Cool story bro

"For the record, I have seen someone put together a game-by-game tally and Bogut won in a landslide ahead of Kay and Long."

Its good that you dismissed the opinions of many fans, but decided that this fan's opinion is irrefutable.

"mostly it refutes the idea that a game-by-game vote would obviously have given us a different winner."

In the opinion of the person who put together his votes, which was just his opinion.

You have NBL media acting as player agents and who knows what else. Santamaria is quite the company man for example. Need that separation well defined.

The media didnt vote for MVP, just the shortlist.

You haven't made a case, kr. You basically wants fans to shut up because one guys opinion proves they should.

I love that you start a thread in an internet forum to complain,

about people complaining in threads on internet forums.

In the past decade or so, the only results I've had any real problem with were Clarke and Bogut.

And even with Clarke over Ennis, we all understood the inherent limitations of the system.

Although I will say that for the same reason I was actually surprised that Cotton won, especially considering how highly Tokoto polled.

"And for the record, I have seen someone put together a game-by-game tally and Bogut won in a landslide ahead of Kay and Long."

Wow, that is epically dumbass even for you.
So you went through and wrote "Bogut Rules" 28 times, and that's your evidence that he's a deserving winner.

The current system is seriously flawed. Perhaps it arrived at the right result, or perhaps not. But that doesn't change that it is fatally exposed to result-driven manipulation.

Whilst I find the televised count tedious, the Brownlow system is at least relatively transparent. Punters can look at a game and decide for themselves whether or not a player deserved maximum votes.

As for the comments in the SF thread, surely even you can understand people's disappointment. There are many, including myself, who believed Bogut was capable (if he stopped coasting) of leading Sydney to a championship. It's not a small sample size. The test of any good player is how they step up when the season is on the line, and Bogut did the opposite.

If kay averaged 2 more blocks and 3 more rebounds would he have won?
That's what bogut did and kay averaged 5 more points by the way

so you're saying that all kay would have to do is increase one of his season stats by 33% and another by about 700% and he would be in the conversation. righto then.

Was COTY voted the same way (coaches, captains 5-4-3-2-1 etc) as the MVP?

Sydney don't make finals without Bogut. Bogut mvp.

Do Perth/Melbourne make the finals if they didnt have Cotton/Ware?

As Luuuuc said, just publish the votes, and I'd be part-way happy.

The problems with the Brownlow are:
The drawn-out call of the entire season, which is a presentation issue, rather than the voting system.
6 votes are given for every game, so a tankfest between two cellar dwellers gets the same votes as a top of the table classic.
Having 3-2-1 when there are 40 players out there, can really skew the results.

I realise its similar to what we had, but I'd be happy to go to a 5-4-3-2-1 vote, by the refs, for every game.

Nothing is perfect, but the beauty of doing it game by game, is that it eliminates the vagueness around saying "Well Cotton was great, but he missed games and had a couple of poor ones coming back" or "Long had a slow start."
And if the votes are published and available by game, its hard for people to dispute. Instead of arguing whether Bogut's worth 5 votes, you look at the games he got 5 votes and see if he dominated

Anonymous
Yesterday

so you're saying that all kay would have to do is increase one of his season stats by 33% and another by about 700% and he would be in the conversation. righto then.


I'm not saying kay should have won I think cotton deserved it but I was asking the question IF kay or anyone else for that matter Boone even frolling whoever averaged bogut's stats would they win it. The answer is no

My biggest gripe with piling accolades on Bogut is that he's already an arrogant wanker who thinks he's too good for our league. He's already getting paid at least double anyone else in the league, and yet he just coasts through most games. Ok so Gaze is a useless coach, but thats no excuse for Bogut thinking hes the one in charge.

When Bogut first talked about coming home to play, people spaoke about ruining his legacy. Clearly the league had a huge interest in attracting him to play and various deals were done and promises made. - Now suddenly he takes home both the top awards - I cant be the only one that smells a rat. Even I have to admit that Cotton is head & shoulders the best player in this league and yet somehow he averages less than 3 votes?

And yet all the league would need to do to quell the discontent is to publish the votes. Don't even need to put names to them, just give us the break-down by club. Then no need for debate over whether its the system or the fanss

Come on, tell me again how Bogut deserved MVP

I think you should change the thread title to "The MVP Problem Ins't the System, its Bogut"

Regardless of the system, I personally think you could make an argument for several players, and I would not have been surprised if it had been any of them. My personal fave was Ware, but Bogut is equally deserving.

However I feel that what people are reacting to is the cringe factor.
I reckon had the vote gone to Ware, Cotton, Trimble, Kay, Long, or even say Randle, most fans would have made their contrary argument but accepted the verdict.

The 1st problem with Bogut is Bogut himself. He started out as a dickhead and the years in the NBA have only made him worse.

The second problem is that too many annoying fanboys have been talking him up from day one, how fantastic he was going to be for the league, and how he would dominate every game. I dont know how to on this board but I would love to pull up the posts where they were boasting he would average over 20 points.
So now of course they see is victory as justifying all the crap they've been spewing for the last 6 months, and it doesnt. It just doesn't.

Bogut is a deserving winner, but he's not the dominant player and league-saviour his fans have made him out to be