about it then.

Ridiculous if true.

If I was Cotton I would be getting new lawyers. It's not like it’s a new process.

@Dwigt Rortugal

Differece being, in 2007 immigration wasn't called "Border Force". A lot has happened since then under multiple governments to get to where we are now with the current system.

Not surprised by the Australian immigration. Nothing is easy anymore.

There have been a few of these over the past few years, it's not just Bryce:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jan/28/australian-residents-stuck-overseas-during-covid-denied-citizenship-by-government

There's no leeway given in these cases.

It all seems ridiculous to me. We have people living here on permanent visas committing crimes, and others collecting dole checks without ever contributing to society. Bryce Cotton has contributed to Australian sport and has been an upstanding citizen, so why are we giving him the run around? I am quite literally the last guy on the planet who will jump to assume racism in circumstances like this, but could there be a reason that a likeable and popular African-American athlete might be some sort of an issue to these powers that be? Are they making an example of him? One does have to think that the whole saga has been quite odd. I've seen far, far smoother citizenship dances than tis one, that's for sure.

I don't think it’s racism. It’s just a continued slide in standards in the public service. This isn’t unique to Australia either. Hopefully, someone can intervene and common sense prevails.

"There have been a few of these over the past few years, it's not just Bryce:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jan/28/australian-residents-stuck-overseas-during-covid-denied-citizenship-by-government

There's no leeway given in these cases."

And here's the flipside. If Cotton manages to get this overturned, its a case of a wealthy, connected person getting the rules bent for them while regular people are left out in the cold.

Again, I'm not blaming Cotton. He's clearly received bad advice from people he trusts but also from whoever put through his DVT despite not being out of the country.

"I don't think it's racism. It’s just a continued slide in standards in the public service. "

It seems it’s the opposite. I.e., the public service faithfully implementing the rules around DTVs and not granting citizenship to people who’ve been in Australia illegally. Unlike basketball rules, those aren’t just guidelines for subjective application.

@QuokkaWoylie

I don't disagree with your sentiment but these weren't all in 2007. I got my citizenship in 2021.

It's not only Cotton, there is thousands out there in the same boat, some waiting even longer, it’s a disgrace. LNP been in control for twenty of last twenty five years, hopefully it changes back to a decent public service.
As I said previously, get Albo on the phone to pull a few strings. Cotton deserves it.

It took me 12 years to get citizenship here as a doctor for 10 of them.
I was literally treating patients from third world countries who had no respect for Australian culture or values while I have always had to pay for private insurance.

The truth is the easiest path has always been to come on a boat and/or claim victim status. Cotton being black has nothing to do with it, only some clown globalist would make it about race.

It's not race it’s just the Australian immigrant system is that slow that it at least takes up to ten years or more.

Cotton just needs to realise he is in the same boat as many other people waiting for citizenship no matter how high profile you are. Sad part is you need to be lucky being born here or having family relatives from past generations.

It took me 12 years to get citizenship here as a doctor for 10 of them.
I was literally treating patients from third world countries who had no respect for Australian culture or values while I have always had to pay for private insurance.

The truth is the easiest path has always been to come on a boat and/or claim victim status. Cotton being black has nothing to do with it, only some clown globalist would make it about race.

Correct me if I'm wrong - just reading that for the average Joe you can apply for permanent residency after being here for 2 years on certain visas and that can take another 2 years to be approved. Then it's 4 years of permanent residency before you can apply for citizenship followed by another lengthy delay before it's approved no doubt. So 10 years sounds about right but it also sounds absolutely crazy and wreaks of a totally incompetent system.

"I was literally treating patients from third world countries who had no respect for Australian culture or values while I have always had to pay for private insurance."

What does you being annoyed at paying private insurance have to do with immigration?

Probably the fact I was a doctor in the Australian public health system treating migrants who don't bother to learn the language or learn Australian values while I was required to pay for private insurance while ungrateful losers get free treatment and red carpet treatment from the government...I guess you'd be cool with that or something? It took me 10 years from working in some of the most backwards clinics and hospitals in Australia to gain citizenship. But I guess Bryce deserves his sooner because he's black, right?

You may be a doctor but Bryce runs a clinic most games

He sure does. Personally I think it's total BS he hasn't gotten citizenship especially given his wife is Australia and he has a kid with her, so he should be granted automatic citizenship. It's hilarious though that someone would be stupid enough to think he hasn't gotten citizenship because he's black.

I actually checked again and it took me 12, not 10 years to gain citizenship. And about 12k in visa fees over the years.

Drexler
Yesterday

"Correct me if I'm wrong - just reading that for the average Joe you can apply for permanent residency after being here for 2 years on certain visas and that can take another 2 years to be approved. Then it's 4 years of permanent residency before you can apply for citizenship followed by another lengthy delay before it's approved no doubt. So 10 years sounds about right but it also sounds absolutely crazy and wreaks of a totally incompetent system."

You can apply whenever you want but you will never get citizenship after 2 years here. The most regarded visa is a 457 and just to get that will take you 2-3 years alone.

A longer pathway to citizenship should in theory lead to a more cohesive nation; just look at what has happened to Europe when globalism has allowed anyone into the country--totally unrecognisable continent now.

That should say a 457 to 189 visa.

I still don't get the issue with you paying private insurance?

You’re making it sound like you pay to work, but surely you’d be getting paid a pretty dime

It becomes a lot easier to understand once you realise Art is a Nazi.

"just look at what has happened to Europe when globalism has allowed anyone into the country--totally unrecognisable continent now."

I'm guessing you spend a lot more time on Twitter than you do on the European continent.

Dude, you don't see why a doctor would be upset if he could not legally receive treatment unless he paid for it while the people he treats get it free??? What world do you live in????

What's your complaint?

That you couldn’t get Medicare when you weren’t a citizen and you got paid to give free healthcare to citizens?

Dude would you be happy as a doctor not being entitled to healthcare without paying while people who don't even bother to learn the language get it all for free? But you feel sorry for Bryce and claim "racism" because he wasn't granted his citizenship. People with your mentality make no sense to me.

What do you do for work man?

You probably didn't know this but junior doctors don't get paid much...about 75k in QLD...it wasn't until the past few years that i was making 400k+

Only $400k, how on earth do you cope? Sending hugs. Also can you write me a script for whatever you are mainlining I've never hallucinated that hard before, seems like fun!