MATT
Years ago
Whilst we look at the Opals playing at the moment in the Olympics, the next Gen are about to leave for Hungary and their first game is just over a week away.
Aug 8 vs Egypt
Aug 9 vs USA
Aug 10 vs Italy
My feeling is with the strength of the squad they will crush it and go undefeated, the majority of these girls will be repping Opals at the Brisbane Olympics in 2032.
I think they'll be underperformers like the boys u19
Doesn’t help with...
Potters knee injury
Price choosing aflw
Players like brazel, paea, Woolley, cotton not even getting a chance to prove themselves.
No dominant post player.
Having 3 double bottom agers shows you that their might be a problem with the talent pool.
My s5
Melbourne
Swain
Puoch
Dunn
Prior
Loughridge
Morgan
Borlase
Pollerd
Rees
Deeble
Evans
I’d say 3-7 finish.
MATT
Years ago
Who are the standouts Matt?
I think the obvious ones are Debble, Melbourne, Rees and Swain if she stays healthy. I think they have to play Deeble and Melbourne as a 1-2 combo against teams with speed.
The biggest issue they may have is a sameness to their depth so the starters having to grind out big minutes to get the job done may be a risk.
After looking at the Opals D last night you do wonder about our D as a nation in the girls or womens game.
MATT
Years ago
I think they'll be underperformers like the boys u19
Have to believe to receive, but if i am wrong and it is a bronze that is still pretty good
Melbourne and Puoch are future senior opals longterm
Swain and loughridge maybe
The rest won't be imo. Some may be in camps, some a tournament here or there but likely nothing for extended period of time.
Loughridge is better than deeble I think, the only thing Deeble has on dallas is height 2 more inches and Amore consistent outside shot.
Puoch is the future wing for Australia, 2024 maybe too early at 20y.o. 2026 WC probably.
USA will win.
2nd to 9th could be anyone.
Korea, Egypt, taipei 10th-12th
Taipei only made cus 3 countries backed out.
Big Mike
Years ago
From seeing the U20 nationals for me the clear starting five would be
Deeble
Melbourne
Swain
Evans
Prior
If you see it any other way you haven't been watching
Bet ya bottom dollar big mike that won't be the s5
Not evans and unlikely both Deeble and Melbourne.
First game v Egypt will cycle through some players.
Big Mike
Years ago
I cant see how you don't start Evans when she was the MVP of the nationals
Because it was u20s and many players were not there.
Swain was injured. Rees in college, 3 dba not in that age group. Etc etc
Squad will struggle losing key players and playing in the worst league in Australia.
USA by 20+ per game
Aus 4th to 6th
I think gems will be better in 2 years than this team.
I think sapphires will be worse in 1 year than previous team
07/08/09 sapphires 2024
04/05/06 gems 2023
05/06/07 sapphires 2022
02/03/04 gems 2021
03/04/05 sapphires 2020 cancelled due to Covid
00/01/02 gems 2019 2nd-silver
01/02/03 sapphires 2018 3rd-bronze
98/99/00 gems 2017 6th
99/00/01 sapphires 2016 1st-gold
We've had a good last 5 years.
anon
Years ago
03/04/05 sapphires 2020 cancelled due to Covid
This was a real shame, this team were good and all key players for fit and firing at the nationals.
Puoch is the future wing for Australia, 2024 maybe too early at 20y.o. 2026 WC probably.
In time, maybe....she has always struggled against any physicality and even in the u18 the SA bigs bullied her. If you get through her in the press she doesn't offer much in D AT THE MOMENT, but will in time...give her time, no way she is getting ahead of girls like Maley, Potter etc or any of the kids in college who played in Gold WC for sapphires or Silver for Gems. in the near future unless she grows which she might.
She hasn't been able to get over the hump against anyone except for kids her own age. She had as many turnovers as points in 16 mins in the only real game in Waratah, she is young and is not as tall as players that she gets compared to. Great kid, great future but chill
Maley is more a pf than a sf atm.
Potter is a shooting wing.
Puoch is a slasher.
The girls from sapphires and gems had no slashing wings.
Sapphires-Simmons has gone to aflw, Simons is a shooter, rowe is a defender.
Gems-Nnopu a defender, mainly playing pf. The other 2 were once again potter n Simons.
Sa u18 did not have any bigs against her, most of the players were 5'10-6’0 guards.
Shes 6’2 as a double bottom ager which makers her taller than potter, Nnopu, rowe, Simmons
Simons 4 years older is 6'2, Pollerd, once again more of a shooting wing 6’3, 2 years older.
Potter 6’1, rowe 6’0, Simmons 5’11, nnopu 5’11, price aflw was 6’1, Dunn 6’1 a pf, notoa 5’11
Are you talking about physical size, length or height?
anon
Years ago
Sa u18 did not have any bigs against her, most of the players were 5'10-6'0 guards and Puoch is the future wing for Australia, 2024 maybe too early at 20y.o. 2026 WC probably.
That is my point, the two SA girls B&B were agile enough to keep with her and too strong for her in the post. I have seen the same thing each year, she will get stronger at the COE but to say she is the wing for the Senior 2026 WC isn't realistic.
The times I have seen her beaten is posting her up, no way she is dealing with Steph Talbot or Anneli's strength at that level. If she is THE wing, who does she replace at that tournament (serious question) who are the group of wings at that 2026 who are competing for the wing spots.
If we make top 5 I'll be surprised.
USA, Spain, France are very very good.
Italy are euro champs, Japan super quick, mali always give 100, hungary always consistent at this level, Brazil back again, Russia with some elite youth, Canada always improving.
Nostrildamus
Years ago
Egypt is a nice easy opener, will allow the guards to get confidence and hog the ball with no other hands seeing it, which they will then repeat vs the good teams and bow out early due to the lack of ball movement
06/07/08 gems 2026 (new gems coach)
07/08/09 sapphires 2024 (new sapphires coach)
04/05/06 gems 2023 (D.Herbert again likely)
05/06/07 sapphires 2022 (T.York again likely)
02/03/04 gems 2021 (D.Herbert)
03/04/05 sapphires 2020 cancelled due to Covid (T.York)
00/01/02 gems 2019 2nd-silver (D.Butler)
01/02/03 sapphires 2018 3rd-bronze (S.Seebohm)
98/99/00 gems 2017 6th (D.Butler)
99/00/01 sapphires 2016 1st-gold (S.Seebohm)
Every coach seems to get 2 shots at it
Seebohm Gold and Bronze
Butler Silver and 6th
York DNP
Herbert ?
Terrible crossover for us
Finishing 1st or 2nd in group would be a disaster. Would face France or Spain in 1/4 finals.
Struggled as expected vs the US once we had to explore bench depth. Too much size, athleticism, shooting from the Americans with whatever lineup they trotted out. Once they started denying Deeble in the 2nd Q, it went to custard.
Not sure if Herbert didnt want to show much but the adjustments were quite limited. Saw a bit of zone in the 4th Q. Ran the same baseline play to no avail repeatedly. Swain didnt play much in the second half either so wonder if she picked up an injury.
On to the next game!
Anon
Years ago
Loughbridge should definitely be the starting PG, I think Melbourne is more of a 2.
Deeble is significantly better than Loughridge at this stage. Stronger, quicker, better shooter, more experienced. That being said, Loughridge is good and had a nice first stint off the bench.
Evans needs to be more involved also but against the US, each of her opponents were taller than her which might be a first in her career.
ok random Dandenong fan. Hardly productive discussion.
Anon
Years ago
It appeared to me that Gems played quite well, shot the ball well and the USA team were missing layups and played below themselves, they left a lot of points out there and still won by 40. Melbourne has to figure out that flopping won't be paid at FIBA events like it was in the WNBL last season, all the refs will do is turn on her for doing it, hence the 5 fouls. We have very little depth, Deeble was good and then got tired. Watching the Gems main players had me thinking that most were picked for the u17 worlds that didn't happen, we would have been deep in that tournament, not in this one though
Loughridge
Swain
Melbourne
Puoch
Rees
Deeble
Morgan
Dunn
Pollerd
Prior
Borlase
Evans
Anon
Years ago
Loughridge
Swain
Melbourne
Puoch
Rees
Deeble
Morgan
Dunn
Pollerd
Prior
Borlase
Evans
Cant see that happening, Morgan and Dunn didn't score against Egypt and it seems they may be on the outer with court time etc Borlase is trying hard maybe switch those two
Evans was so good at U20's, not athletic enough at this level?
Nah it's more running the floor. Pace of the game.
Mins per game
Deeble 23
Melbourne 21.2
Evans 21
Prior 20.9
Pollerd 19.5
Loughridge 18.1
Swain 17.1
Borlase 15.9
Rees 15.6
Puoch 12.4
Morgan 12
Dunn 9.2
Way too many minutes for Evans and prior 19-15 each...
Less minutes for Pollerd, Morgan. 10 each…
Far too few for Loughridge, swain, Puoch and Rees 20 each…
Way too many minutes for Evans and prior 10-15 each...
Less minutes for Pollerd, Morgan. 10 each...
Far too few for Loughridge, swain, Puoch and Rees 20 each…
The closing out on clark was atrocious, Herbert did nothing to stop it.
Nah it's more running the floor. Pace of the game.
Wouldn't that be not athletic enough?
No it's conditioning, she always behind the play. Rim to rim she is very slow,
Rees has more exp at a higher level and is 3 inches taller plus is quicker.
We will be ousted in the 1/4s if they don’t improve d and rebound
Two atrocious teams dished up this year for 19's? Remember when we used to medal in at least one, sometimes both?
Coe has become a joke.
U20 npp team in each nbl1 conference is the go.
I see 5 future opals on this 2021 team.
Loughridge
Deeble
Melbourne
Swain
Puoch
2019 had 5 imo - ?
Heal
Scanlon
Shelley
Potter
Anstey
2017 has 5 also - all have been in senior n,t camp
Rocci
Shelley
Maley
Magbegor
Aokuso
2015 has 5 also - all have been in senior n.t camp
Wallace
Maley
Smith
Magbegor
Scherf
2013 also had 5 - all have been in senior n.t camp
Mangakahia
Wilson
Talbot
Garbin
Scherf
It seems asthough we can only produce 5 / 12 that go to the highest level levels.
So much for going undefeated. We couldn't get close to the US.
It looks like
Tier 1
USA
Tier 2
France-Spain-Aus-Japan-mali
Tier 3
Canada-Russia-Italy-hungary
Tier 4
Czech, Korea, taipei, Egypt, Brazil, Argentina
Anon
Years ago
Russia and probably Hungary are better than Aus and should be Tier 2, Aus, Japan and maybe Mali Tier 3. our second quarter vs Egypt was 6-2 with 3 mins to go, we aren't that good
Anon
Years ago
2019 had 5 imo - ?
Heal
Scanlon
Shelley
Potter
Anstey
Scanlon couldn't get minutes in the WCC for Gonzaga, couldn't get on, bit different to Amoore who is dominating playing the main role for her team in a really good conference so switch those two.
Potter would have been a certainty but who knows now, Wallace has been rehabbing for years, you just don't know how they will recover
You can't use college as a determining factor, that has been proven to mean jackshite
Opals dropping 10 places n rankings seems likely in next decade.
Anon
Years ago
You can't use college as a determining factor, that has been proven to mean jackshite
Then what are you using?, a depleted NBL1 comp? Guy Molloy has a deep deep history in not playing australian guards so don't expect that to have any bearing and to get an invite to Opals as a young guard you need to do what Shyla did. Play in a team that needs you to play big minutes
Maley went from no minutes at college to best rebounder in the wnbl...
And has improved every part of her game.
Anon
Years ago
But she got her break at Bendigo where she was given big minutes which got her the Townsville main role. She spent the first couple of seasons sitting on the bench watching "more senior" players and playing junk time even though she deserved more as she has proven. Maybe Scanlon will do that too but ask Chelsea and Mon how that went under Molloy.NBL1 is a depleted comp, you can't count that for anything other than a good foundation to get her back into things. There is no way she is on Opals depth chart unless Veal gets the job. Bit part player under Gorris
Anon
Years ago
Maley was playing minutes, got on court in champs and was in a superstar team. They are not the same, Pac12 is WNBL WCC is Big V, can't compare. Maley also starred for Aus teams, Scanlon hasnt
I made no link between Melbourne and scanlon, all I said is one day I believe she will be an opal.
We are close to a point where anyone born say pre 93 is finished.
We have maybe 5 pgs born 93-00 and 5 post 00 that look like they may have a future as an opal.
Anon
Years ago
Probably wrong place wrong time, the opportunity Jade Melbourne got last year due to injury puts her in the depth chart along side Shyla Heal. Can't see them going anywhere for 10 years. Then you have Tiana and Jaz. Will probably have to try and find a team where she plays like those two have.
I don't think France or Spain l[k that scary to me.
Shelley lol, she's one of those players that has regressed significantly. Main reason she had to go Nebraska after losing her gametime
Cant handle, can’t defend and last season couldn’t even shoot.
Not a pg either...
Had a good freshman season, had fun, basketball went out the window and became terrible replaced by a freshman and Chavez
Some of the mali girls don't look 18/19.
I worry about cheating and corruption in Africa region
Anon
Years ago
College means stuff all, and most struggle when they come back into the Australian system
CofE give automatic entry and it shouldn't, because the best don’t always go there, it’s not how good you are in many cases but how good your connections are to get you into a position to get noticed
Anon
Years ago
That games vs Italy was hard to watch. We are really lucky their best player went out of the game with an injury. Will probably beat Argentina but as the last post says it is COE kids playing Waratah style basketball. Clearly Dunn and Morgan have been picked for no other reason, he isn't even playing them. BA resting on their past results instead of fixing issues that now see a gaping hole in this u19 level in both men and women
No idea what herbert is doing, he looks confused.
Anon
Years ago
This gems team sadly isn't a patch on previous teams , very ordinary play really when you watch it, relying on Melbourne to run the show and shes just not that type of player , she’s still in Un14 s mode of run and gun , look very disorganised and far too many silly mistakes ... Herbie is a good enough coach but looks out of his depth here in trying to get a lot out of them
Borlasse & Prior both solid. Loughridge should start over Deeble, she's been out most reliable guard so far
A few hours ago
"
Borlasse & Prior both solid. Loughridge should start over Deeble, she's been out most reliable guard so far"
If she the best we have we are in deep doodoo
As PG the role is to control tempo, organise and look fur options after plays are set up, sadly they all seem to be playing fit themselves... the assists are almost none existent
Why would you not start prior at center, the leading rebounder and Puoch at pf.
Evans has been very inefficient getting 21 mins a game whilst Puoch has been Moree efficient and productive in 1/3 less minutes
Deeble, Melbourne, Swain, Puoch, Prior
the best s5
1/4s
USA vs Spain (USA)
Winner face winner of
Hungary vs Czech Republic (50/50)
Australia vs Canada (50/50)
Winner faces winner of
Mali vs Russia (mali)
If Aus win against Canada, I'd say we have a real,shot at bronze. Have to stop wilson, Canada’s pg.
Anon
Years ago
the double bottom age girls are really showing up the top age 02's, we will do well in the u17. As bad as the girls are the comp other than USA looks to be playing the same. Dallas is really showing Jade how a point runs a team game
I don't think we will see U17s, was cancelled last year and likely won’t be on this year. The next u17s is next year 05/06/07 athletes. Next u19s in 23 04/05/06 athletes
Jade isn't even the pg, she’s been the 2 guard all tournament.
We have very few quality 05 players, quite a few good 06 and 07s though.
Who knows how we will go next year....
Mento 37
Years ago
If the ball is in your hands 80% of your court time the chances are you'll produce stats and lots of turnovers.
US have a fantastic inside outside game, most of their plays run through the post. Their guards are patient, poise, take great shot selections and organise structure. All US players know their roles and are unselfish. AUS are yet to get a tick for any of the above yet. Unfortunately we can not continue to be kamikazis driving into the key and chucking up garbage against these teams. Sorry it ain’t gunna cut it, it’s not Waratah league. Stop worrying about dropping 20pts a game, Move the ball, get through offenses trust your team mates, PLAY AS A TEAM. Simple
Anon
Years ago
Jade isn't even the pg, she's been the 2 guard all tournament.
I agree totally with Mento 37. and to answer this statment below
If she was the 2 she would hand off to the 1 and get in position to shoot.
She takes D rebounds which is great and then plays the Kamikaze u14 run and gun and jacks it up. NOTHING has changed since the U20 finals, NOTHING.
FIBA refs are all over her after the flopping tech foul in an early game.
Whilst on COE development how Can Dunn and Pollerd spend 2 years at COE under the assistant coach and get junk time?
If i were the 2004 kids i would run home as soon as they can and get real development in their home states, they have made their names they don't need the COE.
Anonymous
Years ago
I don't think we will see U17s, was cancelled last year and likely won't be on this year. The next u17s is next year 05/06/07 athletes. Next u19s in 23 04/05/06 athletes
If they can have this 19s why wouldn't they have the 17s? the 04 girls have shown total poise and composure where others haven't I would say that are certain medalists if it happens
U17s would already be on calender if it was going ahead.
Disagree with medaling in u17 too, our team is not special, most teams have 1-5 04s in the currentbu19s and several 03s.
U17 team if it changed, what would it be now?. I'd go with small ball since we have very few centers.
(HC-T.York)
5’6 04 D.Loughridge vic pg
5’8 03 K.Deeble qld pg
5’8 03 S.Dunlop nsw sg
5’9 04 T.Heal vic pg
5’10 03 S.Swain qld sg
5’11 04 I.Borlase sa g/f
6’0 04 T.Brazel sa g/f
6’1 03 C.Dunn vic cf
6’1 04 J.Crawshaw cf
6’2 03 M.Prior nsw pf/c
6’2 04 N.Puoch vic cf
6’3 03 C.Evans nsw c
Anonymous
Years ago
Disagree with medaling in u17 too, our team is not special, most teams have 1-5 04s in the currentbu19s and several 03s.
Looking at that team you may be right actually, I take it back, I would have Dunlop in from Bendigo
Hasn't really done a whole lot though in the last year.
Anonymous
Years ago
Played WNBL hub, Doing really well in a good Bendigo NBL1 team and was in the final squad for the 19s so would have to go close. We would need someone else to chase the boards
We're on the selected team last year
Price - aflw
Simons - good u18s but still needs work
Goodchild - another undersized pf
P.Dunlop - wnbl but hasn’t really done much 8 n 6 in 30+ mins in nbl1.
Crawshaw is a better rebounder than dunlop and is on the list for the next u19s
Under york, of course dunlop would be chosen, maybe cut the other dunloo(shalome) and bring piper.
5'6 04 D.Loughridge vic pg
5’8 03 K.Deeble qld pg
5’9 04 T.Heal vic pg
5’10 03 S.Swain qld sg
5’11 04 I.Borlase sa g/f
6’0 04 T.Brazel sa g/f
6’1 03 C.Dunn vic cf
6’1 04 J.Crawshaw nsw cf
6’2 03 M.Prior nsw pf/c
6’2 03 P.Dunlop vic c
6’2 04 N.Puoch vic cf
6’3 03 C.Evans nsw c
Deeble-Loughridge-Heal
Swain-Brazel
Puoch-Borlase
Dunn-Crawshaw
Prior-Evans-Dunlop
Deeble-Loughridge-Heal
Swain-Brazel
Puoch-Borlase
Dunn-Crawshaw
Prior-Evans-Dunlop
Mento 37
Years ago
Totally Agree @ Anon
Dunn should be playing mins, disappointing to see this she's extremely productive whilst on the court makes great decisions, rebounds well, is a good team player - when she got on against Argentina she made impact in her very little time, got a steal or 2, crashed the boards. I’d be starting Dunn over Swain and limiting Swain’s mins (she’s only just come back from 18mths off with an ACL) these are her first proper games back, she goes too rogue and yes there are buckets she makes, but doesn’t understand when to ease up, and it’s extremely detrimental in parts of the game with the momentum - IMO should be dragged, but doesn’t.
I feel sorry for the bigs / they’re sealing their backsides off and can’t even get any ball, the only ball they get is busting after O’ boards. Their jobs are screening and rebounding. Even after 5 mins of sealing they decide to pass it in and the pass is to their feet or to the defense. We need to go back to learning how to pass decent post passes especially under pressure.
Re: U/17’s All looks good there with list, York will take P.Dunlop, I think J.Petrie could be added in here instead of Heal
Anonymous
Years ago
Looked very ordinary v USA after Q1. They just picked us apart, got everything they wanted. Nowhere near enough ball pressure plus help D seemed at least a step out of position all game.
We don't have much structure to fall back on if we can't get to the rack and the 3 ball isn't falling.
Seebohm's Gem's much better organised.
Anon
We are falling way behind when you watch the U16s euro champs going on now.
Surprisingly 6 teams have centers 6'6 or taller born 05/06.
Malonga from France already touted as the next jonquel Jones.
No urgency or hustle, the women's program needs an overhaul.
All the loose balls have been picked up by Canada and has kept them in it.
Anonymous
Years ago
Wilson carving on Deeble, need to change the match up.
Big Mike
Years ago
Are you even watching the game?? Wilson has 13 points and 8 of them were when Deeble was off the court and she threw up a prater shot buzzer-beater for 3 of 5 when Deeble was on. Seems like some people in this chat have ulterior motives
Anonymous
Years ago
Wilson was waltzing into the paint unpressured, opening up all their offensive options.
Defense picked up in Q4.
Big Mike
Years ago
Mate Wilson has 7 turnovers and shooting 2/16 with Deeble on the court
Anonymous
Years ago
Sorry pal, Wilson set up the Q3 comeback... gave her the left hand and let her go to the middle.
Big Mike
Years ago
Wow she just scored again with Deeble off the court
Anonymous
Years ago
Great fight back when challenged. Good luck in the semis.
Herbert wtf is he doing.
Puoch s5
Play Dunn, Rees and Morgan fool
Anonymous
Years ago
Hey Big Mike, put your stat sheet down and go and re watch Q3...
I agree, irrelevant in the end, but defense cranked up in Q4 and Wilson eventually became a non-factor.
Big Mike
Years ago
Hey Anonymous, its ok to admit when you are wrong sometimes
Deeble was better on d vs Wilson, no doubt, when Dallas came in she was lazy, not closing out and then Wilson had her way in the third.
Puoch saved our butts. 25 and 7, 3 steals off the bench. Why? Prior center, Puoch pf.....
Evans just does not have the stamina for this level
Not playing Dunn or Rees or Morgan is just a stupid call. Dunn looks very unhappy.
No idea why Dunn doesn't get atleast 15 mins at pf
Big Mike
Years ago
I agree Dunn needs some playing time way too good of a player to get no minutes
France getting beaten and the worst of topm4 falling on our bracket has helped.
Mali is all effort and heart. I worry with Kone vs Evans.
Need all firing tomorrow, Swain had a poor shooting game.
Keeping Canada's senior future pg to 27% was a good effort
Triple bottom ager for Russia is a full grown women tank.
KT
Years ago
SWAIN SUCKS SO BAD WHY IS SHE PLAYING LIKE WHATTT DUNN NEEDS TO PLAY SHE SHOULD BE A START IF ANYTHING
Anonymous
Years ago
Big Mike, you clearly didn't watch the game you nob.
Big Mike
Years ago
no need to get personal Anonymous, at least I put my name to my posts, why don't you sack up and put your name on here, you weak prick
Bob Bobalina
Years ago
Hi guys it's me, Bob been away for a while, NBA draft, Olympics, and now at FIBA.. Well, Well what the hell am i watching, Dunn signed with Virginia Tech ( hope they are not watching) the standard is woeful players cant even use both hands the rotations off the bench should the coach doesn't know his player. Is this the best from the CEO??????? seriously.
Let me say this Canada should have won and it was a case of the least worst team winning not the better team.
Lastly the punter on here said Puoch and Melbourne future opals well stop skulling the kool aide.....
Bob, you have been wrong about everything. stop trollin.
Cmon Russia, give Aus the best chance of making final.
You can't even play Evans against mali, has to be a collective of Puoch, prior and Dunn in the post.
Mento 37
Years ago
Lucky to scrape through, swain needs to come off the bench and Puoch needs to take her minutes, seriously just interested in herself and scoring points - shot selection is out of control.
Doesn't get dragged, Predictable on her every play (from first catch from tip off - she has to SHOOT the first shot in offence) I can not watch her play - so inconsiderate and it showed v USA she got chewed up. Even Prior, she plays 30 mins and I struggle to see what she’s done, yes she crashes the boards well but not a threat from the perimeter at all, actually can not shoot at all from 1 step outside the key.
The starting line up all tournament every quarter has been fine, the 3rd quarter Canada got in front because Evans didn’t start. Next minute- oops you’re down by 15 - great decision there lol.
Shes the smartest post player in the nation, her poise and court vision and basketball iq is second to none, she will control the tempo of the game (well try to when the guards want to calm TF down) don’t go talking about stamina - you won’t get gassy, erratic, poor decisions from her.
I’d like to see Prior coming off the bench, I think she could add so much more and add impact straight away.
Deeble
Melbourne
Puoch
Prior
Evans
That’s what I’d go with for Mali
You do understand Herbie ain’t running the show here.... If you’re a favourite at the COE you’ll play here
I'm pretty confident we won. I love all the keyboard warriors who want to make household changes when we are winning
Mento 37
Years ago
Yes, good observation Anonymous - we won, girls did well.
A win is a win - no matter how it looks. Not taking that away at all.
Australia is in the top 4 in the world !! It's amazing considering the girls lead up to this, Waratah League, lucky to play 8 games in 2 years. Seriously it’s fantastic.
I’m Just adding my keyboard warrior opinion to this forum.
Moving forward, Go back and watch all games, watch momentum swings, watch were the group can improve in these lapses. How can we get over the next hurdle to have a crack at the gold???
Mento 37
Years ago
Yep why not? Players lift in these occasions.
She matched up on Betts (AKA #1 US ranked player in C/O 2022 6'7) and did well - her points were scored off bad rotations.
Mali were 3/17 from the 3pt line, do you really think we’re going to be matching up????? Come on buddy..... you seem to know a little bit about basketball……
Pack the key, be prepared to see a bit of zone against this team.. sunshine.
Evans has been the most disappointing player for Aus this tournament. She was on 25+ mins and its getting dwindled down to 18 mins. Shooting at 25%, avg 4/4.6/1. The worst stats by mins in the team.
Rees has done better in only 12 mins, prior is doubling her in rebounds, Puoch is scoring 3 times as much avg same minutes. She's slow moving side to side, up and down the floor, she has no strength, no length and no athleticism. We would have been better off taking sewell or dunlop
Mento 37
Years ago
Do you watch the games or just the stats?? Serious question
Undersized Dunn over Evans
Deeble
Melbourne
Puoch
Dunn
Prior
Loughridge
Swain
Morgan
Borlase
Rees
Pollerd
Evans
Mento, I've watched every junior game since 2013 several times
Evans had 3-3-0 against usa.... In 26 mins, shooting 20%
Mento 37
Years ago
I like your way of thinking..
Dunn has played 3 out of the 5 games (2 games didn't hit the floor) but you’d start her in the 4 ???
Hate to break it to you - she’s a guard champ 2/3.
It’s ok to have watched junior level from 2013 (you might have watched me play then)
I’m seriously interested in having a conversation with more intelligence in this forum, that have at least played or coached at a decent level - state or for AUS. Go back to sitting on the net and watching and trolling the stats.
Dunn has never been a guard for her entire jr career..
She was the center at knox u14, vic metro pf at nationals and now has been trying to mould into the 3 spot at Coe because she's only 6’1.
The exact same thing with previous undersized bigs like Bibby and fowler.
Mento you are just one salty parent.
At Virginia tech the aim would be the 3, but history shows it would be difficult. Bibby, Maley and Horvat as examples. All planned at the 3, ended up playing 4
Big Mike
Years ago
@mento its nice that someone in this chat has a clue about whats going on
Mento 37
Years ago
@Big Mike, no worries buddy
Big Mike —- Correct me if if wrong - most of the 03 players will be ineligible for U/17's as they are already 17 now and turning 18 this year.
Hi guys,
Don't know any of these girl's history but from watching these games have a few observations to share.
The whole team plays good defence in the crunch.
Our Bigs are serviceable but not guns in offence,hard to score at this level of opposition's size and athleticism.
Our strength is in the guards in offence.Early on they were forcing shots in traffic but now starting to look for open shooters.
Puoch has played herself into starter.Needs to be a 3 down the track but her handle needs lot of work.
Swain should come off the bench for hopefully good impact.
Deeble main guard,Melbourne a 2 and if her brain ever catches up with her foot speed watch out.
Loughridge is a good backup guard.
If Dunn is as good as you say then shit she should play against Mali.
Probs a press back to zone might work against Mali but it is going to be hard to keep up with them.They have come a long way in the last few years and have wonderful athletes and spirit and know the game a lot better now.
Good luck Gems!
Lol. Yes the u17s would remain 03/04/05 players after being cancelled in 2020 and possibly rescheduled for late 2021.
The next u17s in 2022 are 05/06/07. Asia u16 late 21 or early 22
Bob Bobalina
Years ago
dunn a guard lol, you have to hit the court first
Red84
Years ago
Borlase has used her limited minutes well. Unlike certain guards, Borlase looks after the ball, does not do stupid stuff. Kept the US shooter Clark quiet when she defended her in late Q2 and early Q3. Was steady and sparked a revival vs canada when brought on in Q3. Always dangerous in transition.
Now we are in the pointy end of the tourney, those who have played minutes and turned the ball over or made poor decisions need to be held to account.
PS i am NOT a south aussie.
Mali although erratic just never quit, are fast and athletic.
It's going to be tough.
USA should wipe out hungary.
Hungary vs Aus for bronze fairly even contest.
Red84
Years ago
I saw mali vs russia game. An ugly, ugly match. Just how competitive mali are vs Australia depends on our defensive structures. If we commit our slow bigs to ball traps way past the 3 point line, don't be surprised to see an opposition big do a back cut and stroll to the ducket. Goodness knows how many times that happened in usa game. It was embarassing. Then there is the question as to whether our offense can graduate from iso stupid pill driving to the basket to something resembling genuine ball movement, finding more open catch and shooters. I reckon one reason the us shoot better, is that their shooting guards are encouraged to....er....shoot. Our guards needlessly complicate things - hesitating, wondering whether to drive or shoot. Damn it, if offensive ball movement has yielded you a 2 step advantage, then fucking shoot the ball!
I am surprised we made it this far tbh.
Going in I was expecting 1/4 finals. A medal imo would exceed expectation eventhough we haven't been great.
Given 3 of our 2004 born players have probably been in our top 6 overall, we should expect a medal or close to in 2023 also.
Potter and price were big outs, it's a pity one was injured at nationals and the other decided to drop basketball for Afl.
Red84
Years ago
I concur. Not as if the teams in the 5 to 8 classification are outstanding. We played better vs canada and did deserve the win. And i expect our girls will prevail over Mali - although dumb coaching plus chronic rewarding poorly performing players with minutes are threats. Given our dreadful form in our usa pool game we would have to be a 100 to 1 shot vs USA in a gold metal game.
I don't think we will be able to stop Kone. Herbert would have to throw someone else on her.
Evans 0 rebounds in 1sr half.
Prior 1 rebound.
Swain n Pollerd 0 pts in 14 mins
Our bigs are so bad, Puoch comes in and grabs 8 inn15 mins
my ears are getting destroyed by one of the most grating accents ever.
on the court Gems are playing well, certainly a battle on defensive boards. Mali struggling to contain Melbourne, Puoch, Deeble off the dribble and it is starting to open drive and dish or kick opportunities.
Mali have only made 6 field basketball to half time, of which 3 were 3's. The Mali bigs are drawing a few fouls and this could be an issue down the stretch.
31 to 24 at the half.
Cannot believe Dunn a great rebounder is not playing.
Lucky mali are nott moving the ball like previous games.
Mali girls running sprints during half time break.
arm wrestle that quarter. Questionable 3rd foul on Puoch trying to guard Kone on an inbound set the tone. Had to sit. Swain then hurt with some decisions and misses and gave Mali some hope. Gems could have built a nice lead if they could hit some perimeter shots.
Otherwise some solid coaching to call a time out and settle them and also get the starters some rest during a tight 3rd quarter.
Should have rested starters and avoided too much foul trouble heading into the last.
Going to be a tight last quarter
baskets from Melbourne, 3 from Pollard and a rare transition basket by Puoch steadies Australia and forces a Mali time out. 5 mins to go.
Great win.
The Pollard 3 was the big moment of the last quarter.
Swain then came up big with some catch and shoot 3s.
Melbourne solid from the line at the end.
Credit to Borlase and Rees for their very important minutes in the 3rd.
Evans and prior killin us though.
The Coe should have an extra 10 post players
Herb seriously has to use dunn, can't keep going with both prior and Evans. Split minutes use more Rees too.
Melbourne, Puoch, Deeble. Everyone else did nothing today.
Evans/prior/Rees 5 rebounds
Jade/kate/nya 25 rebounds
Guaranteed a medal well done girls. Now let's wait for keyboard hero’s try to recreate the wheel
Outstanding to come away with minimum silver without Potter
And with no price or any quality post players like previous u19s
Mento 37
Years ago
Anonymous are you just commenting for the sake of hearing your own words??
Learn the game champ - I'm sick of watching you dribble !! Pardon the pun !! You don’t know shit
Mento 37
Years ago
Great win GEMS !! 2 in the world !! Way to play - way to coach HERBIE
2nd in the world this tourney, think we are ranked 7th though.
With last 5 years success, maybe we get bumped up tom3rd or 4th.
#mento
Says the guy who thinks fiba will change the agers of players for tournaments to suite the calender.
Mento 37
Years ago
@ I asked a question about the age that's all - don’t try to put a spin on it.
Herbie out coached you here and you are SALTY.
Maybe you can put your hand up for the next junior team seen as though you’ve been watching since 2013 LOL
Enjoyed your commentary (to yourself) can’t wait for the GF and watching you comment to yourself yet again and look like a total TOOL
Lol, 37 an already got dementia, have you found the delete button?
You can't erase what you’ve posted. You say you know basketball but every third post has you asking someone else a question about the game or age or coach or player or play, history, future, fixture etc etc
R u trying to be the next koberulz or nostraballmus? Just a troll ... mentos, the shite stirer.
Mento 37
Years ago
Yep absolutely - sorry I don't live sleep and breathe stats.
You do understand the game isn’t based off stats. You roll with the game that’s in front of you.
Some great players will play games and stats will not show exactly what they’ve done.
I love your passion, I really feel you might be able to have a lot to offer to the game, maybe in a AC roll, just a thought.
Stop hating on Herbie ' LOL HERBERT’ ‘SHIT COACHING’ ‘THIS GUY MAKES WORSE DECISIONS THAN BUTER’ and be positive about this all.
The positives are
Making the final and medaling
Melbourne
Puoch
Deeble
Not being reliant on just one player
Poise
The oks are
Swain
Loughridge
Borlase
Prior
Pollerd
Ball movement
Defense
Urgency/tenacity
The negatives are
Evans
Rees
Not playing Dunn or Morgan
Herberts unwillingness to change lineups and minute distribution
Post play
Free throw and 3 pt shooting %
Turnovers also a negative at 18 a game and rebounding has been the biggest negative mainly due to effort, size, strength, athleticism. Kone had 19 boards by herself, hussein 13, betts 12, Ejim 11, buzzeti 10.
We need rebounding and Dunn was the best aussie rebounder at nationals. Simply swapping 1 of prior, Evans out for her would be beneficial in s5
Red84
Years ago
Big congrats to our girls! Playing in the gold metal game. For many this will be the pinnacle of their playing careers. There is like - zero expectation - that this group will take out the USA. However you never know. It is the gold metal game and there like making history to motivate you.
So we have a re-run of the 2019 final! In 2019 we had the gold in the bag until the ref pulled an unsportsmanlike foul with less than a minute to go. Despite the tragic (for Aust) ending the 2019 final was a grand contest. What encourages me is that in the 2019 tourney we played the US in an earlier pool match and got comprehensively beaten. Just like the 2021 edition. What turned things around in 2019 was a change in coaching tactics - learning lessons from that earlier defeat and having a playing group of sufficient skill to implement the new approach. That said, the 2019 team was a better team that the 2021 group - there is no equivalent in 2021 to Shyla Heal among our guards, nor Anstey among our bigs. Still I would argue that the US team is not as strong either, particularly the quality of their guards is not as good. But the US bigs are much better this time around and that will likely play a big role in the outcome.
You can guarantee they'll play atleast 1 senior opal game.
2019
Heal pg
Shelley cg
Potter sf
Anstey c
2021
Deeble pg
Melbourne cg
Swain sg
Puoch sf
Swain & Deeble don't belong on that list yet, imo
Puoch and Ezi will be a great combo for the opals. So much to like about Melbourne's game.
Hoopie
Years ago
Very well done, girls' and I’ll be watching the game and supporting you.
(Playing for GOLD in spite of everything that was said was wrong with you and your coach)
I believe Melbourne's decision to turn pro will hurt her in the end. I think taking advantage of the college system for a few years playing against players like those on the USA tram will make her heaps better. WNBL was in a bubble and had no imports last year where her and Shyla shined. We all saw what happened with that. When imports come back and the leagues raises the overall talent it’s going to be hard to get the reps. Going from being able to train daily and play multiple games a week just can’t be replaced by a WNBL schedule.
I disagree, I don't think college makes much of difference. Some players who are stars get tied up with college life and basketball suffers.
We need elite trainers here in Aus on top of pro teams and state teams.
What's the difference between Melbourne and Potter decision to turn pro?
Bob Bobalina
Years ago
the inside word from camp is Dunne is healthy and can play, the coach won't play here.
Don't take the kid in this climate to sit on the bench could cost her long-term. Opportunity provides confidence stop wrecking the kid's confidence and give her a chance you knob coach. CEO Coach should know better. USA by 18.
Bob they are playing for Gold. Shove your political agenda up your bum loser
Hate to say it but I agree with bob. Dunn averaged 11 rebounds a game at nationals and atm we are playing both prior and Evans together. We have been killed on the boards by those 2 positions opponents every game bar 1.
I get it, Herbert has stuck with his lineup but to play Dunn no minutes at all is puzzling.
USA killed us on the boards in pool play, biggest issue atm.
Evans was a -36 against usa, I've never seen that in my lifetime.
Deeble
Melbourne
Swain
Puoch
Prior
Loughridge
Morgan
Borlase
Dunn/Pollerd
Evans/Rees
Senior n.t has real problems going forward in the post.
We have only 5 players over 6'4 as opals or players with opals potential.
Smith 96
Scherf 96
Aokuso 98
Magbegor 99
Anstey 01
Cambage, George, Tolo dont have long left.
In college, very few Aussie post players over 6’2
Hopefully greenslade and locandro continue to improve.
Bob Bobalina
Years ago
I have lots of other stuff up my bum also, you uneducated basketball twat. The standard outside the US team and the game quality is terrible. not playing the whole team is a disgrace. you cannot compare puoch to Ezi and wtf did someone say Anstey for Opals call me an ambulance I just broke a rib, she averaged 2 points a game in BigV.
Last but not least red 84 - it was an unsportsmanlike foul, maybe watch the overtime portion when Scanlon jacked up 3 shots that allowed them to penalize us at the other end.
the difference between potter and Melbourne turning pro ..... nothing nether will make the WNBA. lol
Bob, the anon said Puoch and Magbegor as a combo in the frontcourt. Didn't say they were the same type of player or level.
Early days and I'm sure everyone has differing opinions but future n.t looks to me like
U25 players
5’6 Heal
5’11 Wallace
6’2 Puoch
6’4 Magbegor
6’4 Aokuso
5’6 Rocci
5’10 Melbourne
6’1 Potter
6’4 Smith
6’5 Scherf
Extras
SG/SF Quite a few options here and in college
PF Minimal options here and in college
Hopefully Horvat makes a giant offensive leap this year.
Boards killed us but Silver is a great achievement for this group! Potter is a huge out. They did us proud this week for sure
53-34 rebounds.
Really poor by Herbert not changing it up in the post.
Potter would help.
Sucks dunn didn't even get a chance.
Silver a great effort
Hungary will have a strong senior team in 4 years with juhasz and hatar
Hopefully York doesnt have Evans and prior together.
06/07/08 gems 2026 (new gems coach)
07/08/09 sapphires 2024 (new sapphires coach)
04/05/06 gems 2023 (D.Herbert again likely)
05/06/07 sapphires 2022 (T.York again likely)
02/03/04 gems 2021 2nd-silver (D.Herbert)
03/04/05 sapphires 2020 cancelled due to Covid (T.York)
00/01/02 gems 2019 2nd-silver (D.Butler)
01/02/03 sapphires 2018 3rd-bronze (S.Seebohm)
98/99/00 gems 2017 6th (D.Butler)
99/00/01 sapphires 2016 1st-gold (S.Seebohm)
Our current world ranking of 7th. surely we are top 4 now.
Red84
Years ago
Coming second in the world is a good result. Remember folks, for every Aussie girl playing hoops there are 52 american girls playing! Expecting Australia to beat the US is a bit like expecting Florida to beat the US. So - well done - our girls took out solid opponents in Canada and Mali. And looking at Brazil, Argentina, Russia and Spain our team was clearly superior. So good effort to all.
If u17s go ahead in a few months.
Deeble
Swain
Borlase
Puoch
Prior
Loughridge
Brazel
Bowyer or Simons
Dunn
Evans
Heal or Fakalata
Dunlop or Whatley
I played college ball and anyone who thinks it's a waste doesn’t realize that basketball for women is only lucrative for Less that 1%. So experiences are the reward. Being in a college environment to have fun. Learn to be a professional. Experience life with no true responsibilities and make lasting memories and friendships oh and get an education for free is the currency that actually makes it all worth it. I think it’s funny that people say college is some how not a good option when that’s what makes the USA women’s program so dominant. Why would you not go train and play in the enemies back yard to see what they do and learn how they think and compete with the best players your own age? It’s like turning down an opportunity to apprentice with Bill Gates to shadow a Maccas employee. Tell me who are the Boomer’s best players and how many of them didn’t go to college. The best under 23 competition in the world for women is the IS college system.. so yeah don’t go play in that stay home and play against mediocre talent that won’t push you. Let’s continue to tell these kids not to go and we will see where the Opals are in 2032.I’ll see you back here.
Red84
Years ago
Concerning our poor rebounding performance. Two things to note. First - and most obviously - the US have significant height advantage inside with the 6-7 Betts, Ware 6-5 and DeBerry at 6-5. We have nothing to match that. Pollerd is our tallest at 6-3 with Evans and Prior at 6-2. Second the US offense game plan pre-positions their bigs closer to the basket to capitalize on their size advantage. A major task of our bigs was to set on-ball screens near the perimeter, between the 45s. If you pre-position slow bigs that high in the off, they will almost certainly get boxed out when a shot goes up, particularly against a well organized side like the US. Evans and Pollerd had good moments today because they have a decent 3 shot, which makes sense as an option because they are positioned far away from the hoop.
We got out rebounded by smaller opponents in pool play and finals, it's not just the USA had tall players.
740# surprising that almost all of the Aussie born wnba players never went to college.
Wallace/smith have been the only two
Heal, Talbot, Allen, Taylor, magbegor, jackson, cambage....
I can keep going.
We have beat America before.. stop acting like 2nd place should be our expectation. Basketball is a beautiful sport because the so called underdog has a chance. If our expectations are a silver medal then what's the point. If they had to play the US in the quarter final and lost you wouldn’t be saying awe yeah well that’s the best they could do. We had them on the ropes and didn’t finish the job. I’m not saying don’t be happy with making the grand final but don’t except the result as if it’s the best we could do. It’s like we always expect to lose to them and it gets on my nerves.
Have you noticed how many transfers or amount of players come home.
Half of them sit on the bench for 9/10 of the game.
Sure exp is good, new friends, doesn't guarantee good basketball player though
2016 we beat them, 2019 we would have but one flailing elbow.
Our senior team beat them 2 weeks ago... with no Cambage.
Yes please keep going.. you will run out . How many gold medals have those players won??? How many boomers didn't go to college and what direction are the two programs going???
I'll take your Aussie list and compare it to the USA’s top players who have more gold medals and championships then all those Aussie’s combined.. and they All went to college..
And the Soviet Union played college in the u.s for 25 years...
80% of the French and Spanish teams don't go to college,
College system is good if you play in a good conference, but 95% of our kids don’t.
So the question is why does the college system work for Americans and not Aussie's???
Just like the u.s.a, best kids go to the best schools. Our kids like smith stanford, Wallace, baylor were at the best schools.
Talent is the issue, depth. Strength in numbers, private trainers.
College is not the be all end all. More than one way to produce great players
Don't bite, it’s clearly a person that has a narrow view or business based around recruiting.
The trend clearly is no college unless you are a offered a high major.
Stay in nbl1 and work ya way up.
More facilities opening up all the time
Spain and France have not won any golds in women's basketball either. France also ranked 5th in the world behind us
Australia's problem is skill development. I’m sure it’ll continue to get better
Your wrong I have nothing to do with the US college system. I just think it makes no senses when we clearly don't have the resources in this country to provide a top level consistent competition for elite players in their 20’s
Nbl1 will continue to get deeper, have to be patient though.
You must not live in Melbourne? So many opportunities/pathways for young players here. Youth league to nbl1/big v to WNBL/NBL to Emerging Opals/Boomers, to Opals/Boomers. No need to go to Covid central
Red84
Years ago
anon 745 writes "We have beat America before.. stop acting like 2nd place should be our expectation. Basketball is a beautiful sport because the so called underdog has a chance. If our expectations are a silver medal then what's the point. If they had to play the US in the quarter final and lost you wouldn't be saying awe yeah well that’s the best they could do."
This is a text exchange not a detailed position full of nuance. I fully agree with you.
I think there is a threshold of mass beyond which a country can produce world beating teams. For instance, in the mid 90s Australia had fewer players of rugby union than the USA (which - as an aside - operates a college system) yet we were world champs and the US struggled to make the top 10. And we have had great teams in the past that were highly successful at jnr and snr level. But there are times when you have to recognize that your squad is just out-matched, like we have here. The question is whether this particular squad is capable of beating the US on a particular day? I say "yes" but it requires exceptional coaching.
If we had potter, price and a legit big. It would have been tight.
Deeble 8/10
Loughridge 6/10
Melbourne 8/10
Morgan - can't grade dnp much
Swain 5/10
Borlase 6/10
Puoch 8/10
Pollerd 6/10
Dunn - can’t grade dnp much
Prior 6/10
Evans 4/10
Rees 4/10
Even in Melbourne there is no way to replicate the competition, level of skill, and strength of every team that you would get even in middle school in the us.. I am strictly talking about the ability to provide an consistent every time you step on the floor against an opponent you are faced with a challenge and are pushed individually and as a team. And you get to play matches 3 times a week. In every state, in every city, in every town. That doesn't happen in any place. Mate we only play the best from other states once a year
Anyone who says a player would not benefit from being pushed to perform in a game, 3 times a week against talent that is just as good or better is not thinking clearly.
Mick
Years ago
Anyone who says a player would not benefit from being pushed to perform in a game, 3 times a week against talent that is just as good or better is not thinking clearly.
Red84
Years ago
anon 760 writes "Australia's problem is skill development. I'm sure it’ll continue to get better"
I could not agree more. Herbert has to fashion a game plan based on the capability of the players at his disposal. The habits these players form in decision making and in executing key skills are built up over many years - one cannot expect Herbert to overcome player deficiencies in such a short campaign. The old maxims are true - you learn more from your defeats than from your victories and that the seeds of future success are planted from lessons that are learnt. So, post defeat, here we are.
I have a couple of technical suggestions - I'm sure there are many others. First, the quality of screening executed by Aust jnr women teams has been consistently poor for many years. This was exposed again today. There are 3 problems. First the prevalence of "light contact screens" which is encouraged at a club level. The reasoning here is that the pick needs to roll quickly into the passing lane to accept a pass. In their haste the pick does not make solid contact with the defender. Against lower graded defenders you can get away with it. Against better defenders, who have length, foot speed and a will to fight through screens, it fails. They stick in a hand or finger in the passing lane, the incoming pass will be disturbed. Result - turnover.
The second and third problems concerns the dribbler - our guards consistently run too wide of the screener. It leaves too much room for the defender to slip through. This is really basic stuff that should have been trained in our girls years ago. Furthermore, and here I sound like a broken record - our guards will NOT exercise the option of "popping" off the screen - that is, using the screen to find an open position on the floor and putting up a mid range shot. For our guards it's either a death or glory drive to the basket or a poorly executed, disturbed pass to the rolling screen. You are playing the USA, not Estonia, the pop shot may be the best shot look the US will give you. Otherwise, continue to drive and you run into multiple tall defenders, get rejected etc etc. Credit to Herbert, I did see more drives off screens lead to kick out passes, that was an improvement to what we saw in our earlier matches.
Why does the fg and ft % remain so low if they are going to Coe?
Betts will grow to 6'8. Not a Griner or Cambage type though.
The nextu17 women WC, next year has 5 players over 6’7 in it born 05/06.
I remneber when the tallest centers were 6’3-6’4 and now most of the top countries are producing multiple girls over 6’6 in each age group.
Real issue for Aus in the future will be size in the post.
Atm, I believe we have only 2 girls 6’5 born 05/06. Metcalfe from wa and portlock from vic
Quite a few girls though around 6’3 like Juffermans, leasuasu, Williams, Ranson, bird, ajak and a few others.
Australia has to get away from this idea that if they are big and tall they are worth taking.
Every tournament, every Coe selection puts height in the post positions as #1 over tenacity and skill.
Japan has showed you don't need a big center to be effective.
Mobility and endurance is key along with the mentality to go after the ball like an Afl player.
Eg would be Maley. How can someone only 6’1 dominate the wnbl and nbl1 in rebounds
If you look at the Coe selections over the last several years at forward/center
Collins 6’5 95
Smith 6’4 96*
Froling 6’2 96
Froling 6’3 96
Scherf 6’5 96*
Aokuso 6’4 98*
Pizzey 6’3 99
Magbegor 6’4 99*
Mcspadden 6’5 99
Bourne 6’2 00
Cochrane 6’5 00
Hollingsworth 6’2 01
Locandro 6’3 01
Fuller 6’3 01
Hannan 6’4 01
Sewell 6’3 02
Goodchild 6’2 03
Rees 6’5 02
Wise 6’5 03
Prior 6’2 03
Evans 6’3 03
Gordon 6’2 04
Juffermans 6’4 05
Petrie 6’2 05
*Only 2 have made opals squad and 2 others have made an Australian camp out of all the selections they have made in just 6 years.
Only 5 have averaged over 6 rebounds their entire career. That seems insane,
You make a good point (Locandro didn't go to the COE, can take her off the list)
https://ucirvinesports.com/news/2019/9/23/womens-basketball-meet-the-newcomers-sophia-locandro
Magbegor, Aokuso, smith, Scherf will be opals for a while.
We still need 2 more quality posts and some reserves.
The next best 3 atm would be Anstey, Locandro and Greenslade, maybe Mcspadden or mckay
When you look back at the age groups, it's crazy how wrong the selections have been choosing bigs.
They seem to just choose the biggest or top scorer or top rebounder at the time. Years later they are down the list.
Hoopie
Years ago
Crystal balls are in short supply, but Scomo's working on it.
Maybe it's less about who they select and more about what happens to them once they’re there? No one seems to get better. Some leave hating the sport and stop playing altogether. Some leave hating it but find a way to keep going but it takes them a while to get back on track. Sherf is a good example here, the Kilsyth coach has had a breakthrough with her because she’s finally playing out of the post. Combine this with her 3 ball & playing D, now she’s a contender.
If I had a talented kid, I would not be letting them go to the COE - you barely play games, they’re unsupervised so bullying & shenanigans are rife. From what I hear it’s a pretty toxic environment.
Scherf has had a lot of individual training post Coe, tats why she has been so good. Was insane at uni games and playing great nbl1
Opals - essentially all we have post Cambage, Tolo, George
PF-6'4 Magbegor(99)-6’4 Smith(96)-? 1 unknown.
C-6’4 Aokuso(98)-6’5 Scherf(96)
capable reserves - 0 atm
6'2 Maley will be the unknown, someone who can play 4-3 or undersized 5 against a Japan or korea.
Anonymous
Years ago
If I had a talented kid, I would not be letting them go to the COE - you barely play games, they're unsupervised so bullying & shenanigans are rife. From what I hear it’s a pretty toxic environment.
There has never been a truer statement said on Hoops. It is not just a "Pretty Toxic environment" but one of the worst toxic environements adults would ever come across let alone young kids leaving home. as someone said The fish rots from the head down, disband it and take away their power.
It is tax payers money afterall rumours are a hard hitting ABC current affairs show is all over it. Memo to parents dont believe the sales pitch the coaches give you, they are not paid enough to care when the shit hits the fan, which it will, enough proof over at least the last decade. Watching the kids who have spent two years there sit on the bench whilst their COE coach was the assistant was both horrifying and laughable at the same time, Their full time coach wouldn't put them on, let that sink in
Red84
Years ago
The toxic climate you describe is concerning. That said, it is important to say that attendance at the COE does NOT guarantee a coveted slot on a national junior age team. I hope it is not promoted as such by those responsible for running it (as opposed to claims made by private coaches - i mean - do you own research).
My understanding is that the COE is one of a number of pathways to national representation. Another could involve picking up a sports scholarship in a major city school - which are becoming more common - and combine this with representing a metro team and attending SPP.
This is an old debate - how much should we centralize training at the COE vs directing resources at state academies? Life is complicated - kids in our community are in a myriad of circumstances - they may be in regions where there is inadequate training and competition; they may have disrupted parental situations etc. The "system" works if there are alternate pathways available.
Hoopie
Years ago
Agree, Red84.
I'd be interested to hear from current or ex-COE players whether it was stated openly, implied, or nothing was said about COE being the main pathway into the national teams.
It certainly seems to be (but then that should be the case if the best talent was selected for COE in the first place).
I do find it strange that Jade Melbourne has no jump shot at all. None, what so ever. Who is responsible for that, the athlete or the coaches? Would have thought that at least 1 of her coaches would have taught her a proper jumpshot, which kinda implies that she hasn't worked at it. It is quite strange how coaches always seem to get blamed for athletes short comings.
Guess if Simmons can make it as a pro with no jump shot then perhaps others can to.
Another example Katie Deeble 22.2% Free Throw percentage. Who owns that player, or development coaches?
It stands to reason that if the COE coaches are involved with the Aus junior teams as coaches/selectors, that they would be pushing for the kids they're working with to make the team. I know in the past the AIS HC’s 'yearly grade’ was tied in with how many of their athletes make junior/senior teams, not sure if that’s still the case.
Anonymous
Years ago
It is quite strange how coaches always seem to get blamed for athletes short comings.
The COE athletes have access to the facilities 24/7 and can train whenever they want, no sport science guys so don't overload them etc.
They have group sessions daily and one on one sessions with the COE coaches being Veal and Graham specifically. They have had zero to minimal issues with COVID and in fact stayed there when Vic went into full lock down. There are no excuses.
Jade has been there for two years, The vic country system didn't allow jump shots apparently so she has had two years with Veal to fix it.
Another example Katie Deeble 22.2% Free Throw percentage. Who owns that player, or development coaches?
See above answer, better to train with Rucker IMO
Both those kids would have made this team and performed without the COE, have they developed more or less being there in a basketball sense?they were already playing at the level they just displayed.Melbourne was given full reign when they played NBL1 when she first got there and nothing in her game has changed. She got the Gorris opportunity which was awesome for her stature in the hub last year but its the rare exception to the rule.
It stands to reason that if the COE coaches are involved with the Aus junior teams as coaches/selectors, that they would be pushing for the kids they're working with to make the team. I know in the past the AIS HC's 'yearly grade’ was tied in with how many of their athletes make junior/senior teams, not sure if that’s still the case.
They go out of their way to tell people it is not guaranteed but everyone knows the odds are stacked in their favour. COE HC KPI is def players wearing green and gold so the last two spots in this years WC team went to two girls who didn't play but the bonus will still be there for the AC
Anonymous
Years ago
also need to remember that like to Bro Dello post the COE womens coach is a "friend" either playing with or for nearly every one in the "jobs for the girls" pecking order at BA. Went to AIS with the boss and was coached by the other boss. The stats of these girls FT% and FG% are either the same or worse than when they got there when you use National level tournaments as a bench mark.
I guess one day they will employ someone at BA who would be known internally as a diverse hire, #METOO and #CancelCulture would have a field day if this privleged white system was in the USA
I don't think its fair to blame the coaches, its just a shit system. Most kids are better off with their families and playing NBL1. The AIS should be used for training and selection camps only.
Royba
Years ago
I enjoyed watching the Gems and was impressed with their attitude and particularly their defence.
I am not connected to anyone so I am objective about what I saw.
I was concerned about their level of individual offensive skills and the fact that unlike the Euro teams they do not set up outside shooters with penetration and had nothing run for their bigs.
I was very disappointed with coaches not even playing girls at the end of bench.
Those girls probably lost to the game.
Anyhow I think we need the COE except maybe if you come from Melbourne.
So Serious Question - if your stuck with it , how would you make it work and no talk about jobs for buddies please.
Like I've said a million times have a npp U20s team in each nbl1 conference, it solves almost every issue.
Nbl1 Boys and Girls
North u19 npp - 1HC, 2A, 1D, 12P B+G(15-19y.o) qld
East u19 npp - 1HC, 2A, 1D, 12P B+G (15-19y.o) nsw/act
South u19 npp - 1HC, 2A, 1D, 12P B+G(15-19y.o) vic/tas
Central u19 npp - 1HC, 2A, 1D, 12P B+G(15-19y.o) sa/nt
West u19 npp - 1HC, 2A, 1D, 12P B+G(15-19y.o) wa
5 times the coaches vs Coe
10 times the assistants vs Coe
An expert development coach for each conference - boys n girls(24 kids)
An expert strength and conditioning coach for each conference - boys n girls(24 kids)
An expert nutritionist coach for each conference - boys n girls(24 kids)
120 players developing vs 24 at COE
No leaving the family or friends for long period of time.
More games, better competition.
No biase, collective selections amongst all conferences staff.
Player selection made by those from the actual state and not from afar.
Etc etc
Once they reach 18 they can choose another nbl1 club or go to college.or get selected straight into pros from nppu19
Just look at the latest selections from Coe.
Gray(05), Clark(05), Petrie(05), Gordon(04), Juffermans(05)
Clark I understand(a big wing who can play all 3 levels), the others... probably would have waited till the next u18s/u16s in choosing 05s(the next sapphires). The gordon selection, an 04 undersized center that has barely played basketball at sqjbc level is puzzling.
Anonymous
Years ago
If you look at the Coe selections over the last several years at forward/center
Collins 6'5 95
Smith 6’4 96*
Froling 6’2 96
Froling 6’3 96
Scherf 6’5 96*
Aokuso 6’4 98*
Pizzey 6’3 99
Magbegor 6’4 99*
Mcspadden 6’5 99
Bourne 6’2 00
Cochrane 6’5 00
Hollingsworth 6’2 01
Locandro 6’3 01
Fuller 6’3 01
Hannan 6’4 01
Sewell 6’3 02
Goodchild 6’2 03
Rees 6’5 02
Wise 6’5 03
Prior 6’2 03
Evans 6’3 03
Gordon 6’2 04
Juffermans 6’4 05
Petrie 6’2 05
The reason only a handful of these have worked is that over 90% are lovely kids but lack for want of a better expression, Mongrel.
K Froling has it
Ezy has it although is a rolls royce and disguises it well
Prior has it although really undersized
The rest don't and that is your answer. Even Smith who sort of manufactured it found her threshold and wasn't used by her coach at the Olympics.
I dont know all the girls, but I have followed the majority closely and they are just good tall kids who have been scouted that they play small or soft
Anonymous
Years ago
Sorry Aokuso and Issy Bourne are both aggressive as well
Royba
Years ago
Great
All for it.
So do we form a committee?Approach Larry Kesselman?
Come on guys,this is possible
PS - I think COE still has a place for Country kids.Should Country take it over?
Aokuso is already in the Aus camp selection, probably get her first shot next month for opals in Asia.
Bourne is still young, 2 years younger than z, but unfortunately very much undersized at 6'2, which puts her with Froling, Garbin, Maley etc in which none have made the senior team.
Our n,t sfs are 6’2, Talbot, Allen, Blicavs, kunek and sandy plays none of them at pf although New York plays Allen as a 4.
Prior mongrel?
Froling has, Maley has.
Prior ain't going to average 17-24 rebounds a game in nbl1...
Anonymous
Years ago
agree 100% about Maley but she wasn't on that list of talls. Ok Prior was a stretch but it proves the point that perhaps the COE should have that box ticked before wasting all the development on tall kids who are never go to be a Froling or Maley aggression wise. Better off playing smaller ball with stretch 3-4's who do have it
Exactly right.
I'd prefer a 6’3 centre with that mongrel than a traditional 6’5-6’6 centre that you plonk under thebasket with little mobility.
We have been pulverised by Japan 3 times in a row by not evolving.
It’s either a 6’6-6’9 superstar like Jones, griner or Cambage or 6’3-6’4 super mobile athlete that can space floor and guard perimeter.
Brondello is old school, she just does t get it.
Opals and the Mercury have been the same since she took over.
George at the 4 and Cambage at the 5 have been the pairing since the beginning.
Arguably the 2 best performers in Tokyo were George at 5, Ezi at 4.
Guard played killed us, once again sandys selections of poor perimeter defenders and inability to stop slashers.
http://www.fiba.basketball/olympics/women/2020/team/Australia
Shows top performers were
George centre 16.5 (9 at WC)
Magbegor pf 13.5 (10.2 at WC)
Tolo centre 13.3
Next best, and a big drop off to
Mitchell pg 9.8
Ohea sf 9.3
Ebzery pg 5.8
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