Anonymous
Years ago
https://www.examiner.com.au/story/7478620/islanders-reimagined-tasmanian-wnbl-revival-a-chance/
Just make every team align with the nbl.
Seperate locations and stadiums is a really stupid idea.
No other major sport in Aus has seperate men's n women’s top tiers.
The wnbls plan last year was for a seq team first.
The plan should be
Townsville fire become cairns taipans w
New team becomes brisbane bullets w 22/23
Sydney uni flames become Sydney kings w
Canberra uni capitals become Illawara Hawks w
Southside flyers become Melbourne United w
Melbourne boomers become sem Phoenix w
Bendigo spirit cut, relocated and becomes tasmania jjs w 23/24
Adelaide lightning becomes adelaideb36ers w
Perth Lynx becomes Perth wildcats w
New team becomes nz breakers w 24/25
Future beyond 2025
Canberra get both m n w
Wellington or Canterbury get both m n w
Giacontigers
Years ago
I agree, I don't understand why our NBL teams are separate teams. If you keep it as the one brand it means you can have double headers, more media and attention to the sport.
This is only reason I don’t watch WNBL because it has no connection to the NBL. NBL and WNBL need to work together and have teams branded the same.
Exactly, even if the women's teams have different ownership, it’s hugely beneficial for the women’s game. Lj has done by far a better job than anyone in the last 15 years but the first priority should be alignment.
Afl - aflw
NRL - nrlw
Alm - alw
Bbl - wbbl
Super m - super w
Ahl m - ahl w
Aihl - awihl
Everysport except basketball has teams aligned from Afl to water polo
WNBL,was one of the first women's pro leagues here in Aus and in just 3-4 years it has been overtaken by several women’s pro leagues by viewership and earnings and has now become one of the lowest paid female sports. Only rugby union pays less out of the major sports.
https://daniellewarby.com/how-much-do-australian-sportswomen-get-paid/
Needs to get to a point where atleast the 10-12 contracted players are getting between $25,000-$60,000 a season (6 months)
Top 2 imports/marquees should be on 60
Next 2 50
Next 2 40
Next 2 35
Next 2 30
Next 2 25
When you include a couple of DPs, that's about a 500,000 salary cap.
The WNBL is its own identity.
Our WNBL is the longest running Women's National League of any sport. It doesn't rely on freebies from its male counterparts or live off their scraps. Other sports have Women's Leagues for political reasons (AFL and NRL).
We should be promoting the fact basketball has two independant National Leagues that no one else can manage to do. And ours is the longest running.
RobT
Years ago
Great idea, and would decimate the costs of court hire. You'd pay 1 set-up fee per 2 games, plus a couple of extra hours. Any live-to-air would have to exclude one of the games unfortunately, and that would more than likely be the women (sorry, but true).
Maybe the ABC, with their focus on women's sport will continue showing WNBL. Then both could be live, one after the other. Just like at the stadium but without having to change stadia, just channels, ABC for the WNBL then straight over to 10(?) for the NBL. Over 2 channels it could work. Fans can watch either/both and neither channel has to change much.
And the fan base for both would increase as NBL fans are exposed to the WNBL and visa-versa.
Stadia would always look/be full which they say, improves the televised product.
Attending fans may even get better value. You could not double the entry fee but you could up it some.
What's the cost of the cheapest seats, generally? Around $30? Fans turning up for the WNBL game pay half more, $45 and get to watch both. During the 4th q, prices go back to the norm for 1 game, $30.
Don't know what you would charge those who only wanted to watch the women's game. Maybe the 1-game fee ($30) and then have them all seated in one area. Soon as the women's game is over, that area is cleared out to allow for those attending the men's game only.
The club gains too. Those seats, if filled for both games earn you more, $60 instead of $45. And as there is only 1 set-up fee included for the double-headers, the seats will actually cost less.
That last bit is messy, isn't it? The rest isn't.
RobT
Years ago
Suggest a thread-name change. The article is short and sweet and is about WNBL franchise in Tas. And deserves a discussion. All sounds positive.
But this thread was derailed by none other than the OP (who shall remain nameless). Just a side-tracking rather than derailment as this is also worth discussing.
I hope they are aligned but I think many in charge think they can go it alone as a complete seperate entity. Those people are wrong and it will very much struggle, especially given it is in the same season as aflw
'Our WNBL is the longest running Women's National League of any sport. It doesn't rely on freebies from its male counterparts or live off their scraps. Other sports have Women's Leagues for political reasons (AFL and NRL).'
What a bunch of BS.
Just to correct a claim. Canberra United are a quite successful member of the ALW (formerly W League) and have no affiliation with a men's club in the A League.
Lol, maybe you should read the a league statement. Canberra are getting a men's team and macarthur are getting a women’s team in the next 2 years so that all teams are aligned.
Rain Man
Years ago
With some of the previous logic, successful WNBL clubs with local followings will have to locate. Canberra and Townsville. Silly. Also rebranding the Lightning and Lynx is not well thought out.
Tas needs a women's team, but the league also needs to solidify its economic position first. It does make sense though for the WNBL and NBL to team up to some extent to promote the game across the board and also harness better economic returns for both
No successful clubs currently except for the boomers
Alignment should the #1 priority, trying to build good economics without a good foundation sets you up for failure.
Some clubs have to be University linked to survive and whoever decided to go keep a license for Bendigo is a buffoon. The lowest attendance with about 25% of the salary needed to compete.
Yes it would suck for Townsville and Canberra to go away but they are likely expansion teams for the nbl in the future and will be back.
Cairns can always play games in Townsville and Illawara in Canberra.
Rest of the teams are already based in nbl locations bar nz.
Perthworld
Years ago
It's a no from me.
Every other team sport, in their desperate bid to fast track a gender they actively ignored for up to four decades of pro sport in this country, have the men's side subsiding the women's leagues - it's a money pit.
Let's not forget it wasn't that long ago when both NBL and WNBL were under BA who ripped money out from struggling NBL clubs, including the Crocs (who ultimately went under), to fund the women.
Once we merge our NBL will be left carrying the can. In the 90s when double headers were played no effort was made to make NBL supporters care about the team playing beforehand under a different name. Further synergies should've been created back then.
As a basketball fan I'm proud of our sport being the only one with a long term pro league. As a Perth Wildcats fan I don't care about the Breakers/Waves/Lynx and a rename won't change that.
Perthworld
Years ago
As a basketball fan I'm proud of our sport being the only one with a long term pro women's league.*
BA is not kestleman.
WNBL Ownership can be seperate from nbl ownership
Perthworld
Years ago
Yes, good point.
If a merge does happen they should be separate entities under LK. Don't just drain one league for the other as WNBL needs to be commercially viable in its own right.
As a basketball fan I'm proud of our sport being the only one with a long term pro women's league.*
You can be proud but it means absolutely nothing when trying to grow the wnbl.
Perthworld
Years ago
The illusion of growth via mass subsidisation means nothing either.
Perthworld, you think that the nbl and wnbl being completely seperate is a good tithing for both?
That's pretty funny
Giacontigers
Years ago
WNBL is a a bit like WNBA but the major difference is that our league is smaller. We don't see WNBA NBA teams going around.
Giacontigers
Years ago
It's good their considering bringing back the original Tasmanian woman's franchise. This is where NBL has done a terrible job not even considering bringing back Magic/Dragons franchises for South East Melbourne and the Hobart Devils. Yes there may of been copyright issues, but NBL needed to do more work.
And is the wnba thriving?
The nba heavily fund it.
Some nba players even send give money to wnba players as a bonus before 2021.
Because of the nba, the best wnba 0layers get $220,000 a season.
Max just a few years ago was $80,000 with a min of $35,000.
Min is now around $50,000.
I was wrong, min is now 58,000.
$10,000,000 loss for the wnba this year subsidised by the nba.
$10,000,000 loss for the wnba this year subsidised by the nba.
Yes, 2 years ago it was $12,000,000 subsidised by the nba with $57,000,000 running cost.
Perthworld
Years ago
Yes, 2 years ago it was $12,000,000 subsidised by the nba with $57,000,000 running cost.
Correcting a counter claim. The claim was ARE aligned not WILL be aligned and as yet no official announcement has been made regarding a Canberra men's side just an Insta "hint". The Central Coast and Western United women are slated to join in 2022 but again that is a WILL not an ARE. Central Coast are also a re-join after flopping after the first 2 years of the W League. NRLW only has 6 teams at the moment (and just lost Wellington). Then throw in the fact that Super League Netball has no male equivalent (or is it not a major pro sport?) The major reason there is such "alignment" in other sports has been pointed out by Perthworld and that is that those sports have effectively been dragged kicking and screaming (as far as rusted on fans are concerned) into the 21st century. Just read the comments by AFL "fans" in particular about how their hard earned men's money is being spent on the "inferior" women's game and how it should be made to stand on its own. If opportunities for women in sport can be created in ANY fashion then that is good. I don't care whether that is "artificial" or natural as has been the case with many WNBL clubs. As a former Bendigo person who still travels 90 minutes both ways to see the team play I am damn proud of the fact that young girls in Bendigo and surrounding areas can aspire to develop a basketball career without leaving home in their formative years. Sport should not just be about making squillions of dollars. The risk with alignment is always that if the finances don't work the women's team is always going to be the first to go if the numbers don't stack up. At least with stand alone they are masters of their own destiny. The AFL and NRL are such financial juggernauts with massive TV/crowd money behind them that they can wear a loss on AFLW/NRLW. They also have so many rusted on fans they can push through any irrational foot stomping from supporters when it comes to "subsidising" women's teams. Basketball in this country will most likely never reach those financial heights and the sports' track record with clubs in both genders coming and going is not that flash. Things seemed to have settled down for now but it is only 5 years on from the last defunct NBL club (Townsville). That made for a total of 7 defunct clubs since 2000 (8 if you count Canberra going to Newcastle and then going bust). Who wants to explain to a community why their club was ripped away from them and sent interstate only to flop 4 or 5 years down the track because the decision was purely a financial one (which then didn't work out to be that financial). Maybe we should go down the track of many European sport clubs and align everything? Barcelona have just about everything but darts under the one "roof" so why not do that as well? That turns all of the Collingwood AFL men's fans automatically into fans of NRL, NRLW, NBL, WNBL, ALM, ALW etc, attendances go through the roof and everyone automatically makes squillions of dollars!
Giacontigers
Years ago
That turns all of the Collingwood AFL men's fans automatically into fans of NRL, NRLW, NBL, WNBL, ALM, ALW etc.
Sorry that was sarcasm, am not suggesting we align all sports under one "roof" at all. I notice that the immediate assumption was that Townsville WNBL would move to Cairns NBL and not the other way around despite Townsville having the greater population and the move North would increase travel cost/times. Let's call this discussion for what it is shall we? A bunch of armchair expert (most likely) blokes pontificating on how they could fix women's sport if they just ran it like blokes do.
The pressure will build as the wnbl continues to fall behind.
Leni
Years ago
Been there, done that with the same ownership for NBL/WNBL teams. It didn't work and the WNBL clubs were a lot worse off after the divorces.
The biggest thing I’ve realised in following basketball for 25+ years is that men’s and women’s basketball fans are very different beasts. There are very few people that fall into the bucket of being an active fan of both.
The women’s league needs its own fans that will are willing to pay for the product, not NBL fans that *may* come to a game or part of a game when it’s thrown in for free.
The biggest issue for the WNBL is that BA brings very little to the table as far as growth and promotion of the competition.
What did LJ bring? New sponsors or corporate partners? Better marketing? Nope, just lots of vision statements about what the competition deserves but no action to attain it.
It’s a shame that the few good GMs the league had have departed. Teams like Townsville and Melbourne show it can be done well, but you need the right people behind running the show (people with business acumen, not "basketball people").
The NBL run their off court stuff anyone so what's the difference? They took over all BA’s commercial operations a few years ago. You people have no idea what you are talking about
Most people on here have opinions to which they are entitled of course, but as you said they know nothing about the reality of the real Basketball world.
They will align when someone with a business brain takes over and yes I'm aware that lj has a degree.
Probably the same people who wanted the qbl, seabl, waratah, premier league etc to stay as is.
Get with the times and stop using the past as any sort of reference.
Giacontigers
Years ago
I agree, people do need to move on. NBL1 will be great in the long run. The only issue NBL made was when Larry got rid of the Melbourne Tigers.
When were the nbl teams and wnbl ever aligned from top to bottom?
Never...
Weedy Slug
Two years ago
Surely time for wnbl Tassie?
Too many women not getting gametime + quite a few coming back from college.
Weedy Slug
Two years ago
With Canberra men to come in, only Townsville and Southside would be out of place in the wnbl now.
The boomers are essentially sem.
Tasmania islanders and a brissie wnbl team as stated by the ceo of wnbl surely would push both nbl/wnbl to align.
Footloose
Two years ago
Boomers are based in the north of Melbourne now so more like Boomers & United. Southside are based in the south of Melbourne so more likely to be linked with SEM
Weedy Slug
Two years ago
It's only because of the sbc expansion construction that they moved to msac for a while.
Boomers, Phoenix home is the sbc.
I reckon Southside will eventually fold or move making way for a Melbourne United counterpart.
Both will train at hoop city, use John Cain(men/women) or msac(women)
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