Anonymous
Years ago
It's been a while since this has been discussed. Here’s my thoughts:
Remain:
Sydney Kings
South East Melbourne Phoenix (change name to Magic)
Perth Wildcats
Adelaide 36ers
NZ Breakers
Cairns Taipans
Brisbane Bullets
Change:
Melbourne United -> Melbourne Tigers
Illawarra Hawks -> Canberra Hawks
In:
Wellington
Tasmania
Long term: Bendigo
No..
Hobart devils preferably - team 10
Nz Breakers become Auckland
Bring in wellington saints - team 11
Canberra cannons return, ais arena upgrade - team 12
Geelong ? - team 13
Newcastle Hunters - team 14
Gold Coast ? - 15
Nz 3 - South Island locale - 16
Townsville Crocs - 17
Western Sydney ? -18
Sunshine Coast ? - 19
Darwin ? - 20
Maxed out, no more teams rams possible.
Happy to change united to tigers.
Mystro
Years ago
Gold Coast failed before and will no doubt fail again.
The Wellington Saints owner may no longer be interested after the league snubbed his previous bid for inclusion.
Yinka Dare
Years ago
There is no way Melb United would change back to the tigers, especially from a marketing viewpoint. Tigers brand was getting 3500 to games while the change to United has bought in new fans. No one would risk alienating fans to go back to the tigers.
The Phoenix name was stupid to begin with. I'm sure they thought it was great at the time. Maybe they couldn’t use the magic name due to Orlando.
Can’t see any expansion in Victoria but can’t see Bendigo ever getting a team. Geelong would surely be ahead if they wanted a team. Proven sports culture there and population could possibly support a team.
Tassie and Wellington look the best options. However even Tasmania I’m not sure. Surely you call them Tasmania and not Hobart.
The AFL can't even profit off Gold Coast. It’s a no go for sports.
Andrew
Years ago
Gold Coast is a black hole for sporting teams. The talent pool isn't big enough for more teams.
Yeah, Melbournes united aren't changing the with name. SE Melbourne aren’t changing their name. A small group of people craving nostalgia isn’t a legitimate reason to rebrand (especially when United’s rebranding from the Tigers has been so incredibly successful)
Likewise with the Hawks. They won’t relocate. They’re having a bad patch at the moment but all clubs have their ups and downs. More likely they’d be solid so somebody with the cash to invest in them than be relocated to Canberra, a market so poor that it struggled to sustain a SEABL team.
All that happens from here isn’t Tasmania get a team, and Wellington get a team. The rest is take as it comes.
Perthworld's big brother
Years ago
The OP trying to be funny.
Expansion is talked about daily.
Todd
Years ago
People competitions with even amount of teams but in terms of basketball it doesn't matter much in terms of fixturing.
28 game season seems to me about right.
12 teams should be the aim.
Hobart, Canberra, and Western Sydney are the most likely locations.
North conference
Brisbane
Cairns
Western Sydney
Sydney
Illawarra
Canberra
West Conference
Perth
Adelaide
Auckland
Melbourne
South East Melbourne
Hobart
Perthworld's big brother
Years ago
I hope you meant South conference Todd.
For Auckland especially.
KET
Years ago
Hate conferences. Bad idea all round, sorry.
With NBL expansion are are definitely limited scenarios. 10-12 gives the variety where if they fixture right, we don't need to see teams facing off against each other three times in three weeks or whatever.
Sustainable expansion needs to be met with solid foundations. Illawarra needs to be sorted out one way or another; Brisbane needs to progress; Adelaide needs to keep progressing; Cairns needs a way of getting greater capital; NZ needs their ownership to mature.
I’m confident Adelaide, Brisbane, NZ will be fine, hopeful Cairns can lure that extra capital. Hawks we don’t want them ending up like Townsville at the end.
Of course Phoenix still need to establish themselves they’re only a season in.
Tasmania 2021/22 makes sense.
If Illawarra gets it together, makes it easier to go to 12 teams. If they need to shift or withdraw then we are looking at a 10 team comp probably the next 6-10 years.
I know this expansion thread keeps coming up and I've never commented on them but here’s my two cents along with some other ideas...
I too like the idea of an eventual 12 team comp. However, with Australia/NZ’s population and the talent base of NBL level players, I think that’s the absolute maximum amount of teams or you begin to seriously dilute the standard of play.
I also like the idea of a 2 conference system. This has some benefits commercially for reducing travel costs which can be managed by the league office for the teams with greater travel costs (Perth, Cairns, NZB and eventually NZ2).. However, I’m not sure why many have suggested east/west conference naming.. That’s just a copy of the NBA and we need to come up with something more creative... perhaps NBL legend names or something different again.
Once we have the 12 teams, perhaps it could be something like this...
Bradtke Conference
- Melbourne
- SE Melbourne
- Hobart
- New Zealand
- New Zealand 2 - Wellington?
- Adelaide
Loggins Conference
- Sydney
- Western Sydney
- Brisbane
- Cairns
- Perth
- Canberra/Illawarra/Newcastle
Each conference team plays each other twice home & away and the other conference’s teams once home and away = 32 game schedule
Other ideas
- Finals
- For existing 9 team league - Add the Cam Luke suggested 4/5 elimination game
- For 10 team league move to 6 team finals. You could even make it 7 and have 6/7 elimination game,
- With 12 teams move to 8 teams in finals. As the conferences would be established now, it should be the top 8 teams, regardless of conference
- Preseason
- Replace preseason Blitz with 2-3 week elimination tournament (like NCAA)... seedings based on prev. year
- Teams limited to 3 additional games outside of this tournament (can be against other NBL sides or travelling NCAA/college teams)
- Imports & Next Star
- Keep 3 x import rule and 1 x Next star but minimum of 2 x locals must be starters. If next star starts, 3rd import can come off bench
- Next stars rule expansion
- Can be straight out of high school
- Draft and stash
- First year pro’s (if undrafted) - this will help the small market teams
Salary Cap
- Published salaries
- Set Hard Cap (outside of Marquee’s below, teams must be no higher than cap)
- Establish 2 x Marquee Player rule which doesn’t count towards cap
- Can be 2 x locals but max of 1 x Import
- Tax on Marquee’s assigned to league to support smaller market teams for next stars players
- Building Longterm League Culture
- Legend names for 2 of the other major individual awards
- Defensive Player of the Year - Damian Martyn Medal
- 6th man of the Year - Mike McKay Medal (1st winner) or Stephen Hoare medal (only 2 time winner)
- Get some good designers to improve the playing uniforms (also fix the colour issues for home (light) & aways (dark))
- Improve standard of officiating
- Improve commentary team
Baller#3
Years ago
Why anyone thinks more than 12 teams is a good idea I'll never get. With 10-12 teams I'd like to see each team playing each other 3 times (27, 30, 33 game schedule).
If all current teams stay then I'd like tasmania to come in 2021/22, Wellington to come in a couple years later. Only add a 12th team if and when the demand is there.
Jack Toft
Years ago
Gold Coast is a real funny area. Any sporting team fails there, regardless of the sport.
CT
Years ago
+ Hobart is enough.
10 teams is enough for the next 5-10 years
Rather have 10 teams with strong crowds and the same compact schedule.
Perthworld
Years ago
The Phoenix name was stupid to begin with. I'm sure they thought it was great at the time. Maybe they couldn't use the magic name due to Orlando.
KET
Years ago
+ Tasmania
Try to consolidate Illawarra
10 teams, 28 games play main rival 4 times everyone else 3 times ie Perth v Adelaide; Melbourne v SEM; Brisbane v Cairns, Sydney v Illawarra; Tassie v NZ
Top 5, adding the elimination game 4 v 5 so that it doesn't extend the playoffs more than a few days like I’ve been advocating
Too easy
12 teams, Wellington and Canberra, stop for a while.
UseTaHoop
Years ago
Not Gold Coast.
The largest employer by a long way is the Council. Where does the local sponsorship, and hospitality suite sales, going to come from.
If a local independent supermarket can pay for a hospitality suite at an AFL game for a Christmas party for staff, there can't be too much corporate support, and the AFL has more corporate support than any other sport in Australia.
Party town atmosphere doesn’t help athletes focus either. I’d love to go to games there, but it would be death to any team.
Get rid of Adelaide and move them to Mount Gambier.
Play more games, start season two weeks earlier, ten teams, play all sides four times. 36 matches home and away, play from Thursday to Monday.
Why do people keep saying Canberra? They can't afford the old SEABL competition or thenew NBL1. A basketcase.
Perthworld's big brother
Years ago
Why on earth are people insisting on more than 50% of league participants being in playoffs.
8 from 12. Fuck that.
Three to Make Two
Years ago
As a Hawks fan, I could be accused of bias, but I'm not sure of the OP's justification. He/she hasn't stated his/her criteria but it seems to lack any objectivity.
Looking at the list he (from now on I will use "he" in a no=gender specific sense) is looking to retain teams who have gone bankrupt in the last few years. He is looking at giving the Hawks licence to another former franchise who went broke.
We don't have a relegation system like EPL so, just coming last isn't a reason to boot teams. Otherwise, there's a few teams in OP's list who wouldn't be here (Cairns, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane).
If it's about financial viability, AFAIK Hawks are still liquid. Maybe not as rich as other teams, don't have a big a budget, but still a solvent business. And despite the small budget and current ladder position, astute observers will see that the Hawks have had several close games and have beaten the league leader. Also, they have made finals and GF several times in the last 10 years. So, they are generally competitive and each year, someone will be last, so that is not a reason to boot teams.
As a long term fan, I would like to see more teams in the league. I actually agree that Canberra should have a team, but not at the expense of the Hawks. They have a strong junior program and several domestic comps, and a decent-sized quite affluent population. I would like Hobart/Tassie to have a team. I can't understand why, as a capital city, they couldn't retain a team. They only need to be as financially viable as the Hawks.
TLDR: there is no rationale to boot the only remaining Foundation club but add a couple more.
Yinka Dare
Years ago
Phoenix is lame but at least it continues the mythical-themed names of the previous SEM-based clubs: Saints/Spectres/Giants/Magic/Titans/Dragons.
Giants were north Melbourne.
Perthworld's big brother
Years ago
Then giants and magic became Titans making Giants part of the ownership chain that my brother is talking about.
To the OP, please note the following:
1) Constantly saying "this hasn't been discussed for a while" doesn't make it true.
2) Nor does it stop you being a twat.
3) Repeatedly starting new threads just so you can have the first post, doesn't make your absurd opinions (eg an NBL team in Bendigo) any less retarded than the last 50 times you posted it.
4) You might as well just adopt the name "Bendigo Muppet-Troll" because you're not convincing anyone.
Please just stop
Perthworlds Possible Fat
Years ago
More than 50% in finals - maintains interest for more longer.
Nbl needs to look to Darwin.
Perthworld's big brother
Years ago
Perthworld's possible fat.
Cool username there just go easy on my brother he is special.
Perthworld
Years ago
Giants were north Melbourne.
Tassie has a new Premier and of today. Peter Gutwien. He's the dude who's been negotiation with Kestleman since the srart of the DEC stuff.
He said in his presser on his appointment as part of his speech that "WE can and will find a way for people to play in National Competitons" Sounds very positive and here's hoping the announcment will be made soon. There is only 6 weeks left to get it done.
D2.0
Years ago
He said in his presser on his appointment as part of his speech that "WE can and will find a way for people to play in National Competitons"
Translation: "We are playing LK off against the AFL to see who will give us the most money, with the likely end result that Neither will have a team in Tasmania."
The Tassie pollies keep making noise about an AFL team. The AFL won't give them one, but instead will offer more indirect subsidies to keep the Hawks and Norf playing games there.
We just have to hope that the AFL don't see a Tasmanian NBL team as an actual threat.
And that LK doesn't get distracted from his goal by all the politicking.
The only problem I see, is that last I heard KL's model relied on the government tipping in cash on an annual basis.
The afl crowds for north's have been crap in Hobart and hawks at Launceston average. Tasmania wants it’s own afl team and the supporters from Melbourne heading to either venue gets less as once you done it once or twice the novelty has worn off.
Bring in a Tasmanian basketball team.
Man when you say "Translation: "We are playing LK off against the AFL to see who will give us the most money, with the likely end result that Neither will have a team in Tasmania." You really show you nothing about the sporting machinations in Tasmania.
You whole post if full of incorrect statements. Do some research Dazz before gobbing off again.
The you top it off with "The only problem I see, is that last I heard KL's model relied on the government tipping in cash on an annual basis."
It's LK and BTW the local council the current Government and the Feds ahve all agreed they will contribute to the upgrade of the DEC.
Dazz if you don't know nothing about the subject please don't comment.
Why would people go and see Hawthorn or the Roos play if they aren't fans of those clubs...yeah maybe to go to an AFL game but realistically there aren’t that many people who’d go to a game just because it’s an AFL game
Don't tell the 15,000 people who do with many travelling from interstate to see "their" team. Any AFL in Tassie is better than none and many locals do indeed go. Will Tassie ever get an AFL side? Extremely unlikely.
D2.0
Years ago
"You really show you nothing about the sporting machinations in Tasmania."
I know how politics works, and I know how the AFL props up its two teams that play in Tassie. Clearly two things I guess you know nothing about.
"You whole post if full of incorrect statements."
OK, name one.
"It's LK and BTW the local council the current Government and the Feds ahve all agreed they will contribute to the upgrade of the DEC."
Firstly, get your mummy to tell your teacher, that your punctuation needs a lot of work.
Secondly, who said anything about the fucking DEC?
As I said, "The only problem I see, is that last I heard KL's (sic) model relied on the government tipping in cash on an annual basis."
Since your English Comprehension is also sub-par (another note from your mummy required) I'll spell it out for you:
At one point it was was reported that LK was seeking an ongoing subsidy from the State Government to run the NBL team. IIRC the amount was $1.5M pa.
As it stands, I don't know if that requirement has changed? (That's where the "last I heard" part of my statement comes in.)
Requiring a subsidy from the government makes sense. A Tasmanian team will not draw the crowds or the sponsorship of a bigger city, so an extra $1.5M could keep them very competitive.
The only issue is that it makes the team dependent on the continued goodwill of the politicians, and pollies are about as trustworthy as a dog guarding your lamb-chops.
The Tasmanian government props up no.th the afl teams at cost a lot more than 1.5 million that LK is asking if true. Basketball is a very popular sport in Tasmania.
Reality
Years ago
Change in state government leaders could be a negative or positive...
I'd suggest its a Massive positive as they'll want to make a splash for the state of tassie and put a mark on a big event/announcement!
Man you are a serial stalker Matt. Boards breaker and Stalker. Are you really that obsessed? Better get a life man. I am not Tasmanian.
Zac Barker
Years ago
My NBL Expansion Ideas
Adelaide 36ers
Port Adelaide Pirates
Perth Wildcats
West Coast Stingers
Darwin Dingoes
Cairns Taipans
Townsville Crocodiles
Brisbane Bullets
Gold Coast Blaze
Newcastle Falcons
Sydney Kings
Western Sydney Warriors
The Hawks
Canberra Capitals
Melbourne United
S.E. Melbourne Phoenix
Collingwood Magpies Basketball
Western Dragons
Geelong SuperCats
Tasmanian JackJumpers
Auckland Breakers
Wellington Warriors
Christchurch Spartans
Singapore Slingers
NBLTigers
Years ago
I know the Townsville Crocodiles went bust when the Mining Company close to Townsville closed down. Since then the locals couldn't support their team anymore.
Good idea would be to relocate Townsville Crocodiles franchise to Darwin. Just name them the Darwin Crocodiles. Once Darwin has a team then bring back the Canberra Cannons to make the league national across Australia.
Then focus on another team in New Zealand etc. Wellington. Change Breakers to just Auckland Breakers. 12 teams would be a great for the league, then focus a team in the Asian market. Everyone once a piece of the NBL now. Before when the NBL trialed it it never worked because the league wasn’t regarded a great league then.
NBLTigers
Years ago
Ket, it looks like the NBL copied your idea with your your fixture idea lol.
The only difference is that the NBL didn't consider the 4/5 elimination game which is a massive mistake from the league.
Many members will be annoyed if their team isn’t in contention for finals midway through the season.
At least having an Elimination final for 4/5 makes sense with 10 teams.
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