I'm leaning more and more away from "home cooking" to the fact the refs are complete imbeciles.

No doubt that home venue can have some impact on games.

The pressure on refs can be substantial.

Is it time to gag the coaches from talking to the refs during game time? Some of it, think Gleeson et al, amounts to bullying. Bad look for the game and only adds to the pressure on the refs.

It is totally unnecessary and can slow down the action on court. I think most people go to watch the players rather than the coaches' ugly behaviour.

How about sending them to the NBA for a year so they can learn how to not pay SOFT FOULS...Ive said it once and Ill say it again..Fans go to watch a game of basketball...not to watch the umpires..Its a man on man physical sport..not a game of Netball..Australian umpires stop the game far too much with ridiculous soft fouls...its easy to see how frustrated the players are with these calls ..especially the american imports...Either get our umps to swallow the whistle or get some NBA umps out here to run the show...It will make our game a whole lot better to watch...

OK, so this thread is about the quality if the ref-ing, their capacity to succomb to an over-zealous home crowd & untimately influence the result of the game ... well isn't that a 'Captain Obvious' ?

I absolutely agree fouls change behaviour (eg MU last night, even with Vickerman said don't worry about the guys on court were conservative & Sydney got away from them)...

But I also agree that it is a bad look for big mouth Trev to be in Ref's ears, but I think the other is what could be perceived to be a lack of respect by the coaches & players questioning every call (either directly or with their pantomime of 'oh no, not me') and then requiring the ref to explain everything.

No doubt the person with the most work to do over the off-season is Scott Butler... his aim get quality and consistency across all the refs. Please Scott work then hard in the off-season as the game is suffering

[Home cooking isn't really the issue. It's the soft foul calls in general that are ruining the games.]

I agree, and I'll be starting another thread over the next few days specifically to discuss soft calls, focusing on one particular type: Rebounding and loose ball fouls.

But I also think home cooking is an interesting topic worthy of discussion.

For the Sydney-Melbourne and Cairns-Perth games, I had no horse in either race, and no axe to grind. But watching those games I could have sworn that the referees were under the directive to make this a Sydney-Perth grand final series. It was almost embarassing at times. Home teams got almost every 50/50 call, plus a half dozen phantom calls at opportune moments as well. I think the losing teams have every right to feel hard done by.

"and I'll be starting another thread over the next few days specifically to discuss soft calls, focusing on one particular type: Rebounding and loose ball fouls"

Why on earth would you do this?

[No such thing as a loose ball foul. That's an NBA term.]

I just mean two players competing for a loose ball (typically a rebound) and one of them is pinged for illegal contact. Typically it's for pushing, or sometimes holding.

Or sometimes, as in last night's game, you watch the replay and can't even work out what the ref supposedly saw. So without seeing the ref actually make the signal, you don't know what the call is.

[Why on earth would you do this?]

Because:

1. It's interesting

2. It relates to one of my favourite pastimes, watching bball

3. Because it results it lots of entertaining comments from people on the internet

Do I need any more reasons?

I have no problem with people complaining about home cooking, I wish it would stop.

The issue is when people like LV are the beneficiaries of home cooking, .

You can't have it both ways.

1. It's interesting - it really isn't

2. It relates to one of my favourite pastimes, watching bball - and you choose to talk about the refs over anything?

3. Because it results it lots of entertaining comments from people on the internet - like your comments?

I have no problem with people complaining about home cooking, I wish it would stop.
The issue is when people like LV are the beneficiaries of home cooking

Home Cooking seems to me like an intractable problem.

I've been thinking about this for a long time but was hoping some of you might offer solutions.

So far, good suggestion on restricting coach arguing. Coaches get away with more whinging than players- why?

Of course I'm not going to start threads and complain when it's my team. Psychology says we're all biased- I'm not exempt. Never claimed to be.

[ - and you choose to talk about the refs over anything?]

In case you haven't read any media, Twitter, etc over the past 18 hours EVERYBODY is talking about the refs and there's general agreement amongst neutrals that

1. Reffing was generally woeful and ruined an otherwise good game

2. It favoured Sydney

1 and 2 are separate issues. I'm actually far more interested in 1 than 2. Just had a few thoughts floating around re: 2, so started a thread on it. Feel free to ignore the thread if you wish!

One time ago, I played and only the Captain could talk to refs' Ask for explanation etc. all ok. but players couldn't .. Now, they all are talking to the refs... All things must change?

The only way to be consistent is to make sure Melbourne get unfavourable reffing home AND away.

LV, how come you decided to make a thread now?

Why didn't you make at any point when Melbourne got heavily favoured with home cooking?

Which 3 Refs deserve Game 1? I'd say Aylen, Mayberry and Lyons fot consistency and not letting the occasion get to them

Whatever happened to Scott Campbell ref wise? Was touted as the next big thing but not even in the League any more!!

My apologies - Scott Butler

[Why didn't you make at any point when Melbourne got heavily favoured with home cooking?]

Cos I don't notice it as much- I have psychological biases just as much as the next person.

But, again, the neutrals and journos are talking about it, and it's a deciding semi final game. That makes it newsworthy.

I didn't even notice much home cooking for Perth last night. And everyone knows how much I dislike Perth. I hadn't noticed it in any of the preceding 4 semi final games (only 1 of which was in Melbourne). That tells me last night was particularly bad.

"Why didn't you make at any point when Melbourne got heavily favoured with home cooking?]
"

Melbourne didn't get 45 points worth of home cooking. But could the home cooking have swayed Game 3 for Sydney? Absolutely.

LV, what did you think of the officiating in the 2018 GF series between Melbourne and Adelaide? I remember you weren't happy with the refs in last year's GF between Melbourne & Perth.

Of course I'm not going to start threads and complain when it's my team.

Just my 2 cents.. I'm a Cairns fan. I think there was some Perth home cooking, but minimal and you could argue they earned that with home advantage.

However, the Kings-United game was outrageous. And I can’t stand United. Very lopsided first half in particular. Worth noting that outside of the Lisch-Trimble play refs had very little to do with the last 3 mins and United’s poor decisions, but I concede United have a right to complain.

P.s when Goulding went to cut and Ware jumped in front and fell over, it was a terrible call. But... it was the funniest thing I’ve seen all season.

" Melbourne didn't get 45 points worth of home cooking. But could the home cooking have swayed Game 3 for Sydney? Absolutely."

Meant generally mate hence “at any point”, Not specifically game 2, never even watched that game

You're going to deserve the shit you get if your response is "hey let’s discuss awful umpiring when it hurts my team but I don’t care when it favours my team" that tells everyone you’re just bitching and if anything people will justifiably enjoy you in the mild pain associated with your team being kicked out of the finals series.

[You're going to deserve the shit you get if your response is "hey let's discuss awful umpiring when it hurts my team but I don’t care when it favours my team" ]

[You only care when the calls go against United.]

Let me spell it out for you guys. So this is really clear.

1. I like good basketball.

2. I have psychological bias, so I'll notice when United cops it and I won't notice it as Much when they benefit

3. This thread may have been started after last night got me thinking about home cooking, but this thread has nothing to do with United or Sydney. Nothing whatsoever.

4. Go back to number 1, re-read 1, 2 and 3 before replying.

[LV, what did you think of the officiating in the 2018 GF series between Melbourne and Adelaide? I remember you weren't happy with the refs in last year's GF between Melbourne & Perth.]

Yes McCarron was called for 9 fouls in the 2 Perth games without committing a single foul, so that was frustrating to watch.

In 2018 I recall every game being a fairly convincing result except game 3. So I doubt reffing unduly had much influence?

I recall Adelaide fans complaining about Sobey receiving inconsistent treatment to a United player. I thought Sobey's headbutt was more reckless and not exactly comparable. But I don't actually remember it with perfect clarity.

" 1. I like good basketball."

No it's clear you like basketball where Melbourne are favoured, that’s not good basketball.

“2. I have psychological bias, so I'll notice when United cops it and I won't notice it as Much when they benefit”

Everyone knows you do, that’s why everyone gives you crap for bitching after a Melbourne loss.

“ but this thread has nothing to do with United or Sydney. Nothing whatsoever. ”

It’s just well timed right after the game right? It’s clear you got yourself in a tizzy there’s nothing credible about your post it’s just you having a tanty.

“ 4. Go back to number 1, re-read 1, 2 and 3 before replying.”

Don’t ask people to suffer through your nonsense again, that’s just cruel.

" Yes McCarron was called for 9 fouls in the 2 Perth games without committing a single foul, so that was frustrating to watch."

As an FYI there's nothing in the rules stating a player must draw the same number of fouls as they commit.

If a player is committing 9 fouls and their opponent isn’t drawing fouls then perhaps it’s them and they should try a concept called adjusting.

There’s nothing dumber than people sooking about fouls when they are serial offenders. Griffin for Adelaide would foul recklessly and sook hard about it, that was more frustrating than any “bias” in any game.

Don't know what NBL refs are paid, but perhaps that is something to address. Back in 1999 an NCAA div 1 panel ref earned $300k US. Was told this by a div 1 panel aspirant. I reckon the NBL should try to get some NBA ref expertise, maybe send a couple of the senior guys over there to watch closely, be in their meetings, reviews, etc. It would also help if we could get one or two recently retired NBA refs over here to mentor. Unfortunately, many of them are nearing senility age by the time they retire so may not be so great. Personally, I don't like the NCAA refs. Too many drama queens and over reactors.

[
No it's clear you like basketball where Melbourne are favoured, that's not good basketball.]

You're just salty about 2018.

At least I'm frustrated with current events. Time to build a bridge.

[Everyone knows you do]

I'm honest.

It's refreshing.

[It’s just well timed right after the game right? It’s clear you got yourself in a tizzy there’s nothing credible about your post it’s just you having a tanty]

When Olgun Oluc, Derek Rucker, and half the world is complaining about the refs too, maybe there's a few issues with the reffing.

Or maybe not!

Whatever floats your little boat mate.

[
As an FYI there's nothing in the rules stating a player must draw the same number of fouls as they commit.

If a player is committing 9 fouls and their opponent isn't drawing fouls then perhaps it’s them and they should try a concept called adjusting.
]

You misread my post.

None of the 9 fouls called on McCarron were actually correct calls. All should have been no-calls. He was constantly called for fouls without even touching his opponent. His minutes and influence were restricted as a result. A really important player.

I defend LV in posting this topic because it deals with the integrity of the game.

The NBL is a pro-league, there is a lot of $ at stake in these contests. NBL has to be seen to be whiter than white and super vigilant.

If you don't ask questions you risk bias becoming business as usual and before you know it - you are in Manila.

If anyone had the time or interest (I don't), crunch the stats for evidence of home cooking. An alleged systematic tendency will show up as a statistical tendency.

"[
No it's clear you like basketball where Melbourne are favoured, that's not good basketball.]

You're just salty about 2018. “

WTF? You're deluded and grasping at straws. I didn’t mention 2018. Never watched the series, wasn’t in Australia either, hard to be salty about something I wasn’t around for or paid attention to.

LV - i do believe you are being trolled.

It's about as dumb a comment as people targeting where I live not realising I live in Melbourne not Adelaide.

1. I like good basketball.

2. I have psychological bias, so I'll notice when United cops it and I won't notice it as Much when they benefit

3. This thread may have been started after last night got me thinking about home cooking, but this thread has nothing to do with United or Sydney. Nothing whatsoever.

" When Olgun Oluc, Derek Rucker, and half the world is complaining about the refs too, maybe there's a few issues with the reffing.

Or maybe not!

Whatever floats your little boat mate."

Nobody said reffing isn't average in this league, we are just saying we don’t need to hear LV bitching about Melbourne not getting favoured. You say that’s not what you are doing but if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck it’s a duck.

[You're deluded]

I'm just a salty United fan, remember. What's your excuse?

Irony is, the more LV sooks the more people enjoy Melbourne losing the more it aggravates LV the happier everyone else is.

I'm pretty sure there’s a saying about graves and digging which fits well with this scenario.

The real irony is KET thinking I'm aggravated when I enjoy these threads, even the 80% of replies that have been completely off topic.

How would I kill time if not for the Hoops legends who know all and concede nothing!

(Like my great mate Lovebroker)

^ haha nicely said

LV

Where are your statistics to back up your claims of "Home cooking"

I agree there is a lot of soft fouls but its all about the analytics these days so....... Show me the numbers!!!!

Home Cooking no good. Uber Eats for me.

I went into the game wanting Sydney to win, and I was pulling for Melbourne by quarter time because it was so obvious they were getting screwed.

I usually don't pin anything on refs. But I am not sure how anyone could watch game 3 and not see clear bias that almost looks intentional. Didn't look too different to the bias in games you see in China.

Only one coach all year got thrown out and fined for calling out the refs.

The way coaches carry on towards refs in this league is ridiculous. How you can earn a coach repeatedly and still allow them to be in the refs ear needs to stop.

Tech and throw a few as it's only human nature that the constant whinging will make you adjust how you call a game.

Yeah I do get sick of seeing our coaches chew out the refs. The indignation they show for calls, especially guys like Joey Wright and Trevor Gleeson, borders on absurd. I'd be techning them up every 5 minutes.

The way coaches carry on towards refs in this league is ridiculous.

Scott Butler retired from refereeing and is now incharge of the NBL Refs.

I agree re getting tough on whinging coaches and players - 1 warning per game for the coach and 1 for the team players should be enough. Whenever a tech can't be given to any single player, then put it against the captain (who should be controlling team behaviour anyway).

I'd add getting tough (again?) on players who play for the foul through flopping or over-acting or head-throws, which hurts the image of the game or makes a mockery of respect for the referees.

I'd also like to see the referee review sessions after the game include a player rep and a coach's rep, so that there's better two-way communication and to make all parties more accountable (not just Scott Butler).

Whatever happened to Scott [Butler] ref wise? Was touted as the next big thing but not even in the League any more!!