Anonymous
Years ago
https://thewest.com.au/sport/nbl/bryce-cotton-signs-mega-contract-with-wildcats-to-keep-him-in-perth-for-next-three-seasons-ng-b881558973z
Perth
Daylight
Melbourne
Sydney
.. the rest
koberulz
Years ago
If he was on 600k previously, as has been reported, that would be 1.8 million over three years and the actual phrasing is "about 2 million" not "2 million", so it's not actually that remarkable.
What are the figures over years 2 and 3? They must be at least 700k a year
If he becomes a citizen most of his wages will be in the marquee bracket, Perth have done it again.
TB
Years ago
3 imports down to 2 so you can pay him part of Terriko/Plumlees salary.
KET
Years ago
Remarkable in the context of the salary cap though.
If you have a club like Cairns paying the salary cap (roughly $1.1mil?) and no further, Cotton would be taking up about 55-60% of that on his own!
Wonder what kind of coin Machado will get?
Cotton's three-year deal is understood to be worth about $2 million, but no other player has been forced to take a pay cut to fit him back in.
The guy could easily get over 1mill per season in Europe, maybe 1.5.
Larkin is on 2.8 mill
I think the salary cap will jump up to 1.6 mill in 21/22
ever team needs multi year import ( maybe became a citizen)
Sydney Deshon Taylor
Brisbane Patterson as Marquee
Cairns Scott Machado as Marquee
SEM Roberson
36ers or Hawks DJ Newbill
UNITED Long as marquee . Prather I think is done
Breakers Hopson as Marquee
Cool. good for Perth, he's the best player in the comp and deserves to get paid.
Thats the nature of sport. The tops players make matchups exciting and draw crowd interest. They get the spoils.
could u see Cam Bairstow as a replacement for Kay
Cotton gets a pay rise
No one takes a pay cut
They spending more than Melbourne and Sydney
That's not proof of anything in regards to team's spending.
They back end the deal to the last of his two seasons, he's naturalised and becomes the marquee so most does not go to the cap. He can split his tax up over a five year period so all are happy.
Professional organisation Perth even if they are bitches.
How does the tax splitting thing work when the NBL year is basically the same as the financial year?
I'm no accountant but sports people in general can split there tax I believe over five years to adjust for good and bad years. It makes sense as there salary can vary so much.
Reading between the lines, sounds like Bendat stepped in to pay the luxury tax.
Bol
Years ago
They would have had extra room in the cap with kay and white possibly not returning and one less import spot available for next season. Its not that hard to believe no one else needed to take a pay cut. Not to mention the ability to back end contracts i expected the deal to be over 2 million
"Cotton got a pay rise to come back!" Yes what a joke. Playerxs salaries get cut next season by 40%. So if he was on 600K (bullshit) that means he gets $240k next season and you can work out the rest. Utter mismanagement by the NBL yet again. No wonder Perth is so hated.
Cornholio
Years ago
40% off 600K = $240K?? Lol.
Something is wrong with the education system.
D2.0
Years ago
STILL getting less than Bogut or Ware was.
Cotton was on $500k. That was cut to $250k.
He would have gotten more for his next contract anyway. So, without Covid, he probably would have received around $1.7~1.8M over the 3-year period.
A $2M deal, equates to $1.75M after the covid cut in the first year.
The difference with Sydney is that Ware wasn't really worth the money he was on, so I SUSPECT Sydney weren't interested in renegotiating upwards.
And yes, as has been discussed from the beginning, once naturalised Cotton will be treated as a Marquee for super-tax purposes.
My understanding is someone on $600K wouldn't be cut to $300K, rather that every dollar they earned over $200K would be halved. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pay cuts are like our tax system, you lose a greater percentage as you move into higher brackets.
"No, he had a 3 yr deal worth roughly $1.5M"
Even if that was true (which it isn't) it still wouldn't disprove that he was paid $600k last season (which he was)
D2.0 has no idea.
These deals are always done in USD and net.
Add the fact the wildcats will double what he is getting for the books due to the pay cuts, so assume he'll be getting $750 k AUD, meaning he’ll take up the entire cap if he isn’t Aussie (marquee)
So long story short- wildcats luxury tax alone could prop up the whole league
You think he is getting paid $750k after tax? Um no.
No. Learn to read.
The way the salary cap works in the NBL is before tax and includes agent fees etc.
So the $750 is very realistic. That's on the books and what he’ll get, so it’ll be 1.5 on the cap
They hope that paperwork comes thru
You get what you pay for.
Bryce Cotton is Dom Perignon , other teams seem to think passion pop is sufficient.
"Before tax is gross, after tax is net."
Yes .. and?
Save this page for the clueless fans.
No point trying to explain the particulars here.
Whether his deal is in USD or not, its still needs to adjusted to AUD for salary cap purposes, so what did D2 say that was wrong?
"40% off 600K = $240K?? " Yes I wrote that and I left out the word "less" next season. Get it? You should have been able to work that out surely.
Either way it's Perth doing yet another special deal.
So if he was getting $1.5mill over 3, he would now be getting ridiculous dollars in year 2 and 3. Hopefully there will be a hard cap and they are fucked then.
If you cant write properly its not for everyone else to work out what you mean.
koberulz
Years ago
The comforting thing about this thread is that even knowing absolutely nothing about the specifics of contracts I can still tell most posts are completely wrong.
I like how the anon above claims that D2.0 was wrong for not using USD to talk about Cotton's deal, but then goes on to use AUD to make a very similar point anyway.
Kobe telling everyone else he is right again. How unsurprising and so annoying.
Ignore Koberulz just scroll past him.
Problem solved.
He has picked at comments I have made but I'm the better person because I ignore him.
He is just a troll.
That is the worst example of ignoring someone I've ever seen.
So Cotton gets the $deal and someone like Gibbo takes the %cut? Nice on NBLPA.
"The comforting thing about this thread is that even knowing absolutely nothing about the specifics of contracts I can still tell most posts are completely wrong" What was your point though. Other than chest thumping you have said nothing that suggests people's guesses are so wrong.
Same as the guy who said D20 was wrong, but gave some irrelevant reason why
Vic Wildcat
Years ago
Gee how many people on here are either Cotton's manager or his bank manger, everyone seems to know what he was paid last year and what he recently signed for.
LoveBroker
Years ago
So Cotton gets the $deal and someone like Gibbo takes the %cut?
Oh yes I can guess why. Is this to be an intelligence test?
The big names renogitiate and the rest will be pulleded back under the guise of austerity measures. Was this what the NBLPA had in mind?
the pay cut probly was to get the older guys to retire
^ making fun of typos and/or grammatical errors.
Onya mate...
LoveBroker
Years ago
The big names renogitiate and the rest will be pulleded back under the guise of austerity measures. Was this what the NBLPA had in mind?
KET
Years ago
But also, why is there an assumption that damage isn't in place?
Don't assume that because Australia is doing well in working towards eliminating the virus that a lot of money hasn't been sucked out of businesses that provide sponsorship dollars, or members who may have lost their jobs, or owners whose businesses took a hit.
Expected revenue hit + less capital to be thrown around requires less expenditure to be viable.
The stars like Cotton draw good crowds, they persuade memberships and while they may have overseas options they are so helpful to NBL sides financially, that's why they can renegotiate to get their payday still, while other players are inevitably going to take the hit. Someone has to take the hit, it's the players that don't have the leverage.
It is shrewed, it is savvy. Your 5th-10th players are more easily replaceable, when you are trying to make the best decision to maximise revenue while limiting expenditure, that pay cuts go to those players.
When things improve financially, that's when those pay-cut players can get that better average pay day, which the NBL has done a good job at improving over the last 5 years.
The cuts should have been an even percentage for every one, good players should not loose 50%,40%,30% and bottom enders nothing. If the league was in such bad shape everything that's been put out in the last few seasons is bullsit.
I'm getting mixed messages re Nick Kay with aussiehoopla.com saying he is expected to return as per Bryce Cotton.
It was certainly commented on at the time the deal was struck. In the end, the big names can and will do what it takes to get what they think they are worth despite certain peoples instances to the contrary.
What is the argument to not got into a holding pattern? Watch and then act. Let the other codes take the hits.
Two maybe three of those names listed will take no hit at all. Indeed, they will likely profit. It seems it gave at least one quite a bit of bargaining power.
Thanks to the spelling police. I LOLed. :)
LoveBroker
Years ago
Don't assume that because Australia is doing well in working towards eliminating the virus that a lot of money hasn't been sucked out of businesses that provide sponsorship dollars, or members who may have lost their jobs, or owners whose businesses took a hit.
What is the argument to not got into a holding pattern? Watch and then act. Let the other codes take the hits.
koberulz
Years ago
What period does an NBL contract cover?Not entirely sure what you mean, but some contracts start doling out payments as early as the beginning of May IIRC.
Imports contract last length of season, locals can vary from length of season to yearly, 1st July to 30th June.
Also they are in USD and net and if you don't know that then you are clueless
KET
Years ago
As koberulz says, it's possible clubs need to pay contracts now, without this kind of deal in place that could force onerous obligations on clubs who may have limited cash reserves out of this situation.
Entirely possible this saves a couple of clubs a whole world of immediate pain.
Re prices for tickets - NBL has always been a fairly pricey ticket, particularly 36ers. Wonder what capacity there is for reducing prices to try and draw people in?
I wonder when in the season crowds will even be allowed in
KET
Years ago
One assumes it ties to virus elimination within Australia/NZ. Hard to see reasonable crowds allowed before active cases get to zero.
Active cases at zero nationally with exception to overseas returning quarantine, plus 4-6 weeks without new cases, again save for overseas returnees quarantine.
Effectively, to be community transmission of the virus eliminated for a period of over 2-3 cycles.
If community transmission still occurs, the risk becomes extremely high
KET
Years ago
That can be achieved by the end of the year if clusters are well traced.
LoveBroker
Years ago
the above is very hard to achieve I think.
All you need is one, and they don't even have to be the irrespsonsible type just unluckily assymptomatic.
I think for health and safety reasons we would lose around 10-15% of the crowd, not even price reductions would bring them in.
Then we have those with reduced discretionary income, that could be another 10%.
I do hope in Australia we have zero cases though however unlikely.
There's no way. All the momentum is with opening things up. No one is going to want to lock down for a long time again just so large crowds can gather.
I think the best case we can hope for is for sparse crowds to be allowed in at some point in the season like maybe 25% capacity (just pulling a % figure out of my arse but you would think it will have to be a long way south of 50%)
LoveBroker
Years ago
Far out 50%?
Might as well go to the Wollongong Entertainment Centre.
At least there there is an indoor Waterfall for ambience.
"Far out 50%?
Might as well go to the Wollongong Entertainment Centre."
lol the one team that is already fully covid ready
Kestleman has already said "no crowds, no NBL" That's pretty clear so, so why are are we even talking about a "graduated" crown return?
Surely you could safely have one family per block of seats. Pick them using a weekly attendance raffle.
Re: contracts: why would any NBL players contract be payable outside the season's window (promotional etc. etc. included)?
What I think Kestelman has actually said is they won't start the season in October if there are no crowds allowed, they will delay the season as much as possible before opening. However, I haven't seen him say there won't be a season if no crowds are allowed.
Perthworld
Years ago
Re: contracts: why would any NBL players contract be payable outside the season's window (promotional etc. etc. included)?
"We won't start the season in early October with no crowds. That we won't do. Our number one priority is getting fans in the venues." Read into that what you want.
Luuuc
Years ago
Somewhat related to the above talk of crowds ...
Texas Governor Allows Fans to Attend Outdoor Pro Sporting Events at 25% Capacity
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott announced Thursday that fans will be allowed to attend outdoor professional sporting events in nearly every Texas county at up to 25% capacity starting this Friday.
Leagues will first have to apply and receive approval from the Texas Department of State Health Services and indoor events will still be held without spectators.
Abbott said Friday that the state has set up a number of guidelines for leagues to follow, including a recommendation that spectators and employees keep at least six feet apart from anyone not from their household.
Another Anon
Years ago
The conversation shouldn't be about Cotton getting paid so much (if true), it should be about what can be done at the other clubs to ensure they can do the same!
We need the whole league able to pay star players that much, not just one or 2 teams.
D2.0
Years ago
Cotton has won 2 league MVPs in 3 years, and probably only missed the third due to injury.
Why are people shocked that this takes his salary into the top echelon?
Keep in mind that of the ~$2M, ~$250~$300k he doesn't actually get.
(Also, just as the declining dollar has inflated his earnings of late, should the AUD rebound against the USD, then he will cost less.)
Yes, this is bizarre compared to where the league was 5 years ago, but it is the direction we have been going.
He's also not alone in getting a generous back-ended contract. According to Olgun and others many other players are doing the same. The only differences are that Cotton opted-out before renegotiating, and the level of publicity attached.
And he's still getting less than Bogut or Ware got last season.
From the outset, I have questioned the sustainability of this salary system. Sydney have gone nuts since it was first implemented, Perth & Melbourne not far behind, and obviously some teams struggling to compete. I suppose we can only keep waiting and seeing, but in the mean time can the haters please stop pretending that Perth is the only team spending at these levels.
We also have to wait and see if Perth is forced to economise on other players. No news yet on any return by Kay, and who knows what our imports will look like.
I would think Melbourne went nuts and Perth and Sydney not far behind.
I think Sydney went nuts and forfeited the grand final because they couldn't win.
The contract would likely be agreed to in Net USD (e.g. US$200K Net). This is then converted into a Gross AUD at 0.91 for salary cap purposes (Player Value) and the market rate (about 0.60 presently) for actual payments to the player. With the current conversion rate so low, not surprising this deal is a bit higher than previous deals.
The COVID 50% cut simply means when regular salary payments are made to players, they are 50% smaller. Contracts are negotiated as normal and normal player value is used for salary cap. They all just agreed to take a reduction to their payments for a duration of time. Cotton may have come back to the exact same contract he opted out of for NBL21, but added an extension.
D2.0
Years ago
This is then converted into a Gross AUD at 0.91
Trev
Years ago
Look, who cares, but if you want to know I'll 'll get a copy to upload here on Tuesday. Cotton wouldn't mind.
Coach
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