Luuuc
Years ago
(All times AEDT)
Mon 6pm Flyers-Capitals
Mon 8pm Flames-Lynx
Tue 6pm Boomers-Lightning
Tue 8pm Spirit-Fire
Wed 6:30 Lynx-Flyers
Wed 9pm Spirit-Lightning
Thu 7pm Capitals-Lynx (Foxtel)
Sat 3pm Fire-Flyers
Sat 5pm Lightning-Flames (ABC & Foxtel)
Sat 7:30 Spirit-Capitals
Sun 1pm Lightning-Flyers (Foxtel)
Sun 3pm Flames-Fire (ABC & Foxtel)
Caps will need to be better than they were on Sat to be successful tonight.
tip: it would have taken a lot less time to type wnbl.com.au into your browser than post that question
Gonna be one of those games where Cambage gets fouls for touching the air
Nevermind, it's gonna be one of those games where ANY flyers player touches air and it’s a foul
Another one of those games were te flyers are overated. 3-4 vet has beens...
Caps good so far but Liz about to take over this thing
Liz can't take over if she’s getting shafted by the umps as usual
The Cambage bias is clear as day just bc you don't like her doesn’t mean she’s fouling people
WHo said I didn't like her? I just don't agree with you. Maybe because you love her you're biased?
I thought the foul was there but whether you agree with it or not there is no excuse for backing it up with a tech
I don't love her, she can be whingey. I just think she gets fouls that aren’t there bc she’s tall and strong. I’d be frustrated too
Pretty sure tolo was in the charging circle, so foul wasn't there. She also put A LOT of Mayo on it
She has to adjust to the refereeing of the League, not the other way around. As all NBL Imports have to do and struggle with at first.
She refuses to, she thinks she should be allowed to play her way and everyone else has to adjust to her.
That's not how it works. At NBL, WNBL or International.
The circle only applies to players in the air...
God dam mitchell and Ohea have been crap so far this season
Cole has a good game then has a quiet one.
Blicavs has a good game then quiet the next.
O'Hea’s had a couple really good games. But seems she either plays really well or really bad.
Charging circle applies to anyone in the charging circle, not just in the air
On any penetration play situation into the no-charge semi-circle area a contact caused by an airborne offensive player with a defensive player inside the no-charge semi-circle shall not be called as an offensive foul, unless the offensive player is illegally using his hands, arms, legs or body, when
the offensive player is in control of the ball whilst airborne, and
he attempts a shot for a field goal or passes off the ball, and
the defensive player has both feet inside the no-charge semi-circle area.
AIRBORNE
Charge circle is not a license to smash a defender out of the way
Mitchell can no longer keep up fitness wise.
Melbourne and Rocci havegot around her with ease.
Mitchell's lost her speed. Wouldn’t mind chucking Conti on to keep up with caps young guards
'Currently, defensive players with even a foot inside of the restricted area are not able to draw offensive charging fouls when an offensive player is making a move to the hoop.‘
Nothing about airborne
#220 no it does not Einstein. NCSC only applies to an airborne player attempting to shoot or pass. If the player is on the floor normal foul criteria applies.
Chambers clearly a terrible coach, Mitchell has no stats. Put on Conti or even Oneill too.
Conti has been playing well when on but she's not given a chance. Really frustrating
Chambers and molloy should be fired seasons end.
Rocci Cubillo Melbourne Tupaea 47
Mitchell Cole Clydesdale Blicavs 7
#225 let me help you:
33.10. No-charge semi-circle areas
The no-charge semi-circle areas are drawn on the playing court for the purpose of designating a specific area for the interpretation of charge/block situations under the basket.
On any penetration play into the no-charge semi-circle area any contact caused by an airborne offensive player with a defensive player inside the no-charge semi-circle shall not be called as an offensive foul, unless the offensive player is illegally using his hands, arms, legs or body. This rule applies when:
• The offensive player is in control of the ball whilst airborne, and
• He attempts a shot for a field goal or passes off the ball, and
• The defensive player has one foot or both feet in contact with the no-charge
semi-circle area.
Luuuc
Years ago
Lynx today?
Flyers played their starters way too long. Why have Sara Blicavs and Bec Cole still out there when they have zero chance of winning?
Whether it was a foul or not, you can't afford to give away a tech because you’re unhappy when you’re that important to your team’s output. Thought the flyers guards were disappointing tonight.
Flyers struggle defensively. Lei has always been below par on that end and has taken a step back this year.
Liz struggles guarding pick and roll action and gets lost in no man's land quite often. Flyers end up giving up a lot of open layups. I had forgotten that Liz doesn't rebound well against better teams.
From memory Flyers just switched a lot last season, although you can't do that with Liz. They haven't worked out how to integrate a drop coverage.
Offense is mainly watch Liz post up which works against the teams without Opal level bigs although looks forced against the better teams that scheme for her well. The other players seem hesitant to create or shoot when Liz is in the game. Boomers and Caps also shut down the fast break game that gets the other players going.
Some interesting problems for coach Chambers and the group to work through.
Maley doing what she did in her junior days, eating rebounds.
Maley just needs a skill pe coach, if her dribbling and shooting vastly improves, she would be a sf for Aus in a few years.
Based on the last 12 months and the wnbl season so far, Early prediction for Tokyo, I've got...
Ebzery / 2 of Mangakahia or Rocci or Heal
Whitcomb / Nicholson
Allen / Talbot
Magbegor / Smith / George
Cambage / Tolo
I’m giving preference to Whitcomb after good wnba season and fact that Mitchell has had her worst year. Griffins injury issues and our depth at pf push her out.
Anyone disagree?
Who else deserves to be in the frame?
Luuuc
Years ago
Killed by that horrible first quarter :/
Gotta hand it to Nakkasoglu though. Great game by her.
Steindl a non entity offensively. Time to give Jessie Edwards the opportunity.
Given how terrible the guard lineup for Turkey is, you got to wonder why nakkasoglus not atleast the third pg for them.
Frustrating that the Lynx didn't change things up a bit. Bench players came on with impact but weren’t given much opportunity. Sharp and Clarke were smashed by Maley tonight. Garbin was good but needed a rest. Still think they play best when they get the ball through a few sets of hands. Too much iso going on
Marley had 5 points on 2/8 shooting. She rebounded well, but smashed is a stretch when someone scores 5 points
Boomers - Lightning What you think? Should be easy for Boomers or Lighting with fresh legs can upset Boomers?
+
Years ago
looking at the schedule Lightning have some back to back games to catch up - will be a challenge
ANON
Years ago
Flyers need to look at who is taking the majority of the shots, can't win games when only one player shoots the ball fouls and shoots her mouth off, Flyers actually play better with Liz OFF the court
Though most teams tend to end up that way
She fouls constantly and uses her size as an excuse for it
So can small guards who get hooked on screens or get their hands caught in the cookie jar also use size as an excuse
Caps are a well oiled machine and have had months of prep not like the rest of the league teams also ... and it’s showing
Agree with 248, Marley needs some more skills to really compete at this and the next level, hustle alone is not enough.
Agree with 248, Marley needs some more skills to really compete at this and the next level, hustle alone is not enough.
You don't have to score to be an effective piece of the puzzle. When an undersized player gets 20 boards that a smashing
Anon
Years ago
Flyers played their starters way too long. Why have Sara Blicavs and Bec Cole still out there when they have zero chance of winning?
But that seems to be the norm with both Flyers and Boomers , only got to look at what those girls who left Flyers /Boomers are now doing , Maley is having a great season so far, Reid too, given opportunities, then look at Conti, she left Boomers after sitting at the end of the bench and is still sitting there, same as Antoniadou, she sat for years on that rangers bench, stayed out of the league for a couple of years, come back in and is now still sitting at the end of the Boomers bench, both these guards put in any other team would be running the floor well, they are all playing the same level comp regardless of what team mates they have around them, and when your team is losing with your "stars" why not give these players the opportunity to show their talents.
Some of these young guns who have been left with no court time in the big named teams are now getting opportunities and they are paying dividend for those teams they moved too, maybe Chambers and Molloy need to look at those facts .
Perhaps management needs to look at Molloy and Chambers and realised they are subpar coaches in this league and they'd be better off finding new ones to coach their super teams.
Antoniadou was at the end of the bench in college too. She is ok for nbl1
Anon
Years ago
Antoniadou was at the end of the bench in college too. She is ok for nbl1
Lol Don't think being at the end of a bench for one year in college in a top 5 Div1 really means anything, most rookies unless they go to a crap college sit there for their first year,
She and Conti are certainly worth more than end of bench in WNBL especially in this season which is going to come down to who is left still standing
Chambers seems a little too concerned about keeping the veterans happy. Otherwise she could coach. Molloy is totally exposed without good imports.
Watched Jade Melbourne blow past Mitchell in the open court last night , Mitchells face almost had a look of 'there goes the Olympics'.
Anonymous
Years ago
There is more to Boomers that just Molloy playing favourites and developing, the assistant of an eastern club has half his side in their as well and he does the same. Nearly all these girls are medium pace at best and Conti and the other young talent and pace that was there but are now playing against them have burnt them every time.
You have to wonder about a coach who openly said a certain DOS (daughter of Shane) wouldn't be getting court time in his team.
He is thinking he is in his premiership window and playing for now whilst not realising the game has changed, they have no answer for pace and speed.
Southside looked the same last night, why would you keep Conti on the bench.
You can't coach effort I guess, there was a changing of the guard last night and there is more to come than just the PG position, the speed of the game is catching a lot of these current opals out. It shouldn't be a shock, they have struggled against quick Asian sides for a while now
Mitchell is overrated and is playing pretty average basketball to this point of the Hub.
On current form she won't be on the plane to the olympics
"Flyers actually play better with Liz OFF the court"
the +- stats strongly suggest otherwise
ANON
Years ago
Boomers assistant coach has half his NBL1 side in there, that's correct, but only two get court time one gets done, and the two that do are Opals so not quite what your trying to make it out to be LOL
Molloy is to hell bent on trying to get his tall ferns up to scratch , Beck isn’t a PG , the others are too slow, Farnworth needs to retire
But your correct in saying the game has changed, speed and agility from young legs is what’s happening out there right now, and if Molloy and Chambers don’t wake up to this they will both be left scratching their heads and having a "please explain" meeting when they return lol
Trouble for the opals is chambers and sandy love vets whilst Goriss and lucas are willing to play youth.
Which coaches decide?
Atm, the vet opals in the 1, 2 and 3 positions are getting beaten soundly.
Cram
Years ago
Lack of PG is really hurting the Boomers. Beck is a good energy player, but as said above is not a PG. They've got plenty of players that can hit a shot, and nobody to run the offense to get them good looks.
Anonymous
Years ago
They are simply channelling Beck which takes 2/3 of the court away, needs a point guard with both hands at speed. Crazy to think Conti left because she couldn't get on the court, it cost them finals last year. If D'Angelo were there, she would still be sitting; he is so stubborn.
The Boomers were predicated on being all of the victorian clubs when they changed the name from Bulleen. Nuna Tall Ferns and Southside Opals are getting their butts kicked by the next-gen. Good on the caps for trusting the young kids particularly after Talbot got Melbourne fouled out in 9 mins in the first game by posting her up. Really took guts to keep trusting her and she has repaid that faith in spades
Lightning a big chance tonight not sure why Melb so heavily favoured. Madgen looked on one leg Sunday, George doesn't look like she wants to be out there & Garrick still needs a few games to get back into rhythm.
Lighting by 7 my prediction
Conti left because she couldn't get on the court
Conti was the most overrated player at boomers, was on all their promotional gear but outside of playing in your face D is not much chop
Luuuc
Years ago
Yeah, her play in the past hasn't really warranted extra court time.
Seems to be making more of an effort this season not to disappear at the offensive end. Not a shooter but can still attack the rim or at least beat her man and force the defence to react.
Did anybody know that Conti also plays AFLW? They should mention that fact
/s
As usual the rules change game to game. Non facing screens all called as fouls first 2 rounds, but today legal to clear off a guard with your butt, illegally. Teams will never adjust when the refs keep changing their interpretations.
I'd be blaming the people teaching the refs not the group of 14 who made themselves available
Has Garrick always been such a blatant 'carrier' of the ball or is this new?
Why blame the educators. They made it clear from Game 1 that illegal screens were to be called. The referees did that. But today just a poor non-call allowing a big to clear off a point guard with her butt, which has been a Foul since game one. That's not lack of education that's just a referee who fails to follow instruction.
X
Years ago
Woosnam is ok. Peter Hooley is excellent, would like to see him do more games. Same with Andrew Gaze. Couldn't coach, can commentate.
The inconsistencies across all foul types lends itself to a shit show
ANON
Years ago
Lack of PG is really hurting the Boomers. Beck is a good energy player, but as said above is not a PG. They've got plenty of players that can hit a shot, and nobody to run the offense to get them good looks.
Madgen does well, but the only other real PG they have is Antoniadou and she's lucky to get two minutes of scrap at the end , Beck and Wright aren’t PGs neither really is Garrick but she can handle well ( yes she’s always carried, but then so does half the league , Wilson, Rocci, Heal Wherung, all carry the ball regularly LOl , rarely do they get that call, it’s now like the men’s game, but Garrick does some sweet passes , she’s fun to watch for sure
Adelaide have a heavy schedule coming up, while Boomers rest for a week , but Boomers play 6 games in 8 days in Cairns , if Molloy doesn’t start to get some minutes into his other 5 players who barely touch the pine he’s going to be screwed .
Can’t see them in top two, think they may struggle to get top four with such a heavy end season coming up plus travel
Flyers, caps, boomers, fire - finals likely
Flames, lightning - slim chance of finals
Spirit, lynx - over...
"Flyers actually play better with Liz OFF the court"
the +- stats strongly suggest otherwise
Flyers have been better with Liz off the floor so far this season according to the +/- stats. Exceptions are the Boomers and Canberra games where it looks like the team over indexed on Liz as a target.
you mean exception are the games where they needed production from her unlike the huge blowouts of flames & lynx where she barely played
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
Liz Cambage +/-
On: +29 in 125 mins
Off: +58 in 115 mins
Small sample size and plenty of noise in that data, but Southside have indeed been better (statistically) with Liz off thus far this season.
Seebohm is the next opals coach, no doubt about it.
Fire probably would have been a good side last year if he chose the side but instead he inherited brassards.
No they haven't, not when it counts. I don't enjoy watching Cambage on court but the reality is when the games are competitive she makes a massive difference. That +58 is inflated by what South bench did to the Lynx the other night, I bet if you changed that stat to when the game is within 10 points it looks dramatically different.
PlaymakerMo showing that reading some stats is easy but interpreting them needs at least a little bit of thinking
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
If you actually read what I wrote you'll find what's exactly what I was advocating: interpreting the +/- stats.
I just stated a fact that those basic (and obviously somewhat flawed) numbers technically support the claim that Southside have a better margin with Liz off.
364, if we completely disregard the Perth game being an anomoly:
On: +16 in 109mins
Off: +25 in 91mins
It was actually the game vs Sydney which had the biggest impact. If we also disregard the Sydney game:
On: +20 in 100mins
Off: -6 in 60mins
That's the result you were looking for, and probably closer to her actual impact - but still incredibly generous to completely ignore 33% of her games.
In reality, we'll almost certainly see Southside better off with Liz on the court over the course of the season. How much better remains to be seen.
The Flyers team we've seen so far looked better last season with Mercedes Russell in the Liz spot as a modern rim running big and defensive anchor.
There are potentially other factors like some players ageing into different points in their career and the hub format not suiting the veteran team although it's been ugly defensively all season.
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
Seebohm obviously has better talent to work with -- it's only a matter of time before he's the Opals head coach -- but Townsville are not 48 points better than Bendigo on talent alone.
Bendigo has been outcoached in every game. Disorganized and horrible decision-making, even from veterans like Lavey (29% from the field, 19% from three). I can't find a silver lining.
Teams need to be aligned with nbl ASAP.
Bendigo should not be a wnbl club.
Instead of having the breakers in wnbl, have the capitals, easy to change the other teams to nbl clubs.
Talent needs to be spread out with 200 kids in college atm with another 50 signed for 21 and 22. maybe 10-20% of those will be wnbl starters, backups, DPs.
That's 25-50 players needing homes in 5 years. Plus add local talent and imports to teams.
As a Perth supporter I really enjoy watching Townsville play. Their team work is top notch. Good to see Megan McKay doing well. They're superbly coached
+/- is the most unrealistic and invalid stat that must be ditched. The other 9 players' on the court affect +/- much more than the two players in focus. It assumes the 4 players in your team stayed the same, it assumes the other team was also playing the same 5 players all game long. The only time formula could work is when those two compared players play the entire game together, facing the same variables throughout the game.
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
"The other 9 players' on the court affect +/- much more than the two players in focus."
Huh?
Townsville and Canberra are by far the two best teams. Players on both of the rosters genuinely look like they enjoy playing together. They play as a team and aren't surrounded by selfish individuals.
As a Perth fan, they could learn a little from watching these teams. Lynx look disjointed and way to individual. Ebzery shot selection is terrible. Don’t think she’s following coaches instructions.
Ebzery needs someone next to her, burrows and Williams still learning.
Whitcomb clearly a gigantic loss.
You can tell that ebzery doesn't trust her team mates. They’re wide open but she’ll still drive it in to 3 defenders.
Still doesn't excuse some of the shots she’s taking. If the players around her are in a WNBL team but aren’t capable of making open shots then it’s pretty poor recruiting. At least 7 of them are pretty experienced.
When the coach clearly says in a timeout he doesn’t want them to shoot mid range pull ups 8 secs in and then she does it continually after that then there is an issue. Unless she has different rules but it sounded like he was talking to all of them.
The others arent contributing. This a learning season for most on tat side.
Townsville are playing an entire hub season at home, and in their own back yard. You would hope they look ok.
Canberra back2back champions.
Way to pick out two expensive rosters at full strength with big advantages, gutsy call
Lol Townsville one of the two best teams. also the only team playing an entire season of home games - just a small advantage
Luuuc
Years ago
Interesting to read the thoughts on Ebzery, as I've had a very different impression.
I've been pleased with the way she has been playing. Unfortunately there's just not much offensive firepower around her. She had a cold 1st quarter the other night, and that might ultimately have been the difference
Garbin has stepped up very well, but Steindl hasn't found her shot. After that there's Ciabattoni plus a bunch of eager young players whose shot selection hasn't been great - which is all part of the learning process for them. Sharp shooting 27%, Clarke 31%, and I'm guessing we would have anticipated getting more from Isenbarger & Parker-Williams.
Ebzery is pushing the envelope and IMO it's good for her (and therefore good for the Opals too). Pretty much every player is pushing their envelope, which is why we are inconsistent and we lose our close games. But it's beneficial individually, and I think this season is one of learning & developing for this team. We were gone as any type legit threat once Whitcomb & Allen pulled out.
They are all living there. Not really a home court advantage, certainly not now. Canberra are definitely stacked but so are Melbourne and Southside and there chemistry don't look nearly as good as Canberra or Townsville. Perth don’t look like they are a great "team" and lack chemistry. Would also argue Perth’s top 7 have as much experience as most of the teams. Opals, seasoned pros, multiple championship winners, top D1 athletes, COE athletes. Just an observation. Hence why they have only beaten Bendigo who have the least talent.
Townsville don't have the most talent, but arguably the best "team" in the comp at the moment. Watch them work on the defensive end, every player contributes and they all trust each other. Sign of being very well coached
Perth next year?
Ebzery/Burrows/Williams(dp)
Whitcomb/Ciabittoni/Atwell(dp)
Import/Clarke/Williams(dp)
Garbin/Allen/Isenbarger
Import/Mckay/Edwards
Not unless someone wins Lotto and pays for all of that
Got to go somewhere, all teams will end up with simliar talent next year.
Just think what might have been if Andy Stewart had given Shyla Heal more opportunity when she was at the Lynx.
If you understand the definition of +/- then you'll know it is more about who is on the court with you than you. There are 9 other players that influence the points differential. Your +/- will be much better than usual if you are on the court with Curry, Hayden, MJ etc. playing against your usual D3 opponent. Sorry for the extreme example, hope it helps.
read the second paragraph
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/7551067/nba-utility-plus-minus-statistic-espn-magazine
Be interesting to see what york can do with sapphires next year if WC goes ahead.
Seebohms junior n,t record is WC 16' gold u17, 17’ asia u16s gold, WC 18’ bronze u17, 19’ gold uni games.
2019/2020 fire season with brassards chosen side
2020/2021 fire?
21/22 fire with possible imports.
Anon
Years ago
Please . Please tell me this is Molloy's last year of coaching!!!!!!!
He is very good at having a team of great players and coming up short.
I won’t be a member if he is still coaching the Boomers.
What excuse will he use this season?
koberulz
Years ago
I think I ended up watching about three quarters between the two games last night. That was atrocious.
ANON
Years ago
few hours ago
Please . Please tell me this is Molloy's last year of coaching!!!!!!!
He is very good at having a team of great players and coming up short.
I won't be a member if he is still coaching the Boomers.
What excuse will he use this season?
Think he has still another year to go, why only heaven knows, he’s a poor coach and uses the club as his training venue for his tall ferns, how the board have allowed this when they promote they are a "Melbourne" club again is a mystery , how the league has allowed this is also another great mystery lol
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
397, my confusion stemmed from your assertion that there are 11 players on the court, and +/- measures the impact of two players...
Why are you trying to explain to me what the measure is? I'm well aware of its limitations, and have only used it as a discussion point. There really isn't anything controversial in what I've written.
Putting the Lightning into lockdown after playing 2 games already was ridiculous. If any were infected the whole league would have been brought down. Made no sense at all.
Except it was the law in Queensland introudced once SA had an outbreak.
The the Capitals (1st game) and Lynx (2nd Game) should have been put in lockdown with them after playing them as they would have been exposed. Then Townsville should go into lockdown because they played the Capitals before Adelaide was sent into lockdown. I get the lockdown but if you're going to do it right - then make sure anyone and everyone that was in contact with them were dealt with the same blow.
#415 you're wasting your time as some people just don't get it
People get it - maybe Qld doesn't understand how contagious this virus is. Or maybe they are just screwing Adelaide over.
Yeah the Lightning are so good for the benefit of Townsville they put them into quarantine
Luuuc
Years ago
Today's Lynx-Flyers game has been added to the ABC iView schedule.
Exciting news for connoisseurs of blowouts who don't have Kayo.
koberulz
Years ago
This season really isn't convincing me that the WNBL is worthwhile. There have been what, two or three competitive games? Several 30-40 point blowouts.
It's not evenly balanced teams.
It just has to be takenover.
KR it was a stupid idea to condense it into 6 weeks. If they were patient they could have had a much better product over a long period of time
Sorry ladies back to the kitchen. The whole league is worthless because some games are one sided.
Feel free to stop posting about it then koberulz, you won't be missed.
ANON
Years ago
In a normal season most teams have a week between games, Adelaide had one of the best pre season prep of all teams , caps and Townsville the same , so a week in quarantine after two games played , with access to gym and training facilities is not and should not be the cause of the blow out last night , they were simply out played, it's called sport
But can anyone tell me WHY every Southside game ends up on main stream TV, they already had 9 of their scheduled 14 games on Foxtel , now the few that were on KAYO are now on ABC view as well
Talk about favouritism, it’s so blatant too, almost every WNBL post covers someone or something from Flyers, Gerry Jayco must be pouring money in hand over fist lol
No one really wants to be watching Bendigo, do they?
ANON it's called business. You run with the best teams on paper. Had a look at the AFL draw lately? The bias of Friday night games? The TV Scheduled bias towards the bigger supported Melbourne Clubs? Kayo/Foxtel is a business only interested in maximizing ratings. Saying that so is the WNBL, hoping for continued coverage. It's not difficult to understand.
Luuuc
Years ago
Roster disparity seems to increase every year, but I think what exacerbates it this season is the hub schedule and resulting mentality.
There's less incentive than ever to fight it out hard if you get behind. Coaches don't want to push their starters too hard for a slim chance at winning if they know it will harm their chances in the next game a day or 2 later.
Being out of the spotlight of a normal game with a normal crowd probably also makes these games feel more like a training run with not much at stake.
No imports = more young players = more focus on development rather than winning too.
Result is a lot of real garbage games this season. This is yet another :/
Let's not even have league seems like a bit of an overreaction though.
peter hooley a much, much better commentator. thank goodness
Mitchell with by far her best game, eventhough she's about against burrows and Williams.
Needs to perform against Rocci, Lavey, heal, Madgen though
Roster disparity in 2020 can be attributed to Covid unfortunately, except Bendigo. Both Perth and Adelaide are without two elite players each, that hurts when you don't have the depth or money of Southside. Both clubs appear to be run on a shoestring, so without the likes of Whitcomb and Smith they were always going to struggle.
Adelaide are just unlucky with smith and Wallace injured.
Perth without Whitcomb and Allen.
Bendigo just plain sucks, no cash.
Flyers hate a close game, they either thump teams or get thumped
ANON
Years ago
No imports = more young players = more focus on development rather than winning too.
Don't think Molloy or Chambers got that memo Luuuc
Southside and Melbourne Boomers, they don’t develop anyone , well other than the tall ferns for NZ in Boomers case haha
It's not a development league. Coaches don’t get paid to develop at this level
Whitcomb makes Lynx better for sure but they aren't really losing much without Allen. Lynx should have signed McKay. That is the one that got away. Great role player who works her tail off and is happy doing the grunt work.
Ain't losing much, Steindl, edwards, isenbarger, hoycard havebeen terrible.
ANON
Years ago
They are all living there. Not really a home court advantage, certainly not now. Canberra are definitely stacked but so are Melbourne and Southside and there chemistry don't look nearly as good as Canberra or Townsville. Perth don't look like they are a great "team" and lack chemistry. Would also argue Perth’s top 7 have as much experience as most of the teams. Opals, seasoned pros, multiple championship winners, top D1 athletes, COE athletes. Just an observation. Hence why they have only beaten Bendigo who have the least talent.
Townsville and Canberra have had a huge advantage over all the teams, the exception being Adelaide, Canberra have had most of their players except furvRocci in Canberra all playing and training together for months
Townsville pretty much the same and if they haven’t been in Townsville they have been playing in the QBL and are very acclimatised to the heat and humidity
They also haven’t had to travel the first part of the season, Townsville staying in Townsville , Canberra in Mackay
Canberra are also a team that retained most of its players
Like Boomers but Boomers players over half met them up in quarantine so abs no pre season training
#495 Townsville's first game was against Perth in MacKay. Nice work mate
I heard Lynx couldn't afford McKay?
Who are the 7 Perth players with experience?
Sharpe 6 games
Clark 6 games
Edwards 2nd season after DP last year
Burrows 19yr old
Williams 19yr old
Williams 19yr old
Hoycard 20yr old
Isenbarger 23yr old
They only took 12 players yeah?
Edwards 25
Clarke 20
Ebzery 30
Sharp 23
Steindl 31
Ciabittoni 26
Garbin 26
Ebzery - Opal
Garbin - potential Opal
Steindl (Standish) - been in WNBL for a while
Isenbarger (Grant)- been in WNBL for a while 2nd stint at Lynx
Edwards - been in WNBL for a while with a college stint in between
N Williams,J Williams and Burrows have been in squad for 2-3 years without much development
Sharp - would have been in WNBL except for a college stint
Ciabattoni - been in WNBL for a while with different clubs
James Harvey fan
Years ago
I felt for Bendigo after that loss. Lavey and Ernst had great games but the other starters put up 2 between them.
You have to wonder where that first W is going to come from.
Baller
Years ago
'Not really a home court advantage' is the one of the biggest lol’s I’ve read on here for a while
Tell that to the 7 teams away from their families for the season
It might not be the normal home court advantage for Fire - but it’s clearly a way bigger disadvantage for the 7 road teams being away from family, loved ones, work for so long
Some people shouldn’t be allowed to access their parents wifi
Baller
Years ago
Credit where it's due, naming 3 19 year olds as 'experienced’ almost topped it lol
Thought Bendigo had that tonight, tess and Carly almost got it done by themselves
Talbot best player in the competition after Liz?
Nicholson all round atm imo.
Adelaide have only played half te games,
Of course that was going to happen to Perth tonight, the coach had to rest his players. Flyers stacked with depth and young ones got a run in for Lynx. Good for them. Hopefully they got something out of it.
But I still don't think Perth’s core of 7-8 experienced players (basketball experience, forget age) play well as a "team". Maybe it’s the system? Just observations made of shot selections, huddles, timeouts etc. My opinion only. That’s what these forums are for right?
I think they look ok, just missing a superstar to put the ball in the hole (probably why they signed Whitcomb)
Also only team with a new coach, should look rusty at times in this environment
Mad hatter
Years ago
Hard when O'hea, Mitchell, Blicavs all have to take a back seat to the Cambage show. One of those could challenge for MVP without Liz
Like conti when she gets a run, gives them some speed a defense they’re older players don’t give them
Even though the Lynx copped a thrashing there was a lot to like tonight. They moved the ball well in offence. Good to see Sharp, Isenbarger, Burrows and Edwards step up
Lynx offence was built for Sammy
Would have loved to see this system built for Whitcomb with Whitcomb in it
Some really good players possibly available next season.
Whitcomb
Smith
Wallace
Seekamp
R.Allen
Kunek
Bishop
Planeta
Wilson
M.Allen
Dangelo
+College
Mangakahia
Anastasieska
Bibby
Dufficy
+imports
Thought teams only allowed 12 players in the hub? How did flyers get Giliam to play, when previously ONeill played as part of the 12??
Half way through season...
Will no doubt chAnge by the end.
Mvp - Cambage
Youth - Rocci over heal
Defensive - Talbot over Nicholson
Rookie - Mckay
Sixth - Reid
Most improved - Ernst over scherf
Coach - seebohm
All star 5
Pg Madgen
Sg Nicholson
Sf Talbot
Pf George
C Cambage
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
Mvp - Madgen (but eventually will be Cambage)
Youth - Heal
Sixth - Reid
Coach - Seebohm
All star 5
Pg Madgen
Sg Wilson
Sf Talbot
Pf Blicavs (Sara)
C Cambage
hard to tip now considering its more than 2 weeks away before they play each other
Luuuc
Years ago
Just think what might have been if Andy Stewart had given Shyla Heal more opportunity when she was at the Lynx.
Shyla Heal isn't the only player Andy Stewart shafted. There’s been many a player that has been emotionally scarred from their time under him
Luuuc
Years ago
Shyla Heal isn't the only player Andy Stewart shafted.
Impressive turnaround for Perth right now after last night. Still leading Caps part way through the third.
Luuuc
Years ago
Pity it's back-to-back. Fatigue gonna kick in.
But yeah, impressive so far since that ugly 1st quarter.
Massive 3 by Melbourne after a massive charge by Tupaea
Huge respect to Perth for that awesome effort. Unlucky to lose that one
Luuuc
Years ago
So close. Caps with some clutch threes down the stretch.
Awesome effort from the Lynx though. 1st quarter was a shambles but excellent after that. Noticeable improvement, especially at the defensive end.
Gee big non charge call of Tupaea. Perth should've had that one
Does Tom Maher get paid by the league to whinge about everything for 2 hours or does he do it for free?
Tom Maher just tells it as it is - not so much bull as most of the other commentators . Insightful.
Tom Maher is the worst commentator for the promotion of the WNBL. He's also not at all insightful, he is still living in the 80s style of game. The sport has long gone past him, I muted the broadcast by halftime, couldn't handle his personal attacks and negativity.
#629 yes the personal attacks were unconscionable especially when he doesn't know what each teams game plan or players delegated role is
Anon
Years ago
"Shyla Heal isn't the only player Andy Stewart shafted. There's been many a player that has been emotionally scarred from their time under him"
Stewart doesn’t hold the monopoly on that, quite a few coaches still coaching have been the cause of many a good player to walk away from the game, or lose their confidence.
#605 #609 You might want to download the vision and have a good look at where the initial contact occurs. This is not a charge
Luuuc
Years ago
Tom Maher just tells it as it is - not so much bull as most of the other commentators . Insightful.
#640 I've watched it back quite a few times still looks a charge to me. What's your reasoning for it not being a charge?
Is there a reason Melbourne have 7 days off at the moment? Only 1 game for the round while everyone else has 3 or 4?
#684 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyzFItTLDO0 at 1.36 when the initial contact occurs the defender has turned and the contact is on the right knee and hip which causes Number 4 to trip. The contact is not on the torso.
went straight through her. thats a charge every day.
You might want to look at point of contact from the lower camera. But I expect nothing less from an obvious Perth supporter.
I'm a flyers supporter but okay. It’s a very obvious charge you can’t just run into someone like that. Regardless, if what you say is true, it should’ve been a foul against Perth, resulting in a throw in and not the winning three pointer.
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
It's not obvious or you two wouldn't be disagreeing.
Was this reviewable, and does the WNBL have the capacity to do so? I believe one of the Perth players was gesturing it after the play.
I think we're only disagreeing bc the other person is a caps fan. Not gonna admit their team got away with a foul. Their is a third person also saying it was an obvious charge
I believe it would’ve been reviewable on the night but too late now. Unless they don’t have the review system at the Cairns stadium.
100% not a charge. Defender absorbed contact on right leg and hip, only turned after contact. The dribbler was driving diagonally away from the hoop and the contact didn't disrupt the offensive play. I'm 100% on board with a no call and before anyone writes about how biased I am I'm not a supporter of either team.
Luuuc
Years ago
I can't decide whether it was 100% a charge or 100% not a charge.
Looks pretty callable to me but on the other hand it's also pretty common to ignore it go when contact occurs in that drive-and-dish action.
I can commit to saying that Jade Melbourne was 100% clutch though.
Don't shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Even if they have IRS available in Cairns this play is not reviewable
Looked like one of those calls you expect as a defender and you go crazy as the offence. Some call it, some don't. If the shot misses that's a rebounder that's been taken out of the action.
Was she in perfect defensive position, no. Did the offence out of control cause all the contact and take out a defender, yes.
Probably didn't fit all the required criteria for an offensive foul but it's a very tough no call, even if the shot misses.
It's not a tough no call when the defender doesn’t have legal guarding position and the contact is on the legs and hip.
Can you show me in the rule book or the interpretations document where it states that when the offence is out of control all aspects of legal guarding position get forgotten?
You could argue she does have legal guarding position, moves laterlly and backwards as the rule allows to maintain that position and gets taken out by the offense.
That's why I'm saying you could argue both sides of the case.
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
I think you could argue the following for a charge:
1. Steindl is facing the player with the ball and established a legal guarding position just inside the free throw line;
2. Steindl moved backwards and laterally to maintain legal guarding position, which is allowed; and
3. there could have been contact initially to the torso, looking at the contact made by the offensive player's upper body and left arm.
The point is from the angles available it's not possible to determine #3 without any uncertainty. This is why it's not an obvious call, and expecting the refs to get it definitively correct is asking a lot.
Contact is with the right knee and hip. #3 cannot be argued. Blocking foul
Gets taken out isn't in the rule. Slides laterally and backyards to maintain and gets hit in the torso. Not the right knee and or the hip the torso. If she does not get hit in the torso she has not got to the spot first. Thanks for playing
Anon
Years ago
#685 Is there a reason Melbourne have 7 days off at the moment? Only 1 game for the round while everyone else has 3 or 4?
Boomers v Perth Sat Nov 28 cancelled in Adel Lightning iso schedule reshuffle. Have 6 games in 9 days in Cairns after Tues
F.3 Rule
The following game situations may be reviewed:
F.3.1 At the end of the quarter or overtime,
• whether a shot for a successful field goal was released before the game clock signal sounded for the end of the quarter or overtime.
• whether and how much time shall be displayed on the game clock, if:
▬ An out-of-bounds violation of the shooter occurred.
▬ A shot clock violation occurred.
▬ An 8-second violation occurred.
▬ A foul was committed before the end of the quarter or overtime.
F.3.2 When the game clock shows 2:00 minutes or less in the fourth quarter and in each
overtime,
• whether a shot for a successful field goal was released before the shot clock signal sounded.
• whether a foul away from a shooting situation was committed. In this case
▬ whether the game or shot clock has expired,
▬ whether the act of shooting has started,
▬ whether the ball was still in the hand(s) of the shooter.
• whether a goaltending or basket interference violation was called correctly.
• to identify the player who has caused the ball to go out-of-bounds.
F.3.3 During any time of the game,
• whether the successful field goal shall count for 2 or 3 points.
• whether 2 or 3 free throws shall be awarded, after a foul was called on a shooter for an unsuccessful field goal.
• whether a personal, unsportsmanlike or disqualifying foul met the criteria for such a foul or shall be upgraded or downgraded or shall be considered as a technical foul.
• after a malfunction of the game clock or the shot clock occurs, on how much time the clock(s) shall be corrected.
• to identify the correct free-throw shooter.
• to identify the involvement of team members, head coaches, first assistant coaches and accompanying delegation members during any act of violence.
THIS PLAY IS NOT REVIEWABLE UNDER THE FIBA RULES FOR IRS
Thanks captain obvious. It has been stated above
thanks for putting the full rules up. interesting stuff especially the last 2 minutes.
koberulz
Years ago
Was a good no call for mine.
Let's not even have league seems like a bit of an overreaction though.Did anyone actually say that?
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
It's a response to your comment:
"This season really isn't convincing me that the WNBL is worthwhile."
koberulz
Years ago
Perhaps.
I've never really followed the women. I'll watch the Opals at the World Cup and Olympics, I've watched the Lynx playoff games over the last few years, and I've caught the occasional WNBL game when I've been channel surfing.
I don't know many of the players (and the few I do know keep getting married and changing their names), I'm not particularly familiar with the teams, I know almost nothing about the history of the league, it's difficult to find any discussion or news online, not many games are broadcast and the NBL is on at the same time.
A few of those aren't the case this year so I figured I'd give it a go, but the games thus far haven't convinced me it's worth sticking it out long term.
The fact that Melbourne plays for Canberra hasn't made it any less confusing.
Tough blow for Townsville with Nicholson out. Hopefully she can play tomorrow
Luuuc
Years ago
I've never really followed the women.
I don't know many of the players (and the few I do know keep getting married and changing their names), I'm not particularly familiar with the teams, I know almost nothing about the history of the league
X
Years ago
A power outage in the middle of n ABC game...not a great look
I didn't realise they weren’t allowed to train, no wonder the standard is slightly down. Game back on.
koberulz
Years ago
Are they not allowed or is there just not time?
If you had posted that 3 weeks ago you 100% would have been offered a job commentating the Kayo games.I do know how to pronounce Ciabattoni though.
You need money to get quality players in the WNBL and Bendigo has hardly any to spend. Add to that being a regional town in the same state as the two biggest spending clubs and this year also add COVID, so hardly any training as a team. League needs 8 teams but current set up with no max payments or player point system is not sustainable. Expecting 2 clubs to drop out next season.
OMG worst call ever in the 3rd against Froling. So bad
Currently 8 teams of 13 aussies/kiwi. Total of 104 athletes.
We should have 10 teams imo, 6 Aus/kiwi (fixed 30-40k each) 2 marquee Aussie kiwi per side(no $ limit), 2 imports (no $ limit). 3 DPs. (Whatever the min is, (around 12,000)
That's 80 aussies/kiwis and 20 imports + 30 DPs Aussie/kiwi.
Teams should be
Perth
Adelaide
Tasmania
Sem
Melbourne
Canberra instead of nz
Illawara
Sydney
Brisbane
Cairns
The min is13k, the average is 33k, 120k at thehigh end.
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
Yes, and relying on benefactors is not sustainable.
Putting that aside, you're also proposing relocating several teams and starting up others. There are costs associated with this.
Then there is the uncertainty going forward regarding Covid, and how travel will be affected.
Again, who is paying for all this?
Relocation to bases where they are already established ain't too much of a burden.
Only Southside to United base, Townsville to cairns base would need to move.
New women teams Tasmania, illawara, brisbane have established bases already.
Perth-Perth, Adelaide-adelaide, Sydney-Sydney, boomers become sem, Canberra stays put.
You remove all the bs seperate admin and running costs.
Play the women before te men.
BA's current model and administration is unsustainable. The proposed model may and probably won’t work either but if nothing changes the WNBL will cease to exist within 2 years
Imagine Flyers without Gerry Ryan and Sydney without Paul Smith. Melbourne Boomers without the private ownership group and Deakin University money. Canberra without the money from the University of Canberra Union - and Adelaide without Bruce Spangler and his private ownership group plus allegedly substantial support from the coach. Most of the clubs are already surviving due to private benefactors - and major university marketing budgets.
"Only Southside to United base" - that place is not big enough for both Gerry Ryan and LK.
Just throw the jayco sponsor on te jersey and he'll be fine.
Relying on benefactors is how every single professional sporting team works outside of the AFL.
NRL rely on Murdoch. A-League rely on Lowry. You could say AFL rely on TV.
NRL and A-League also rely on big spending club owners for success.
All Basketball teams in the world rely on rich owners. We just are blinded by the AFL/NRL codes so we think big spending owners are the exception. They're the norm.
"They're the norm." - 100% agree - no different in the English premier football league. Same 4-5 teams always win and the rest make up the numbers. People there are used to that and hence why fans and commentators are not pissing on the low budget clubs as much as some seem to do here.
The solution isn't to have a go at Bendigo for trying to compete at a budget which works for them, and allows 10 Aussie girls to play at the elite level. The solution is to accept that someone has to finish bottom, and that's ok. We need more teams so Bendigo isn't out on its own.
"finish bottom, and that's ok". - that is the most sense seen here for a long time . Bravo!
More clubs not less yes please
The top afl clubs also have massive membership. Richmond play away all season and still had a profit. Eagles, magpies, crows, dockers, bombers, blues all strong financially.
Because of TV rights money. Without it they along with the other half already in debt, would lose money.
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
"Relocation to bases where they are already established ain't too much of a burden."
You can cover us then, yeah? Hiring staff, sourcing and managing volunteers, negotiating with stadium personnel, councils, stakeholders etc - ain't too much of a burden.
"Relying on benefactors is how every single professional sporting team works outside of the AFL."
Right, except WNBL salaries are increasing when they currently don't have an acceptable model for generating sufficient revenue, and costs associated with professional sport will only increase if there are Covid-related issues.
*Relying* on benefactors when the league might well be facing it's toughest challenges yet is foolish.
Anyway, I was mainly pointing out that 824's post was poorly thought through.
It is time to be grateful that 8 clubs still manage to put a team on the floor. Time to appreciate the huge amount of work being put in by a small amount of committed unpaid volunteers, and in some clubs that is likely to even include all the coaches, so the show can go on.
Anonymous
Years ago
I'll tell you what is hilarious. Shane Heal has all of a sudden found a voice because his daughter is doing so well. He is non stop tweeting and bagging anything Bendigo and any commentator that has been at Bendigo. This is the club that actually gave his daughter the minutes to show what she could do, it is so disrespectful, he is a full-on knob. On one hand, he says multiple times Bendigo is an NBL1 team and then tweets for the commentators to tell everyone how without Loz Nicholson they are a young team and her loss will be significant; which is Bendigo every game due to budgets. He says on his show he is a girl dad and he supports women and the WNBL and then shows his true colours when things don't go right for Townsville. What about he jus respects the girls who are busting their butts on the court because this was his daughter last years and also respects the lowly paid commentators who I think are doing such a good job working remote to the game. Flog for life, a leopard doesn't change his spots, just ask his investors
Anonymous
Years ago
https://twitter.com/ShaneHeal/status/1332552982987112449
Anonymous
Years ago
and he has deleted the tweet where he was bagging the crap out of Bendigo and Bianca Duff
What did he say about Bianca? I like her.. fresh, energetic, knows the game
Anonymous
Years ago
he was tweeting live, criticising everything she was saying and giving his expert opinion, "what about they say this, what about they say that" "we need an expert"
ANON
Years ago
Shane Heal is an embarrassment not only to basketball but also to his daughter with his off court behaviour, he's had his time in the limelight when his glory days with Gaze were in the spotlight. He needs now to STFU.... he’s got too much shady baggage on his back for anyone to even want to listen to him
His daughter can play, but she’s not the next messiah of basketball , and he’s just going to give her his bad reputation .
Fingers crossed she doesn’t take after him, but a few times watching when things haven’t gone her way was a little too much "daddy’s girls"
Bendigo have little to no budget , and a coach that is really way out of her depth , but they have a lot of heart that team
Allegedly he only allowed her to join the Fire because they were prepared to offer her the starting PG position. Good young player but an overzealous dad.
ANON
Years ago
^ he's your typical nightmare sporting father , and we have all seen what happens with them, either the kid ends up just like the parent, a right royal PIA or they end up estranged from that parent and/or giving the sport up
Zodiac
Years ago
As someone who doesn't see much WNBL I can't believe how good Heal's daughter Shyla is. Anytime I've watched the Fire she stands out at the PG spot and she absolutely dominated that quarter then. She's got a lot of her father's aggressive confidence that's for sure.
What I've seen this season she looks a level above the WNBL what would be her chances of making the WNBA?
James Harvey fan
Years ago
Very good. She's projected to go second round in the next draft and her stocks keep rising.
Yes Heal is good, got this diving lay up which looks unusual, at 19 massive future, height could be a concern the higher up the ladder she goes. Certainly knows how to take over a game.
Sydney look so un fit, good first halves to nothing second halves. Nicholson and Heal two Sydney girls playing elsewhere, can see Smith changing that now he owns the flames.
SamCro
Years ago
Sydney badly lack outside shooting which clearly shone out especially in the 2nd half scoring only 12 points in the 2nd Half! Their team chemistry looks awful at times & Mansfield looked particularly frustrated with her teammates shot selection at times. The jury is definitely out on Coach Frog Hibberd who at times looks out of her depth at the WNBL level.
Mitchell needs to go ASAP, so it's down to Lavey, Madgen, Mansfield, Rocci, Heal and Mangakahia for the opals.
Personally, I didn’t like Madgen as the backup at the WC. Lavey has rarely played more than 5 mins a game. Mansfield has defensive issues so I’d be taking 1 maybe 2 of the newcomers.
Ebzery should no doubt take the vet spot as a cg.
WC Ebzery in 2018 was allot better than Mitchell in 2020 Olympic qualifiers and 2019 Asia cup. Mitchell is sliding real fast, can’t keep up with te young guards and just came off her worst wnba season.
Also think chambers should step down as assistant for Seebohm.
Have Goriss, Seebohm and maybe veal.
Olaf should steer clear too.
Wondering if not seeing her wife and kids for a year is having a big effect on Mitchell's game. Might be judging her unfairly.
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