Bookies have:

Cooks $1.06
Creek $9
Cotton $11

Honestly I don't understand the Cooks hype. I think he’s a very good player but I don’t think he’s had such a dominant season that he should be an absolute lock. Personally I’d vote for Cotton to win, then Creek, then Cooks

Forde publicly claimed Cotton the MVP, Roth said he’s the best player outside the NBA, Mitchell said Cotton is the 2nd best behind his player Creek.

Cotton and Creek are huge value unless there’s been some sort of leak. I’ll be having a bet on Cotton tonight at those odds though.

It's one of those (as per every other year) where there is no right or wrong answer and no selection will have 100% happy.

I will just say that all of the finalists are worthy of the award.

Wins do count much of the time which is why I think Cooks is the favourite, that and there is heavy activity on Cooks now.

Agree BG, Cooks is a very good piece, but only around the ring, no jump shot ,no quality free throws or three point shots. Other than Gaze all the commentators back Cooks. I'm surprised at the odds, it should be a lot closer.

Do not agree with Pinder getting MIP for the second year in a row.

If you get it once then it should be given to someone different.

At least Sotto is leaving so someone who actually deserves it can win the fan MVP next year

It's a no from me Dicko

Cooks won the MVP not sure about that but I did think he deserved to win it last season though.

How's the votings done, I thought it coach and captains that voted. How do they get so large numbers. Mayberry ref of the year, how can that be? He been horrible, Allen been much better.

"Bookies have:

Cooks $1.06
Creek $9
Cotton $11"

That's remarkable. That doesn't reflect the performances at all. Raises integrity questions. I had Cooks personally, but by a bee's dick over the other two. All have been brilliant this year.

So Cotton outscores, shoots better % from FT and 3pts, more assists, steals and less turnovers then Cooks.......

MVP this year has been decided on best man bun, turnovers, missed Ft's, rebounds, bad attitude & most arrogant and loudest team ownership. Makes sense.

MVP Finalists Cotton Cooks Creek
PPG 23.5 16.2 23.4
FG% 40% 60% 50%
3pt% 40% 30% 30%
FT% 90% 50% 80%
APG 4.8 4.2 2.9
Blocks 0.0 0.6 0.2
Steals 1.6 0.5 0.8
RPG 4.4 7.8 7.1
Turnovers 2.0 2.8 1.9

"Agree BG, Cooks is a very good piece, but only around the ring, no jump shot ,no quality free throws or three point shots."

This is a scoring-only assessment. There is much more to making your team better, and Cooks all-around ability as a passer, ball-handler, finisher, decision-maker, screener, roller, ball-screen defender, rebounder, interior defender, etc is unbelievable.

He is a forward version of peak Cedric Jackson, dominates the game without having to take a lot of shots with his all-around skills and ability to make reads quicker than almost anyone on court. When was the last time the MVP averaged 10 shots per game?

Re those lop-sided odds, I see both Cooks and Cotton got 54 votes for All-NBL First Team, that's a much better reflection of how valuable both their seasons were.

But Anonymightymouse

Cotton has more score, assists, less turnovers, better shooting % for 3pt & Ft.

And Cooks has o.6 BPG 0.5 Steals 7.8 RPG...hardly frightening defense.

Maybe it was a one off mean nothing game, kings v cats last round but Manek who I don't really think is great, good though was shooting threes over Cooks D. I’m watching the finals closely to see how other teams start attacking Cooks, I do agree that he is a great passer and around the bucket though. I’ve said Sydney then daylight for last two seasons, I still believe it but there might be a chink or two in the armour.

Anyway congratulations to him, not my choice and I’m still not convinced on how the voting system works.

If you think someone's defence can be measured by blocks and steals, you're probably not looking at the whole picture. There is a reason the coaches and captains voted Cooks the winner, that's because he dominates games with his all-around ability to impact at both ends without being ball dominant or taking a lot of shots.

Was there dunk of the year?

Its weird when the best player in the league doesn't win NBL.

I hear you Anonymightymouse , but it doesn't support my bias towards Cotton being the MVP :)!

Overall I think Cotton makes his team better the way he plays passing, cutting. drawing defensive attention away, opening up the court for his team mates, plus can back it up with his own stats.

Cooks is awesome absolutley.. but I believe he is the second best player....

Bookies have:

Cooks $1.06
Creek $9
Cotton $11

Bookies have:

Cooks $1.06
Creek $9
Cotton $11

In Cotton's 6 complete seasons, has he ever missed top 3? Great effort especially with 3 coaches.

Hard to believe that was Creek's first 1st team gig. He's been close a couple of times

Well deserved COTY for Forde. Out performed all expectations and with McCall and Pinder missing games they kept winning.

Very happy to see Hogg recognised, too.

Ankle Breaker, I hear you with all the things Bryce brings, I'm a huge Cotton fan, thought he should have been MVP last year and I wouldn't have had a problem with him winning this year. Let's hope he's in the league for many years to come!

Perthworld - those odds implied Cooks had a 48.5% probability of winning: probability = 1/(1+odds)

Never been a fan of the "Best Player on the Best Team" winning MVP. It usually never looks great in the following years (let's call it the “Derrick Rose Rule to Voting”).

In saying that, it’s still better than a good player on a bad team dominating statistically à la Brian 'Elbows’ Conklin. Those were the true dark days of the NBL MVP award.

We all know deep down that Bryce Cotton was robbed (and I’m far from a Perth supporter). He’s hands down the best player in the L by every metric.

No mention of other award winners?

Cleveland DPOY
Sam Waardenburg - Next Generation Award
Barry Brown Jr - 6th man

All-NBL First Team

Xavier Cooks (Sydney) - 54 votes

Mitch Creek (South East Melbourne) – 45 votes

Bryce Cotton (Perth) – 54 votes

Milton Doyle (Tasmania) – 42 votes

Derrick Walton Jr (Sydney) – 41 votes

All-NBL Second Team

Keanu Pinder (Cairns) – 33 votes

Dererk Pardon (New Zealand) – 22 votes

Barry Brown Jr (New Zealand) – 37 votes

DJ Hogg (Cairns) – 30 votes

Chris Goulding (Melbourne) – 23 votes

Perthworld - those odds implied Cooks had a 48.5% probability of winning: probability = 1/(1+odds)

Xavier Cooks (Sydney) - 54 votes
Bryce Cotton (Perth) - 54 votes

No mention of other award winners?

Andrew Gaze Trophy for Most Valuable Player
Xavier Cooks (Sydney) - 120 votes
Bryce Cotton (Perth) - 96 votes
Mitch Creek (South East Melbourne) - 80 votes

Most Improved Player
Keanu Pinder (Cairns) - 48 votes
Will McDowell-White (New Zealand) – 46 votes
Sean Macdonald (Tasmania) – 34 votes

Damian Martin Trophy for the Best Defensive Player
Antonius Cleveland (Adelaide) – 37 votes
Dererk Pardon (New Zealand) – 34 votes
Shea Ili (Melbourne) – 26 votes

Best Sixth Man
Barry Brown Jr (New Zealand) – 73 votes
Tyler Johnson (Brisbane) – 41 votes
Rashard Kelly (Tasmania) – 26 votes

Lindsay Gaze Trophy for Coach of the Year
Adam Forde (Cairns) – 64 votes
Mody Maor (New Zealand) – 52 votes
Chase Buford (Sydney) – 34 votes

Next Generation Award
Sam Waardenburg (Cairns) – 47 votes
Sam Froling (Illawarra) – 45 votes
Luke Travers (Perth) – 24 votes

All-NBL First Team
Xavier Cooks (Sydney) – 54 votes
Mitch Creek (South East Melbourne) – 45 votes
Bryce Cotton (Perth) – 54 votes
Milton Doyle (Tasmania) – 42 votes
Derrick Walton Jr (Sydney) – 41 votes

All-NBL Second Team
Keanu Pinder (Cairns) – 33 votes
Dererk Pardon (New Zealand) – 22 votes
Barry Brown Jr (New Zealand) – 37 votes
DJ Hogg (Cairns) – 30 votes
Chris Goulding (Melbourne) – 23 votes

Executive of the Year
Mark Beecroft (Cairns)

Fans' MVP
Kai Sotto (Adelaide)

Gametime by Kmart Award
Reuben Te Rangi (South East Melbourne)

Referee of the Year
Vaughan Mayberry

Would anyone here actually take Cooks number one to start your franchise?

If Cooks was best available you would, but over the whole field of players, no. Cooks plays very well under the Buford system.

No surprises- the only really obvious award was brown Jr, and the votes reflect that

Although like others, I'm surprised Cooks won MVP quite comfortably. Any of the 3 would've been deserving winners. Cotton was dealing with his 3rd coach in 3 seasons, and Creek had some of his big name teammates regularly out of action (Browne, Kell, Broekhoff) so much was expected of him and he delivered. The Cooks/Cedric Jackson comparison is a helpful one. He's a forward version of Jackson for sure. Not as impressive stats but influence, yes.

Well deserved COTY for Forde. Out performed all expectations and with McCall and Pinder missing games they kept winning.

I'm glad Buford didn't win but I do think Maor was more deserving than Forde.
A 1st year Head Coach takes the reigns of a team coming off a couple of train wreck years gets them from dead last to 2cnd place.
NZ only had their full squad available for 4 or 5 games all season due to Covid & injuries.

Maor would've been a deserving winner but I disagree I said last week or whatever I felt Forde should win it. For starters unlike the Breakers the Taipans always have to operate on a shoe-string budget any success against big money clubs like the Kings, United, Wildcats maybe even the Breakers too means if Cairns have a successful season their coach should by definition always be in the running for COTY.

Then Forde had to deal with his best player in Pinder being out for a pretty big chunk of games and they not only kept their head above water during that period (unlike NZB who went to shit when Brown was out late) but the Taipans didn't miss a beat and kept winning. Had to be Forde this season IMO but Maor would've been a worthy winner any other season.

Agree, Maor and Forde both deserving winners. Was the same for a lot of awards this year with multiple great options.

The NBL got the MVP 100% correct.

Cooks is easily the MVP and as per the voting a fair bit of daylight between him and Cotton and Creek.
I understand Ankle Breaker and others grew up on NBA2K where it seems one individual player with the most points gets all the cred. But in the real world of professional basketball the real ones look at what the MVP truly impacts a team and league.
Xavier Cooks leads the league in Defensive Box Plus Minus.... Cooks can defend all positions on the floor, switching onto the very best guards forcing a poor shot. While he is on the floor the Kings grab 74% of defensive rebounds and opposition teams have a low effective field-goal % of just 48% when Cooks is on court.
Whats nuts is Cooks has logged 19% of his minutes at centre, alongside a small power forward teammate like Noi or a bunch of smaller guards.
By these numbers he should've been voted DPOTY, and if there was a team be on the NBL all defense team.
Creek and Cotton do not have an impact defensively that's anywhere near close to Cooks and wouldn't make the all defensive 5th team.
Offensively he shoots at 60%....thats 60%, Cooks doesnt chase shots, Passes the ball and plays the team game.
Now Cooks is so dominant he does all this while playing 7 - 8 LESS minutes than Cotton and Creek!
Cotton averaged 4.8 assists as a guard and Cooks 4.2 assists as a Power Forward and again in 8 less minutes!
This was an easy decision and there is no doubt by those that truly know basketball that Cooks should and did win in a landslide.
Back to NBL2K Ankle Breaker, where YOU can be the MVP (if you can get your Mum to vote).

Cooks also shoots 55% from the FT line which is appalling for a professional and he can't shoot full stop. As much as I like Cooks, he was better last season, I find it laughable that the NBL Media hype machine tries to say he's an NBA player. No NBA team is going to be interested in a PF like him that can't shoot and stretch the defence. Sucks but that's what the NBA is like now plus he would struggle athletically.

On no planet was Cooks a shoe-in for the MVP award last night, contender yes but in no way a look and that $1.06 figure which means it was a virtual guarantee he was going to win it is indicative of the result having been leaked out and those in the know emptied their back accounts on him to win.

Unicorn just wrote an essay on why Cooks deserved DPOY instead of MVP. Well done on making everyones arguement for them. Lol

I've got no issue with Cooks winning MVP this season.
My main beef is with the votes being cast before the season was over, which is nonsensical IMO especially when voters are clearly taking into account things like a team finishing in top spot or a team making/missing the post-season.

It's an individual award but when individuals are hard to split then team record is fair enough to consider as a tie-breaker IMO. Most people's definition of "valuable" would include winning. Similarly, I would expect a player on the last-placed team to have to individually do more to be in contention.

Cooks is both helped and hindered by being in a strong team. He plays fewer minutes because he can. He has a lesser role within his team because they can afford him to, and because not relying on 1 guy is preferable if you have that luxury. That's not his fault. It makes him more efficient, but also means his raw stats are lower.
We can speculate about what might have happened on a weaker team in which he was heavily relied on, but it's not what we're voting on.

I don't see the vote tallies as being too lopsided either.
In a scenario where most voters think Cotton was 99% as good as Cooks, the tallies aren't going to be that close because the votes aren't cast as fractions.

If you make an All-NBL team you've had a bloody good season.

Although disagree with you there Zodiac, Cooks is 100% a NBA player. He brings a unique set of skills that most teams need across passing defending and rebounding. He might get exposed on offense but think hes proven he can bring a tonne of value.

You really only need to look at Jae Sean Tate to realise Cooks could have a role on an NBA team.

If Cooks is an NBA player ask yourself why he isn't in the league then? He had a better season last season and still couldn't get a look in. I'm not trying to shit on him he's a fantastic defensive player, limited offensively which is the most important thing in the NBA these days.

Tate's former Sydney coach Will Weaver was an assistant coach at Houston at the time they signed Tate. That's how the NBA works if you can't get in on talent through the front door then connections can get you in through the back door (Tate and Delly at Sac).

Tate and Cooks are nothing alike, I don't see the similarities in them. In saying that Australian basketball is the flavour of the month and Jack White is the league, even if it’s warming the bench, so cooks is a chance.

The problem I see with Cooks' NBA prospects is that he is a tweener without a jump shot. He could definitely add some versatility defensively to an NBA team, but without an average 3 ball (à la Torrey Craig) he will struggle to see court time. Mitch Creek was in a similar position the year he was on the NBA fringes, and he developed his shot considerably during that time that it has catapulted him to MVP level upon returning to the L.

Cooks makes Tate look like a marksman, and Tate at least has the ability to get to the hoop and use his body and strength to make up for his lack of size. Cooks really only seems to function within a system, and if we straight up swapped Cooks for Sam Froling we’d probably be talking up Sam’s NBA/Euro prospects.

Cooks is good, don’t get me wrong, but any good player would look great in that stacked Sydney team.

Put him in a Draymond type role leveraging his short role playmaking and he'd thrive.

Creek is another one connections, Weaver was an assistant coach at the Nets at the time and they had a relationship from the Boomers where Weaver was also an AC.

"if we straight up swapped Cooks for Sam Froling we'd probably be talking up Sam’s NBA/Euro prospects."

This is the most head-scratching thing I've ever read on hoops, and boy have their been some contenders! Sam is an awesome young player, but he is a long way off being able to contribute what Cooks does at both ends of the court.

One argument to make re: MVP and I'm not saying this is the be all and end all is take that player out of the team and see how well the team does. Kings would still be a Top 6 team without Cooks, SEM would really struggle without Creek and Perth would be down the bottom of the ladder without Cotton. Admittedly Perth's team is built around Cotton so that's a given but Creek is the best player and heart and soul of SEM and Cooks is the best player on a deep team.

"If Cooks is an NBA player ask yourself why he isn't in the league then?"

"Tate's former Sydney coach Will Weaver was an assistant coach at Houston at the time they signed Tate. That's how the NBA works."


You just answered your own question there. Cracking the NBA is as much about opportunity as talent.

No you misunderstood what I was saying, if you can't kick the door down ala Landale to get in you need to rely on connections. Cooks isn't in the NBA because firstly he's too flawed and secondly doesn't have the connections to even get a training camp invite.

No I understood. You summed it up perfectly without knowing it! Probably should also dig a bit deeper about Landale and the Spurs.

No you didn't anon, not for the first time either.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.
The game(votes)
Throughout the year, coaching staff from each team vote on the best performing players in every game, using a 5-4-3-2-1 system at the completion of each match.

Winning teams tend to get the edge in terms of deciding best player for games, most of games I saw had the winning teams best player get player of the game. How many times someone had better stats/game but got robbed by winning teams player who may not have been as good. Walton may have got a couple better games above Cooks, but he played a more complimentary role and stepped up when needed. So Cooks would expect to always be in top 3 as a minimum if the losing teams best player gets second amount of votes.
So Creek and Cotton would lose out in their losses. They get top votes in win, but probably only get 2nd place in losses best case scenario even though they may well have been as good as best player on winning team.
Is there a breakdown of individual game votes that may well indicate that? So just being on a more winning team, statistically Cooks has the advantage automatically getting extra votes. If Phoenix or Perth won as many, Creek and Cotton would have gotten those prejudiced "winning team gets the top vote getter" votes.

Maybe he's not the best player but that's the system we have. AFL have an even more flawed system most years.

That's not how the voting works, at all.

Cooks is the first player in NBL HISTORY to average at least 21.7pts, 10.4 Rebs, 5.7 ast per 36 minutes! These are the numbers Cooks would average if he played Creek and Cotton minutes.

This whining about a below average defender in Cotton and volume shooter in Creek and thinking they're even close to the Dominant Cooks as MVP are officially over.

Cooks is the first player in NBL HISTORY to average at least 21.7pts, 10.4 Rebs, 5.7 ast per 36 minutes! These are the numbers Cooks would average if he played Creek and Cotton minutes.

This whining about a below average defender in Cotton and volume shooter in Creek and thinking they're even close to the Dominant Cooks as MVP is now over. Ball don't lie.

Yes but if Cotton and Creek played 60 minutes a game they'd average three times what Cooks did this season.
See, we can make stupid arguements too.
Cooks can only be judged on what he DID do this season mate.

Nah, Harry Morris would have scored 30 ppg @ 50% on 3 pointers had he been given enough opportunities. He's the real MVP.

Minutes are very relevant to the analysis

United players stats' often look weaker than their competitors because they played less minutes. Happened with Landale, JLA. This season Tucker scored 17.6ppg which was 6th in NBL, but if he played Cotton/Creek/Harvey minutes he'd be scoring 20+

Cotton's minutes are massive (36.3mpg) and I think it impacts his efficiency. Only shot .405% from the field.

Earlier in his NBL career when he was averaging 3 or 4 minutes less, he was shooting a few % higher. Not a coincidence that his FG% has dropped as his minutes climbed.

Of course minutes are relevant. But you cant just imagine if Cooks played more to justify his MVP case. He wins the MVP based on the minutes he actually played. Not stats he might accumulate if his coach wanted him on the floor more.

I think the point is, it's another counter to those who point at Creek and Cotton's stats as reasons Cooks wasn't worthy of MVP. (Apart from the main counter which is that Cooks' influence isn't captured by stats, much like Cedric Jackson or someone like Marcus Lee).

Cedric Jackson got exposed for the mediocre import he was as soon as he left the Breakers and went to United. He got cut pretty quick and was even worse with the Hawks after that. That whole era of the NBL when the league was on it's knees comes with one big asterisk. Tom Abercrombie won Finals MVP one year averaging 11 & 7 in the series.

The NBL almost folded in 2009 and Basketball Australia stepped in to save the league and dramatically slashed teams spending. During the next 4-5 years the Breakers, no doubt in part due to being based in NZ and outside the remit of BA went on a spending spree with some rumoured dodgy deals by their owners the Blackwell's to bring players like Kirk Penney back from overseas.

That was the NBL's low point in the 30 years I've been following the league it was almost at a SEABL level talent wise, the Breakers took full advantage and made hay while the sun was shining and their coach (Lemanis) and supposed best player (Jackson) went onto other teams and got exposed.

Creek and Cotton didn't even get their team into the final four and it’s embarrassing fans think they should be MVP when they’ve losers.

MVP is an individual award, wins are a team stat.

"Cedric Jackson got exposed for the mediocre import he was as soon as he left the Breakers and went to United."

The MVP award is determined over each season. How you play in later seasons doesn't impact the award.

I ran into an ex player and ask ed what he thought, as I told him Cotton should got it, his answer was best player in best team, I suppose that fair enough then.

Who?

Eric Cooks



:p

^^^ hahahaha!

I don't mention names unless I’ve got permission. :::))) lots inside knowledge people like to keep their opinions quiet.

Eric Cooks



:p

@zodiac Basketball Australia made it worse for the teams while they were in charge. They stripped money out of the NBL and gave it to the WNBL. They gave the Sydney Kings a secret deal to underwrite their losses in year 1 ( which is why David Koch vanished so quickly) Then Tony Cochrane was brought in and then Larry Kestleman. Cochrane negotiated BA out of the deal for the owners which gave Kestleman the opportunity to take over.

BA at one point tried to get the owners to hand over 100% ownership of the teams to them. You can imagine how Jack Bendat and the Blackwells' reacted to that amongst others.

The fatal flaw for the NBL at the time was getting caught in the Murdoch destruction of ONE HD. The TV ratings on ONE were multiples of what they are today. Then the protection of Foxtel occurred and the BA signed TV contract saw the NBL get sidelined as they were heavily weighted in favour of the broadcaster.