Scout
Years ago
Dyson Daniels signs with G-League Ignite program
Dyson Daniels is said to be signing somewhere in the NBL, anyone know where?
Scout
Years ago
Dyson Daniels is said to be signing somewhere in the NBL, anyone know where?
https://twitter.com/TiptonEdits/status/1406702141176172545
Ball n hampton got 1.25 plus each.
Dieng - breakers
The only one we know for sure so far
Scout
Years ago
One of the messages picked up from the info session from JJ's last week was that they are now intending to get the next star....Roth had previously said they wouldn't.
Can hope it is Daniels.
Training with United for 3 years, you'd think that it’s them.
Less minutes in g league, incredibly stupid decision. Less money too.
More to this I reckon, nba trying to pull Daniels away from ns nbl is a giant blow to program for the future and others less likely to join.
KET
Years ago
That was ridiculous timing between the start of the thread and Daniels announcing he has signed to G League!
There's your answer scout
Just a horrible day for nbl.
When he's drafted, it’ll say nba ignite from.
Stupid, with ignite either 30+ mins a game or he's the backup getting 10 mins.
Nbl he’s getting solid 20-30 a game.
Top 10 in nba draft from nbl, top 25 through the g league
Eyes focused on you as a ns in the nbl program, now he's just another prospect on a stacked youth team.
Jacks getting a lot players saying no, wonder why. All eyes on Norton now.
Perth fan.
Years ago
Any other Aussie/kiwis prospects besides Daniels that may sign in NBL?
Nbl isn't the best path for everyone, neither is g league, overseas elsewhere or college, only time will tell what is. However if the argument is trying to get him drafted as high as possible then nbl also isn’t necessarily the best answer as seen with Hampton and his stock actually falling once his stint was done
Will cost him a top 10 pick in draft, more money, more minutes, more notoriety.
Really stupid decision.
Unless nba has paid him a million bucks to take focus off ns program, no legit reason to go g league.
Part of this is playing the results, if he does well over there the decision will be praised just like it would be if he went anywhere else, whereas if were to play poorly wherever he goes he'll get slammed
Why put yaself amongst 12+ guys fighting for the same thing?
Perth fan.
Years ago
Would have gotten heaps of opportunity on a shit team like Adelaide.
Good luck to him in the G League if he does well others may follow.
Doesn't bode well for the Next Star program.
ME
(he/kangaroo)
Years ago
This signing isn't the end of the world for next stars just as LaMelo Ball didn't necessarily certify the ongoing success of the program. But I think it's important that the program takes players who are somewhat ready for the NBL and puts them on teams that can justify giving them minutes and coaches willing to do so. Mojave King wasted his time with Cairns as he was ready to go but the coach didn't trust him. Terry Armstrong is a guy who maybe should never have been picked up.
Perth fan.
Years ago
Mojave Ķing still gets another go at Cairns.
Hopefully the new coach has faith in him.
RobT
Years ago
"Why put yaself amongst 12+ guys fighting for the same thing?"
Confidence, over-confidence, money, ego, ....? Lots of "why's"!
He just may figure that to show his skills v his opponents, he's a cert.
And in LaMelo's case, it would not have been difficult to reason that he looked good cos of what he had around him.
In fact, the only opp he had here was Hampton and Didi. While LaMelo's stocks went up, Hampton's went down. Guess Didi's outcome was fairly neutral.
1 in 3 up
1 in 3 down
1 in 3 neutral
*Terrence Who(was Armstrong or Anderson)? Doesn't Matter.
Who and how good is Dyson Daniels (for his name's sake, I hope he doesn't suck)?
Hoopie
Years ago
He will expect to get noticed a lot more in the G league, given the greater publicity and viewing audience around it.
As long as it's not another case of an agent over-selling the opportunity
He won't get the notoriety in g league because every g league player is an nba prospect .
He really fked up everything going for him. Whoever pushed him in this direction is an idiot.
Went from guaranteed top 12 pick to maybe journeyman g leaguer.
Unless he was offered an absolute truck of money, countering his reduced draft stock.
Cram
Years ago
I think a lot of people overselling the NBL here.
He's going to a league and system that is literally set up to develop players for the NBA and will have NBA eyes on him at all times, but he'd get more notoriety playing halfway round the world? Right.
Cram
Years ago
Its cute that people think anyone outside of Australia cares about the NBL
Cram, I'm not sure ya using ya noggin.
It’s what’s best for Dysons stock.
Do you think Giddey would be a top 14 pick if he went the g league route?
Cram
Years ago
Yes.
Would Hampton have fallen out of the lottery if he played Ignite?
We could play this game all day. How's Terry Armstrong doing?
You can argue the merits of each path all you like, but suggesting that playing in the NBA development league, for the team specifically set up to provide elite talent with a pathway to the NBA is a worse option for being seen than playing for a terrible team in the NBL - or NOT playing for a good team - or worse still, like Mojave King - not playing for a bad team - is absurd.
If King was at the Ignite team, even if he wasnt playing he'd have eyeballs on him.
Giddey get 3,5 mill first year + other benefits, Dyson dropping stock and he makes 2/3 of that without guarantees.
I think if you view the experts Twitter, they are a little baffled.
I see many people have drunk the Next Stars kool-aid.
It's an individual choice, don't think there's a right or wrong.
As for Cram's comment that "no one gives a shit about NBL outside Australia" - maybe casual fans don't but given the number of players that have gone from nbl to NBA recently it's fair to say NBA teams do keep an eye on the NBL.
There were two guys on the NBA all rookie first team who played NBL last season.
Torrey Craig getting rotation minutes in the western conference finals.
Make no mistake, the nbl is a respectable league and the players recruited to the NBA from there have been decent, except Terrance Ferguson.
I also think it's cherry picking to say Hampton stock dropped due to nbl.
The high school rankings never turn out to be the NBA draft order, things can always change whether you play g league, college or nbl.
I think nbl helped LaMelo stock, because people hadn't seen what he'd done in a "proper" league prior to NBL so he wasn't very high in the rankings. NBA teams were willing to respect the output vs nbl competition enough to move him up a fair bit.
Giddey stock also seemed to improve this year.
There are ups and downs and no guarantees if a particular result is because of what path they took.
Cram
Years ago
I never said Hampton's draft stock dropped due to the NBL, I was simply countering the idea that some people seem to have at how obvious it is that being in the NBL is better for your draft stock. Its not. #316 is right here in that its individual choice and every situation is different.
I also never said the NBL isn't a respectable league. My greater point is that it shouldnt matter what anyone outside thinks of it, it just has to be the best league in Australia. Putting guys on the floor for clicks and buzz at the expense of competition integrity doesnt help that.
" the players recruited to the NBA from there have been decent, except Terrance Ferguson"
Bowen?
KET
Years ago
" Putting guys on the floor for clicks and buzz" you mean effective marketing that attracts attention of casual viewers who provide an increase in crowds and associated revenue; and effective marketing that attracts sponsors who provide an increase in revenue?
You've haven’t really made any coherent argument to support your starting position of “I don’t like the NS program”, and you haven’t spent any brain power to appreciate the business aspect of it and their target market and how they get revenue and attract the right sponsors.
“I don’t like that clicky clacky thing and all those fancy people bringing in buzz”
KET
Years ago
I also think it's hard to criticise when a lot of the NS players are clearly better and more productive than a whole swathe of players in the league.
36ers were better with Giddey, Kings were better with Louzada, Hawks were better with Jessup, Ball, NZ with Hampton.
Prett sure Illawarra's crowd didn't benefit from Lamelo.
"Hawks were better with Jessup"
How do you figure that?
"Ball"
They won five games for the season.
KET
Years ago
Do you actually think Ball and Jessup were the worst players on their respective teams?
Why is it Balls fault that Hawks broader team had injuriy to their top import and a general bad team?
Didn't he get close to MVP?
They didn’t take minutes away from better players. They didn’t play time they didn’t deserve.
The teams were better for those players.
Same as Giddey - not his fault 36ers didn’t make playoffs. The team was better with him on the floor, the team was better the more minutes he provided.
Can’t go around criticising players that make their team better.
Going straight to the pro's instead of into college and developing can and often does backfire.
Ball was good enough to thrive immediately, same with Giddey.
But look at where it got Terry Armstrong.
He would have benefitted from going to college and developing more slowly.
Interesting choice by Daniels considering his ties to the NBL.
It’s not like the NBL hasn’t produced solid NBA players in recent years so can only think he’s been offered considerably more $$$
RobT
Years ago
Spot on, Anon, with this:
But look at where it got Terry Armstrong.
He would have benefitted from going to college and developing more slowly.
I've thought of him as a dud, but what you wrote makes sense. Should not have thought of himself as a one-and-done prospect in the first place.
Cram
Years ago
"" Putting guys on the floor for clicks and buzz" you mean effective marketing that attracts attention of casual viewers who provide an increase in crowds and associated revenue; and effective marketing that attracts sponsors who provide an increase in revenue?"
Didn't the Hawks go broke? Yeah, thats some cash cow there.
KET
Years ago
Hawks issues existed before Ball - talk about bad faith argument.
Didn't they receive extra revenue via improved sponsorship?
Just because Ball didn’t solve their entire issues it’s a fail?
Do you think the NBL doesn’t gain revenue wise out of the program?
The above is right one size doesn’t fit all, not all will work well here, but the program has been a success from a talent perspective and a revenue perspective and a marketing perspective.
Nobody says the program solves all the problems, it’s not going to solve word peace. But if you expect it to, to have a positive view on it, then you’re being frankly ridiculous.
Cram
Years ago
Thats quite a word salad.
Hawks crowds got even worse with Ball didnt they? Might have had something to do with spending all of their money on a guy who wasnt ready to help them win. Not really a way to engage locals.
But it got some buzz for the league, so thats obviously worth a team going broke.
KET
Years ago
WTF - how did having Ball send Hawks broke?
What world do you live in? Is it one where Simmons plays for Australia?
Cram
Years ago
Hawks pay Ball the money they could have paid an import to help them win.
Hawks fans see a team not built with any intention towards winning, rather giving an 18 year old free reign to put up numbers on a bad team
Hawks fans stay away
Hawks go bust.
KET
Years ago
Fantastic mental gymnastics you went through.
Only problem is NBL pays the wage, club pays accomodation/expenses.
They had a good import, he got injured
KET
Years ago
Love how Hawks have struggled for years, but it was Balls fault because they were magically going to be fine if Ball never existed.
Cram
Years ago
No mental gymnastics. They put a team on the floor that did not appeal to locals and they voted with their feet.
"Only problem is NBL pays the wage"
Do they? This seems to change depending on who you ask and depending on the narrative. Do you still believe the NS players are getting only 100k too?
KET
Years ago
" They put a team on the floor that did not appeal to locals and they voted with their feet. "
The locals hadn't been supporting the Hawks for years - the Hawks were constantly in trouble and getting bailed out prior.
The constant is Illawarra, not Ball.
But you’re blaming Ball anyway because that makes you feel better.
“ Do they?”
Yes, they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH89IdpERpw
4 mins in.
The g league is doing the dirty here, I bet Daniels left the ns option because the nba offered him more.
KET
Years ago
Yeah, NBL probably can't compete from a financial aspect to the G League
Cram
Years ago
"But you're blaming Ball anyway because that makes you feel better."
I'm not blaming Ball at all. I'm blaming the league administration for a system that values marketing buzz over competition integrity.
And where is this amazing marketing getting the league? a deal where most of the games will be shown on Stan Sport with their 75,000 nationwide subscribers.
They are trying to stop Americans come here, poaching aussie talent.
Maybe the only reason one has signed on is because he's from France.
KET
Years ago
Cram, you cannot argue the Hawks issues are because of NS program.
The Hawks issues are because of Illawarra - they had problems before the NS program was even a thought bubble.
LV
Years ago
You've been around long enough to know what's going on KET
Cram hates Larry cos he rebranded the Tigers, so naturally this means the entire NBL administration hasn't done a single thing right since then
Cram
Years ago
"Cram, you cannot argue the Hawks issues are because of NS program."
Not all of them, sure. But it was certainly the final nail in the coffin.
"Cram hates Larry cos he *killed* the Tigers"
Fixed, otherwise, true.
"so naturally this means the entire NBL administration hasn't done a single thing right since then"
There's plenty of reasons to dislike the way the league is being run, which I've been clear on for a long time and comes down to reduced opportunities for local players and unsustainable spending.
I've been complimentary where it was warranted. There just hasnt been that many instances of that (nor was there in the previous admin, or the one before that etc)
KET
Years ago
" There just hasnt been that many instances of that"
Plenty, obviously you have an inherent sooky bias about your precious Tigers name.
Tigers divided opinions and meant a single team in Victoria couldn't capture a broader market - with only one team at the time the logic is clear.
The risk of offending a few over sensitives to gain a lot of new supporters makes sense.
It would be like Port Adelaide being the only AFL side in SA. There would be a whole lot of fans alienated away - it made sense to start with an amalgamation team and then expand.
Cram
Years ago
Yep, I've heard it all before. End of the day the incredible businessman LK couldnt figure out how to market the oldest club in the country with the most recognisable player in league history as its main ambassador. What a guy
KET
Years ago
" couldnt figure out"
Who says it was worth figuring out? I don't think Australians care about the Tigers name as much as you think they should.
I don’t think the worlds best marketer could make Norwood or Sturt or Glenelg fans support Port Adelaide.
LV
Years ago
Given Phoenix are now here, it would've been better to keep the Tigers.
All the Tigers haters have somewhere to go ie: "South East" Phoenix, but the former Tigers lovers who couldn't stomach "United" (Eg: Cram and others I know) are now left in the lurch.
Keeping Tigers AND bringing in Phoenix would've had everybody happy. United and Phoenix obviously does not.
I guess in LK's defense back in 2014 he wasn't certain there ever would be a Phoenix, he couldn't foresee exactly how the next 5 years would pan out. It was no doubt in the back of his mind, but a possibility rather than a certainty.
LV
Years ago
And I say all of that as somebody who didn't mind the rebranding from Tigers to United, and retained my club membership throughout the first few years
Cram
Years ago
Pretending that a state footy league - up until 30 years ago the top tier in the state - is the same as the Melbourne Tigers having junior programs is a common theme brought up. This idea that people who hate the Tigers at Junior or State league wont follow them. Sure, I'm sure there's a few. Thats what *insert other team here* is for. But relatively few people give a crap about state league or junior league basketball and there's a world of other potential fans who don't play rep or care about it.
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