Just how much is Ron Green charging to 'develop' officials.
Does anybody know roughly how much BASA will make over 12 months with these large increases and not paying insurance?
It wasn't the local players who got them into finance and salary problems, but the kid paying high club fees and the interested family member will now be stung again.

Fu*k that. When does this come in?

It is in as of now! Released today and effective as of 20th October.So organised as usual.

It is in as of now! Released today and effective as of 20th October.So organised as usual.

Anonymous #54996

Scorers for Junior games are still made to pay for a spectator ticket I believe. Only the coach can sign in and get in free.

Strewth, that's expensive! Anyone know what other "independent" comps are charging (eg SA Church)?

Salvos on Monday night at the Dome charge $6.00 for senior players wih no team registration fee (it was $5.00 plus $85 rego) - and spectators are $1!

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Hope someone has warned all the people rocking up to div 2 and div 4 games tonight...

How to kill team spirit in 1 hit. parents should not have to make a choice regarding which parent should watch or not. Each junior player should be allowed to for 1 price spectators. Do parents have to pay to watch junior footie, netball, soccer?

when was the last time you had anything in your life go down in price.

those prices are fine for 1 hours entertainment

perhaps a bit more cash flow may liven the basketball economy up

if the refs dont get better im gona go nuts, so im guessin the petrol prices are another reason why the price has reason?

This is ridiculous!! When will the government treat basketball like other sports and help us out of our loan. It is obvious we will never repay it and it's us, the players, parents and spectators of basketball in SA who are paying the price. What if you are a role player for you team and only get 10 minutes a match, thats a dollar a minute! This rise of $1.50 is off the mark.

It is time that Basa pulled their finger out and put some real pressure on the government to help us out, if they can help out the ice arena then they can definately helpout a main stream sport thats played by thousands in this state.

Also, now basketball has to be the most expensive sport, nearly 250 dollars for the player alone a season + uniform + shoes + club fees + parents fees to get into the match, you are looking at 500 dollars a season. Football for me at senior level is $125 a season, no more fees, just need a pair of boots and shorts. I wonder where kids will go...

Here we go again! stated that there are gonna be "highly paid referees". As if! How much do you consider to be "high"?

If you ask me, this is what should happen with scorers:

The scorer's buy a ticket, they present it to the referee at the end of the game, the referee returns it to the doorkeeper in return for the money and then the referee refunds the scorer!

I dont BASA gring the price down when they took away the player insurance. We still pay that at the door. Its money for nothing. The game gets nothing in return for money players pay out! Wake up before its to late.

the insurance was only around 10c per player per game

I agree - if they can bail the ice arena out - why not help basa

perhaps it gets back to john bannon and his current labour mates and the old entertainment centre deal?

when did your wages last go down - get with the economy - it's all up, up , up

if an extra 50c or $1.00 per game is going to break you - I have some cans at home - or better still grab a few of those $$$ if empty drink containers that are thrown out at stadiums every night

now that is where we could improve with recycling

what the Think of the cumulative cost over the year for a non-ABL Senior player, 9.50 a game plus petrol to wherever on a Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday night after work/uni/bumming around. If they take their wife/gf/bf/husband/dog thats extra.

How about the family that has all four kids playing? That's two transfers a weekend (right?).

car pool

even if you play 3 nights a week - it is still only a few $

if you don't play because it is an extra $1 - you will hire a video or go to the pub - and spend more

I feel we should have unemployed and student rates though

i agree we should look after families - but if that extra $2 breaks them - well what can I say - depends how much ball means to them

Interesting that at the same time they're bringing in a new anti-abuse policy they themselves are blaming referees for their own mistakes.

From memory the biggest single game rise in referee payments is for a Div 2-5 womens game, old rate being $13.65 new rate being $15. Hardly an explanation for a $1.50 rise per player. That being said the Association is finally putting some money into referee development; new money has to come from somewhere. Admission prices being one of many avenues.

Unfortunately the Association is on the brink of bankruptcy. Some may argue that if the Association did just that it would mean a complete overhaul of basketball in this state and that would be a good thing.

The fact of the matter is that this rise will hopefully allow the Association to break even and keep running. It's a case of paying an extra $1.50 to play each game, or not playing at all.

your negativity is killing the sport - when did you last knock back a pay rise, or refuse the dole to save the country money.

if you have a business - do you offer it for free to save the community money?

if 1 or 2 $ extra week is going to kill you - what more can one say

If anyone's in touch with a Liberal MP, tell them to wipe BASA's debt (the $20m or so isn't a lot of money in the big scheme of things) and they've got my vote.

Maybe a concerted "vote Liberal" campaign is needed, perhaps by the local MP in Findon.

Someone tell Rob Kerin - here's your ticket to the top job.

PS. Feel free to remove "Liberal" from the above post and insert "Legalise Marijuana Party" if you like. The idea is still the same!!

As a parent with a long time invovement in the game (coach, team manager, season tickets at the Sixers), I'm afraid this will make a difference to the number of times I attend. It is too much. There are lots of comparisons we can make, but mine is that I can watch 22 games of SANFL football for $70 each year. Basketball needs a Season Ticket for families. Been down this path before - BASA gets the $$ upfront, less hassle at the gate, more spectators (I've already paid so may as well go). Can't believe the administration is that difficult? Price should be a small discount on the normal weekly cost.

I understand that BASA needs the cash. Its fine that they want to develop referees and support them within the sport... in fact its needed.
BUT how can they justify 7 players per team paying $9.50 for only one ref to rock up week after week?? Thats about $15 per game for the ref, or say $30 if they get paid for a solo game.... The money in to them is $133. They pay out $25 for the court hire, $30 for the ref.... Plus a bit here and there for admin costs. Thats one game per night... Run with 5 games per grade per night. Totals up to $1330 in and $550 plus admin costs out per night.
Social they come out even more in front, because the court hire and ref costs are less.
It has been obvious for years that BASA is a massively top-heavy organisation. The numbers on staff at the top end ... how necessary are they, and could this be better streamlined? Staff costs comprise of a massive chunk of the organisational budget. Cutting costs in these areas instead of increasing costs in others may be a more effective way to manage this.
Increasing costs will, as so many people on this forum have outlined not only discourage people from joining the sport, but will drive people away who are already established within it.
Sad.

Couldn't agree more with the last comment (55155 Anonymous). At the end of the day we all have a choice and BASA are making that choice easier unfortunately for a parent whose child wants to play sport but doesn't know whether to play footy or basketball ??

Many post have concentrated on the fact that $1 or $2 extra per week won't break you. People considering wether their child should develop by moving from social council comp to district will look at the total cost per year. They will probably decide that their child can have basketball as an exercise at the social level. It is disappointing that BASA does nothing to "sell" these increases by explaining to us cannon fodder where the money goes. A few added benefits would also be helpful, such as seating for spectators or supplying scorers for finals or etc etc so that people can see that they are getting something for continual price increases.

I play 3 games a week $9 a game is rediculous. its gonna cost $27 a week. No insurance either which is the sore point, if they covered that then you would assume it was kinda OK. what also bites it you then play a whole season and lose the grand final and you dont even get a runners up trophy.
its pathetic.
its nearly enough to turn me to play streetball at nights in summer. Time to start organising some pickup games at the local outdoor courts.
catch ya.

Quting the original post: "The fee adjustments are a requirement to meet normal operational costs, but more particularly to fund an increase in the cost of officiating. This component includes not only Match costs but also a contribution towards recruitment training and development of officials"

For a senior district div 2-5 game, officials are paid $15 - an increase (from $13.70 for a womens game, and $14.70 for a mens game) over last season of an average $0.80 per game.

Two officals per game makes that a total average increase in officiating match costs of $1.60 per game.

BASA now collects an additional $1.50 per senior player per game.

Assuming that 16 players per game show up, that equates to BASA collecting an additional $24 per game.

Just wanted you all to know that for senior div 2-5 games an average of only $1.60 ($2.60 for a womens game, $0.60 for mens) of that $24 is going into the officials pocket.

To be fair, it does suggest that the increase will also contribute to T&D, though surely that was already happening?

BASA should make friends with a PR company to help in situations like this.

You could become the PA for BASA Isaac? lol

PR* and No I'm not padding my stats.

Thats a 16% pay increase wow that is a lot. You would expect the quality of the officiating to be of a high level to demand a pay increase of this magnitude.

At the moment the quality of referees in SA is shocking..... This may have something to do with the numbers but they still shouldnt be getting a price rise.

They are having to recycle old referees who are used to umpiring social.

Its not the umpires fault but if players have to pay a higher price we should get a better product. ie higher quality refereeing.....

when you look at it this way, i know blokes who play reserves footy and get paid $75 per game, whilst our basketball reserves are paying $9.50 per game, plus club fees.

How are we meant to develop basketball as a major sport in this country if it continues like this.

All other points aside BASA would have to be the most expensive basketball club in Australia. A comparison would be good if anyone could do it. I have been apart of many clubs in other states and if they tried to charge $3 or $4 for a spectator they would have got no spectators at all. Im surprised the basketball community has put up with the high costs even before the pay rise.
Seems like a very innefficient organisation.

or take your child to play footy where it is free to play and spectators can watch for free too.

It is no wonder kids are going to play footy and basketball is floundering.

What else could you expect.

How is the umpiring situation handled in the amatuer footbal leagues??

Picking up important point raised by Moses Guthrie - there is an election coming up in a few months time (March next year). Now is the time to act to get the most out of the political parties as it is the only time in four years that they actually have an incentive to listen. Maybe we should start a new topic with ideas on how we, the SA BAsketball community, can best campaign to get a better deal out of whoever wins the next election.

There will be a choice for all the social teams tho.

Who is going to play $9 a game to get beaten up and have crap refs. On the flip side, who is going to pay $9 a game to beat a team by 50 or so points.

At this point the social refs and stadium management would want to improve out of sight in a very short amount of time or they will find themselves without a social comp!

BASA should install Efpos on the counter of all the stadiums. As an incentive they should offer a discounted petrol voucher if you pay more than $20 to get in.

If football umpires get paid considerably more than basketball umpires then why is it free for people to watch football but basketball charges to watch???

or water or mow wide expanses of lawn... oh wait!

Good point but you would think the land would be more expensive than the buildings.

Do footy clubs own the land or does the council own the land?

An interesting thought in all this (and I refer to my previous post #55043) - the increases are bizarre and excessive to say the least. Compare BASA and the Salvo comp on Monday nights (and sorry to continue drawing comparisions to the Salvo's, but the difference is scary). Also, don't discount how much team registration costs - it usually bumps up the actual price by another $1 or so per game.

BASA
No player insurance
Senior Player $9.50 + rego
Junior Player $5.00-$7.00 + rego
Spectator $3.00-$4.50

Social BASA
No player insurance
Senior Player $9.00 + rego
Concession Player $7.50 + rego
Junior Player $7.00 + rego
Spectator $3.00

Salvo Comp
Player insurance provided
Senior Player $6.00 (no rego and no concession rate)
Junior Player $3.00 (no rego)
Spectator $1.00
Family discount as determined by Association Executive in special circs

And yes, I've been involved with the Salvo comp for many years so I admit my bias, but ..... you do the math.

anonymous- you sound quite certain but i disagree. wiping down the floors compared with the water to keep lawns green and petrol for the ride on mower. dont forget that football clubs also have club rooms and so on that they have to maintain.

Hi Ron

I know you read this web site, so first things first...Hello.

Secondly, lets hope the direction of our sport will go in another direction soon...good luck with your next direction.

In answer to anonymous (#55212) - other costs include player insurance and administrative etc, along with cost of sending teams away to national carnivals etc, and their own referees.

Other than running the stadium (and in difference, Salvo's pay rent) ..... there's really no difference at all.

Ref's getting paid more to cop abuse? What a load of crap!!! Ref's payments arn't going up. It's just another way for BASA to raise a bit of payola. It's about time they got off their collective Arse's and had a look at how well other sports are run and how INEXPENSIVE they are for people to particpate in. BASA are a laughing stock as far as an organisation goes! What a joke!

Maybe we should adopt the high school model the states have for their higher level basketball programs.

sure, but the cost of land for footy would be double that of the same for a stadium. add in a grandstand?

ongoing maintenance would be higher for footy if you ignore loans. are there loans outstanding on hillcrest, mount barker, port adelaide, pasadena?

55220, surely they can cooperate?

pretty sure that a footy oval + stands + club rooms is bigger than a couple of basketball courts + seating + club rooms.

wouldn't footy clubs have loans also, or have endured them in the past?

basketball: 3 games per hour = 6 teams * 8-10 players = 48-60 paying players - 6 refs.

footy oval: how long is a kids game, how many umpires, how many on the field each game? might make less per game if you assumed 1 hour, 40 or so kids and 4 umps.

Anyone wonder if putting the prime reasoning for the increase on the standard of referees might backfire in one sense -- i.e., people would be more critical of them?

FMJ, I'm not sure that they would use a full oval for a kids game in football?

Isaac that's exactly my point. To bring in a new stringent anti-abuse policy and government $$ selling it then to blame rises in referee payements and money spent on referee training and development for the massive price increse seems rather hypocritical and conter productive to me.

FYI, SA Church fees for 2005 were as follows (referring to my previous post #55210):

Senior players $7.00
Junior players $4.50
Spectators $2.00
Scorer/spectators FREE
Team registration $80.00

I have tried to follow the nearly 100 posts on this issue, but i have stated this point earlier in a thread over a month ago - The pay increase last time was due to the fact of covering players insurance. Now that it has gone it should have been adjusted apprporiately throughout the competition in all aspects. Therefore, the money that was going to player insurance could have reasonably be given to umpires and referees, hence no reason why the amount to pay-to-play is to be increased. As a referee, coach and player myself, I am for development for referees as they are an essential asset to this competition, but so are players and spectators, and if there is going to be this much furore, there is a chance the competition could fold itself.

If everyone is so against it, contact the ACCC. It is about time BASA were held completely accountable to the competition and the people themselves directly involved in it. Get them to answer questions- why wasnt there a decrease in admission fees when the player insurance was abolished? Why is there such an increase across the board?

Surely increasing prices like this is the future and reality for a great many community-based sports? Ultimately, the user pays. It happens in cricket. It happens in tennis. It happens in football. The alternative funding sources are not obvious?

The bottom line must be that running/owning/managing stadiums to support a sport such as basketball can't be getting any cheaper. Running a sport can't be getting easier either. BASA, on behalf of the sport, not in spite of it, is slowly but clearly working to resolve its apparent financial issues, and surely nobody would suggest that these pricing decisions are made on a whim?

Costs such as council rates [how are the stadiums zoned?], power, maintenance/repairs - all these have risen as well - and they must influence costs? These all need to be passed on to the end user.

If the end user doesn't pay, then who should  the Taxpayer? The Ratepayer? The sport? Where else might the sport find the money?

Perhaps the stadiums could be used more and therefore generate more income so basketball players pay less? Ovals often have multiple users. However, whose responsibility should this be?

The Government has already contributed significantly to the sport, and may yet forgive the Loan, but the sport seems to be struggling to make ends meet on so many levels already.

Perhaps unfortunately for a few people, it is another case where the basketball community simply does need to 'chip in' again?

Because the Association can not run at a loss and remain in business. If you want the Sixers and Fellas to stay on the floor, if you want the Dome to remain in use, if you want to be able to play in the Junior, Senior or Social competitions then BASA as an organisation has to at the very least break even.

There is a lot going on that isn't clear to the general public. Unfortunately it has to be that way. Unfortunately the BASA Exec needed to put a tangible explanation forward for the increase ... referee T & D being one of two reasons they used.

Also can we please stop claiming stadiums don't run at a profit, there isn't a local stadium in S.A. which isn't making a profit. Even after staff and referee payments. Stadiums are unfortunately used to make money for the bigger programs above it, they are not the reason for the current rise.

What the, you claearly have enough money to play so good on you.. You would be suprised at how many people out there (particularly families) are struggling to make ends meet and whilst $2 is nothing to you, it means a lot to some people especially if they have 3+ kids. Please don't assume that everyone has money to throw around on the non essential items of life.

It still gets down to the situation that the juniors are subsidising the elite 36 ers program.In other sports it usually happens in reverse.

Ouch, the increase in player fees is going to hurt, and in more ways than the hip pocket. For the extra amount of money (note:there was a small rise not so long ago) I think players expectations will rise in what games have to offer. I think players will demand higher levels of officiating, not tolerate single's (1 ref for the game)and ultimatly become more disappointed with what value they are getting for their money. I would prefer the money to go into ref development and then I could swallow the rise a bit better.

Unfortunatly I can forsee a backlash against ref's and stadium managers, even when the decision has been made at a way higher level. This will result in unhappier players, refs (where there is already shortages) and parents. Even though $2 or so may not seem like a huge rise, that money can make a big difference on people deciding whether it's worthwhile playing. Just as an example, $9 is a fair bit of money for most high school/uni students and it will lead to people not playing, no matter how much they enjoy the game.

However much money BASA owes to the state (does anyone actually know for certain?, a rise in game fees will most likely not make a huge dent into the debt and will (imho) cause more problems than solving existing ones.

As a sign of courtesy it would be great to see BASA provide some kind of notice/pamphlet available at social/district games to explain why the prices have rised. If one is out already, excuse my ignorance, but my game is tonight and the only time i'v heard about it has been on this forum.

1. BASA sell's the Dome, back to State Government
2. Sell the 36ers

Start treating Basketball in SA as a business, not as a sport. I agree that we are still paying for the 80's and the 90's mistakes, but its time to look to the future and set out a 3-5 year plan for basketball in SA.

Lets hope the new CEO has a GOOD business mind and doesn't listen to all the stupid BULLSHIT that goes on at BASA everyday.

The next year or two should be interesting!!!!!!!!!!

Hope I dont upset too many people but is this why Sturt, Norwood, Forestville have become stronger in the last few years because of the socio economics of their catchment areas?

I think that people should use the redraw facility on their home loan to get through the season financially. Nothing wrong with maxing out the home loan. What's another couple of years of repayments!

From what i've heard when the dome had live concerts and stuff BASA was doing relatively well financially. But then the Ent Cent was built and BASA lost the licence. Which venue has more seating the dome or the ent cent. I've been told it's the dome. If that is the case then wouldn't it be better to hold live concerts etc at the dome and then funnel the profits back into BASA thus blowing a big chunk out of the debt and hopefully helping to provide a more financially stable association that can better serve basketball in SA.

From 1995, the Government provided BASA with an annual grant of $250 000, as compensation for agreeing not to hold concerts at the Stadium, which would be in direct competition to the Entertainment Centre... From 1999, the Government provided BASA with a further annual grant of $250 000 for the purposes of promoting basketball in the State.

It should also be mentioned that BASA has received financial grant assistance from the Management and Development Grant Program under the administration and control of the ORS. In recent years, the annual grant has amounted to $222 000 and is applied by BASA and SACBA towards basketball development.

In April 2000, BASA advised the Government that it was facing financial difficulties ... In order to survive, BASA proposed that its debt be reduced to about $7.5 million.

On 14 August 2000, Cabinet approved a partial writeoff of BASA's loan facility to the Government and agreed to extend the existing grants totalling $500 000 per annum beyond 2003-04 to 2020. The agreement reached between BASA and the then Treasurer for the loan facility, culminated in a partial writeoff and restructuring of the original inflation indexed loan to a credit foncier loan of $11 million, with instalments payable half-yearly over 20 years to 30 June 2020.

In addition, two further general purpose grants of $300 000 (2000-01) and $250 000 (2001-02) were granted by the then Treasurer to assist BASA to overcome its financial difficulties.

While BASA indicated that the revised arrangements would enable it to meet its commitments in the short term, concern was expressed by BASA on its ability to survive in the long term.

Hah, typical BASA....fine lets screw the juniors again. Well its getting to the point where parents are dropping their kids at the door cos its getting too dear - at under 16 level! So thats kids of 14 being left at the door. Dont think it doesnt happen - i have been in a team where it did happen to more than 1 player! It sucks big time - and now i have 2 playing on the same night - when they are at different stadiums - i suppose i will get suckered for one of those transfer passes - its bull! If I pay to see one game and have another to go to on the same night - my ticket should be valid. I am at the point where I am starting to encourage my kids to think about quitting basketball and take up something different. I can guarantee one thing, I will not be spending any extra cash on basketball nights at away stadiums, so those clubs will start to suffer cos I dont think I will be alone. They make good money from visiting patrons (well they used to - maybe not any more) as we have to now find another

Can someone tell me what extra costs BASA has when a spectator comes to a game?

If there are none why is BASA charging or is it a matter of milking those families that show an interest in their kids choice of sport.

If it cost $10-$12 per player to run a game then why not charge the player $10-$12 and let friends/parents/ family etc all come to watch. Surely encourgaging rather discouraging others to come to a game has got to be better for the promotion of basketball!!

This thread is now over 100 posts strong and yet no viable, sensible or realistic alternatives to increased prices have been offered.

Until now, that is:

* Equip each stadium with a Cash Converters in the front entrance; patrons simply hock stuff off for quick cash which in turn they give to the door person.

* Institute HECS-style loan scheme, whereby kids can "defer" paying entry fees until such time as they're in the NBA or another professional league and can afford to pay the "loan" back.

* It's been mentioned before, but it's worth mentioning again: find rich local popular culture icon - a la Snoop Dogg - to bankroll breakaway league.

* Loser pays. Ie losing team has to cover both teams' entry fees. Wouldn't that do wonders for "ugly parent" syndrome?

* Allow gambling. Set up www.basabets.com.au. If you want to bet $50 that Torrens Valley will cover the spread against the Northern Rattlers in the Div 3 U14 boys this weekend, go your hardest. All proceeds go to BASA to plough back into local hoops and reducing admission fees.

See, it's easy if you stop and think about it!

how about reserve one of the courts per night for a texas hold'em tourney. play your game of bball then ante up $20.00 to hopefully win enough money to pay for your season. $20* 100 players = $2000 prize money (minus a little cut for basa). everyones a winner!!!

TEXAS HOLD-EM would be awesome!

I'd say some members of the EVIL EMPIRE would be up for that!

I agree with "p'od" parent. My daughter played tonight at The Dome, only 1 court in use and i only saw 1 team coming in for 7pm start. I noticed on both of the teams involved playing tonight a serious lack of parents! Did not see 2 parents per player, well not in our team.

Isaac quoted "In recent years, the annual grant has amounted to $222 000 and is applied by BASA and SACBA towards basketball development."

Who's SACBA? SA Church Basketball Association?

South Australian Country Basketball Association.
I wonder what % SA Country gets. 50 - 50 or do they just get what BASA gives them.