I take it he offered an opinion on something you don't favour, so now he's obliged to offer an opinion on everything you do favour?

A bit rich from you Isaac, you previously blocked one of my forum posts numerous times on the basis that you didn't think it was worthwhile

The topic about the time you saw Aleks Maric crossing the road?

Can you spell out the relevance here? This is a private forum with some level of moderation whereby I prune less-relevant posts as I see fit, often because there is legal risk (either from the post or those likely to come in reply) unique to my situation as the operator. As I told you then, there was more risk than upside, and as it played out there were comments in reply that could potentially antagonise people and invite the sort of legal emails I prefer to avoid because I don't have enough time to improve the forum let alone deal with lawyers.

This topic is about the expectation that anyone offering an opinion on a subject is obliged to then offer opinions on all other topics, as ranked in importance by OP. It didn't remind me of your Aleks Maric Experience, but rather the way people expect a Muslim commentator to denounce horrible behaviour after every terrorist attack.

Actually, maybe the relevance is that as a private operator, I can moderate when asked, when I have time, or when I think it appropriate. Just like LeBron can offer his opinion when he wants, when he thinks it relevant, when he thinks he's informed on an issue, or when it's Tuesday and there are tacos.

Also waiting for LeBron's take on Brexit and Saudi Arabia too, I suppose?

#BlackLivesMatter, not Asian.

#causewaybooks

Poe's Law!

Cheeky!

Ok I'll use this forum how I feel OP wanted it (forgetting him singling out Lebron).

So could this mean that say a brand like Spalding could come out and say that they support Hong Kong and try and get their basketballs and apparel and other sporting equipment produced there?

Could Spalding try and get those items made in America?

I know that the cost to produce would increase exponentially but if the quality is still the same, if not better then a brand such as Spalding which is recognisable and has a solid reputation then surely they could handle it.

If Spalding are owned by Chinese then please swap Spalding for another brand that fits those type of attributes.

'020, LeBron is American, not Chinese. You might see how that gives him a significant interest in commenting on one issue and not another.

I think it'd be great to see him say something but I don’t think he’s obliged to.


If anyone doesn’t think there is legal risk from anonymous comments, they’re an idiot. I have dozens of legal emails from instances over the years.

Crazy that someone would speak on something that directly affects them and people they know, rather than something on the other side of the world that they probably know about as much as or less than the average person.

If he spoke on police shootings or about anything else domestic, it was never "he's alienating half the country and costing himself money, admirable", it was “stay in your lane”. But now it’s about money.

Of course. Goal posts move, and the point remains for good folks like Reality that LeBron and his colleagues should just shut up and dribble so he can enjoy watching them on TV without feeling uncomfortable.

Just an FYI

If someone does not support my view = they are wrong, should shut up and are un-[nationalityhere]

If someone does support my view = they are right and should be heard, everyone better respect freedom of speech

& anyone who believes to the contrary is a bum.

Its more about the fact that many of these athlete state they need to use there platform to speak out against injustice to educate and bring light to a situation.

This would appear to be pretty cut and dry when an authoritarian regime is clearly trying to shut down free speech of a foreign entity/citizen and the evidence is clear they are shooting at people in the streets and lets not mention the Uyghur "education" camps.

The NBA players seemed happy to use there platform for the Trayvon Martin shooting and go hard at what they saw as an injustice well before the courts etc got involved and the players didn't stop to "educate" themseleves before speaking out, not forgetting the shooter was found not guilty on all charges

So in context its clear the NBA players only speak out when it doesn't effect the hip pocket

I would have thought everyone has the right to decide what issues they speak out on?

Of course not. As Reality wisely articulates they should care as much about everything as they do the thing they personally relate to.

Its the key players who decided they wanted to be heard on social justice issues around systematic racism, free speech etc so bit hard to pick and choose when they want to say anything or it basically discredits when they speak up the next time.

Its not like this issue isn't now front and center of NBA life/discussion so to stay silent show what really matters or perhaps is just window dressing.

So in context its clear the NBA players only speak out when it doesn't effect the hip pocket

Think Harden should be copping a pasting for his comments too!

Harden sold his GM down the river for a few extra bucks

People like #067 make civilised discussion very difficult. Reality is perfectly within his rights to bring up the point he did in the way he did without being labelled racist. I disagree with his point that once you speak up on certain matters you should speak on all equivalent matters, but it isn't an illogical or intolerant point of view.

Not sure that anything I've stated is racist?

Happy to discuss the validity of my point of view thou.

@Issac Lebrons has made at least 12 recent trips to China so pretty sure he might/should have a bit of an idea about the place.

Also he made a strong point on the shop recently about discussing important social issues

Reference:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/josh-peter/2019/10/07/lebron-james-china-hong-kong-controversy/3903187002/

I don't think Reality is a racist, I think KET is closer to the mark. He seems to have a lack of understanding or empathy of people in different situations than himself, or maybe like many similar-minded people I've spoken to seems to resent the notion that they have had some sort of advantage in life based on the colour of their skin, or maybe more accurately resent the fact that others who don't have that advantage might have achieved more than them despite of it.

I think what KET posted in this thread was a pisstake on social commentary, rather than a personal view on the topic!

I know, but still applies here (and every other social media platform...)

@Issac Lebrons has made at least 12 recent trips to China so pretty sure he might/should have a bit of an idea about the place.

Harden's grovelling to the Chinese was so shameful. Doesn't really know how to address it so uses the word 'love' a number of times. Yeah, we know what you love.

Let's stop getting sidetracked about LeBron as we know he will stay silent. He's being used as a smokescreen on here to deflect from the real issue of the NBA's hypocrisy. The league decided to enter the social justice arena over the last few years and now it's backfired on them.

What's shocking is that the Rockets executives actually discussed sacking Morey for his tweet. Yes, you read that correctly.

@ anon 803; I'd say I described a reason why some people might be racist, not necessarily racism. It's not racism in itself and in different cultures the same concept applies to things outside of race - class/caste/what neighbourhood you live in/etc. Racism implies that someone feels one race is superior to another, and I don't think that's always the case with this line of thinking.

It is the CCP and pro China trolls that escalated this issue. Boycotts, flag burning, ritual outrage. All because the head of a NBA team expressed a personal opinion that ran contrary to Xie thought. The CCP thinks it has leverage and it is using it. It does this because it understands that sport and culture are entwined and that legitimacy requires validation from leading artists and sports people. You don't need a degree in Chinese studies to work out that this behaviour is straight from the dictators playbook. I would have respect for any NBA figure who publicly censured CCP about this, just as i applauded Jesse Owens for upstaging Hitler at the 36 Olympics.

@Red its clear the NBA players won't make a Jessie Owens like stand because they haven't used google or read a newspaper that has discussed the concentration camps (Opp re-education) millions of Uyghurs are currently confined within.

@Anon So saying the NBA players/officials should speak out against HK/Uyghurs makes me racist because I always side against people of color? The Uyghurs are an ethnic minority and majority Muslim so according to you I should be supporting the regime on this one.

@Reality - Agree with your central point that sports celebrities are highly selective in the social/political causes they champion in public; with the cause seen to enhance their personal brand. There is no money in criticizing the CCP.
Appeasement pays.

At least now with China and Chinese corporations pulling their support for the NBA we may get games in Australia to fill the void.

Get in there LK.

Definitely a pisstake.

People, players may have their particular passions, it would be absurd to expect anyone to be actively and passionately fighting on every issue known to humanity. Lack of actively pushing a topic publicly doesnt endorse what goes on in the world either.

People might say there is a financial incentive not to speak out on particular issues which undermines those who speak out on one thing but can be so easily "bought". Cynical but very possible. I would hesitate to paint that brush broadly over people though.

Even if that were to be the case, how different would it be to us shmucks who pay for all the things like clothes or electronics tainted by very clear humanitarian violation?

I don't see an issue if someone speaks out on an issue that's "not in their lane", if there's humanitarian issues and people feel the passion to speak out then good on them. Where it gets awkward is if the person is part of a business who has significant interests in a particular nation and therefore would rather not rock the applecart. If a position is forced then they have to suck up the consequences for whichever position they take or nuance and rightly so, no awards for ducking your head in the sand out of convenience.

If you missed it, reported by Reuters:

ESPN faced fresh criticism of its coverage of a row between the National Basketball Association (NBA) and China after using a map that appeared to endorse the country's claims to both Taiwan, disputed territories in the South China Sea and Himilayan territories. ESPN, which has a multibillion-dollar content rights deal with the NBA, had already faced strong criticism online this week after a report that its anchors had been forbidden from talking about the political side of the row.
https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/espn-china-map-taiwan-no-comment.html

Last post - have a listen to the self rightous Stephen A Smith
https://deadspin.com/stephen-a-smith-pauses-between-bootlicks-to-tell-daryl-1838854121

Smith seems bothered, more than anything, by the possibility that the NBA or the Rockets might have lost some money because their GM tweeted what should have been seven innocuous words supporting Hong Kong protestors' desire to reform policing and not be subject to mainland China’s jurisdiction. In his mind, it’s the tweet, and not any of the reasons for or actions around the protest, that serves as a reason to take offense.

I think the NBA are fair game for criticism on all this, enabling such over-the-top behaviour from China in their response to Morey alone, but I think it's unreasonable to expect players to ad-lib respond in the gauntlet between acting on something they've probably been oblivious to, without frustrating their clubs. Journalists trying to put players on the spot - it's a bit much. Curry gave a response about it being a serious issue needing further research which is about as much as he can probably do when put on the spot.

Agreed Isaac

There's another aspect to this, potentially.

IFF China is recognised as a developed nation, and has to conduct trade and economics as a developed nation, it will become less profitable to manufacture in China. Then Spaulding etc might shift manufacturing to Vietnam, India or elsewhere. Such developments across industries might weaken China’s economic power, and reduce the risk for speaking up against China’s human rights record.

@Anon the players spoke about the Trayvon Martin issue without proper research or allowing due process to be conducting however my argument is on this issue they want"time" to research and most likely hopefully never comment on it.

In the Martin case they were talking and utilising the "platform" to protect and push a narrative of events that once borne out in court proved to be false and the defendant was acquitted.

NBA players/officals have been happy to wade into issues before to push a narrative they think fits they issue but its clear this is only when it doesn't effect there money.

So the reasoning for not commenting on China is clear hypocrisy at its finest

And here's LeBron and the warm teat?

"I believe he was misinformed and not educated on the situation," LeBron James said on the Morey tweet. LeBron added Morey's tweet was dangerous. LeBron said he is uncertain about the future ramifications of the Morey tweet with the NBA and players.

Let me clear up the confusion. I do not believe there was any consideration for the consequences and ramifications of the tweet. I’m not discussing the substance. Others can talk About that.

My team and this league just went through a difficult week. I think people need to understand what a tweet or statement can do to others.

Is he talking about well-paid athletes copping some scrutiny on a tour? And suggesting Morey should've waited a week rather than disrupt pre-season games?

I think while he was trying to have his take in the media arena with a neutralised "There's a place and time" instead he flags a position by talking and not condemning, and then doubles down by criticising Morey calling him uneducated.

You’re a dumb boy LeBron! That was a bad tweet by any measure.

I actually agree that Morey should've waited until the preseason games were over. It's probably unlikely given the profile of the players involved, but especially with how things are between the US and China at the moment there is a slim chance it could have had serious repercussions for the players and teams in the country.

Couple of other perspectives spotted online:

Kasparov:

I spent most of my life fighting at the chessboard & against dictatorship at the same time. It's not for everyone, and I don't like to pressure athletes for boycotts, etc. But if you openly side with authoritarians, you abandon the pretense of innocence & neutrality.

-Haven't seen or talked to my family 5 years
-Jailed my dad
-My siblings can’t find jobs
-Revoked my passport
-International arrest warrant
-My family can’t leave the country
-Got Death Threats everyday
-Got attacked, harassed
-Tried to kidnap me in Indonesia

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

According to ESPN's Dave McMenamin, LeBron James spoke up in the meeting with Adam Silver in China and suggested that there would be "league recourse" had a player tweeted the same thing

LeBron seems to be going over the talking points Nike/China have given him.

The Morey being uneducated thing seems a bit of a cheap shot considering Morey's background this is an extremely bad misstep from Lebrons which is most unlike him and his PR team.

LeBron has now effectively shown his hand and that hand is squarely in China's pocket chasing his cash!

To me this still boils down to a bunch of folks who don't give two shits about Hong Kong or any of the (numerous) human rights issues taking place in China's borders using this to attack LeBron's stance on human rights issues in his own country - human rights issues that directly impact him. LeBron's comment was dumb regardless of what he meant and a "no comment" would have been a better option, but at the end of the day he probably knows less than we do about any of it. There's a reason why China has had such a strong economy, and it's not because of people and organisations refusal to do business with China for ethical reasons.

Oh yeah, I'm sure all that public speaking circuit work makes up for the lack of his NFL QB salary. He definitely made the decision based on future earnings :eyeroll:

His final season he had 16 TDs and 4 INTs. I'd wager he's still better today than half the QBs in the league, at least.

Jesus. Comparing Black Americans speaking up on social issues affecting Black Americans to Kylie Jenner, an incredibly rich socialite who as far as I'm aware hasn't spoken a word about anything worth a damn.

The players are effectively profiting from a communist regime that is currently operating concentration camps and organ harvesting which should be discussed before we even get to the HK issues.

Could you imagine NBA players taking money from Hilter's Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia because that’s the closet comparison to this regime.

Agree that the whole NBA is taking the China money and its a good laugh about "NBA Cares" but only if it doesn't hurt my cash!

This is the perfect example of how being the "woke" league back fires.

But hey apparently Trump is a bum who we shouldn't visit but hey China they cool just don't mention Tibet, Uyghurs, HK.......

FYI - No stress if they don't go to White house but we can only assume that if Trump was writing there cheques they'd be at his beckon call as they are to China.

The clippers had guaranteed money regardless of who who wrote the cheques sterling or the next owner.

Its different with China as those dudes nothing is guaranteed regardless of whats on the contract you simply don't get paid.

In the end the players are shutting up and dribbling so hopefully the NBA can become more like the NFL and focus on the game rather than everything else around it.

Trump was the guy who supposedly told China he wouldn't apply pressure over Hong Kong to ease through a trade deal. It's all money.

hopefully the NBA can become more like the NFL

This China stuff is the same logic being used against everybody protesting anything that people don't agree with. "Oh, you say you don't like issue X, but what about issues Y & Z also you hypocrite!". Fact is that everyone has issues that take priority for them - and with black Americans to me it's self-explanatory why the whole BLM thing would be at the forefront. These basketballers on the whole probably care as much about what's happening in China as Reality does - ie. sweet fuck all. I don't imagine Reality is out there boycotting China-made anything. Anon #289 is on the money. It's a dishonest argument.

"To much ignorance in this thread, ..."

And then proceeds to deliver a sermon of whataboutism.

"its that they have previously spoken out about issues that you disagree with eg BLM, Trump being a bum."

No, it's that people like LBJ are all for justice until it affects their wallet. Principles of free speech should be upheld, not silenced because of sensitive responses from totalitarian regimes.

Let's also dispel the myth of China being communist. It's not. It's not even close to being socialist. It has evolved into totalitarian capitalist, retaining some of the worst aspect of communism (absolute state control, rife corruption, etc) while losing all of the equality/egalitarianism ideals. China is more capitalist in spirit and in practice than USA. The cultural lack of moral concern for non-family, combined with a lack of social regulations, leads to an unrestrained extreme capitalism. It's not an exaggeration to say that 'all for oneself/family' is the guiding principle within the culture, usually manifesting as money for oneself/family. The State benefits from using this capitalist spirit while holding a firm grasp over it. Many businesses require partial state ownership to operate. Upper level government workers are literally leeches, using their power/authority to demand regular payments for businesses to operate, to get official documents on time, to get approval for imports/exports etc. For example, you might get a visit from the fire inspector informing you of [an always changing] fire code which forces the business to pay them off instead of going to the great expense to comply. It is common for people applying for even benign government positions, such as teachers or nurses in government workplaces, to need to pay the head of that workplace to get the job, often multiple times a yearly salary, just because it leads to a stable job. To become CCP/police/other authorities, it's based on networks and payoffs. It becomes open, extreme cronyism.

The culture openly accepts this exploitation of power. So when China tries to manipulate the NBA to comply with their demands of political silence, this is a normal, acceptable response. Because in China, it's typical to do anything -- just anything -- to get what you want.

Isaac

"Trump was the guy who supposedly told China he wouldn't apply pressure over Hong Kong to ease through a trade deal. It's all money."

I hadn't come across that. Twitter?

Trump does care about money for America. He wants China to not trade as a “developing nation”, but as a “developed nation”. That change would take away some of China’s advantages in trade, production etc. His position on Syria is just as easily explained: he doesn’t want to take responsibility for leading the world, just finding trade and financial advantages for America. No money to be made in Syria.

Ultimately, Trump is an aggressive isolationist. Aggressive isolationist (Aggressive Twitter threats etc). Isolationist in that he has no interest in real diplomatic or military interventions, unless there are financial incentives for him or his country’s perceived interests.

China have played the long game on all these issues and snookered the west as they now control the supply chain and cheap labor market.

In effect we are all pretty complicit in allowing China to behave the way it does by buying products & allowing our elected officials to effectively work in the long term best interests of China for short term local gains.

I support the NBA players having a voice but that voice has scarified local viewership so I guess the trade off is staying silent on China and taking money from dictators, regimes and mass murderers because they like money more than Asian people.

https://www.facebook.com/theScore/videos/416901652355578/

@Anon I had no problem if they spoke out but don't be a hypocrite about it when it effects the bottom line.

Do you think NIKE etc aren't using the players like pawns in are larger geopolitical game on behalf of china?

Trump goes at China in trade negotiations, NBA players and apparel companies support anti trump messages and attempt to cause social unrest with protesting etc about "social issues" at the behest of these corporate sponsors who take clear direct from China and its propaganda arm.

Its clear as day this is happening so either stand for freedom and justice or don't but you can't play both sides when it suits your pocketbook.

They spoke out on the Martin case without the full facts being borne out in a court of law or any real reporting or investigation of the incident, hence my thoughts on the poor excuses they gave for not knowing enough about China's human abuses so hence not commenting.

In that case the NBA players protesting and the publicity/comments from the players as public figures could have perverted the course of justice.

The players went really hard at it without knowing any facts about the case which once borne out in court clearly showed the person who shot Martin was acting in self defense.

The players tweeted, protested and incited public rallies but in the end Martin attacked the accused and hence was found no guilty due to self defense at a trial of his peers.

@Anon the USA courts are fair and free in a democratic country and he was not guilty end of story.

I'm big on human rights and hence the concentration camps in china of an ethnic minority are abhorrent.

You mentioned that incarceration rates for low level crimes well you've admitted those that are incarcerated have committed a crime, the ethnic minorities in China (all 2Million +) haven't.

Perhaps legal reform regardless of skin color is whats required in the USA and that why the US has free and fair elections so citizens can freely vote in people/parties that will fix the issues you mention (if they need fixing). If those elected officials don't fix the issue or address the issue then the question is why/why not?

Its a democratic republic with an electoral college system that ensures all areas of a country are represented and not just large urban centres, otherwise rural communities would effectively be given no attention at all so its probably a very fair system to try and provide a representative government.

Some states are winner takes all which you might say helps or hinders certain parties (depending on the state) compared with a proportional system.

I'm sure in Australia certain political parties would prefer a non preference system but its a prety fair system overall.

China might be sending a warning but to talk about other countries human rights abuses when we clearly know they have millions in concentration camps seems a little rich as no country is perfect but this is Nazi Germany type stuff.

"Everyone plays both sides when it suits them."

Not only is this whataboutism again, it is false whataboutism.

"Democratic country, lol, the college system is absolute wrought, ..."

USA is a flawed democracy, #25 on the democracy index. So how is this relevant? This is an eerily similar argument to pro-China propagandists, suggesting because you don't have a perfect democracy, that democracy doesn't work. That is outrageously idiotic.

"Human rights, again lol, all countries have atrocities in there past and still going on."

Are you a troll? This is pathetic.

"...and China saying don't poke the bear."

Yes, it is an overt warning. The CCP is used to doing this type of thing. The CCP, running China as a totalitarian country, have the ability to control the entire business sector. Think billionaires are getting too much power? Numerous cases of billionaires mysteriously vanishing for months. Everyone must fall into line. Alababa's founder, workaholic Jack Ma, suddenly resigns? Criticising the CCP leads to imprisoned, which is why billionaire Guo Wengui can't go back to China.

Battling with Gabbert, then went on to start and throw 16 TDs 4 INTs. Yes, they would have been.