Low attendance for a Monday night, not really a surprise is it.

I didn't even realise there was a game on. Monday nights? Come on now Larry.

There's been a game on Monday nights nearly every round so far this season and will be again next Monday too.

That's an average of 5,581 per game, which is 5,581 more than last season

The joint is empty and most of the tickets are give aways

Those crowds are reasonable, until the Monday night game.

Match up rubbish!
Your team is your team no matter who they play.

What's melbourne United’s average? I wonder if SEM have taken some attendance away from United or whether SEM has grabbed new fans.

I wonder what their membership is? 2,500-3,500?

It’s possible those numbers won’t look as great as more games occur and as the landmark games get averaged out (games v Melbourne, v ball etc)

I would imagine it’s very tough to build a supporter base in one year even if it’s SEM, if they average 4,500 over the course of the season with Melbourne United growing then that’s a remarkably good effort and shows real positive signs.

Out of interest, What did the Titans & Tigers used to get back in the day? I remember the Vic Giants iteration was a disaster playing out of MSAC and getting hundreds of people

In 2001 or 2002 just before the Titans folded and just before McPeake moved the Tigers to The Cage, both teams were averaging 4,000-5,000.

Tigers were around 4,300 and Titans were around 5,000, from memory.

As you say, Giants returned in 2004ish under Peter Fiddes and crowds were terrible. Meanwhile McPeake jacked up the prices and Tigers went through a 8 or 9 year period averaging around 3,000 or less at The Cage.

This year United is averaging say 8,500 and Phoenix 5,500? So say 14,000ish compared to 9,000ish in 2001-02

WTF is the fascination with Monday night games. Must be a killer for the clubs.

You really only need Thursday to Sunday games. Maximise night games. There are enough time zones to have most games at night, and double headers every night and perhaps a triple header some weeks.

What is this fascination with having some nights each week that have no NBL basketball to watch?
;)

Nah I agree it's a bit of a culture shift, but over the summer holiday period I think it could be a goer. People aren't really in that mode in October & November though.
Kids need to start nagging their parents harder to take them to the basketball.

Shouldn't really expect the team to have that much of a fan base yet. I mean why should you go see South East Melbourne after you just went to the United game on the weekend? Playing in the same venue, little point of difference, games within days of eachother, not as exciting as United. These are all reasons why people won't have made a switch yet and why new fans haven't really jumped on board. It will take some time.

Personally, the best thing for South East Melbourne will be if/when they move to Knox and become a genuinely local team for that region. Until then they're trying to dip their hand into the United pie and they're gonna have an uphill battle.

Take out the LaMelo Ball game and they are averaging about 4K. I think that's pretty reasonable for a first-year club with a heap of home games in a hurry to start the season, it's pretty comparable with the Dragons in their final season when they were the only tenant at Melbourne Park.

It's good for TV I think. Not sure I've missed a Monday night game on TV yet.

You'll find that Monday is the TV game!

It will never be as good as it was in the Tigers and Dragons days, a real hatred and real rivalry that appears to be manufactured by the owners of the league, not naturally evolved as it was back then.

Having said that, we are in a new era and the kids will not remember the old teams, so it is what it is and I believe it will develop further into a true rivalry one day.

First season in, two teams in Melbourne has not been a failure, so ease up on the subjective comparisons and give it time maybe...

By the way, Jack Toft is right too...

Melbourne United are averaging 6,569 per home game, so far this season

My mistake. I meant to say 8,569

^^Anon I agree, I guess our points are similar, the old rivalries were born out of natural neighbouring Association style hatred of one another on court, it's not quite the same but given time I think the Phoenix v United rivalry will develop.

The TV and media attention given to it will push that narrative along and the kids will know no different...

For those who are interested, Perth are averaging 12,818 and Sydney are averaging 10,008 (obviously the record breaking crowd has boosted this number up quite a bit)

Would have liked to see SEM build their home games out of Margaret Court. I understand its been used for basketball before (Aus Vs Phillipines ?) and could create a better atmosphere with the amount of people coming, packed into a smaller venue. I think SEM have done a great job, but watching on TV, the vast empty seats at some games in a 10,500 seat stadium, is not a good luck IMO.

Brisbane need to work on those numbers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSn1g-6h1OQ

Crowds are important, no doubt, they add atmosphere and support to the organisation in many ways, however it is the TV and media platforms that will generate the majority of NBL club's sponsorship interest and financial stability I believe...

We can't look at these clubs individually, it needs to be a part of the whole NBL as a collective, supporting the clubs across the board no matter what. Going solo is not an option, it is likely to create the problems of the past, just sayin'...

The Phoenix have been also slightly unlucky with the scheduling whereby they had to play two recent Saturday afternoon games when there was horse racing on in town, and then yesterdays Monday game being a school night - my primary aged kids didn't get home until well after 10pm last night.

On the flip side, United's attendance numbers are probably helped a little that they have hosted 2 of the 3 throw downs and their Monday game fell on the eve of a public holiday allowing more families to attend.

I thought that it was interesting that there wasn't a live singing of the national anthem last night for the first time - with just a recorded track being played, and the cheerleading group wasn't in attendance - possibly due to the fact that most are probably school age and it was a school night?

They're doing far better than Sydney did in their first year(s) back in the NBL. And I suspect with fewer give-aways. IIRC, some numbers published by NBL implied Sydney were giving away as many as half of the tickets and still getting crowds of around 3000.

As pointed out above, Brisbane likewise have struggled to draw crowds ever since they returned to the league.

The numbers above tell me that SEM are doing well for year 1.

" I wonder if that amount of people brings in enough revenue to sustain such an expensive team."

As per my post above, they're getting something like 5,000 more per game than they were back in 2015. They're probably all paying customers too, so that'll be an extra 70,000 tickets sold per season. What do tickets cost? Should be enough to pay the extra wage bill and maybe with change left over. Then add the increased corporate sponsorship and Sydney should be doing okay.

The crowd numbers across the NBL look very healthy, except Illawarra and Brisbane.

I'm particularly impressed with NZ and Adelaide

United played a few home games at MCA, back in 2014-15 (and perhaps 2015-16 too?).

It’s a much more enclosed, smaller arena despite holding 7,500. For a smaller game with a crowd of 3,000 or 4,000, you’ll have much better atmosphere in MCA than Melbourne Arena.

Then again, they already have Knox for a few games. And you’d want the derbies at Melbourne, plus maybe matchups against Sydney and Illawarra. Would 3 regular home courts, with 4 or 5 games each be too much?

I would guess that with both playing at MA costs would be reduced as it can stay in basketball set-up more often. There will be around 30 games there this season, mostly with good crowds, that makes the NBL an important tenant where it used to be a nuisance.

It would be good if the introduction of Phoenix effectively reduces costs or "spread costs" at MA for both clubs opposed to if just one operated there.


Re Crowds:
Perth 12,818 // Always the standard setter
Sydney 10,008 // Skewed with the recent game. 8,500-9,000 is a happy average IMO
Melbourne 8569 // Decent average, i'm guessing would be hoping to get it to 9k
Adelaide 7148 // Good average for Adelaide, hope it stays around the mark
New Zealand 6840 // Good average for NZ
SE Melbourne 5581 // Skewed a bit, if they maintain an average of 4,500+ they'd be content
Cairns 4350 // Noiiiiice Cairns
Illawarra 3185 // What are previous years for Illawarra?
Brisbane 2895 // Bad - Really need to average 4,000+

Move SEM to the Gold Coast

I cant see a team lasting in this league long term averaging less than 5,000 per home game honestly.

Regional teams should be aiming for 5k, capital cities need to be aiming for 8k. Brisbane need to lift.

Again the question about Sydney's viability. Seriously?

Having followed them since the early 90s they have survived on far lower crowds and far less exposure. They have a much wealthier backer than they have ever had and better corporate governance.

Tickets are surprisingly affordable and the game day experience is excellent, so they get repeat business. Competitors like A-League and NRL rely heavily on male support in Sydney whereas Kings are a much more family-oriented experience, which bodes well for the long-term support of the club.

These are the crowds they get after 6 years of mostly incompetent play. Once they consistently become competitive I'd expect their crowds to be 10k+ regardless of ticket giveaways.

Full credit to SEM for what they have done to build a base from nothing. MU built off former tiger base. Kings built off former Kings base. Bullets off former Bullets base. This is a brand new franchise built from scratch in a league and marketplace in Melbourne that is competitive. MU do an amazing job and to be making a ripple is a good result. They had 3 games at Melb Arena in 9 days. Monday night crowd they were always up against it. Sounds like an NBL scheduling challenge for the league.

Fair call, Anon. Note, though, that they've played 3 games and I'd say the variation in crowd sizes reflects the interest in the opposition rather than in the Bullets:

Sydney - ~3,700
Perth - ~2,800
Cairns - ~2,000

Bullets also were pulling crowds in the 4,500 range for 6:30 Friday night games at Boondall last season. I imagine the trip up the M1 to Boondall would be similarly difficult to the one down the M3 to Nathan?

Let's hope there're a couple of thousand Bullets fans who simply can't make Friday night games down south.

After 5 home games of the 2018/19 season, the 36ers were averaging 5,961 at Titanium. Highest - 6,636 (vs Kings). Lowest - 5,349 (vs Hawks).

After 5 home games of 2019/20 the 36ers are averaging 7,221 at the Entertainment Centre. Highest - 8,252 (vs Kings). Lowest - 6,288 (vs Taipans).

While 7,221 would still fit comfortably inside Titanium, there is room for improvement as the Ent Cent is able to hold 10k compared to 8k. Of course, if the 36ers went on a Marty Clarke type losing streak it could easily drop too.

But the Phoenix don't play at Titanium or the Entertainment Centre.

Someone has clearly inhaled too many fumes from his car's exhaust.

SEM will take some time to get the game presentation right.

Been to 2 games and its isn't great but the curtains up to hide empty seats, the sh*t band and a general lack of any atmosphere doesn't help the game presentation.

In hindsight SEM feel like they should be in a smaller venue and make it become a wanted ticket as at the moment they can't give away tickets!

Talking to a number of courtside ticket holders many won't be back at the price they paid next season so expect SEM will have to take a hit in that area.