It would follow in the recent tradition to choose a previous assistant as the new Boomers head coach. If Lemanis doesn't continue on after 2020, it seems wise to choose an assistant given there is a learning curve in coaching international basketball.

Don't tell anon-Dave that a player like Gliddon was a unanimous selection for all coaches, which means Weaver would've selected him too.

Don't make excuses for the Gliddon decision that was a howler. The guy is a mediocre NBL player had no business being on a WC team.

Some things are a matter of opinion,
Others are conjecture,
and some are hypothetical speculation.

But then some are simply facts:
For backup guards he invited 3 of his boys from the Bullets: Sobey, Gliddon, and Caddee. Caddee FFS.
Capable Veterans, with Olympic experience, such as Martin and Lisch were apparently not even invited. Nor were young up and comers, just his boys.
He selected two of his boys in the final 12.
They were so useless that that they played no part.
As a direct result, Patty Mills (and Joe Ingles) averaged an insane 34 minutes per game, playing every 2nd day, and Dellavedova over 30.
This fatigue lead directly to our losses to Spain and France.
But for that, we would have been in the Gold Medal game.

If you fire Lemanis, then Longley and Weaver will quit. Who can you name offhand could talk Australian NBA players to piss away 6 weeks of their off time just 2 fly around the world on Commercial Jets with always a chance of ending their career for no money . Seems like you have to start all over. I don't see it happening. I mean after all one free throw made would have guaranteed them a silver medal. They ended up being 3rd in the world over all. Ranking wise. longly just did it because he was bored and Weaver only did it because he liked coaching Australians and that's what he's doing full-time now.

Lemanis is the most successful Boomers coach of all time, at a time where the talent in international basketball is by far the toughest it's ever been. Australia is one of only two countries to make the top four in the past two major tournaments along with Spain.

What he has done with the Boomers offensively (some of it in tandem with Gleeson) is recognised by top coaches around the world, and he brilliantly tapped into Weaver for a quality defensive strategy.

In terms of the Bullets, the first season was sabotaged by injury, but since then he hasn't quite got the recruiting right, especially this season where they need more athleticism. That said, if they make some smart changes and make the playoffs again then they will be on track with two playoff appearances in a row in a very tough league.

Lemanis has pulled off the greatest con job in Australian basketball. Carved out a huge coaching career for himself on the back of a few early titles at New Zealand. Like many posters have mentioned his record since has been average at best, any other coach would have been given their marching orders by now. He appears to have free reign at Brisbane to do whatever he likes and he continues to bring spud imports over and Brisbane under perform every season.

Totally agree with the comments about gassing out our guards at the worlds as well. Players don't play for the boomers because of lemanis lol. Their is a patriotic culture established by bogut mills ingles and Delly. The younger players respect them and see if it’s good enough for those nba players to come and sacrifice its good enough for them. Once they move on and Simmons/bolden/exam carry the can who really knows if that same spirit will be there

We need a 'calm coach power rankings'

We need a 'calm coach power rankings'

#8 Trevor " squeaky voice of 12yo boy" Gleeson

"Nomatter how many mistakes he made at the World Cup, people just keep on defending him"

What mistakes? Lemanis didn't make it so that Ben Simmons would pull out, Exum would be injured, and that we'd have no reliable back ups at the 1,2, and 3 spots, leaving us burned out at the end of the tournament.

Was going undefeated through 6 games of the tournament and narrowly losing to the eventual gold medallist another mistake? Was Patty Mills missed freethrow his fault?

"His team selection was atrocious, his strategy flawed, and his tactics poor.
Once again he treated the National Team like his personal toy, rewarding his proteges with places, and that ultimately cost us a minimum Silver medal.
Jet still his fanboys unite to defend him."

Mind using some citations here? What is the coaching strategy you would have used? Sure, Gliddon and Sobey were called in as Boomers. They are also both Bullets. But who else would you have had at guard spots that were healthy? Name some names before you run your mouth about what he shouldn't have done. What SHOULD he have done? Brought in some kids who've never played against men because they have good Youtube Mixtapes?

"Once again he has made a pigs' breakfast out of Brisbane. He's yet again assembled an unbalanced grab-bag of players, installed his latest love-child as Point-Guard, and proceeded to stink up the NBL."

What kind of budget do you think the Bullets have? Here's a hint: It's not a lot. They're not picking up budget nobodies like Braun and Singler because they're flush with cash.

"picking players like sobey, kay, Gliddon, barlow for the just concluded World cup was just insane. Should have picked guys like Adel, Green, Bolden, Makur who should be the core of the national team for the next decade."

Yeah, picking the guy who dominated boards in Kay was idiotic. Should have picked up a bunch of kids who've done nothing yet but MIGHT do something in the future. This logic is stupid. It's like, no, we don't want our teeth done by professional mid-level dentists, let's pick up the kids still mid way through learning who look good. THAT is how you get some nice teeth!

Some people want to treat the Boomers like a development team. it's fucking insane. Nick Kay absolutely showed out at the World Cup and anyone who sees it any different doesn't know anything.


"Don't make excuses for the Gliddon decision that was a howler. The guy is a mediocre NBL player had no business being on a WC team."

That's fine to say if you can name a realistic replacement at that spot.


"
Alfonso Ball
A few hours ago

Let's not forget that Lemanis tanked to Angola in 2014 World Cup too. And if he didn't tank then he lost to Angola. Angola. Lemanis is also responsible for the Boomers losing to Japan. Japan. Only Lemanis could do that."

Only someone with a limited memory could believe that. Australia has a long history of dropping games they shouldn't have, starting with Angola. ANGOLA. In 1988, and running all the way to the current day. in fact, when it comes to losing games they shouldn't, the Boomers have been much more consistent with Lemanis in beating the teams they should beat than in any point in history before. Lemanis has the best record of any coach in Boomers history BY FAR. Don't believe me? Look up every other coach and compare.

"Goorjian is not only the winningest coach in NBL history but in Australian sporting history - and Weaver is going to suggest that his boss Lemanis is more successful? That really pisses me off."

And Goorjian doesn't have anything near the Boomers record Lemanis has, so what the hell are you even saying here?

How much longer? As long as it takes for you to come up with a decent argument you muppet. In other words, we wait an eternity. Of all the stupid sh*t I have read on here....

Beautifully put "ME".

Alfonso and other muppets, would you like to google the current FIBA world rankings? Check Australia's ranking in the years before Lemanis.

For one, Josh Green was injured, so he wasn't even an option in the first place, so maybe try something else there?

For two, Deng A-fucking-Del has done NOTHING. Had a cup of coffee in the NBA and didn't prove anything. Was given the opportunity in Boomers camp and by all accounts had a poor camp. What do you want, for selectors to pick a guy who is struggling to perform in camp because he has a few nice dunks on YouTube?

Seriously shut the fuck up. You're embarrassing yourselves.

"They were so useless that that they played no part.
As a direct result, Patty Mills (and Joe Ingles) averaged an insane 34 minutes per game, playing every 2nd day, and Dellavedova over 30."

Yes, because the Boomers had so many other quality options at guard, such as? Wait, no. Only Simmons, who seems to have been influenced by his agent (who happened to pull all of his other clients out of the World Cup, except for Joseph turning up late, giving Canada no chance to integrate him into the team).

It can be argued that Lemanis over-played Mills/Ingles/Delly; but the structure of the tournament made every game -- and every minute -- crucial, so it was a risk if Lemanis had not gone with such a tight rotation. We may have never advanced as far as we did.

"No I am not Green and adel's agent, but I know they are better players than gliddon, barlow, kay and sobey. There is a reason why they are going to play in the nba, but the likes of sobey, kay, gliddon are not, they are simply better players."

Well that's evidence of an extremely simplistic understanding of basketball that doesn't take into account team dynamics, and the reasons why NBA teams pick up certain players that doesn't always mean "better players". Adel is picked up as a prospect and a "fixer-upper" because he has NBA length and athleticism and potential. He was given the chance to prove that he is a "simply better player" than Gliddon and Sobey in camp, and failed to do so. He also failed to prove he could fit a role in a system as well as Gliddon and Sobey did. But hey, he looks like a baller, and he can dunk, and that amuses small minds.

"It can be argued that Lemanis over-played Mills/Ingles/Delly; but the structure of the tournament made every game -- and every minute -- crucial, so it was a risk if Lemanis had not gone with such a tight rotation. We may have never advanced as far as we did."

People are basically blaming Lemanis for Australia's lack of depth in those positions and when they come up with examples of other players who could've played, they're some 12 year old who has the nicest pair of Nikes they've seen. It's ridiculous and pathetic to read.

"that is because lemanis is taking charge of the best boomers squad of all time with so many nba players. you muppet"

How do you rate the quality and depth of talent on other national teams? Better than Spain? Or France? Or Lithuania? Greece? Serbia? Brazil? Italy? Turkey? How about Slovenia? Germany? Canada?

Australia barely featured as a top 5 chance in anyone's pre-World Cup predictions articles, outside of Australian media. Also according to the bookies.

"Spin it what you like ME, gliddon, barlow, sobey are not better than adel.
You sound like you know more than nba scouts, stop embarrassing yourself."

I don't claim to know more than them. But I understand why they recruit the way they do.

Now, I'll simplify it because you're struggling with it. An NBA team will recruit a 5 our of 10 player (let's say, Adel) over a 6 out of 10 player (let's say Kay), if the 5 out of 10 player has the potential to be a 8 out of 10 player, while the 6 out of 10 player has maybe hit his prime, and that is as good as he's going to be.

So who is the better player RIGHT NOW? The 6 out of 10. So who do you recruit RIGHT NOW if you want results RIGHT NOW and not to develop a player over a few seasons?

Come on now... this shouldn't be too hard. I've spoonfed you the answer.

"And notice how they don't actually reply to any of the obvious problems, instead resorting to name-calling and spouting gibberish.
"

The hell you even talking about? I've replied directly to your quotes about the problems. You're just being purposely stupid now.


"He's responsible for us being ranked 3rd in the world. But not to blame for us failing to live up to that ranking??"

You're a simple person, aren't you? Clearly the results are due to both the players and coaching, and not just one or the other. We were a Patty Mills freethrow away from the gold medal game.

"Fact is we have FAILED at two major tournaments."

Failed by what logic? Were we better than fourth on talent? Is equal best ever result a failure? Did 28 other teams who came below us fail too? It's not like we had Team USA talent or something. There were easily half a dozen teams or more equally or more talented than us. The wins against Lithuania and France were considered upsets. We almost beat Spain. It wasn't a medalling tournament but in context it is hard to call a failure.

"Since you seem to think that an Australian coach is the only way to go, and NBL success was the basis for Lemanis' appointment, lets just look at all the Aussie coaches who are better than Lemanis:

Goorj
Gleeson
Bevo
Vickerman
Joey"

Oh, Mr Brian "it's a success if we make it to the quarterfinals" Goorjian, hey? You fail to call fourth a success and yet you want to replace Lemanis with a guy whose never come higher than 8th?

I'm sorry. You're an idiot.

"Yeah, Paul, "ME", Gus3232, rjd,
It doesn't take long for Lemanis' fanboys to cumm jerking to his defence.
And notice how they don't actually reply to any of the obvious problems"

The posts in support of Lemanis have been in direct response to the claimed "obvious problems". Anyway, I'd always prefer to be grouped with knowledgeable contributors like paul than useless anons that repeat the same spurious arguments.

"my comment was in response to your comment 'Australia had lower fiba ranking before the lemanis era'"


- Do you agree that Australia's results have somehow elevated its ranking up to 3rd, in probably the most talented era of world basketball, ahead of several more talented teams? It's not much more of a step to suggest that Australia has actually overachieved.

- Do you concede that Australia overachieved based on surpassing pre-tournament expectations in both tournaments? If you go by pre-tournament bookie odds, that's definitely true for both 2016 and 2019.

Just stating facts here, unlike the other side of the argument in this thread that can only produce spurious arguments.

"
Sobey: - Mertin, McCarron, Lisch, Gibson, McDowell-White, Norton"

Okay, so defense-only 35 year-old Martin. The injured-at-the-time Lisch, the guy who has not played much pro ball in McDowell-White, and the guy who is behind tge afformentioned 35 year-old in Norton?

Great list, man. Only guy you might have had a point on could've been McCarron.

"Gliddon: - Lisch, McCarron, Madgen, Stephens, Stiendl"

Injured Lisch, Old-ass do-nothing Madgen, young kid who hasn't done anything Stephens, and consistent disappointment Steindl? Great list.


"Barlow: - Simmons, Bolden, Motum, Adel, Bairstow, McCarthy, Reath"

Oh my fucking god. The mindboggling idiocy continues. SIMMONS AGENT PULLED HIM OUT HE WAS NOT FUCKING AVAILABLE. Bolden pulled out because his precious ass couldn't stand to earn his minutes - NOT AVAILABLE. Motum at first lost his spot to Motum, and then returned to start his season in Europe and was rendered NOT AVAILABLE. Bairstow was injured. McCarthy and Reath weren't available. Adel doesn't even play the same fucking position.

Idiot. You are one.

Check out Bolden's NBA stats or lack thereof. He isn't that good.
Adel and McDowellWhite will be good.... Eventually, it was a 2019 world cup team not 2023.

Barlow was a very last minute inclusion with almost no time to prepare. Thank Bolden for being soft.
Gliddon probably wasn't deserving of a spot but it's all past tense so why get worked up over it.

The troll is feasting fellas, time to stop throwing the food out!

"ME, I would rather have WMW than the useless gliddon and sobey.
As least he povides the team athleticism, defense, decent play maker."

Okay, basing that on what? His nothing stats in Germany, or everything he hasn't done yet in the G League or NBA now his 2 way deal was cancelled?

I doubt you've even watched a full game of the guy to say any of this, let alone enough to say conclusively that as of today he is better than any of those players.

Dude, just give it up. You're entitled to your opinion. You don't have to like Lemanis, Barlow, Sobey or Gliddon. But don't keep pressing points on people that have been comprehensively smashed. And stop with the fucking attitude. People wouldn't speak to you like garbage if you actually raised points like an adult and not like a 12 year old. Your YouTube mixtape up and comers are NOT more prepared or better for the international game than seasoned players, and that is why very few international coaches put them on their teams for major tournaments unless they're insanely good already. The guys you listed are not insanely good already. They were not the difference between us medalling or not. You need to find another case to push, because to people that know basketball, they roll their eyes at the things you're saying.

Nostraballmus sees that Lemanis will keep his job until Tokyo because he is contracted till then you idiots.

"do you know that Bogut's nba stats were also very bad in his last season? yet he became nbl mvp and was one of the best boomers in the last WC"


Yeah, and Bogut has a body of work spanning almost 15 years to prove he can play. What does Bolden have?

Just stop.

Nostraballmus sees that Lemanis will keep his job until Tokyo because he is contracted till then you idiots.

BuT lEmAnIs Is BuIlDiNg A cUlTuRe In BrIsBaNe AnD yOu PeOpLe DoNt GeT iT

Nostraballmus concludes he is a wanker who is not funny

I love how people try to knock Bogut's latter NBA career. Golden State Warriors could have called basically any centre in the world to come with them in their journey to an NBA Championship series - they chose Andrew Bogut. I don't think too many people in their position choose Jonah Bolden for the same purpose, so comparing the two is idiocy at its finest.

Make no mistake about it, Andrew Bogut could play in the NBA right now.

Because Bolden is young enough to play a full NBA season without his body breaking down.

We need a 'calm coach power rankings'

I'll start things off from the bottom: #9 Joey "Male Menopause" Wright.

#8 Trevor " squeaky voice of 12yo boy" Gleeson

Pity that as usual we can't have a rational discussion without pages of histrionics from the usual suspects.

Here's a tip, If you have:
5 or more posts in this thread,
Have individual posts longer than some Books of The Bible,
have resorted to calling people names,
then you need to have a cup of tea and a good lie down.

I'd also point out that if your defence of Lemanis involves defending the selection of Sobey, Gliddon, or Barlow, based on merit, then you should seek professional help.

I get that the talent pool wasn't very deep, and if your opinion is that there was NOBODY worth taking, then that is an opinion we can at least respect. Furthermore, if you believe its appropriate for the Coach to then fill those empty spots with his pet project players, well again you are entitled to your opinion. I personally do not, but we can agree to disagree.

The simple fact remains that those 3 contributed nothing. Gliddon and Barlow wandered onto court for a few seconds in one game, and Sobey was given a couple of minutes and a basket. Literally useless.
I happily concede that it was slim pickings, but looking at it logically, nobody could have been worse. LUKE Martin could not have been worse.

Personally I have always been puzzled that McCarron didn't get a look in. Maybe he just didn't impress at the camp, but again he couldn't have been worse than Gliddon.

re: Gliddon/McCarron I'm sort of in the same boat. I mean, I get the idea behind having some (theoretical) shooters on the bench, but is Gliddon that much better a shooter than McCarron to make up for all the other stuff McCarron does in addition to shoot? My only real problem with having Lemanis as national coach is these type of conflict of interest decisions where he picks his Brisbane boys over other players. And it might just be familiarity instead of pure favouritism, but all the same it looks a little off.

The actual results of our team however have been solid at the previous world cup and Olympics. We beat some good teams, and lost to good teams, but we were in all games. That's just how it goes. It's disappointing to not medal with our strongest team yet, but I'm sure a lot of other nations felt the same. Overall I think we were well coached and Lemanis got the best out of the guys he had.

In the NBL, assuming Lemanis' has a big role in recruitment, the Bullets have made the same mistake every year re: roster balance and import selections. That more than anything (Bairstow's injuries didn't help, to be fair) are why they've sputtered along so far. It's a fatal mistake in a league so tight, where come finals it's often a single loss that sees you miss out on the top 4 or home court advantage.

This D2.0 person seems quite perculiar.

It doesn't get any easier for Lemanis tonight, coming up against

Trevor Gleeson, regarded by many as the best coach in Australia

I think the main thing is teams need back ups to go to at every position. Gliddon and Sobey were among the best available. Other names that are raised weren't picked for the many reasons I've already addressed. I'm sure the Boomers expected easier games out of Senegal and DR that didn't pan out that way. We lost out on a medal because of depth primarily and I think we should have thta fixed next year

Sobey, Gliddon, Barlow. They were our 10th-12th men. It would be great to have 10th-12th men come in and contribute, but not many teams had that. Spain essentially went with a 9-man rotation. Early in the tournament they gave their 10th-12th men some time against weaker 1st round opponents. Not sure that Australia had that same luxury available to them given the group they were in. Hopefully the coaching staff now realizes the value in being able to rest our stars. France went deeper. That might've been the difference in getting that bronze. But going deeper also disrupts chemistry, so it's a risk. What was the cause of France's capitulation in the semi-final?

I actually had Gliddon in my WC team: decent size wing with enough length to cover opposition wings, should be defensively capable at that level internationally, good perimeter shooter. That's the foundation of a useful 3&D role player. I was expecting him to be a low minutes rotation player when selected, taking some minutes usually given to Broekhoff.

Remember, Lemanis went with a deeper rotation in Rio. Something triggered this change. Was it lack of preparation time in lead-up games to integrate Gliddon/Sobey/Barlow? A realization that they were simply not good enough, too much of a burden to offer them minutes? Or just a change in strategy that it was not necessary to go so deep? After the social media meldown, was he concerned about perceived favouritism if Glidden/Sobey played more minutes? It'd be ironic if it was the latter reason. Either blame Lemanis for not using these guys to rest our core, or concede that it was necessary for team chemistry to go with a 9-man rotation. You can't have both.

The only alternative argument is the selection controversy, which is hardly controversial. The crux of this argument, if applied logically, is that selecting other players -- and given them minutes! -- would've provided rest for our tired backcourt, Mills/Delly/Ingles. It was our BACKCOURT that was overplayed. If you make this argument, you must choose a GUARD(/WING) with ball-handling capabilities that can take minutes away from these guys! Who is it?

McCarron? I like him, probably personally prefer him to Sobey on the A-team, but is he really that much better than Sobey? On the open market, he's probably seen to be worse.
Martin? Was he even available?
Lisch? Wasn't he also injured? Regardless, he struggled in Rio at the higher level. Not convincingly any better that Sobey.
McDowell-White? A young guy that has zero international experience, not even in qualifiers, no experience playing in the Lemanis system, with no experience at a level anything close to the World Cup?
Others suggest in this thread: Gibson, Norton, Madgen, Stephens, Steindl. WTF?

Who would've changed EVERYTHING? Simmons. He was the missing ingredient.*







* A healthy Exum might've been very useful too.

Experience in a system matters, for those who keep just throwing random names out there. It helps to know when to zig and when to zag, and why you're where you are on the court, and all the plays. Highlight dunks don't = knowing how to move with the particular defense to provide weak-side coverage, or any other machination of the defense and offense that means being in the right place at the right time and allowing the entire unit to be effective.

Either way, the Boomers did not have access to appropriate options on the bench to rest our main guys. And the guys everyone suggests either aren't in the positions we lacked, aren't experienced, or flat out just aren't any good anyway. Andrej put together the best squad he could have with the pieces he had available, and that team was burning through most of the world cup. Fatigue set in. Things then went sideways. That is what happened. If Mills, Ingles and Delly had consistent back ups that could spot 10 minutes again I firmly believe they would have won the gold medal this year. But I am in no way convinced any of the other options being spoken of were appropriate at all.

We would've won gold if Mills had've made the FT against Spain, or if the refs hadn't called that nonexistent foul on Bogut.

"Either blame Lemanis for not using these guys to rest our core, or concede that it was necessary for team chemistry to go with a 9-man rotation. "

I meant to say you have to choose one of these two options. The only alternative is to argue some alternative player/s should've played, which as I stated, ought to include a guard to give Mills/Delly/Ingles rest.

So argue either:
1) don't play Sobey/Gliddon
2) play Sobey/Gliddon x amount to rest Delly/Mills/Ingles
3) play [insert guard(s)] x amount to rest Delly/Mills/Ingles

Given it is difficult to convincingly argue that option 3 is any better than option 2, if you are arguing option 3, you should also argue that option 2 is better than option 1.

Underachieved by producing the best result in a major tournament in Boomers history with the best chemistry and most fluent play ever, then coaching the team to an even better result overall in the next major tournament with a less deep team?

To underachieve, it suggests that you expected a medal. Meanwhile, no bookies nor any FIBA experts ranked Boomers as a top 3 team in either tournament. Yet with that consistency, Australia is now ranked number 3 in the world, behind only USA and Spain.

So if Australia has underachieved over this period, it means that you expected Australia to outperform Spain and/or USA. So which team did you think we should be better than? Spain? USA? Or both?

Otherwise, you should appreciate the Boomers recent successes in major tournaments, despite failing to medal.

"The minimum result in major tourneys with this group of players should be at least bronze medal, failing to achieve this should be considered as failure."

You're a fucking idiot mate. Have you looked at the other groups of players in these tournaments or not? Pretty sure Serbia, USA, Spain, France, Lithuania all could easily consider themselves ahead of us at the world cup just gone. But you contine to show you know nothing about nothing.

I'm not going to keep replying to you, but know you're an idiot.