I would guess that it's likely the Hawks given what we have been hearing from bevo and others.

But I have no idea personally.

I reckon its Illawarra....that roster (with coach) cant have been cheap.

It's Illawarra, explains how a team that usually shows heart played like they were distracted the last few games, even when they were still a chance to make finals.

Illawarra has to be odds on favorite sadly

Perhaps the players have lost their mojo too. Strong, fighting season but ended with barely a whimper. Could suggest something's up.

cairns average attendance this year is about 4k. it's not cairns.

Would be a great shame - this month marks exactly 40 years of Hawks in the NBL.

LK takes over the league, fails to deliver the much promised media money, and another team who put their faith in him - a foundation club no less - set to fall.

Yep, this league is going great guns.

My negative what?

Fact: Beyond putting money in (which would be noble if it didn't necessitate every other club getting into a spend off), there is little else to LKs model. Nothing has shown any hint of sustainability. Its fools gold.

The Hawks superannuation issues were resolved just before this season tipped off.

Mercury article :

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/5906763/hawks-move-to-quash-talk-of-financial-turmoil/?cs=12

So Cram, what suggestions do you have to improve the situation? Would you suggest a league like the SEABL would be more appropriate?.......Oh hang on.

Illawarra were having financial troubles before LK took over, and they still are. Sad but unsurprising.

Unfortunately for all of us sports fans, the only professional sports comp in this country where most of the clubs make profits is the AFL. And that's partly because of all the pokies money propping us the clubs.

So essentially the only sport with sustainably successful clubs is profitable because of s side business, not even sport!

So, whinge about the lack of sustainability in the NBL all day long, but feel free to propose something better

I think a better question is what would sustainability look like for the NBL?

Would it be every team plus the league running at a profit or breaking even, with no need for the owner(s) to tip in cash, for a full season? 2 seasons? More?

I wonder if that has ever happened in the 40 years of the league?

Maybe sustainability is just making sure that there is always someone willing and able to prop up the league or to replace clubs that go broke? That seems to have worked to sustain the league for the past 20 years.

The single best improvement would be to accept that LKs plan is fundamentally flawed and start from scratch.

Running a sustainable sporting club is difficult, no doubt. To even get close though, you have to at least be TRYING to.

Clubs marching to the beat of LKs "lets spend heaps of money and that'll do the trick" are waiting for a payoff that is never going to come.

"Maybe sustainability is just making sure that there is always someone willing and able to prop up the league or to replace clubs that go broke? That seems to have worked to sustain the league for the past 20 years."

Really? You don't see any damage to the constant reputation of a league of 8 teams that has had 20-odd other teams come and go? Alienating fans a sponsors along the way.

"Change their name to the Tigers and have them play in some tiny venue in Melbourne. That seems to be the only thing that would satisfy Cram. He is first to jump in whenever there is half an excuse to take a shot at LK but nowhere to be seen when good things happen. Hawks having struggles is nothing new."

Good things? Like? The "landmark television deal" where they get no money while continuing to pay for the production and accept awful time slots?

The concentration of ownership to a point where the league owner allegedly has his hand in the ownership of up to 4 clubs?

One such club being on the market for over a year and no takers?

Giving a licence to a rich sucker with zero oversight while knocking back a bid from a group who've put countless times more legwork?

Yeah all good things, all good things.

"Good things? Like? The "landmark television deal" where they get no money while continuing to pay for the production and accept awful time slots?"

That's not actually true, they get a share of advertising revenue which will run well into seven figures. In year one I imagine it won't cover all production costs but will go a significant way towards it.

It's easy to be cynical about the TV deal, but for the league to have all games on STV and two live games on FTA is the best it's ever been for the NBL, and that's the big reason they have some major brands on board as sponsors.

"Giving a licence to a rich sucker with zero oversight while knocking back a bid from a group who've put countless times more legwork?"

Which is the group that got knocked back?

So Cram, the only suggestion to improve things you have given is........
There are certainly positives at the moment, eg larger crowds and the quality of the talent on the court.

No, I would rather a league that understands that things need to change and that doing the same old thing that has failed again and again and again and expecting something different is simply kicking the can down the road.

Paul, I was referring to the Hobart bid who have been asked to jump through a bunch of hoops while another guy turned up with a cheque and nothing else.

And with production costs, the point still stands it is costing them money to have games on TV and ratings are still awful, which makes it unlikely that deal will get better.

The heart of LKs spiel has been that eventually the hype will turn into money to fund the league. That hasn't happened and won't happen. Once he pulls his money out - and it will happen eventually - then what?

I don't go to games, but thanks for the tip.

Showcase our talent? There's fewer Australians in the league than at any point in history. What a great advertisement for Australian basketball.

I would love nothing more than to see the game succeed and follow a successful, sustainable Australian basketball league.

"Paul, I was referring to the Hobart bid who have been asked to jump through a bunch of hoops while another guy turned up with a cheque and nothing else."

The Hobart group haven't submitted a bid yet, they're still a bit off having all the pieces in place, most notably a stadium to play in and subsequent non-basketball revenue streams.

"Sort of glad you don't go to games by the way, as true fans want the game to succeed."

True fans are increasingly harder to find, given their teams keep folding under this fantastic LK model. Can't wait to have two completely generic Melbourne teams, that'll really get the 'true fans' out of the woodwork.

The single best improvement would be to accept that LKs plan is fundamentally flawed and start from scratch.

"You're living in fairyland if you think any businessman can hit home runs with every decision."

That's just it, not looking for home runs. A decent base hit would be nice.

"I can see a sustainable model and also a hit-for-the-fences model (LK's plan) as both being valid. One's more of a gamble, but the pay off is bigger - better TV coverage, better Australian players, bigger marquee recruits, etc. I think you're calling it 2-3 years too soon."

Fair Call. I'd rather get started on a sustainable league now rather than wait for the inevitable implosion.

"Cram wants a sustainable league but also wants a team from Hobart to be fasttracked into the league because yeah small economy"

No, I want all bidders to be held to the same standard. Rich guys with $$$ to throw away just means more of the same short term NBL clubs.

Oh yay, the opinion of someone who doesn't even go to games! You sound like a well-informed person.

Lk has made everyone take notice, not everything can be positive but at least he saved us and has done more than enough for the nbl to move forward.

Personally I'm still not a fan of owning or part owning a team and maybe will always stick with the and others that he still might have ties somewhere down the line.

You have to respect the man and his crew for what they have done so far and nothing but great things other than the camera angles and shot clock in sync would be nice.

Yay!! Another forum hijacked by the LK conspiracy theorist's... The game was so much better back in the day (yawn). Melbourne United are not the Tigers (yawn). I hate to tell you no one apart from a small minority of troglodytes care..

I'm not a huge LK fan, and even less of the muppets running Sydney. But I will say this:

There are currently only two sustainable clubs in the league. One is run on a shoestring, and will finish with a spoon.

The other only got there on the backend of years of subsidy, and consequent success.

Melbourne are on their way. They've won a championship and been very impressive for most of this year. And Sydney aren't far behind. Adelaide and Brisbane have also kept it interesting all year.
Realistically, this is all down to LK. Without him, his money, and his connections, we'd all be yawning our way towards the Cat's 10th championship.

As for Generic Melbourne teams, well the sad reality is that we NEEDED to start over. The league simply couldn't sustain the myriad of Victorian clubs, and winnowing it down to only a couple of legacy clubs simply alienated the majority of existing fans.
For all those who thought he'd stitched up Victorian support with United, well lookee here, he's now delivered what we all said was needed. A 2nd Melbourne team based in the traditional South East Corridor. Sure it won't work overnight, but eventually its going to produce an awesome cross-town rivalry, and a profit also.

@734113
Hawks need their own (owned) venue to build sustainability. Its like the grass roots sports model - get the gate, the canteen, the bar - all would help. So, where to get the money from to do that......Club has made gains financially this year with a couple of new sponsors and with the ACT deal.

I don't understand the criticism towards LK.

Just prior to LK - we had a league with no sponsors, no TV, 3 viable teams with Money (one being LK's Melb Utd). NBL had run out of white knights, consortiums, Associations able to or willing to assist.

The talent well was dropping in favour of foreign leagues, or the AFL. There was no marketing, no business nouse, nobody with any credibility willing to talk to the league.

The league imploding and magically coming up with a sustainable league - who funds that? You've got a choice of nobody and nada. Who organises it?
Where does revenue come from? What TV network pays for that disaster?


Fast forward, and we've got all games on FOX, 2 games per week (roughly between 25-30% of games) on FTA. We've got naming rights sponsor, numerous other major sponsors.

The quality of the league has improved considerably talent wise - we're stealing back players from foreign leagues.

I've been banging on about how there's no point in an entertainment product where the entertaining part is competitiveness, to have a situation of 'haves' and 'have nots' where a team just buys their way to the finals each year, where the season becomes a foregone conclusion.

IMO, the sheer and obvious corruption of early 000's til only a few years ago is no longer so prevalent or at least visible. The 'haves' and 'have nots' still exist to an extent: with that said it has become very clear the 'have nots' like 36ers, Bullets, Hawks have received a fair bit of assistance from LK.

The NBL is on a very positive trajectory, what I think will define its success and sustainability will be the types like Adelaide, Brisbane finding a way to replicate the type of club management competence of Perth Wildcats.

That will assist in leading onto the second part, avoiding the 'haves' getting away from the 'have nots'. The equalisation type strategy is a good starting base, especially if that money isn't tied to particular uses.

For instance, if a club like the Hawks in previous years who were talented on a budget can use the money better for marketing to bring in fans, that may be a better strategic use of the money.

With the glut of sports, and the type of capital behind Cricket and Soccer these days, if the LK can reduce it's production losses, they don't need to "make" money from media rights to succeed, especially if enough sponsors come on board and value that media exposure.