.

I agree the standard of play has dropped considerably compared to past era's.

Poorest marketed? Queensland wins that easily :(

Ok.. let's pose another question- during what era did you believe the SBL was at its strongest?
It will be interesting to see what people think on this one. I have my opinion but I’ll leave it open for now

Yep, I would agree with you that the SBL was at it's strongest in the early/mid 90's. But that was the case with basketball overall.

If you look back at the NBA, NBL and European basketball and asked the same question... the answer would be the late 80's through to the early/mid 90's.

Anonymous and Lukosius.. you got me dead on.. early to mid 90's.. so much talent that the wildcat guys would
Play and be a lot better than average but nowhere near as dominant as imports were.. unlike today.

There are so many you could mention on top of what anonymous did.. here are a couple. Chris "hard to handle" Sandle and Dapreis Owens..

I remember Owens playing an sbl all star vs wildcats game in his first couple of days here and dominating to the point that Hurley had to double team him. He dunked all over Chris Carroll and split his face open with his knee when Carroll (foolishly) tried to take a charge.

Sandle had a similar story getting almost 60 against East Perth in his first couple of days here. In the US he was famous for dominating inside and then hitting 3’s as soon as a bigger defender got assigned to him.. mad talent.. RIP

The idea that the NBL of that era is anywhere near the quality of the current NBL is absurd.

Related to that, has the quality of the SBL dropped or is the NBL just that much better now?

NBL is at its best now no doubt.. the players with NBA experience involved have made it so. In relation to your last question KR- I think a bit of both

That's because everyone else got better too.

It's a lot easier for stars to dominate when teams are three players deep, though.

What's the story with Voelkel? Is it the injury he has?

After almost averaging a triple double in previous seasons??? Surely injury has limited him or there has to be more to the story

"If your any good these days you generally go to college or overseas, even more recently eastern states and NZ."

Perhaps if the standard of play, refereeing and coaching increased then this wouldn't be a problem.

How does the standard of play increase without those players staying?

With better coaching!

That only increases the number of players capable of leaving, it doesn't make the SBL itself better.

At the end of the day, all it comes down to is money. If players can get more money playing elsewhere, they'll leave. Same is true of coaches.

Disagree on this one KR. Players in the league would play at a higher level with better coaching.. whether more leave or not is irrelevant after the fact.

Hire, btw, is not injured. Right now playing in Puerto Rico in 3x3 World Cup Qualifying.... together with Wright, Steel and Coenraad

The top 7 teams seem to be pretty clear cut as it stands. Redbacks have climbed to 8th and still have Roberts to come in.

Would be interesting to see what the top 7 records are against the bottom 7 and vice versa.

Disagree on this one KR. Players in the league would play at a higher level with better coaching.. whether more leave or not is irrelevant after the fact.

Here are the top 7 teams (listed in their current ladder order) and their records against the bottom 7 teams...

1. Buccs 5-0
2. Senators 4-0
3. Lightning 6-1
4. Wolves 3-0
5. Hawks 5-0
6. Flames 3-1
7. Giants 4-0

8. Redbacks 1-6
9. Eastern Suns 0-5
10. Tigers 0-5
11. Eagles 0-4
12. Cougars 1-4
13. Magic 0-4
14. Slammers 0-2

So the top-7 teams are 30-2 against the bottom seven. Some other interesting stats....

Easiest schedules so far:
- Lakeside & Slammers
Both have only played two games against top-7 teams. Lakeside are 1-1 in those games and the winless Slammers are obviously 0-2. This does not bode well for the Slammers who now have 12 of their remaining 16 games against a top-7 team.

- Eagles
Only four of their 11 games have been against top-7 teams. They are 0-4 in those games and 4-3 against the bottom seven teams.


Toughest schedules so far:
- Wolves
Seven of their 10 games have been against top-7 teams. They are 4-3 in those games and 3-0 against the bottom seven teams.

- Redbacks
Seven of their 11 games have been against top-7 teams. They are 1-6 in those games and 4-0 against the bottom seven teams.

- Flames
Seven of their 11 games have been against top-7 teams. They are 4-3 in those games and 3-1 against the bottom seven teams.

KR you don't know that mate.. and sadly I guess will never know that.

Who is making fun of me on instagram!! Someone on @humans.of.the.sbl posted funnies :(

The All-Party SBL Team
Damion Scott
Jake Burston
Any Willo player
Jarrod Holmes
Logan Viskovich
Andrej Donlagic
Ash Litterick

Who am I missing?

That humans.of.the.sbl page is the best thing to happen to the SBL in years

Redhage signs with Hawks. didnt see that coming.. Redbacks outa money?

Parsons with that bag of tricks
Great move for the Hawks

Pray for Lako

Hawks vs Buccs GF. Nobody has shown they can beat the Buccs on their own court as yet.

Wolves in the GF if Earnest Ross stops taking so many damn shots...

If that is true about forde, it's hard to see the Eagles men's program not going the same way as the women's program - huge loss to say the least. They will struggle to stay afloat on and off the court significantly and wouldn't be surprised if they folded or at the very least merge with probably Warwick based on their recent move north to mirrabooka.
I agree the Buccs should make the big dance but their record post 2005 is absolutely horrid on the biggest stage of them all and some of their veterans would want to face those demons head on for them to beat a now star studded Hawks team. Interestingly I had heard Sovine was far from happy with his minutes and playing behind certain players before the Redhage signing, how will losing another four to five minutes from his sixteen minutes per game average affect an already volatile situation. Not all is as happy as it seems in the nest

Sovine too busy gasping for oxygen to do anything else on the court. If he went 17 minutes he would probably collapse with exhaustion.

Explains why they signed Dech then. Good move for him to make a name for himself over east

Forde to join Sydney Kings as assistant under Will Weaver. New opportunity

You would imagine Luke Brennan would be one of them, after being video assistant last season. Could Lacko be the other option?

Ettridge being considered by Cats, seen leaving Bendat

'Ettridge seen leaving Bendat' Not true, Ben was just booking in for the Wolves to train at Bendat again once a week from next week ahead of their annual chokefest in late August. Wolfpack Basketball currently selling plastic 'caution: choking hazard' signs as necklaces in anticipation of making the grand final but failing short yet again

I don't blame them.

Co-Coaches for the MSBL Aus team? Seriously?

I think the question pertains to who is currently on the SBL Commission.

As per the website:

Adam Bowler (General Manager)
Brian Atkin (Chair)
Andy Stewart
Jonelle Morley
David Bull
Robert Clement (BWA CEO)

What has happened to the Magic WSBL?
Oh how the mighty have fallen!
Reported to be "going all in for a title" this year, they improve their lineup from last year with both Palusna and Boag playing together. Now having lost 5 of their last 6 they are languishing around 8th. They looked awful tonight.
How does a lineup with so much offensive scoring talent only 6 points in an entire quarter? The was enroute to a 27 point blowout loss against a team that played the previous night.
Is it the coach? He sure didn't look like he did much tonight, no adjustments at all.
Why would u recruit such a good team and give it to an inexperienced lame coach???

suns beating gero on the round after getting smashed twice last week... new import looks to be a good user of the ball... they could be legit if they were consistent.

Any new player takes time to get into the mix chemistry wise. Hawks will be just fine.

Disappointing comment, not going to help east Perth dogging refs going forward

Agree with anon, unlucky morgan.

wtf happened in the 3rd quarter of giants vs redbacks today?

Giants scored 53 points after Patrick Burke hipchecked Lacko into the bleachers

Stats for the game are wrong. Giants win 100 to 92

How do you mess up the stats that badly???

They were using a Commodore 64

Hip checked Lako to the bleachers? Tell us more

Jay Bowie's 29 points from just 12 shots has to be close to the most efficient 29 points ever seen.

Considering the coach selects the import, it's on him. Word on the street is the coach is going to be changed soon. Being arrogant for no reason is the sign of an egomaniac. It’s not like he has ever achieved anything

IllegalGambler where do you bet?

And they get worse again.. they couldn't make a correct decision to save themselves

You don't score 6 points in a quarter with that much talent and lose by 27 because of a wrong import selection. Anyone who thinks this clearly doesn’t know anything about the game.
What is she supposed to do? Score an extra 28 points per game???

Or the Giants knocking off both the Hawks and Redbacks, on the road and in the space of 16 hours.

New import arriving for Slammers. Assuming he is replacing Voelkel and not Livingston....

https://www.facebook.com/SouthWestSlammers/photos/a.529668693746852/2190871734293198/?type=3&theater

Dont forget about the BIG BOY Visckovic!!!!! He been in the gym gettin HUGE, just the other day I saw him bench press 60kg EASY. Tank. HUGE GUY.

That was a great game , Nelson cooked him in the second half though

Did the coaches do enough to field a competitive side to face the yanks?

What are the squads?

maybe no more field ;)

Isby to Buccs, not Cougars.

Awoooo Wolves baby.

Not much I hope 'cause it takes him 25 shots to get 6 points.

Wolves 3rd import Camidge gets the 30 bag against Buccs

The boxscores on SBL website don't include the play by play? Is there anywhere else where they are accessible?

Thanks #226. Strange how they aren't linked directly from the SBL website, I went to the Wolves page and clicked through there for the FIBA one.

Do SBL teams get prizemoney for winning? Or, are they playing for the 'glory' of it?

As you say Anon, it is quite sad....money is pumped in and imports are bought to win what? Bragging rights essentially...0

Tyrell Wolves pay around ~$500 per game for top local talent and are the highest spenders for it. Varies with each club. Obviously in general imports are on more.

just went up on magic fb page

Mandurah Magic have more than enough talent/ players to still make playoffs and do very well even with Palusna leaving.
This was pretty much the team that finished second 2 years ago with a different import.

"For the glory. Which is actually quite sad when you think of it, all things considered."

Agreed. Whilst we all want a competitive league, I believe the main role of the league is to develop players and the game on a state wide level. The success of the sbl is hinged upon how many players make it to the nbl from improving their skills playing sbl.

However this is not the prevailing line of thinking as much as it needs to be.

Players like Nelson from Redbacks getting an NBL contract last season is what really gives the SBL a good name. Few and far between unfortunately.

Interesting that internationally, the SBL is actually considered a development league for imports.

Okay, the SBL Allstar game is upon us and both mens teams are full of talent, and every player picked deserved their selection.

But what if the teams were picked according to a statistical rating, in particular a rating system I have used for many years.

You can find it here....
http://www.sblonline.net/ratings/ratings.html

Yes, this rating system is favoured towards the offensive side of the game as opposed to the defensive side, but hey that is what the Allstar game is about.

Using my rating system, the top 16 players from each team (Aussie & World) are:

AUSSIE
26.92 - Greg Hire (Flames)
24.33 - Gavin Field (Cougars)
22.46 - Marshall Nelson (Redbacks)
18.76 - Louis Timms (Suns)
18.44 - Liam Hunt (Buccs)
18.33 - Dave Humphries (Giants)
17.90 - Caleb Davis (Senators)
17.07 - Rowan Mackenzie (Lightning)
16.82 - Kyle Armour (Lightning)
16.60 - Jackson Hussey (Tigers)
15.89 - Ryan Smith (Hawks)
15.24 - Jarrad Prue (Lightning)
15.23 - Damien Scott (Tigers)
14.88 - Clint Steindl (Hawks)
14.58 - Ryan Godfrey (Flames)
14.30 - Joel Wagner (Redbacks)

WORLD
24.15 - Shaun Stewart (Magic)
23.97 - Josh Braun (Suns)
21.46 - Jourdan Demuynck (Redbacks)
21.40 - Jay Bowie (Giants)
21.12 - Earnest Ross (Wolves)
19.11 - Michael Lay (Slammers)
18.97 - Justin King (Senators)
17.93 - Manylok Malek (Giants)
17.88 - Josh Ritchart (Flames)
16.98 - Patrick Burke (Giants)
16.96 - Kevin Davis (Wolves)
16.47 - Marcus Alipate (Buccs)
16.19 - Marvin Smith (Magic)
16.13 - Tyler Livingston (Slammers)
15.46 - Colter Lasher (Buccs)
15.07 - Cameron Williams (Eagles)

- Minimum 7 games played.
- Must still be playing in the league.

----------------------------------------
So using the above, our Allstar teams would be:

AUSSIE - Starters
C - Louis Timms (Suns)
PF - Gavin Field (Cougars)
SF - Greg Hire (Flames)
SG - Marshall Nelson (Redbacks)
PG - Kyle Armour (Lightning)
AUSSIE - Bench
C - Liam Hunt (Buccs)
C - Jarrad Prue (Lightning)
F - Caleb Davis (Senators)
F - Dave Humphries (Giants)
G - Ryan Smith (Hawks)
G - Rowan Mackenzie (Lightning)
G - Jackson Hussey (Tigers)

WORLD - Starters
C - Manylok Malek (Giants)
PF - Jourdan Demuynck (Redbacks)
SF - Josh Braun (Suns)
SG - Shaun Stewart (Magic)
PG - Michael Lay (Slammers)
WORLD - Bench
C - Kevin Davis (Wolves)
F - Josh Ritchart (Flames)
F - Patrick Burke (Giants)
F - Earnest Ross (Wolves)
G - Jay Bowie (Giants)
G - Justin King (Senators)
G - Marcus Alipate (Buccs)

Thoughts?
Who would win this game?

A few notable omissions from the actual World team that was picked.

The no.1 ranked "World" point guard (Lay) and no.1 ranked "World" centre (Malek) couldn't even make the team of 12. Neither could Jay Bowie who is the 7th-highest ranked player in the league at the moment.

But for the most part they got it right.

Some strange picks in Ellis, White, Wall and Livingston who aren't even in the top 32 players in those rankings.

Re: Magic WSBL.
I think Boag is playing well a she continues to recover from her knee surgery, she is even now one of the best in the league at her position. Milo HAS NOT deteriorated significantly from 2 years ago, any of the such would be marginal. If you don't believe me go to the MARC on any given weekday morning at 6am- fair chance you will find Milo there working on her game. She is the epitome of professionalism and knows how to maintain her game.
Bree has had many horrendous knee injuries and that has taken its toll which is unavoidable.
Junkermeir was touted as a "gun import" around the league prior to arriving and yes, has struggled.

Gilday was great no doubt, however Nici was a true point guard. She has been all her life. A ball handler who could penetrate, create for herself and teammates.
The reason why Junkermier is struggling is because she is a “catch and shoot” wing player who likes to spot up for the open 3. She doesn’t really handle the ball much but is being placed into the position of being a primary ball handler. You cannot tell someone who has played 2/3 all their lives that they are now a point guard. Point guards run the team and require years of training in that position to understand the role. They read tempo, make sure everyone gets the ball, are usually first back on defense and are the most communicative. Point guard is the hardest position to play on a court because they are responsible for all 5 of their teams players.

So who recruited a “catch and shoot” player and told them to handle the ball?

So what is the lowest common denominator in all of this?
Quite simply- the coach. Why would you change the entire offensive structure on a team that was knocking on the door for a championship the last 2 years?
Now there are reasons why a good (and Watts is light years away) coach would do this. These reasons would always revolve around personnel strengths and perhaps weaknesses on the opposition. That’s the coaches job, to articulate a style of play (gamestyle) that serves the players well and is conducive to winning. You see very good coaches doing this at all levels.

These reasons I have given, I believe has nothing to do with Watts’ changes. I honestly believe he has done it to differentiate himself from the excellent coach (coach of the year twice) they had previously to try and prove he knows better. Personnel suitability and adaptability I don’t think even ranked in his thinking.. what little of it occurred outside of the machinations of his oversized ego.

Well he had better wake up and smell the coffee.. because he has differentiated himself from Randy Miguel.. in the direction of the sewer.

You are right when you say they lose to 2017 WSBL magic by 20+. But even if Nici Gilday was here she wouldn’t be playing anywhere near her ability or potential because of that coach.

Worse still is that he is juiced into the position- he is a mate of the board so he is untouchable.
I will make a prediction. The WSBL magic have been a staple of consistent winning for years now, always making it deep into playoffs if not grand finals. If Watts stays there another 2 seasons he will completely destroy this team and have them wooden spoon contenders in no time and he will blame the players for it.. you heard it here first!!

To the person who used the plural "armchair experts" I never stated wabl kids don't want to play sbl. Of course they do. And of course they may have other ambitions also. There was one poster who stated this but I didn’t agree with that assertion.

When I used the word “glory” I was not referring to players. Of course the players will compete hard every night and want to win, you will notice I stated “Whilst we all want a competitive league..” I have no beef with the players and the great players you mention and others you haven’t currently and through past times have all made invaluable contributions to the game in this state. I was referring to club administrators and most of the coaches. They are the ones who overemphasis winning at the cost of developing and growing the game a well as the players to be better.

Players play period. They don’t administer the game do they. And nor should they, their job is hard enough as it is. And I have seen the jail bars in Kal, smashed my head in change room at Willetton and almost died of chlorine poisoning in Mandurah in past years. So as a previous fellow participant I state this.

To develop the game doesn’t mean everyone has to be in it for wanting to become pros. It means the product being the game itself would be better. That benefits everyone. Every great player I knew enjoyed the challenge of matching up against great opposing players. It lifts everything up.

And someone even said those so minded players desiring to become professional go to NCAA.. and that right there is my exact point!! Don’t you think if we were a bit more like Europe and kept our best talent and developed that within our own league, the sbl would become even better than it already is?

Put it this way, example Luka Doncic- didn’t play NCAA but played local in Slovenian National league (our equivalent would be sbl), Adria League and the Euroleague as a 16 and 17yo. If he was a West Australian he would be playing NCAA and guys like you wouldn’t even care that he was never really in the SBL or NBL. We need to become more development oriented so our leagues become even better than they already are... again not a crack at the players!

And wouldn’t you as a player (I assume) want to tell you grandkids that you matched up on Doncic and gave him 25?

"I know one import who played 2 years in the sbl and then two seasons in higher leagues in europe and a season in the NBA G League before retiring. the highest he ever got paid was in the SBL."

So why didn't he return to SBL rather than playing in the “higher” leagues as you put it, given the money is better?

So essentially you agree, we are a development league for imports.
This is not a term I coined- speak to any player agent of an import you know, it’s what they say.

We need to aim higher than that, imports are great but we need to be a development league for Australians rather than imports. Imports in Europe are used to play a role rather than be “the man”. Doesn’t mean SBL veterans don’t have a spot in the league either, in fact playing against grown men with 10 years of feistiness and experience behind them is a great way for the talented younger ones to develop their games and develop hardness. Just look at the European leagues, believe it or not there are plenty of players over 30 who have played their whole careers in the same league.

Lay should of made the Aussie team since he is a dual citizen and pretty sure Malek is Aussie as well cmon guys #bebetter

Top 3 are spot on. You could raffle the order but they are the standouts.

Clarke the PG of the 90's
Ballantyne the PG of the 00's
Wagner the PG of the 10's

Who will be the PG of the 20's ??

2773 - Troy Clarke (512 games)
2723 - Joel Wagner (349 games)
2414 - Shamus Ballantyne (367 games)
2087 - Joe-Alan Tupaea (467 games)
1836 - Craig Jackson (260 games)
1672 - Dan Hunt (382 games)
1656 - Andrew Bowman (356 games)
1579 - Greg Brown (450 games)
1568 - Calvin Earl (273 games)
1567 - Alan Erickson (385 games)
1562 - Leon Williamson (366 games)
1539 - Vince Kelley (351 games)
1312 - Ben Purser (310 games)
1264 - Wade Bennett (263 games)
1258 - Greg Regan (261 games)
1243 - Daniel Thomas (265 games)
1243 - Brian Fundingsland (155 games)
1204 - Ryan Hulme (376 games)
1192 - Elliott Bruton (255 games)
1151 - Grant Davey (338 games)

Stats as of today.

19 full seasons (1989-2007) plus 4 token games in 2009.

Good call on checking players that may have played less games but have good averages etc
The list includes some really good players, but also some that were quite average but managed to play a lot of games.

Re-ordering the list by average shows a different view of this list.

The callouts for me are:
-How good Wagner has been over such a long time.
- Doc Earl and to a lesser extent, CJ, being so high on list considering they weren't tradition PGs
- Dan and Al being so high on list when they were more PF/C (how many of those assists were to each other??)

1243 - Brian Fundingsland (155 games) - 8.02
2723 - Joel Wagner (349 games) - 7.8
1836 - Craig Jackson (260 games) - 7.06
2414 - Shamus Ballantyne (367 games) - 6.58
1568 - Calvin Earl (273 games) - 5.74
2773 - Troy Clarke (512 games) - 5.41
1258 - Greg Regan (261 games) - 4.82
1264 - Wade Bennett (263 games) - 4.81
1243 - Daniel Thomas (265 games) - 4.69
1192 - Elliott Bruton (255 games) - 4.67
1656 - Andrew Bowman (356 games) - 4.65
2087 - Joe-Alan Tupaea (467 games) - 4.47
1539 - Vince Kelley (351 games) - 4.38
1672 - Dan Hunt (382 games) - 4.38
1562 - Leon Williamson (366 games) - 4.28
1312 - Ben Purser (310 games) - 4.23
1567 - Alan Erickson (385 games) - 4.07
1579 - Greg Brown (450 games) - 3.51
1151 - Grant Davey (338 games) - 3.41
1204 - Ryan Hulme (376 games) - 3.20

I would put Kyle Armour over Wagner tbh

Depends what you have around him.
He was perfect for the Redbacks team that had Redhage, Smith, Roberts, Nelson, Vigor etc
and I would prefer Wags in this team then any of the other mentioned players as he is a true pass first PG.

As comparison, put Armour in that team and you would have had chemistry issues (not bagging Armour but his natural game just would not have suited that team)

What is the saying - Horses for Courses...

I think CJ Jackson still holds the record. Something ridicules like 37 for the game.

New June thread....

https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/45311-wa-sbl-june-2019

Not getting paid? You clearly have no idea.

Cougars one of few acting ethically.