I'm still interested but once I have to split my viewing time between NBL & AFL I watch a lot less non-Wildcats NBL.

100% yes

NBL needs to finish before AFL gets going

Or, given the AFL is starting earlier too these days, maybe NBL finals could clash with Round 1 but that's about it.

This is still a covid hangover though right? After June playoffs last year. Assume NBL will be back to October-March for 22/23?

Possibly, imo the season hasn't been that great, kings maybe the exception, can’t see them getting beat.

It's been an extremely boring season.

I prefer watching overseas leagues (various sports) to anything domestic except for NBL, but even that is at risk now.

There have been a number of really bad, one-sided games - some stemming from long breaks, covid etc. There have also been some excellent games, and in particular I've been enjoying the JJs run in particular. *Shrug* I think the league is not quite at pre-COVID levels, especially the imports, but still a great product. I don't follow any other domestic sports or leagues, so the AFL/NRL schedule isn't a factor for me.

The officiating has gone back to 2013 levels and the parity of 2015-17 has completely vanished. Some of which is COVID absolutely murdering the Breakers but the Taipans and Bullets are well off the pace. The Crocs won the spoon some years ago and missed the playoffs by like two games. Those days are long gone.

Yeah, Breakers is a good point too. Talent-wise with 50% home games this is a top 4 contender

I put the lack of interest down to a few things - mid season lull in interest, weirdly constructed teams, a dip in import quality, lack of exciting young Aussies coming up, COVID, lack of parity, lack of athleticism and a move away from more free-flowing basketball.

To be honest I've mentally checked out this season. It sometimes is harder when your own team is as woeful as Adelaide has been. And I am sure Cairns, Brisbane and Kiwi fans feel the same. I feel like the season started out strong enough but yes... it's outstayed its welcome. The games are becoming a bit tedious. And I feel like one extra team might be one extra too much from a talent point of view.

Moving forward I'd push the import rules out to four imports per team and incentivize teams to ACTUALLY USE the spots. The NBL should seek to be the very best product possible and you do that with less Mitch McCarron and more Jaylen Adamses. Most Aussies should be nothing more than role players at best in any league that takes itself seriously. Sad situation, but we tend to create basketball robots that are fundamentally sound but cant take a game by the scruff of the neck the way an Antonious Cleveland has proven he can.

Anyway, underwhelming season so far, with really not a lot of note happening. I see the talent spread a bit thin and I feel like there's been a step back in TV production value as well as everything else in the league. Yes it's COVID times but there is a lot to address to get the league back where it should be in my view.

COVID has screwed up the import market along with everything else.

Breakers have only been fully healthy for two or three games, on top of the lack of home games, and they've looked phenomenonal at times.

Mccaron is on good money but it's probably half what Adams earns. They better double the salary cap if you go with four imports as most clubs third import and some all imports have been crap.
The biggest problem is most clubs can’t compete with salary compared to the top few.

The Covid breaks basically stuff it for me, along with the Sixers performance. Half way through the year i just did not give a crap, still turned up for all the games as i paid for my membership but just kept thinking why am i putting myself through this. As a consequence I have not followed the league outside of our games and could not tell you who is top of the ladder right now.

It might be i'm just jaded now after years of bad teams. I take solace in the fact I experienced all the fun in the 90's and the championships, but it does feel like I go to the games now out of some kind of blind faith or almost ritual come habit.

I like the unpredictability of the NBL to be honest its anyones game any day. Id rather watch a bottom of the ladder nbl game than the NBA right now I know its a big call but the clinical nature of the US game and the strategic tanking of shitty rosters for better draft picks is boring as batshit to me. Not AFLW boring but uninteresting nonetheless.

Yeah well.. when it comes specifically to the Sixers, I just look at how I value my time. Is it a reasonable use of my time to watch and support a team that so utterly disappoints me? No it's not. That might mean I am not a "real fan" in someone's eyes but I don't really care. We have only so many moments in our lives and I'd prefer not spend them on watching a team embarrass themselves.

It was very sad to see 1st on the ladder United play 3rd place Hawks with only 4500 at John Cain Arena.

I haven't seen it that empty in a long time.

Do Melbourne still have crowd restrictions?

Either way I definitely feel like the league is going backwards.

"The biggest problem is most clubs can't compete with salary compared to the top few."
The new shiny LK NBL. Nothing has changed, plus we now how the owner of this fantastic new NBL assisting his own (many) teams.
The lack of interest even goes to the lack of Jack Toft and no game day topics here. Even with the Jackies having a good season no one seems to care.

Do Melbourne still have crowd restrictions?

Not sure.

Can anyone confirm?

Name me a sport that does not get boring once your team is out of finals contention. Will you watch your wooden spoon team in the AFL ?

If I was an adelaide or breakers fan I would have likely tuned out, but fair to say JJ's fans have some exciting games ahead to watch. But SEM fans are putting a fork in it.

Even in NBA once teams get into tanking for draft you cant say that is exciting.

Perhaps you're right Ballman. And if so, that in itself is a reason for the NBL to take stock of the parity situation. Parity = more fan bases staying engaged for the entire season

Sounds like we'd better bring back the points cap! ;)

With Collingwood v Geelong also on last night at the G not surprised it was a small crowd.

"Sounds like we'd better bring back the points cap!"

Funny thing is they didn't get rid of it. Just changed it and allowed teams to pay to go way over it.

Melbourne vs Ess Fri night, Coll vs Geelong last night, St Kilda vs Rich today, Carl vs Haw today, Dogs played Thursday night

North (probably the smallest Vic club in terms of supporter base) played in Brisbane but the other 9 teams all played in Melbourne

Sports fans don't have unlimited time and money, of course United and SEM crowds were bound to reduce after the AFL season started, much like I assume would be happening in Perth and Adelaide, where AFL's almost as big

Wildcats routinely sell out games while competing directly with the AFL.

Across those 5 AFL games in Melbourne this weekend, crowds will total about 200,000

In Round 1 a fortnight ago, 5 games in Melbourne, crowds over 260,000

Plenty of people follow both sports, in fact I would suggest a huge percentage of United fans would also follow AFL

Again, NBL needs to recognise who the top Dog is and stay with summer, although covid can't be helped, this will reset next year presumably

I think increasing finals to a 5th team (maybe with sudden death play off between 5th and 6th) would still give lower end teams something to strive for.

Isn't the main reason the NBL season has run into the AFL season that Covid caused some delays?

I think AFL crowds are down compared to historical crowds too - Covid still having an effect.

"I think increasing finals to a 5th team (maybe with sudden death play off between 5th and 6th) would still give lower end teams something to strive for."

They dropped the ball big time by not creating some sort of play in tournament after adding another team. To have only 4/10 teams make the playoffs isn't good.

I just came back from a weekend spent in Melbourne for a wedding. Talking with people there, they are still very very wary about attending indoor events. Small sample size obviously, but that is word I got. Even just walking around the city, people were way more nervous than Sydney. Not difficult to understand. Give it 12 months and see where we are at.

Kobe only 1 game a week in Perth though. Multiple in Melbourne

LV said he assumed crowds would be down in Perth now that AFL has started.

Which they are at the NBL with a 50% cap.

The 50% cap ended a couple of days ago, and isn't relevant to the point under discussion anyway.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of yet another KR truth telling. So what's the cap now KR?

Crowds have been poor at RAC Arena lately

That would be due to covid, plus competing with the footy, plus Wildcats having so many games in quick succession

The Wildcats have sold out every game since they came back to Perth, but go off.

Yeah, TBH I don't really understand why they keep delaying the seasons, and then we still have to put up with Covid Scheduling.

Was pretty obvious for this season IMO, but looking good for a normal start to the next.

Why are they doing 50% capacity?

Oh that's right, it's WA

They're not, anymore.

We've just been through the peak of the omicron wave. There were restrictions for a few weeks. Do you suggest that instead we should just kill off some people?

I've been slowly checking out from the NBL for the last few years. For me, there seems to be a "generic" factor that I don't like. For example, all the court designs look exactly the same. Same national sponsors in the same places on the court. The courts as a result are also very ugly. What happened to painted keyways with the local teams major sponsor, or the team colours? Theres very little of that going around. The only team identity that I can see is on the sidelines, where local sponsors are used with the team colours only along the sides.

The quality of the games are also not that interesting. Too scrappy, too low quality and not exciting enough. There are highlights, but seems to be less of that lately.

Covid issues as mentioned have also impacted the interest in the league for me. Crowd limitations in Perth have meant I'm less keen to go to a game. I'd rather go when theres a full house rather than 50% capacity, just for the atmosphere alone.

TV production: I hate the TV deal and the coverage with it. I don't have ESPN, so I barely see any NBL. And when I do, its with the same commentators, saying the same things over and over. There is nothing interesting about the league from the broadcast. Every controversy that Homicide brought to the coverage years ago, is now normal today. Think it needs some freshening up as its gone stale and generic for my liking. I half blame this on the leagues decision to call games from a studio several years ago too.

The main stream media - or lack of it - has made the league pretty hard to follow too. Its so much easier following the NBA with the amount of content that comes out and is easily available. The NBL has none of that. I don't really like reading their (the NBL's) own press releases, so there is not a lot of media attention on the NBL. Its been like that forever, but kind of seems worse now with the crossover into the AFL season.

[Do you suggest that instead we should just kill off some people?]

Omicron isn't killing anybody- there's 53,952 active cases in WA right now and only 7 people in ICU. (221 in hospital but this will include many patients who are asympomatic or mild, and only tested because they were in-patients for other reasons).

But anyway, Mr McGowan can do what he likes, it's his state and if the WA people are on board with all the gaslighting they've received over recent months, who am I, a humble foreigner, to disagree

Is there anything you're not horribly wrong about?

"Is it just me or has the NBL overstayed its welcome on the Australian sporting landscape for 2022?"

I love NBL so I'm not complaining, but yes I’d say it has by virtue of edging into sacrosanct AFL territory + the drawn out inconsistent nature of NBL, more so early on, that he teams out due to covid protocols.

Both are obviously the effect of covid and I imagine/hope, will not be as bad next season onwards. We just cop it for what it is this time around.

“the parity of 2015-17 has completely vanished”
Obviously you’ve mentioned NZs extraordinary circumstances, but in the case of Cairns/36ers/Bullets - they all have new coaches this year and Machado hasn’t been 100%, Sobey has been injured, Humphries out almost all season, plus they’ve all had some rotating door of players.

That kind of instability happens in sport and money doesn’t necessarily solve it (but yes it does make life easier).

I know you’ll think “but Perth” - those three clubs don’t have the leeway to handle the disruption of a new coach or injuries like Perth does. Perth are built fantastically, those other clubs aren’t in comparison.

I do think parity is important, particularly for a club like Cairns that shouldn’t have to be “savvy” to compete moneyball style. That’s one of the biggest challenges ahead for the NBL, keeping talent whilst lifting poorer clubs like Cairns.

“I hate the TV deal and the coverage with it. I don't have ESPN”

I can see how that would create disinterest, not having access to it. Unfortunately, there will never be the opportunity for mass-NBL coverage on FTA, nor any semblance of money paid to compete with subscription providers.

Kayo $25pm/$15pm if you have Telstra, for a few months without being locked in is pretty decent if you can afford it.

"I've been slowly checking out from the NBL for the last few years. For me, there seems to be a "generic" factor that I don't like. For example, all the court designs look exactly the same. Same national sponsors in the same places on the court. The courts as a result are also very ugly. What happened to painted keyways with the local teams major sponsor, or the team colours? Theres very little of that going around. The only team identity that I can see is on the sidelines, where local sponsors are used with the team colours only along the sides."

I agree with this. I often watch NBL games and wonder what it might look and feel like on a court that looks like a professional basketball court, where the colours and promotional material looks more appealing. Some of the courts and arenas are just plain ugly and detract from the product. Humans are visual creatures and if it looks ugly we're not going to be drawn to look at it.

"The quality of the games are also not that interesting. Too scrappy, too low quality and not exciting enough. There are highlights, but seems to be less of that lately.
"

Officiating seems to have allowed that to be the case. I'd also say talent stocks have taken a hit. The Jack Jumpers have taken the 7th and 8th best prospects of most teams which does dillute talent over time. And the imports have generally been underwhelming bar a small handful.

The NBL seems intent on trying new things, which I think is the saving grace here. This season isn't really working out on a few fronts, so I think they'll have some new ideas and will try some new things in the upcoming season. They always find something. COVID and a few other things have made it a bit difficult but I have no doubt that LK is on the case.

"The Wildcats have almost sold out every game since they came back to Perth, but go off." Corrected for accuracy. 50% capacity.

The NBL is too focussed on the NBL brand over team brands. I get it, but without the individuality it is getting so boring. Strong team brands will help the NBL long term.

Sponsors on the uniforms and courts are way too big and in your face. As ME says, I often tune in and take 3 or so minutes to figure out who's home game it is, and I know the teams. A casual fan must find it very difficult.

I have a weird feeling the NBL has peaked here, and we may be slowly moving backwards for the next while. Need major changes in my opinion to improve the TV product so its actually watchable.

FWIW, NBL crowds in Perth this regular season:

Friday 3rd December 2021 - 11,950 (82% of capacity)
Sunday 5th December 2021 - 10,800 (74% of capacity)
Sunday 12th December 2021 - 11,295 (78% of capacity)
Friday 17th December 2021 - 11,745 (81% of capacity)
Sunday 19th December 2021 - 13,615 (94% of capacity)
Sunday 20th March 2022 - 6,927 *Restricted capacity
Thursday 24th March 2022 - 6,678 *Restricted capacity
Saturday 26th March 2022 - 6,906 *Restricted capacity

Copied from https://www.austadiums.com/sport/comp/nbl/fixture

It's hard to tell if the season has dragged on too long or it's just the Sixers being hard to watch. I think the NBL definitely suffers when forced to compete with the AFL though. I found myself having to weigh up between the 36ers and the Showdown on Friday - an easy decision with the way the 36ers season has gone.

I'm not sold on the Television deal. Last season we had access to all games on SBS or OnDemand. I haven't watched any FTA games this season. I had to buy a Kayo subscription to guarantee I'd see away games. Good for the league to be having a payday, but punters comparing this season and last - they're looking at having to pay money.

Scheduling isn't great, and maybe it's just for our family / location / work arrangements, but Weekdays at 7 just doesn't fly, we've missed most of them because we can't get from work to the kids OSHC to dinner to the game. It works for the broadcast partners but not for us as a season ticket holder. There's a good chance we'll drop our Season Tickets next season in favour of maybe a 4 or 5 game membership just because we're paying money for games we logistically can't get to. The AEC sight lines, again, are terrible in comparison with what we were used to at the Arena. The kids are forced to stand up and move around to see as we're in the lower bowl. We couldn't get a group of seats up top when we tried so we couldn't even downgrade our seating for a better view!

It's hard to stay enthusiastic when there are so many niggles. It's easy to say and harder to do but putting a team on the court you can trust to put up a fight every week makes a lot of these problems start to fade a bit.

The 20th was announced as a sellout. I thought the other two were as well, but evidently not.

So that puts them at 100%, 96%, and 100% of capacity in those three games.

Imo, I think teams need to settle down on paying huge amounts for locals and look at exciting imports again. Should Adelaide spend a fortune on Humphries and MM, then get average imports? There's a few players I like watching, but highlights are not like years back. Priority is to win but also needs to provide entertainment. Who really would want to watch a lumbering centre, a PG who's not a PG, a shooter who can't shoot and and import that, well, god knows what he does. Throw in DJ who trips on his bottom lip most games and I'd rather watch paint dry.
Get 3 quality imports in, not washed up NBA guys, and have solid locals that don't break the bank. There was the big push to get back Aussies from overseas, only way to do that was to throw money at them.

"The NBL is too focussed on the NBL brand over team brands. I get it, but without the individuality it is getting so boring. Strong team brands will help the NBL long term"

Absolutely! Well said. Its just so generic now and the teams have taken a back seat in favour of the "NBL brand".

"Humans are visual creatures and if it looks ugly we're not going to be drawn to look at it."

Totally - the visual product looks awful. You know, most of these corporations that sponsor the league DO have reversed out versions or mono colour versions of their logo. You'd think they would want the product to look its best even with their logo plastered on there. But yeah I get that most companies wouldn't care either and just want their logo as huge as possible, in their colours, leaving virtually no team identity on the court. It's just a real put off for me and makes me not want to watch the game as much with such unpleasant looking courts.

I think some of it is coaches choices as well. I mean look at Phoenix. Why the hell are they running so much through Adnam and Le Afa? These guys are 7-8th men at best but they're getting more of the ball than Munford.

I am sorry to tell the league, coaches, and Liam Santamaria, but most teams in this league shouldn't go any deeper than 8 deep with the talent we have. I know we like to talk up our depth but half the league probably shouldn't be getting paid to play basketball.

Injuries have definitely hurt team depth as well. Adelaide was shortchanged without Humphries but they also made woeful import decisions. NOTE TO ALL NBL TEAMS - G LEAGUE JOURNEYMEN ARE NOT GUARANTEED STARS HERE. I think if anything, if a guy only plays G League and never cuts through anywhere else of note, that probably should be a black line through their name, especially if they're like Hannahs and their upsides uniquely fit the weaknesses of that league (no D, can hit open 3s but nothing else).

By the way, where is Hannahs? Gone home?

Having some individuality in team uniforms for example would be nice.

I'm not sold on the nbl all day every day agenda, fri, sat and Sunday worked for me.

Competing with afl will always be a challenge esp in Melbourne.

Let's not forget though numbers attending afl games are also way down.

Crazy thought but maybe money is getting tight for some people or they don't want to go and hang with thousands of people.

May have nothing to do with the league itself

KR said "The 20th was announced as a sellout. I thought the other two were as well, but evidently not. So that puts them at 100%, 96%, and 100% of capacity in those three games."
So you were wrong previously and now try to be right again. But you are still are wrong.

....what?

Season is pretty boring now because the Sydney Kings seem too good. Not sure which NBL team could beat them in a finals series.

Only thing stopping the Kings are injuries like previous seasons.

The comp really only got four good teams, Sydney, hawks, United and Perth, when they play each other you get good games, the rest sides have the odd quality players but just make up the numbers. The talent is not spread evenly giving a lot of crapy contests.

I don't think it’s that bad, just a mixture of covid affecting things and organic instability of a club or two and some unlucky injuries.

Adelaide, if they’re still willing to splash the cash, the problem is the centred on their own decision making.

Brisbane is a little bit money a little bit running things better.

Cairns is unfortunate with the Machado situation, and if we were to look at issues deeper than covid and organic instability - this is the club that gets it tough. Having a fair bit more money would go a long way as they’re the ones hit with the parity issue.

NZ will be fine once they’re not doomed to entire seasons away - biggest disadvantage in the history of NBL.

Add in a season that starts and finishes when the NBL actually wants it to, without too many delayed games or jam-packing in weekdays, and we might see something better next year.

No doubt there’s the new more transmissible variant right around the corner...…

"The talent is not spread evenly giving a lot of crapy contests."
Nothing has changed in 30 + years.

I don't think the last few Cats' games have been sell outs as they've been releasing the $20 tickets in the 1-2 days leading up to the game which is either a sign that it's a true sellout, or they can't sell the more expensive seats so have to open up the nose bleeds to get a bit more cash. It doesn't surprise me though, the prices have been hiked up immensely. I remember when my bronze level membership worked out to about $20 per game, if I want to buy those same seats now they are $60 and if I want to sit a couple row's closer in silver it'll set me back $100. No thanks, I'll watch at home, drink my own beer and eat my own snacks.

Last night's game between Perth and Melbourne shows there is still quality basketball to be had in the NBL this season, it just doesn't involve the bottom 5 teams in the league. The playoffs couldn't come soon enough.

Have actually really enjoyed reading all of these posts about the season being boring. I tend to agree, though I couldnt really put my finger on it as to why.

I first thought it was just because it feels like its dragged on too much. I only watch NBL, F1 and then a bit of NBA. The NBL this season has just been drawn out too much that I dont really feel as invested.

Case in point I have a free ticket waiting for me every Cats game, but ive found myself saying no and just throwing it on at home... though a big part of that is I cant stand the courtside MC screaming into the mic all game, last game I went to I remember him asking fans to get on their feet and they flat out ignored him and sat down...

That Perth court announcer seems very annoying. Why can't he just sit down and stop telling the red army what to do.

Melbourne United memberships have been frozen for the past 3 seasons due to covid, but I suspect it will rise in NBL23.

Wildcats announced a price freeze then reneged on it.

NBLTigers, could create a drinking game with how many times he does the "Lets go Wildcats Lets go" chant...

It's the most detached I've felt from an NBL season. In recent years, I could've named every player in the league. Now, I can look at a box score and not be able to remember which players are the imports. Hard to know how much of that is on the league, how much is COVID times, and how much is personal (busy, etc).

I suspect the personal aspect is most significant, but I do find it a lot easier to follow the NBA than the NBL - easier to get and parse boxscores (ESPN), easier to find quick highlights (r/NBA) and the stories of the moment. Rather than get to the NBL site, deal with that ticker up the top, deal with their scrolling DIVs to switch to the boxscore view, etc.

It's the most detached I've felt from an NBL season. In recent years, I could've named every player in the league.

Two years of late start hasn't helped, I’m a die hard basketball fan, though I’m not that much of nba fan, nbl and Europe leagues, I’ll be honest I’ve wavered a bit as well, still putting it ahead of other sports though. I just don’t think the standard is there, some of the imports have been horrendous, that certainly doesn’t help, most next stars are over hyped as well. Players like Delaney and others have regressed as well adding to not the spectacle it has been, obviously imo.

In some ways, LK's takeover has been a bad thing for engagement. Everything is run through NBL Media now. This place has dropped off, OzHoops died, Twitter activity is down. And The Foul is gone, Downtown Ball is gone, HoopDiary is gone. It doesn't have the community feel to it anymore. P&R is around and filling gaps here or there, but they're also behind a paywall and seem to do more on the college/international side of things than the NBL side.

Twitter and other social media suck and are destroying message boards. There was a time in NBL online fandom at its peak where there wasn't enough time in the day to read all of the posts on the various forums. I'd rather converse with real fans over an official mouthpiece account for a league or club.

Even the traditional media coverage isn't there anymore.

Once upon a time a journalist would coin a term like "Doomsday Double" or "Sunshine Swing" and by consensus it would spread into common usage because people approved of it.

Nowadays you have marketing departments of NBL Media and the clubs trying too hard with lame names like "Capital City Clash", "Hoops Capital" or "Throwdown XXXIII". Argh. It's way too corporate and coming out of one source. It feels so forced and fake.

Reading all these's comments I 100% agree. Now nearly all the nbl media comes the nbl. If not it’s just ESPN, Fox Sports and paywall coverage.

Nearly all the old Aussie basketball forums have disappeared. Not sure what happened, but everything is forced like you said Perthworld.

Today I had to pickup some basketball shorts from the Fiddes basketball factory in Thomastown. One of the workers use to own the Melbourne Tigers in the 1990’s. They all told me they are not into the nbl as much these’s days. I saw some classic jersey’s of the North Melbourne Giants, Victoria Titans and Melbourne Tigers.

Since LC has taken over the league, he wanted no past teams to join. It’s just a real shame all the old supporters of the nbl have been pushed away.

Still can’t get over why would the nbl not bring back Magic. I know Larry has done some great things for the league but stop slapping the past Victorian teams. South Dragons would of made more sense with their recent championship in 2009.

JackJumpers is still a joke of a name. There’s still ways they could of brought back Devils.

It's grim especially in SA. Who are the rookies you watched come up the ranks? How many drawcard imports has Adelaide had recently? No one says "You *have* to see this new guy we got."

Sixers have gone down hill. Haven't even been close making the top-4 all this season. Ownership need a hard look at themselves. The old Sixers are no more.

Hopefully this thread gets the eyeballs of people like Guy Neville, Heath O'Loughlin, Luke Sicari.

It's the old business principle of putting the bulk of your efforts into keeping current customers happy and coming back with hands in pockets. Always nice to go fishing and win new clients, but you should be looking after those who have been happily giving you money for years.

Two games today and not a comment. Says it all really.

Not very exciting matchups to be fair.

As the resident United fan, I'll say today proves the point I was making previously

Saints played today, in a crucial game, no chance I was watching United beat an undermanned Cairns

But with Hawthorn, St Kilda, Essendon and Carlton playing today- and all teams having started the season well (except Essendon), that would've taken up the attention of most Melbourne sports fans. Plus F1 for those who like motor sport.

Lots of competition once you get into Autumn, it's just unfortunate for the NBL that covid caused this timing issue.

I had nothing else to watch this afternoon yet still turned NBL off as the games are boring since there is a distinct lack of quality this season. NBL22 - please make it stop.

Not very exciting match ups to be fair.

That's the problem, season been very disappointing.

The problem is the bottom teams have had star players miss most of the season

Cairns - Machado

Adelaide - Humphries

Brisbane- Sobey

When you're already competing against higher budget opponents, losing players like that changes the balance. It means these teams are barely competitive against the good teams much of the time

Plus NZ with a range of injuries and issues (Abercrombie notable) plus the usual lack of home games

Just looked it up, Machado has played 18 games which surprised me

But hasn't been himself and they've had other injuries too

And of course another distinctive factor is those teams having new or unproven coaches- Forde (2nd year), CJ, Duncan (Rookies), Shamir (3rd year but unproven really)

Pretty simple really:

Low budgets (which means less to spend on rosters plus coaching staff) (maybe not as much NZ)

and


Injuries to stars

and

Rookie coaches

= Barely competitive and less interesting for fans

Shamir would be on big coin.

I often watch most games (or at least chunks of them) but last weekend its dead games with very one sided prospects. Agree that injuries are a big factor and I also think some average coaching. I wonder would Goorjian with the Breakers roster been at the bottom of the ladder.

Having a 5th place finals spot could have made these last few rounds a bit more interesting with a bunch of teams outside of the top 4 playing for something.

Feels like the league has gone on too long this year and I dont care or watch AFL its just too many teams with no chance to get in the 4 so its mostly pointless games.

Would like to see more rules next year to introduce more scoring and free flow play and penalise very aggressive defence against the superstar scorers of the league.

With so many of our top Australians playing in NBA , Japan or Europe we maybe need to go to 4 import slots. The quality of the games is more important than holding slots for Aussies who struggle to score or play well. (we have heaps of these guys in the league)

Zimmerman as well for Cairns. He's up and down but also the leading rebounder in the comp and with the shallow bench that the Taipans have every starter that misses time is a big blow.

"Would like to see more rules next year to introduce more scoring and free flow play and penalise very aggressive defence against the superstar scorers of the league."


This was in place for a number of years leading up to COVID with tighter refereeing and scoring was very high.

Last year and first 2/3 of this season it went downhill with too much grabbing, holding, checking etc, but the refereeing has been changed in the back half of this season and scoring has gone back up to where it was pre-COVID.

Hopefully that continues next season.

Zimmerman hasn't been good, Sixers imports below average, SEM imports imo been very hot and cold, nz the same, Siva a huge disappointment, he played at Berlin and in euro league, they never would be home, yes nz not home is a disadvantage but that team still should be finals. Brisbane has one of the worst imports I’ve ever seen in Moss, Perth third import has been average, Law been selfish, Sydney got it right and United as well with one import.

To many rose coloured glasses on imports that have been below average and cost lots more than Australian players and you want to up it to four, give me a break.

The reality is that it's been tough to get imports the past 2 years. Especially earlier this season when 10 day NBA contracts were going crazy. Add to that the logistical issues with getting guys into the country for a large part of the season and I think that's really why people have sat on their hands and why some of the imports have whiffed too. Assuming no escalation of the pandemic again, I imagine next season we'll see things trend back to normal re: imports.

"To many rose coloured glasses on imports that have been below average and cost lots more than Australian players and you want to up it to four, give me a break."

Dunkman, the problem is you have the best Australians playing on 2-3 teams and then its crickets. (Melbourne, Sydney mostly)

Lets look at the cats - with a fourth import they could have brought in a backup point guard instead of White and Zunic who have generally been terrible with Norton gone. In a 4 import system maybe a Dusty Hannas does fine to come and play a role off the bench for a bit of offense.


Would be great to have Landale, Kay, Giddey and other players playing here but they wont. You will get ex-NBA coming back when their old and injury prone. Even 2nd tier players like Angus Brandt and Craig Moller are overseas so the NBL cannot pay enough to keep these guys here who cant make the NBA. As the NBL now has so much eyes on it we are seeing players getting into Europe or Asia as well.

So lets focus on our local teams being entertaining and successful. One extra hungry G-League player wanting to succeed here is a win-win for entertainment factor.

Even 2nd tier players like Angus Brandt and Craig Moller are overseas so the NBL cannot pay enough to keep these guys here who cant make the NBA. As the NBL now has so much eyes on it we are seeing players getting into Europe or Asia as well.

Brandt and moller are better than second tier, you don't get gigs in Europe like Brandt did and moller now if you can’t play. Both would have been valuable contributions to most sides this season. I reckon moller at the three, four, would have helped Perth defensively this season and bring in a team first approach.
I’ve watched Sam Short play a fair bit, quality player hidden at the back at United bench as a DP, now at nz as injury replacement, not certain if still there, plays good D can play one or two guard , he’s a quite humble guy that’s better than a few imports this year, Naar is another, there are others, they don’t beat there chests, play team first and don’t get a look in. How’d Hannas and Moss turn out. Basketball recruiting in Australia is poor, it’s why guys leave for afl. WMW was going great when Siva was out early, got moved aside for Siva on return, struggled a bit then but Siva hasn’t been consistent or that good.
Finally if clubs bring in imports, the game does need them, don’t dish up the quality of a lot this season.

Many teams don't even use 3 imports like Adelaide (2), Melbourne (1) and S.E. Melbourne (2).

Only teams to use their 3 import spots were Brisbane, Cairns, Illawarra, New Zealand, Perth, Sydney and Tasmania. If the league went with 4 imports some teams may use all their import spots for depth. I think it wouldn’t change much to the nbl. Either way it doesn’t matter because we already had Asian player rule and next stars.

Has anyone considered that watching teams heavily sucked with players of African descent has less appeal for an Anglo-Australian audience than watching players of their own race compete?

Unlike the 90's when basketball was actually popular in Australia, teams these days field an all Black on court lineup or close to it (4/5). Might as well be watching teams based in Africa..

And you can deny all this, but you'll be denying reality, not racism.

*stacked

The reality that a lot of Australians are racist maybe

Has anyone considered that watching teams heavily sucked with players of African descent has less appeal for an Anglo-Australian audience than watching players of their own race compete?

"Has anyone considered that watching teams heavily sucked with players of African descent has less appeal for an Anglo-Australian audience than watching players of their own race compete?"

Uh, no. Says a lot about what goes on in your head however.

Reality, not sure what rubbish you're on about. You sound like a clown from nazi Germany. Your comments aren’t welcome here. :@

Finally in April we get dumbest comments of the year. Spectators won't watch Black athletes because they'd prefer watching their own race compete. Even the biggest rednecks watch Black athletes, might not invite them home to tea because they're racist, but will still cheer them on.
Donald Sterling, an absolute repulsive man owned the Clippers before having to sell because of his racist comments. "Reality" shows his own ignorance. Reason basketball became popular in the 90s was due to a guy called Michael Jordan, and the imports, mainly black, were treated as superstars here.
I'd really love to see you at a local game trying to explain your theory.

activity is way down since usernames put an end to all the shitposting.

Posters like this idiot are exactly why I'm glad anonymous posts are gone. I'll give everything "Reality" posts going forward exactly the level of attention/respect it deserves.

There's a difference between shitposting and shit posting.

Wow. I have seen some posts on here, but that one takes the biscuit. Well done "Reality", that is by far and away the worst post I have ever seen. Top to bottom, every word is total BS. Congrats.

Here's a half-baked theory that just occurred to me as a possible contributing factor - Australian men's basketball fandom in general is in a bit of a slump. Boomers result was great high, but since then: Ingles got injured, Giddey got injured, Simmons stayed Simmonsed, Baynes has been out, Mills' team has had struggles, Green gets overlooked, Delly dropped out of the NBA and hasn't dazzled in the NBL. Landale didn't put down roots. Anyone in Europe is largely out of the eyes of general fans.

I'd say in assessing all this, it's probably a good idea to find a way to view the topic outside of the Hoops.com.au lens where there is the confounding factor of forum posting changes, or the idea of the decline of forums at the hands of social media.

I don't follow a huge number of people, but I don't see as much NBA talk on Twitter, despite it being (for non-Australians) a really entertaining and wide-open season. If I overlook the NBL and team accounts, I barely see anyone regularly posting about the NBL.

I follow the NBA mostly via r/NBA and it's very active regardless of COVID, regardless of the rise of social media, etc.

r/NBL is a ghost town which is a shame.

There's a reason the NBL moved to summer. Overall interest drops once the footy seasons start. It's not rocket surgery.

From a MSM point of view, nobody is talking about the NBL. With so much news devoted to Covid, and now we are well into the AFL and NRL seasons, the NBL is a clear afterthought, and has become sort of an annoying minor sport that has to get some token mentions occasionally. Its just not talked about with any great analysis. We get a very brief match report and that's about it.

Only way to follow the NBL is if your a fan of the league and WANT to find out whats happening. And the only way to find out is by following the NBL or team pages on social media. Because nobody is covering this league with much interest. And really, these pages aren't exactly going be critical either. Just awesome puff pieces (yawn)

Its so much easier following the NBA. There is so much content, analysis, stories, stats, history, critisism, everything you want its there for you. To follow the NBL in the same way, you have to be a detective just to find SOME interesting content.

The news that the NBL publishes is quite frankly boring, and nothing more than puff pieces. That would be OK if it came from a news site, or sports page, but when its from the league itself, it just makes it so meh to care about.

Maybe it's my age as well (40), and I've no doubt lost enthusiasm for the sport as a whole (I was a fanatic in the 90's and a big fan up until recent years) but I definitely think that if there were major improvements made, especially to the visual aspect, my interest could pick up again slightly.

"teams these days field an all Black on court lineup or close to it (4/5). Might as well be watching teams based in Africa.."

You clearly weren't watching the 36ers in the mid 80s, when Green, Davis, Jones and Nelson were on the court together. Certainly didn’t stop us packing out the plac and making it rock. Cheers mpletely the opposite. We loved watching those guys! And Bruton Loggins, Morse on the court for the Bullets, packing out Boondall. Quite a few more examples of teams loaded with 3/4 black players in the 30 years since then. A few during the golden years of packed houses in the 1990s etc. All of whom drew plenty of us anglos to watch them play top basketball.

Players’ racial heritages and skin colours have nothing to do with this year’s low NBL crowds and the general lack of enthusiasm. Your post tells us a lot about you and nothing about the state of the NBL.

We are in interesting times

Personal admission- I haven't been to a sports game since 2019

As far as I remember, the last game I went to was the Aus vs USA at Marvel in August 2019. (Unfortunately the Thursday night, not the Saturday arvo!). Perhaps I went to cricket or NBL that summer but if I did, maybe once or twice max

Back in the day, for probably a decade I went to almost every Tigers home game, plus a few footy games every year, plus a couple of cricket. Slowly declined but was still regularly attending all 3 sports until 2019, at least once or twice each season for each sport

Most of my changed attendance in recent years is around changing family circumstances, which many of you will appreciate

But if I'm honest, there's also a part which is just that covid has broken lifelong habits. It's broken that expectation that "oh here's the basketball season, I'll have to get to some games, which ones would be good?"

Kayo on the couch is so easy

Having said that, I'm feeling like I do wanna experience a live atmosphere again. It's been too long. I'm looking forward to going soon. The NBL playoffs is calling my name

But, I do wonder if live sport will ever recover to it's former glory. Or has covid permanently reduced crowds?

Meanwhile ...

The Perth Wildcats are proud to announce we've set a brand new membership record!
For the first time, the club has reached 12,000 members

I haven't been to a game since December, and looking at the NBL1 schedule Saturday night is the only one I can even possibly get to the rest of the season.

Still paid the full membership price, though.

Not only a record 12K members reached but it was achieved during the height of the pandemic here in Perth.

WC95, Boti was someone that wrote not-always-puff pieces and is now operating off his own steam. Other writers are largely paid by the NBL and thus putting out pretty tame stuff. Some other stuff is tied up in video (which I don't really watch in this context) and podcasts (opaque to non-listeners).

Years back, there was And The Foul and similar all pushing out various things. Is there a new generation of that or are they all gone?

People posting about it on Twitter get zero engagement.

I'm guessing LK's strategy was to bring some media in-house so they had a bit of reliable coverage at least, but if it's all puff pieces, maybe that backfires.

https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/41842-ozhoops-boards-re-open/

The good old days? I used to enjoy Ozhoops, too, but it just became too negative and personal for my liking.

Cheers to Isaac for keeping this site running and generally positive in tone.

My attendance at sports has changed massively since covid too, but for me its just coincidence as that is the exact time I became a parent. Over the last two years, despite having memberships to 5 clubs I've been lucky to get to a game or two per year for each. Just starting to change now with my kid just old enough to appreciate it a little.

Lots of clubs in plenty of leagues are breaking membership records (Saints in AFL every year at the moment, and the Wildcats as above) so I think for the most part this will only be a blip as far as people's willingness to go to live events (though clearly the biggest blip in history).

The biggest issue for the NBL is, with a lower base to start from and the idea that they were building momentum, whether that blip hurts them more than more established leagues.

For the record I think they'll be fine once they can start and finish earlier next season.

"The good old days? I used to enjoy Ozhoops, too, but it just became too negative and personal for my liking."

I spent far too much of my younger years in ridiculous arguments on that board.

Hard to answer a few of these theories without slightly serious polling involving ages. It's possible that forum users are generally an older set - kids, work, differing priorities. Who knows where the next generation community is. Some of the social media options (TikTok?) don't strike me as being great for conversation.

It's all an interesting conversation though, wondering whether the sentiment here indicates a realistic threat to the league itself.

All Aussie sports I follow are struggling with reduced crowds

3-4 years ago the biggest crowds in summer were at Big Bash Cricket games
now they have dropped dramatically.

(Go 20 years back and we remember One Day Cricket selling out .. now times have changed)

AFL also not getting the attendances pre COVID. A League maybe didn't have the crowds to start with,


A key figure for me re popularity of the league would be the TV ratings.
ie are more basketball fans staying away from games but still watching at home.
Have not heard much from NBL HQ re ratings. Usually means they are not great for if they were it would be shouted from the rooftops.

Biggest issue for me was the scheduling on the go. December / January usually prime viewing time during holidays was crippled with Covid cancellations. Not NBL's fault.

We are also at that tricky time of the season when many teams are out of the running so those fans are tuning out whilst those in contention are hanging out for finals. Top 4 looked sorted a while back.

Shortly we will be in finals, the best teams, hopefully some great games and with it better mainstream media coverage. A chance to finish strong.


Positive story of the season - Tasmania Jack Jumpers .. outstanding on and off the field exceeding almost all expectations. Just hoping it is sustainable.


Next year an earlier season, games played when originally scheduled, Breakers at home, easier import arrangements, consistent TV deal ... hopefully this will allow the league and clubs to look where they can thrive, not just how they survive.

Oh and some NBA / NBL crossover games ... that will generate wider interest leading into 2022/23.

On thing I would suggest is restructure the playoffs to this

Season finishes on a Sunday

Wednesday - Play In Game - 4th v 5th

Friday Night - Semi Final Best of 3 starts
1st v Play In Winner
2nd v 3rd

From here playoffs continue as per normal

Two semi final winners meet in championship series.


Reasons
- 1 extra mid week game does not extend the season
5 out of 10 teams in playoffs is still reasonable
More teams in contention this point of season
Makes every spot within top 5 mean more
1st - Gets play in winner coming off short break
2nd - Gets 3rd game if needed v 3rd
3rd - Avoids play in game
4th - Hosts play in game
5th - Makes playoffs

Imagine right now if Tasmania and SE Melbourne were locked in battle for that last spot.

Someone needs to hand Reality a dunce hat. I don't think any normal person cares about what race the players are and basketball has never been more played or watched than it is right now.

As for the mainstream media, it's an interesting dilemma. The NBL signed a deal with Newscorp that was meant to see an increase in exposure, and has led to the once-per-couple-of-days article from Matt Logue in the Advertizer. But outside of that it's been a bit dry.

But can we really blame the media for not getting behind the league? It's not been that great of late. It needs a shake up. It needs points of interest. It needs a reason for non-NBL fans to care. LaMelo Ball actually had a much bigger impact on the league than people realize. Non-NBL fans still walk around in his Illawarra jersey - and that's in ADELAIDE. I am not seeing that from any of the new Next Stars. Or from McCarron. Or from the apparent lord and saviour Bryce Cotton.

So why do we watch the NBL? Is it just because it exists and is Australian or is there more to it?

For me it's about the constant development of top Australian players, and seeing how they fare against imports that are knocking on the NBA door, and what they might mean in relation to the Boomers and their talent pool.

So when you have a season without a Josh Giddey, without any big next stars, where the ceiling of the best kid isn't that high, and where the air-apparent Australian star is a well-and-truly past prime Dellavedova, you have a season I struggle to be interested in. Add that the a game where the standard of play has unquestionably dropped you have a league that is quick losing my passionate interest.

The TV Ratings as a guide theory is debunked when you realise just how few people are counted. They mean nothing in reality apart from advertising dollars.

So...everything?

After writing my last post I checked AFL crowds and was pleasantly surprised they haven't dropped quite as much as I thought

AFL is a good gauge because of the consistency of the fixture- 9 games a week, starting at roughly the same time of year, with roughly the same 18 teams for 11 years now. I think NBL we need to wait longer term- given the changed dates of the season and competition with bigger sports

Average crowds after round 4

2017 - 36,617
2018- 38,674
2019- 38,321
2022- 32,404

Most of this drop might be due to general covid hesitation- not wanting to be in large crowds because of ensuing illness and isolation

roughly* the same 18 teams, typo there, I meant, the same 18 teams

The Australian released an article that apparently - as I couldn't actually read the article itself - states that the NBL as a governing body has allegedly turned a profit for the first time in its history.

I can just hear Boti Nagy pipe up with some lost fact on that one.

From what I could glean from the Aussie Hoopla paraphrasing, the TV rights deal has led to this, and as of next season the teams are expected to negotiate for a bigger sliced of the pie. Kestleman has his eyes firmly on Canberra and a renovation of their current convention center as a site for a new team.

Kestleman also says that he is looking for other investors overseas, which we already knew.

No talk that I am aware of on TV ratings, which as has been said here already, probably isn't a fantastic sign.

There was also the usual tired and boresome "second best league in the world" rhetoric.

Either way it is promising to see Larry still trying to make moves for the league, even if this season has been a bit of a snorefest. I'd probably caution against rushing extra teams through unless we can increase import quotas and salaries because the standard of play has taken a knock this year.


http://aussiehoopla.com/larry-kestleman-says-he-wants-more-nbl-and-canberra-sydney-and-melbourne-make-sense/?fbclid=IwAR0DiGYVKvUYKFkiqiPMH8ACBhxUfzqWqrTX0yEL-uKf4EGLxXCZaawnhak

Crowds haven't been that good in the nbl. Still heaps of empty seats where I sit. It’s just the diehard nbl supporters I usually see at the games. Occasionally there’s the one to two new fans going to their first nbl game, but not as big as it use to be.

NBL isn’t worth 400m, Larry is kidding himself with that fact.

I don't think this season's attendance numbers are particularly meaningful.
There are fair reasons for them to be lower that hopefully won't apply next season.
$400M is pretty funny though.

I read with concern that the NBL is looking at Canberra team return. With a diluted pool of Australian talent this would not lead to better quality games I don't think

The noticeable dip in talent this year was noticeable in all teams other than the top 3.