Embarrassing

Ruining the reputation of Aussies as hard nosed, tough competititors and unselfish role players developed over the past 10 years (Bogut, Delly, Ingles, Baynes, Mills).

Now those guys are mostly gone and Australia will become known as the home of prima donna, soft as butter quitter

Unfucking believable, head shaking.

I really hope that after the coming offseason he can get past this, come in fresh for 2022/23 and show the doubters wrong. Its so hard to continue supporting him but given mental health is a serious issue I cant help but continue to have his back.

Nets with a big 3 of Simmons, Kyrie & Durant hopefully will push them further than they went this season.

I dunno, I think Simmons is the standalone in regards to the pissweak attitude in whoever are left/incoming... Giddey is obviously a HUGE contrast to him and Dyson Daniels has worked his tail off, even Dante, if he manages to get another NBA gig, cannot be called anything but the exact opposite of Simmons after all his injuries and setbacks...

"Nets players and coaches wanted to see Simmons show resolve and enter this series to start his on-court Brooklyn tenure, even if it was for limited minutes on Monday or none at all while still dressing for the game."

This is exactly it... Ben has showed ZERO enthusiasm to be wanting to be on the court again, either in warm ups, interviews or sitting on the bench... Say what you want about the Nets, for those players who are playing through injuries and/or working their butts off out on the court, it's got to piss them off to see him peacocking around, cashing his cheques...

He's a cancer to whatever team he's at now and should just give it up and go live on instagram and COD games...

I've been critical of Simmons' character for a while now, dating back to his decision to jerk the Boomers around for the 2019 world cup and his various ridiculous displays in Melbourne (crown casino saga). And in return there's been a subset of people on this forum who've always defended Ben. They've always had a ready-made excuse for his ongoing idiocy. Can we now see that this guy is simply defective? He dipped on the Boomers for a perceived insult almost 10 years ago. Now he's got psychosomatic back issues going back to a coach and a teammate daring to question his lack of improvement across five seasons. We can call these 'mental health issues' but it goes beyond that now. Ben isn't going through a phase. This is who Ben Simmons is - an unreliable, shifty jerk. And what makes it worse is he is still being paid tens of millions of dollars to sit there in a clown suit, perfectly healthy and physically fit to play, but STILL making excuses a full year after the fact. The guy is weak. If you cant step on to a basketball court, for millions of dollars, a full year after the event, surrounded by some of the best sports psychologists and networks on the planet - you're weak. And it's not like he grew up in a war zone. If anything he's lived a life of privilege, pushed up all the levels of the basketball fraternity but choosing to sit out whenever the team wasn't suited to his liking. He's an entitled, narcissistic brat. There are a lot of people who experience mental health issues - I can put my hand up and say I have. But of the thousands of players to play the NBA over the decades I cant think of one - NOT ONE - who has handled it the way Ben has. Reggie Miller said it best - the kid has NO fire. No drive. No ambition. He's not even a basketball player at this point. He's an overpaid cheerleader. The circus should have ended the moment Ben left Philly but still he remains in his clown suit...

If he gets penalised more for not playing than he gets paid for playing, then we might see a change. (And 'not playing' includes DNPs until he’s seen to be putting in the effort and interest and skill.)

He and his agent have made enough to live comfortably, so they can’t cry poor if the Nets start penalising him heavily.

In the meantime, let him work with the experts to fix his head / back / technique / etc. But I hold out little hope of him ever being more than a showy spectator.

Seems completely possible to me that he never actually plays another NBA game. I mean, 36 million dollars from this season alone. Probably double that the seasons he did play. He never needs to work again. But don't worry, I am sure he will executive produce some documentaries that infer he is a victim of some sort.

To me this is actually more evidence that he does have some really strong mental health issues to deal with. I'm not saying this as a "this excuses all". He clearly hasn't gotten the help he needs so he and his inner circle bear that responsibility absolutely.

My problem with the 'mental health issues' argument is he's been like this consistently for years. He left junior teams when they weren't run specifically for him. He messed around the Boomers for almost a decade. He did what he did with the Melbourne trip. It's a pattern of behaviour. Sounds almost like a personality disorder rather than a reaction to any specific single event. And when someone has a personality disorder the problems don't just clear up when you change the environment - as has been shown by the move to the Nets. His inner circle are certainly failing him and he's failing himself. If he wants to walk away from basketball with tens of millions in hand right now that's his perogative. But this current behaviour will make him radioactive when it comes to any future trades or deals. Even if he were to go on and have an MVP season after this teams and GMs would question just how mentally fit Ben can be at any given time. Liv Simmons has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and those things run in families. It would not surprise me that Ben has something similar.

This, absolutely...

Not discounting people who have legitimate mental health issues, but this isn't a new thing with Ben and it just points down to being mentally weak, which isn't a mental health issue, it's an issue with being babied for too long and never really tested to be able to succeed... Compare him to any other Australian that has made the NBA and it's clear what the differences between them are...

I've said before I see a fair bit of Simmons in my younger brother with the avoidance issues. My brother is a chef and he only ever lasts 6-12 months at one place someone higher up will question stuff he's doing suggest an alternative barely even an argument but he decides he never wants to see or speak to that person again and the only way to guarantee is to quit. That cycle has been repeating itself at his last 12-15 workplaces.

Everyone has to walk on eggshells around him because if you say something he doesn't like he refuses to speak to you again which he's done with all his family except our mother. It must be an incredibly difficult way to live all the people and workplaces he chooses to avoid.

Anyway I've noticed a similar pattern in Simmons that he seems to want to staunchly avoid people that have 'wronged' him like Lemanis not picking him for the 2014 WC team and Doc Rivers & Embiid for mildly questioning his play in last year's playoffs.

Not only that but like my brother he expects people who have 'wronged' him to bend over backwards to make amends like how Simmons refused to accept the coach's phone calls during the offseason but expected him to turn up to meet Simmons in person at his favoured training facility and because the coach didn't he had now slighted Simmons further, in his own mind.

I think it's clear at this point Simmons does have some genuine mental health issues and needs a serious intervention before the behaviour patterns become too set or he just needs to cut a deal with the Nets and NBA and retire. We all saw what happened last time he played and his avoidance issues then, I actually wouldn't be surprised if he never played again.

Well for as long as Ben has played basketball he's had teams change to suit him. As soon as that has not been the case, he's left the team. His parents and family have always pushed teams around for Ben and because Ben happens to be extremely gifted, it's worked for him. He's never until 2014 felt the disappointment of being cut from a team. He's never had to deal with a coach he didn't like for any longer than he wanted to. He was 'the man' on every team he played on right up until he ended his time with LSU. It's definitely a different story to Giddey who never had expectations of turning pro as a teen, despite his dad's coaching, and who missed out on junior representative teams, somewhat humbling him. Now Ben is in the NBA and he's no longer 'the man' on every team he plays on. Coaches have expectations of him that push outside his comfort zone (ya know, outside of just passing and running the floor - DEVELOP A DAMN JUMP SHOT). Couple that with a coddled upbringing, and most likely a personality disorder and Ben is crumbling under the pressure. He can no longer up-and-leave a team and just land in another one with tens of millions on the table. Coaches aren't going to listen to his dad when he says he needs to be played X, Y or Zd way. For all his network and everything around him, Ben is now seen as accountable to himself and he has not built the coping mechanisms to deal with it that most kids get while going through the knocks of progressing through the ranks. His natural, otherworldly gifts (in the Australian context anyway) are both his gift and his curse.

Thanks for sharing Zodiac.

It can be tough for us to understand how issues can affect behaviour.

Continuing to undermine his issues as not being legitimate (which has happened a lot subtly and overtly in the above and other threads) when you have no knowledge of his personal situation isn't helpful.

Again, I'm not saying he isn't responsible for finding the support he needs (which he clearly hasn't done yet) but most of us who are not battling these kinds of issues don't always do what is best for us (and often do the opposite instead).

That he hasn't found the right support is not evidence that he is making it up.

That he's had these issues for years is not evidence that it's a made up excuse.

Well I don't think it's a made up excuse in the sense that I am sure if all things were well Ben would prefer to play basketball. But I think a mix of a coddled upbringing and some personality disorder has led to Ben taking any slight from anyone as a massive issue, and it's also led to mental weakness the likes of which you dont see in professional athletes. He's really at a crossroads now though. If he isn't playing by next season his NBA career could very well be over.

Good stuff Zodiac.

So let's for argument's sale say Simmons does have these mental health issues. Does this mean he is in the wrong/should be punished for this behaviour/what's the situation for accountability. And how does his commitment to working on these issues weigh into the prior questions?

You tell me, I'm looking to be educated here. Obviously you have some decent experience with this.

Thybulle is turning out to bea proper headcase in his own right, don't forget about him lol. Gotta feel bad for the 76ers org, they just can't seem to get a break with all these australian american knobheads..must be something in the water i guess...

"He's really at a crossroads now though. If he isn't playing by next season his NBA career could very well be over."

I agree with this.

I remember there was a guy in the draft a few years ago who had anxiety issues which manifested as a fear of flying. Royce White? He was considered a lottery level talent but his career was over before it started because he couldnt get that under control. Nobody questioned that he had a genuine issue, but at the same time if its unable to be sorted (whether through lack of trying or not) there's not much any team can do to help them. Its really the same as talented players with debilitating physical injuries. Not all of them have done everything they could possibly have done to get right (and stay right) while some have and have still ended up out of the league because its too much of a risk to any team.

Manu,

I have had a lot of experience with the effects but none with successful outcomes. My brother is still the same way now in his 40's and in fact getting worse he just threw away a great position he had for nearly two years one that he said he loved because management had a talk to him about finding efficiencies.

No argument or blow up nothing like that he just turned around and quit threw it all away the good money the free accommodation everything and now move back home to live with mum he's virtually broke got no furniture nothing other than a fridge and x-box to his name.

Our mum is in her 70's and going through chemo for breast cancer at the moment and all the stress that comes with that and a woman her age having to lose all her hair just no thought from my brother whatsover about all the added stress he's putting her under. It's like an ultra self-absorption to the point of self-sabotage that I see in Simmons too.

As my brother cuts anyone out of his life that questions him he's narrowed his world down to so few people, who know to tread the line, that there's not much possibility of him hearing differing points of views let alone the ability to reflect on how his decision making has put himself in the position he's now in, repeatedly.

I can't offer any sort of potentially successful technique to deal with it. It's clear both need some form of counselling as they won't listen to those closest to them but I fear with Simmons he's become so wrapped up in his own mindset he himself probably doesn't know what to do anymore. He probably associates playing basketball games with needing to score to being fouled to going to the FT line, missing under the pressure and being repeatedly humiliated. Therefore playing basketball games = humiliation.

Having mental health issues isn't a free pass to be an asshole.

I don't understand the argument that "it’s not mental illness, he’s always been like this". Is it not possible to battle something like anxiety for decades? I’m guessing there’s an element of learned behaviour and lack of consequences (long term contract isn’t hurting him) but I’d bet if he could snap his fingers and solve it, he would. I’m guessing he’s only recently learning how serious this all is, whereas previously size and talent patched over any shortcomings.

@isaac, it's not the just ths anxiety issues alone, it's the attitude problems to go with it as well , besides if he was indeed aware of his anxiety issues all along, then maybe, just maybe he shouldn't have chosen a spectator sport as his career choice to begin with? , cos surely performing in front of a packed crowd is only going to exacerbate his issues..

"Having mental health issues isn't a free pass to be an asshole."

I know he isnt perfect - but cant remember the last time he acted out as an 'asshole'

To be honest he has kept pretty quiet all season...

Spot on Isaac.

These mental health issues would've always been there and none would know that better than his family and all the perceived 'molly-coddling' from the outside. I dare say normally these people probably get 'weeded out' as kids in junior programs but because Simmons was likely viewed as so freakishly tall and talented people bent over backwards for him, probably got rid of a teammate or coach he didn't like here and there along the way.

Remember when BA hired a relative or family friend of his as an assistant coach in the hope it would convince him to come back and play for the Boomers? Still didn't work because BA had 'wronged' him previously via Lemanis.

@big fudge, you can be quiet and still be an asshole, while simmons isn't known to lash out verbally or get involved in physical altercations with teammates, he's notorious for using passive aggressiveness to blame others and make himself out to be the "poor, innocent victim".

Narendra - can you elaborate or give me some examples where this has happened? in particular recently?

He clearly has a mix of character flaws and mental health issues. Most NBA players go through adversity but they still suit up the next season. Ben isn't built like that. As for times he's been an asshole, he's been arrogant any time he's questioned about his flaws, often pointing to his stats as evidence of not needing to improve. He is more often evasive and passive aggressive though.

As for how much he is to blame, well people cant change who they are without first being aware of the problems and then having a will to change. It seems like Ben is surrounded by 'yes men' and he is probably weeding out dissenters. But mental illness or not, he is inseparable from his problems and they are a reflection of who he is, and we're yet to see what appears like improvement. In that much he is definitely to blame. What course of action can be taken? Well it might be unfair to grill him publicly if he simply doesnt have the capacity to suit up. If it's just beyond him in some sort of pathological way. But at the same time, he shouldnt be collecting multimillion dollar cheques for work he is not suiting up for. Any one of us would have been fired, mental illness or not.

Veteran's minimum his next contract ..

retards need to stop throwing around the term "personality disorder"
you're not a psychiatrist so shut the fuck up
as far as shitmons goes, he has clearly had some issues but he also got thrown into the worst fanbase in the NBA
fans demand results now. he's still young, and KD and kyrie are not going anywhere. a season next year on the nets might be exactly what he needs to mature as a player and person

you're not a psychiatrist so shut the fuck up

Mental Health vs personality

People seem to be diagnosing Simmons themselves.

I don't think we will ever find out officially if he even has a diagnosis.

I have postgrad qualms in mental health field (1 1/2 Masters) but I n not a psychologist or psychiatrist. I understand that I can’t diagnose, but I’m pretty decent at making appropriate referrals for diagnosis.

It can be extremely difficult to separate diagnosis from personality. Which comes first? Even the term borderline personality disorder includes "personality" in its name.

I think the organisation/s have probably tried to refer him for help already, if for no other reason than to protect their investment.

Is Liz Simmons his mother? Does she actually have a bipolar diagnosis?

People are claiming he had these issues since juniors. IFF (a very big WAY FF) he has inherited bipolar disorder, he would not have been diagnosed as such as a kid by any reputable diagnostician. I worked with a 7 years old without that diagnosis, but he was on the same meds as his mother with the diagnosis. Those sorts of labels are just too heavy to hang on kids, and some can’t be applied until a level of developmental maturity is reached.

Did he attend a public school as a kid, or even a well resourced private school? A good operator at a school would recommend an assessment, which would probably be labelled as ODD with comorbid ADHD. It’s the most common dual diagnosis in kids, and the Oppositional Defiance Disorder part can be applied to a lot of presenting behaviours that are more appropriately diagnosed into adulthood.

If you were the parent of a young basketball prodigy, would you give your child Ritalin or similar medications that stunt growth and suppress the appetite? As a guide of thumb, you can tell when a kid with ADHD has skipped Ritalin because they’re famished and eat voraciously. A good school will let them eat, contact parent/s and give them a backup dose. Then just try to help them with a calming setting until it kicks in. Other medications slow down processing speeds and physical movement speeds and reaction times. Would you want that for a basketball prodigy. IFF that theory applies, maybe he was just given fish oil supplements instead of evidence based treatments like medication and Cognitive Behaviour Therapy.

IFF the speculation about mental health issues while growing up is true, then I’d suggest that certain trade offs were made in his youth to allow his physical skills to develop.

"Is Liz Simmons his mother? Does she actually have a bipolar diagnosis?"

Liv Simmons is his sister and she has bipolar as confirmed by her family in recent articles about her claims against her stepbrother.

Absolutely mental for mine. Maybe it started as the yips or something, but it's grown, and I do actually think there is a chance he can’t overcome this. I hope it’s not the case as it would be a sad finish to a promising career. I’m surprised you can’t medically retire or pause a contract for mental health issues much like you can a physical injury. That way a team can get out from under the contract as can a player.

I'm surprised you can’t medically retire or pause a contract for mental health issues much like you can a physical injury. That way a team can get out from under the contract as can a player.

Here to see who makes excuses for this dude.

He wants to be in LA, hence he is driving his trade. First thing was to get out of Philly. Given the nets just gave away Harden for free, we know they will trade for anything now.

I agree with the thinking that he ultimately wants to be in LA, with the Lakers rather than the Clippers. It all depends on Boss LBJ.

He might recover really quickly in LA. LOL

It's such a taboo subject/no go area to call out faked mental health issues (which I understand the reasons for). But I also see how doing so abs value - as fakers discredit the pain of real sufferers. It’s probably best left for medical expert opinion?

I thought Jay Williams comments about his behaviour were quite noteworthy and he raised some good discussion points. He basically questioned that if someone was suffering from mental health issues; wouldn’t they likely stay home/take some space in. Rather than sitting courtside in extravagant clothing screaming "look at me" & “give me attention”.
Again there may be valid medical/psychological reasons for the at behaviour but as a non-expert it does seem strange.

Suggesting that someone with MH issues should behave in a certain way just highlights the lack of understanding in MH (in all of us)

I'm willing to concede he likely has some mental health issues and there is a pattern of behaviour stretching out for at least a decade. He probably does have some real anxiety about stepping back onto a court and doing so for the first time in game 4 of a playoff probably wasn't going to be the best reintroduction to the game. If I am playing devils advocate, the best thing for him would be to play summer league. Get on a basketball court without all the bright lights and expectations in a lower level of play and just get the feel for the game again. Even if he subs on, inbounds the ball, and subs off, he's made progress. I think even that would have been enough for most people though, if Ben showed some sign of some intention. It's a hard juggle between offering job security and support for someone who likely is going through some mental issues and then not just throwing millions of dollars at someone who is unable to hold up their end of the bargain. You'd want to see signs of fight from Ben. Something that says that sometime this guy can be a killer who actually can face the rigours and criticism of the league. I understand offering that flexibility and understanding but the clock definitely is ticking. If he's not making strides by early next season it could be done. And then what? He'll be an old man looking back on his short NBA career wondering what might have been. He needs to be bigger than that. Just suiting up for Game 4 would have been a small step in the right direction but he didn't take it. He's only going to get so many chances.

I think changing up his inner circle would be a good start

He should retire. Cut up his contract. And get himself right. He hasn't got a mental block when it comes to staying on the book$$$$$

Gotta stay away from those darn Kardashians