Hello Gold Coast Rollers/Blaze!

Nah this is good for the NBL with the $45M TV contract over the next three years now is the time to expand to garner more interest in the next TV deal.

If these young Aussies were better than the Kiwi's they would be in the league.

All new teams will do is dilute the talent pool and force expansion teams to overpay mediocre players.

League commissioner Jeremy Loeliger confirmed investors from NSW, the ACT, Queensland, Northern Territory and Victoria have contacted him with expansion expressions of interest.

For me- if we are talking expansion, a prudent expansion too with high growth, good corporate exposure and community support, for me there are really only 2 options

- QLD need something. Highest growth state in Australia, the nrl has expanded here for a second team- I think a team based Sunshine Coast, or West Brisbane could work. Both options need a new stadium

- Newcastle could work again- if done well. Again, a new 10,000 stadium is required.

Yes Wellington have a well supported franchise in the Saints who are a powerhouse in the NZNBL, too bad their owner isn't interested in paying a ton for an NBL license.
TSB Arena in Wellington seats about 5,500 and Wellington's population is about 212,000.

Christchurch struggles to maintain an NZNBL team so not sure who's going to fund an NBL franchise down there.
Christchurch Arena seats 7,200 and Christchurch's population is about 381,500.

I made my points and opinion about varying factors in the other thread.

I do think 12 teams would be the perfect amount - especially if they can draw back in Kay, Fotu, Webster brothers to avoid the dilution problem. I do agree that we don't want to be diluting and overpaying average players (Aussies). 12 provides a nice variety.

Have a second NZ team please! IMO, regional QLD/NSW aren’t ideal - I don’t see what would change to make them properly supported this time around?

People are less institution and tradition driven these days - Cairns are lucky to be so ingrained and well supported tbh.

I am not sure how commercially viable it is but I've always liked the idea of welcoming the Northern Territory to the NBL. It's a place that is overlooked and forgotten by literally everyone in every area of Australian life and yet, if we put a team there, I am very sure they'd have passionate support. The questions might be around sponsorship dollars but if the government could chip in, maybe they'd get something off the ground.

Not really a fan of going back to places that have already fallen off the radar unless there is a sound reason as to why it absolutely wont happen again. Townsville became a bit of a laughing stock and fans stopped turning up. Same basically happened with the Gold Coast. My question to those teams is what makes this time different?

Talentise I don't think you can expand without relaxing import quotas even further. Pretty soon you'll have a league where Jarrod Kenny is a starting point guard, and we don't really want that.

As for New Zealand, I am all for a team in Wellington or Christchurch. New Zealand has always turned up and supported their teams and there is well and truly enough kiwi talent to support it.

"Sunshine Coast has no stadium." Being from the Sunshine Coast, I like this idea.

Currently, USC (Uni of Sunshine Coast) has the best facility. Ripcity use it for NBL 1 and the Lightning for national netball league games. Holds 3000+(?). Probably just about big enough to accommodate our fans, do many NBL fans travel interstate with/for their teams?

If LK saw value in funding necessary expansion of the USC court, maybe. [With little possibility of commercial and or residential opportunities (at a university) I don't see it.]

However, we will have a world-class court for the 2032 Olympics [Basketball to be featured here]. Maybe by then.

"The experts on here are stunned there is no second Perth team on this list."

Touché!

All this talk of a 2nd team from New Zealand is fanciful. Has anyone stopped to consider (or understand) the rules around a team from one FIBA nation playing in a competition from another FIBA nation. You can't just set up a team and go play in another country, you have to get sign-off from the national body of that country, just like the Breakers had to do when they entered the NBL all those years ago. No sign-off by the national body, no entry. FIBA won't allow it.

You might recall Mt Gambier wasn't permitted entry into the NZ NBL a couple of years ago when BA (aka Larry?) said no. BA said they would only allow one team, which were the Huskies at the time, and therefore Mt Gambier were told they couldn't go. Why would Basketball NZ act any differently in return?

Plus, Kiwis who are good enough can already play in the NBL unrestricted for any team. Why pay for another team when your players already have open access to play in the NBL?

As much as you keep calling for Wellington and Christchurch to raid their piggy banks, build new stadiums and find owners/sponsors with loads of cash to burn, you'll find it's a wasted discussion as Larry and the NBL have no control in that part of the world.

BBNZ sees the value in having a NZ team in the NBL, it has done wonders for the national program since the Breakers inception.
I honestly don't see them being a hurdle, it’s the funding. Finding a bunch of investors with financial stability and then sponsors that aren’t already tapped out in an already difficult financial landscape especially with the sacrifices the Breakers have had to make during this pandemic will be the difficult task.
Getting players to relocate from Auckland to Christchurch is akin to leaving Sydney or Melbourne for Tasmania, cool if it’s an opportunity but if you’re already successful then it’s a big ask unless they’re paying over the going rate.

Could a team play games 7O/30 in gold coast stadium and USC stadium maroochydore? The latter fits 3000 or any number of the new stadiums being built for the olympics.

They need to wait 3-5 years before expanding further.

Let SEM & Tassie consolidate. Continue growing the league and the product.

We've been down this road before, let's be 110% sure we're getting it right and don't rush into anything.

I am 100% behind expansion (providing the teams will be viable)

But... How about putting a lot more emphasis on expanding the Brisbane model?

What does Nissan Arena hold? Maybe 4,000? Rarely, if ever sells out.

For the 3rd largest city in Australia and considering in the early 90's the Bullets use to host between 11,000 to 13,000 fans, the current interest there is very poor.

Time to step up Bullets owners and NBL

"BBNZ sees the value in having a NZ team in the NBL, it has done wonders for the national program since the Breakers inception."

Exaclty ... point is what's in it for them to have a 2nd team? Basketball is booming in NZ without needing another team in the NBL, and Kiwis can already play in 10 NBL teams (not just one) without restriction, which is supporting their national program perfectly.

Let the Gold Coast come up with the millions needed to churn through another NBL team!

Interesting that there's interest from the ACT. What would they do for a stadium? There's apparently infrastructure problems at the Palace that will prevent it from re-opening once it stops being used as a vaccination hub, and the Convention Centre only holds 2,500 for basketball from memory.

I don't think another NZ team would work. BA has no no control over any International teams like New Zealand and Singapore. It’s up to FIBA to sign the deal off. It wasn’t mentioned on the news article.

The league needs to just focus on the 11th NBL franchise. Any cities who have stadiums ready like Gold Coast, Townsville and Sydney.

Personally they need to bring back a second team in Sydney. Sydney derby like what Melbourne is showing with the throwdown could work.

Queenslanders barely support the Bullets, so having a team in the Gold Coast so close to Brisbane wouldn’t make any sense.

Canberra and Newcastle needs renovations to both of their stadiums. I say have them both ready after the 11th NBL franchise.

My plan would be have the West Sydney Razorbacks playing at Qudos Bank Arena with the Kings. Then add Canberra and Newcastle when their stadiums are ready. It gives enough time to see if there’s enough local interest in those’s two cites. If not then consider a team in Darwin or Geelong. Surprise Perth and Adelaide aren’t in the discussions. West Adelaide Bearcats would be cool if they had their team back.

Qudos is a pain in the ass location.

Not great for after work bball for cbd people - really not easy to access, I remember having to take a crap train then Uber it to properly make it to the stadium in reasonable time after work.

Not sure it's in much of a suburban spot either?

In general it's hard driving around Sydney with that Bay. Unless West Sydney could train at the State Sports Stadium but if it’s used by the Kings then it looks like West Sydney won’t have a team unless they build a new stadium in proper West Sydney which would fit 5,000-8,000.

Singapore is not a big basketball city and a new team would have to compete with the Slingers who play in the more suited ASEAN League now.

There was some interest a few years back from Chinese investors about basing a team on the Gold Coast that might work but GC is a graveyard for pro-sports teams. If the AFL weren't still propping up the Suns they would've already gone under.

I love the Darwin idea, is there any chance that LK could get land and build something akin to what he did in Tasmania where it has an income source that doesn't rely on basketball ?

If that is a possibility and the Territory government pledge to finance it then I'd love to see a team up there and build it as being representative of all of the Territory including Katherine and Alice Springs.

As for needing investors etc, surely we are going to see more ex NBA players wanting to buy teams but with Perth being sold to SEN that theory could be easily shot down.

NBL really needs to benefit from the money, infrastructure and resources going into the Olympics as they are here in 10 1/2 years.

I've stated previously that I'd love Newcastle, North West Victoria (use the Giants teal) and Canberra back in but we certainly need to consider the growth of Western Sydney too.

I'm glad the decisions aren't being made by myself as I'd accept everyone in.

For those that say we are diluting talent too much Emmett Naar is a quality player with a great temperament that should have a fine NBL career but he will be lucky to see the court this season with this stacked Hawks roster and he'd be the kind of player that deserves more opportunity to show what he can do.

I think Tasmania had the perfect alignment of interests for LK - a stadium to work with that just needed upgrades, good surrounding area he could develop, a base that has shown decent basketball support with their NBL1 side, a state itching for sport and continually pushing for an AFL side, strong government support with lots of $$$ funding thrown in to make sure this thing grows instead of falling over within 5 years. Good basketball decision for the NBL and a good commercial decision for LKs other businesses.

Not sure NT ticks any of those boxes to be perfectly honest. Only box it ticks is being a market without a team, but there are lots of those....

I guess regional QLD could benefit infra wise from an Olympics - maybe that translates to the possibility of another team. 5-10 years is a long time - things change, but right now I don't see QLD, NT, Canberra, Newcastle as good options

If expansion is truly on the cards then the Special Restricted Player rule needs to be looked at again. Maybe Asian Countries + Commonwealth Countries?? But only decent players would come from Canada and maybe even Nigeria?? Have 3 imports, either one Next Star and SRP, or 2 SRP. Of course that's up to each teams budgets.

1. Never ever put a team on the Gold Coast. Guaranteed money pit.

2. For expansion teams you must give them concessions on players in the first 2 years so they are competitive. The JackJumpers program has been brilliantly done in every aspect except the team they have put on the floor. Mostly bench and role players having to masquerade as starters. Going to lose crowds and sponsors because they won't be winning at a reasonable percentage and are playing a terrible brand of basketball. Effort is fantastic but cannot score. The expansion team needs to get the 2 best next stars and be allowed to pay an extra 25% on top of the salary cap so they can attract players. Build team and culture ready for 3rd year flying solo.

I love the idea of giving Commonwealth countries like Canada, Nigeria, and British players to have a spot on our NBL rosters. Like the Special Restricted Player rule with Asia. Should be the Commonwealth Player Rule.

It's only a good idea if the NBL was going to expand to two more teams. The only issue now is that the NBL need to figure out which cities can manage an NBL team without merging or folding like the past when the NBL rushed expansion during the early 2000’s.

VT

Commonwealth country status?

The Commonwealth is an anachronism. Look at the standard of the Commonwealth Games compared to Olympics, or World Championships in different sports (apart from netball).

Looking t the Asian region is looking to Australia's regional future. Looking to the Commonwealth is looking back to the nineteenth century British Empire.

"Look at the standard of the Commonwealth Games compared to Olympics, or World Championships in different sports (apart from netball)."

That is a very unfair comparison. What else in the sporting world compares with Olympics and WC's (in all sports).

Compare Comm Games with regional tournies (Asian cup, Africa, Central Americas) and the balance is much closer, as it should be.

Also noticed this. "Looking to the Commonwealth is looking back to the nineteenth century British Empire."

...and the Olympics are over 2000yrs old. Even the modern O's are from the late 1800's.

People on the Gold Coast just don't go to sport. That’s been proven across multiple codes. That would be a bust.

I'm not pro any special restricted spots, but Commonwealth is by far the worst idea.

If we're going to give any, Asia makes by far the most sense in terms of increasing potential viewers.

Agreed, Cram. Logistically & geographically, too. Add the possibility of looking at "teams" (not just SRP's)(eg. Singapore Slingers)in the NBL.

Victoria Titans: "I love the idea of giving Commonwealth countries like Canada, Nigeria, and British players to have a spot on our NBL rosters. Like the Special Restricted Player rule with Asia. Should be the Commonwealth Player Rule."

The danger I see is that several NBA players have Nigerian or Canadian eligibility so players like Ebi Ere, Cam Oliver, Agada and others (?) could have played here (NBL) as an SRP, not an import. Now, I can see that would have an impact on locals getting a go.
3 x imports
1 x SRP (Asian)
1 x CPR (Commonwealth-ian)
1 x NS
who could all be starters and 6th man,
and
6 x locals (7th to 12th man, off the bench)

This can even have an effect on our legit NBL locals.
For instance, if you have to pick between Humphries and Cam Oliver (as a CPR) for about the same price, chance is, you may pick Oliver.

What happens to Humphries, then?
He tries other NBL clubs and faces similar story. 3 of our 4 current (Asian) SRPs are starting quality. ​
He leaves the NBL and goes to anywhere as an import.
He accepts a 7th or lower-man role in the NBL. Ok, Hump​h would make 6th man, but you get my meaning, I hope.

NB. This is not about Humphries and Oliver. Both play the C, both awesome yadda yadda. Just an example that came to mind!

"(eg. Singapore Slingers)in the NBL."
I meant, "(eg. like Singapore Slingers but not them) in the NBL."

RobT

Asia is our region, and has a bright future in, well, everything. The Commonwealth is our past. That's the point.

So the new expansion team should only wear sandals when they play and will go undefeated is what I am hearing.

There isn't enough Australian talent to facilitate expansion right now, if we keep all import rules the same.

I see there's a small list of players who are NBL level listed. You can add Taran Armstrong to that mix. But the chances of having most of those guys available and willing? Zero.

The team in Tasmania didn't exactly unearth a bunch of burgeoming players who were just chomping at the bid for stardom. They just repurposed role players. And while I respect the fight they put up game in, game out, they're probably the canary in the coalmine of the Australian NBL talent situation.

Expansion is going to have to mean the relaxing of import rules. I think a balance can be found between ensuring Australian jobs and getting the best possible talent and spectacle we can in the league. But if bringing in a top Asian or Commonwealth player means some bottom-feeding Australian player with no Boomers, NBA, Euroleague or NBL star-level future doesn't get a chance to float around for a few years, then so be it.

A better league is better for Australian talent. If that means a young Brendan Teys or Graeme Dann doesn't get their chance to worm their way into our hearts, then that's just how the cookie crumbles. The better players will always make a spot here. There is no world where Isaac Humphries doesn't get a job in the NBL. There are a lot of NBL Aussies who've been underperforming for a long time who need a little employment pressure to step to the plate anyway - Harry Frolling anyone?

On the business side of things I trust NBL ownership to make the right decisions on expansion, where to expand, and why. But I am hopeful they do keep the talent situation in mind.

What do you consider "right now"?

I don't think we will see expansion clubs announced one year, entering the next anymore. I think it would be a multi year process to get it really right. That rules out the next 2 years IMO.

I don’t see any expansion happening in the next 3 years for example - I think we will see a 12 team league in around the next 5/6 years perhaps.

"Tassie need another team. The one in Hobart is shit."

Don't agree but funny as...!

Isn't that like not having a cinema in town cos there are no actors of note from Geelong?

According to Logue, he believes a second team in Sydney would be the wise move having looked at the success of the local rivalry now between the Phoenix and Melbourne United.

"I think a second Sydney team would be great," Logue said.

“At the moment there's a rule until 2024 that there can’t be another team because the Kings have a lock out that they’re the only team (in the city).

“It’s important that the Kings need to get back where they were winning championships before a second Sydney team is included.

“But, it’s proven, look what the AFL has done with the Swans and Giants.

“Western Sydney is a huge growth area, so I think a second Sydney team would work.

“For mine, I think it’s Sydney.”

I know, but by 2024. Heaps of time to refurbish Western Sydney indoors stadium.

They better bring back the West Sydney Razorbacks. I'm sick of these’s lame names the NBL keep coming up with. The Razorbacks were so close winning a NBL championships in the early 2000’s. They deserve to be back in the NBL. It would make sense because they use to be rivals with the Sydney Kings.

I think more teams and more storylines in the NBL would be a great thing. But I think we're just assuming that if we plant another team in Sydney, it will just happen, and people will just start caring.

Rivalries are usually organic and have to come from the regions that they're set in. Are there two areas in Sydney that traditionally dislike eachother? I don't know. If there is, then you have something there. If there isn't, you're trying to create something our of thin air a bit.

Then again the SEM v Melbourne thing has become a rivalry and has been more or less spoken into existence, so there's that. But I don't think a rivalry automatically happens by just sitting another team nearby. And I don't think the rationale of expansion should be based on that as the chief driver.

New Zealand won't get another team till the Breakers can start being successful again.

Looks like there will be another Sydney team by 2024. My bet is between that time we may have an 11th team in Canberra, Newcastle or Gold Coast. Canberra truely deserve their team back but they need to fix up AIS Arena. It’s a good stadium but they need to fix the air conditioning and more!

I know Townsville have a great stadium but would the locals support their team when Cairns is the most dominant team in North Queensland. Townsville went down hill when that mine closed down.

Gold Coast Convention Centre is a great stadium but it’s too dear for the locals to afford it. Many Gold Coast people won’t have enough. Look at Gold Coast United and the Blaze/Rollers who went broke. If there’s money it will work, but it’s up to the locals.

Brisbane v Gold Coast games would be a great rivalry.

History has shown that teams from the Gold Coast don't succeed. Unless there is a firm reason to think this time is different, I think they should leave it alone.

It was heartening to see Brisbane turn up to their opening home game though. But let's wait for Brisbane to kick off properly before looking to add anything else from that region.

Townsville should be left dead in the water. it was nice while it lasted but they stopped showing up to games. And even when they were warned, they stopped showing up. I quite liked the "idea" of the Townsville crocs and everything about it. But once again, WHY will it be successful this time?

From all the talk it looks like another Sydney team is probably in the pipeline. I think it should be based on historical regional rivalries of different areas vs city dwellers rather than something superimposed.

Cal Bruton posting re Jeremy Loeliger discussing possible expansion to Canberra.

Yeh Cal's a salesman no doubt

In condemning past attempts are we ignoring Illawarra's recent issues. A new owner, front office, coach(ing staff) and team. And locals who avoided games like the plague.

Early days for them, but it does seem to be working. Remember that the Hawks were seen as a basket-case just over a year ago. Nearly every-one wanted them out of the league. Now, all we get is how good this team is.

Could private ownership help Cairns? Some-one who wants to use the NBL for their own commercial reasons, not as a service/duty to their local basketball community. I know that that sounds horrible but I am trying to be practical. IMHO, NBL1 is the ideal association service/duty.

Yes and you don't know what Cal did to the Devils when he was in control.

I don't get why Tasmania Government didn’t make the Derwent entertainment centre 7,500. It’s only half a stadium. Just watch any JackJumpers game and you’ll notice it. Cameras really need to focus on the other side of the stadium. It looks so small on the tight end.

I agree with Matt that Sydney will most likely get the next NBL license. Only issue is we have to wait till 2024.

I heard the British league will expand to a further 4 teams in the next five years to make the competition have 15 teams.

Yes, there's a massive standard difference between our leagues, but the London Lions and Leicester Riders could beat NBL team on their good day.

Britain has a five import rule compared to Australia who only have three, plus a Next Star. Europe is very different because they just play so many more games, thanks to other FIBA competitions and their Trophies, Cups etc.