Pg 62 of today's Advertiser.

From memory it started when he was overlooked or invited late for an NITP trip & advised that the NITP head coach thought he had more of a career ahead in footy. Probably going to work out ok for him!

Work out OK for the kid or the HP person?

"Jackson Hately (SAM) - 20.9, 6.3 rpg – In an SA Metro squad that wasn't as deep as some of the other teams in the tournament, Jackson Hately managed to step up his game to help his team compete. Leading the tournament in scoring, Hately exhibited his impressive scoring versatility"

Seems like a massive loss to me. Is the HP manager from a footy background?

I assume the young selected for these other opportunities in Hately's place is doing great now for the HP Manager to make such a call to crush the kid's basketball dreams.

On one hand it seems that he has found his niche in Footy, but what gives these experts to make the call on his ceiling in basketball. Just shows what a joke NITP, state is ect. I wonder what would have happened if a current player whos dad is in the powers that be was told the same thing.

What is most surprising is that comments made on hoops are still regarded as facts .
If you know basketball you will realise that being a top scorer at 15 yo is not relevant to having a successful career in basketball and if you happen to have seen Jackson play then you would know it's more likely he would be successful in AFL than basketball. He could be a $500 k a year AFL player , try making that as a baller !!

Does being the top scorer as 15 yo guarantee if you are encouraged to quit you will be an AFL draft pick?

Performance 15 yo and going on to be an AFL draft pick IS an indicator that this kid could have played basketball at high levels.

At least it was a strong group he left (?), is the HP program measured on players encouraged to quit basketball at a young age to go on to be AFL draft picks?

But the fact he was basically told he should choose footy over basketball is an indictment on HP managers, they should be trying to convince athletes to stay.

It is obvious the right decision was made given the players picked ahead of Jackson. The players picked ahead of Jackson clearly benefiting from the guidance and learning experience of the trip, going on to be high-level basketballers in their own right!!

This kid will be drafted on a minimum contract better than most nbl players contracts, by far the best choice for him. Being told by a HP manager or missing a team selection shouldn't be the end of your basketball career if it’s truly your passion anyway

Exactly right Goner , but at 190 cm Hately is a long way from Ingles. And regardless of what any HP manager said the AFL still offers clear pathways with much greater possibility of success. Hately will be one of maybe 5 SA boys drafted who will go onto to earn 500 k plus for the duration of their footy career , can you find me 5 Aussie basketballers of the same age with the same opportunity?

He didn't leave the sport because he didn't have passion for it at the time. He left due to recognizing how bad and poor his development and opportunities were in basketball despite him being deserving. Talented kids will be guided and influenced on their passions and key people in basketball influenced him to another sport because of incompetence.

Looking at the facts above he would have been anything in basketball but his dreams should not have been crushed early. If kids move to football let it be because football is their passion and football does a good job, not because basketball does a bad job.

At 6'4'' a salary anywhere between 500K and 10mill beckoning in the sport, would have played for Australia and probably made the NBA at some point, like the 10 other Aussies there now whom actually received good development and guidance in their career.

I don't want to reference this to any high quality young athlete but no matter what you experts here are on hoops think, clearly if you are not exceptional in athleticism and skill the path away to the NBA is a long an arduous one. The pathway to AFL is relatively pain free and fast.
Many boys and probably now girls will represent their respective states in both AFL and basketball and we are consistently seeing athletes vote with their feet. With zero pathways in basketball in this country that can return any income to 18-21 year olds AFL is an obvious choice

Err what? 18-21 is a time you are still developing, the money comes later. AFL is the easy way out and you cap your warning potential whereas with basketball the world is your oyster.

earning*

Facts from articles highlighted are:
Kid led country in scoring.
Incredible person and hard worker.
Clearly talented in sport to be an AFL draft pick.

Other facts we know:
This age group needed this kid to succeed.
Other great kids from this group pulled out.

Kids that had opportunities ahead of this particular kid are now not playing or playing at very low levels, therefore received no benefit from this trip, it seems it may have sent them backward.

Allegedly:
HP Manager encouraged him to leave sport which would appear to be gross incompetence and dereliction given the role.

SA is currently a laughing stock both within the state and outside of the state because this kind of thing is going on.

Having seen Jackson closely through his junior career he was an outstanding u16 player but he led nationals in scoring due to being surrounded by a weaker supporting cast than other years in SA and having a coach who allowed him to do as he pleased offensively. He was not the best player at that tournament, nor even top 5 IMO.

Had he pursued basketball I would say that u16 nationals would have been his pinnacle though no doubt he would still have contributed to more state teams and probably been a very good state league player.

For example, kids like Michael Harris, Jimma Dau etc would be far ahead of him at this point and more likely to end up professionals.

Whether the HP manager was right or wrong I think Jackson has ended up on the right path.

All this talk of $500k is ridiculous. For example look at a Ryan Fitzgerald, a top pick at Afl, even though his career was cut short by injuries, how much did he earn in his career. Not everyone is an Ollie Wines. Most first round picks fizzle out pretty quickly. With Hately he could have earned a college scholarship, gotten free education and maybe bounced around a few leagues if it didn't work out. If Afl doesn't work out he might have to play out bush and get a couple of meat trays thrown in.

If you're not in the top 10-15 players on an afl list you lucky to $150g, plus match payments of between 3g and 4g normally. You don’t normally get many games though certainly if you’re not in the top 28-30 players. The big money goes to the top few,buddy, sheil, Selwood etc. with a salary cap of 12 million for afl and it is policed and the top 3-5 players are taking 3 to 5 million out the rest of the list, normally 44 players it starts going quickly.
I heard a while back that Moller came back to basketball because it was his first love, he was also never selected for a state team after under 16 due to being involved with the afl, much to the disgust of lot basketball people at the time.
The PR machine of the afl will never let the facts get in the way, yes the high earners can make good coin but no better than a good basketball player in euro league and certainly not nba. An nbl starter can earn reasonable money for a longer period of time than a mid range afl player that has a average of 3-5 year career.

Average AFL wage $371,000 , so someone want to give us the average NBL wage !!

The average nbl wage is a lot less but you can play year round earning two wage packets, and play to an older age. The average afl player is on a list for three seasons as well and those guys don't get near the average.

The point seems to be it wasn't a financial decision that led this kid at 15 yrs of age, whose first love was basketball, that had just dominated a national championship, that led to his decision to not pursue basketball. It wasn't based on lack of talent. It was based on incompetence that led to this player being lost to basketball in the state, nationally and almost certain to go onto high international levels at least for his junior career. I'm not sure South Australian basketball can afford to continue to leak this kind of talent, and this is just one higher profile example.

If these players are lost let it be because their heart is not in the game, not because of incompetence, poor athlete management, and guidance.

No one is saying it's not lucrative for the top players. 82 players out of 792 though, (18 teams x 44 players). That’s approximately 10%, the next 10-15% also do ok but it gets less and less the further you go into the list.
All in basketball is a better game, there is pros and cons in all sports.

Good points 586. And lets not forget the phenomenal opportunity kids as good as Jackson Hately get to go to high major division 1 college programs. These opportunities are MASSIVE for a young man like Jackson as an 18 yr old. Ask Greenwood whether or not he'd take his college career back to play AFL football.

There is absolutely nothing stopping any athlete from pursuing their basketball dreams regardless of what happens at the elite level in SA. Surely any athlete who is passionate about basketball would pursue a career in the sport , if a career in the NBA truly beckoned the negativity from one individual l would not of ended that dream.
It is convenient to blame a HP manager for ending a dream but maybe it was just easier to head down the AFL path or simply just a better choice

It's amusing you think that the kid being overlooked due to a poor evaluation and providing misguided evaluations by being told he was a better footballer by the individual mentioned above, seriously damaging the kid's development in the sport has no impact on young men like this. I also think it impacts development of more athlete more broadly as successful athletes show the path, breed the culture of excellence and strengthen the performance of state teams.

It chokes talent, erodes the pathway and opportunity for other athletes (success breeds success, failure breeds failure), and in fact damages the sport in South Australia.

I don't think football are telling a 6'6'' ruck AFL prospect with great athletic skills that he is not good enough to make an All Australian camp and should play basketball. That IS the difference in this case. It has NOTHING to do with potential earnings nor potential in Football instead of basketball but everything to do with a f&#$ckup.

There is no comparison between AFL pathway and basketball pathway . 60 + young footballers who are 18 yo will be drafted to AFL clubs , meanwhile 60 young basketballers will be drafted to ......... oh wait there's nothing .
If Hately wasnt invited to an ADC or make an Aus team then no doubt there was good reason for it but this didn’t mean his basketball career was over unless he chose it to be. At the end of the day each athlete makes their own choice.

Of course there are comparisons to be made between all pathways!

The relevent comparison is that people have jobs in pathways and MUST be measured by their proven capabaility to identify and develop talent.

In basketball's case, with little corporate sponsorship or TV rights flowing back into the sport this is funded by the sport's participants. Decisions are made to fund these roles for reasons, that IS to get certain results. This is just one example where poor talent ID and development took place and a clearly elite prospect received little to no value from the sport's pathway and clearly guided away from the sport all together.

The comparison comes into play because like all pathways a disproptionate amount of value, resoruces and opportunities will be provided to athletes identified at a young age. Resources are very finite and so are opportunities. It is vital people paid by the sport, funded by the sport's participants provide VALUE in regards to what they are paid for ensuring talent is correctly identified, resources are allocated to the development of that talent. Peak sporting bodies need to ascertain the value those appointed to talent ID and develop eltie talent are providing value or not. If they are not then why are they are there? Happens in all sports, happens in all pathways, except for basketball in South Australia.

I won't go into the fact that there is a limited window for success in sports, athletes are swamped with choice these days and often players will "listen" to people in these roles and their personal belief and confidence greatly impacted by their opinions even when those opinions are consistently inaccurate.

There is such a limited opportunity in Australia for young basketballers who want a career in the sport but at the same time a massive opportunity to pursue your dream in the US college system . Many SA athletes have and are pursuing their dreams in the US college system,
Hately has made a clear choice not to pursue basketball, maybe he didn't want to go to the US , which by the way is fine.
It’s a long hard slog for any athlete even if you are identified on the elite pathway, just follow Mitch Creeks journey , the odds for success would certainly seem greater on the AFL pathway

Somewhat true and that is why attraction, development and retention of talent is so important in the sport. The pathways need to be credible, this comes from good, accurate talent ID, ability to give feedback and guidance, see the game and understand player's developmental needs, deliver initiatives to support those needs, be able to enhance and support the pathways for elite kids. You do that and succeess breeds success suddenly you have an environment and culture where the momentum of success develops a great environment for Jackson to want to be in.

In some rare cases where the HP program gets it wrong kids have an inner circle to problem manage and mitigate the mistakes. In this case mistakes were made time and time again. This saw a 15 yr old kid, that had just led the nation in scoring, with clearly an outstanding work ethic and other intangibles loose his love for the sport. That had nothing to do with opportunities for an adult and everything to do with incompetence and laziness of those employed to achieve a much different outcome. This is just one example. There might be more?

Not the 1st young athlete to be overlooked by a hp program but you seem to make a lot of assumptions without possibly having the facts to back it up about the overall program. Just agitating against the current hp manager to suit your own agenda ?

Probably turned down a scholarship to go to PAC

As long as I can remember the guys you think should be picked aren't, even Bogut was snubbed, got look after the mates or mates of mates.

LOOK ANON!

Someone has to make the tough decisions, would you do it?

Clearly if the kids selected in the state-based initiative have gone on with it then so be it. They must've also benefited by being included and doing well within the high-performance program.

Also if it is a strong age group then losing a kid here and there through a 50/50 decision is no big deal. Even if the kid was the leading scorer in the U16 nationals and one of the best players in the tournament. I'm sure it must be a strong and deep age group of talent. And if other key talented kids have stuck with it too then it just gives them a chance to fill the void. I doubt other talented kids were lost from the cohort in this age group???

ooooook then ANON! This is looking interesting.

Upon checking some of the comments above I just realised this SA team infact came 9th at U16s with the leading scorer and one of the best players in the country in the age group (Hately). Clearly, if he is now an AFL draft pick, therefore an elite sportsman, he must've had some kind of potential in basketball, with the benefit of hindsight, surely the group could have used him in U18s. Interesting if the kid was turned away from the sport, very interesting indeed, especially if the kids selected ahead of him did not have any value for the things they were selected for as it appears.

So, you're saying these other kids selected by the HP manager for the state-based development initiative ahead of this kid did not improve and/or quit the sport??? This seems like a total schmozzle to me.

Out of interest were any other good kids lost from this age group that finished 9th in U16s and why did they leave the state/sport?

If they did then I'm gonna say it is pretty amazing they only slipped 1 spot in u18s. Out of interest did the bulk of the starters in u18s even do any of the NITP/SASI (not sure what it is called these days) stuff?

In regards to the other kids you mention maybe we just focus on this one incident and save the others for future discussion.

* especially if the kids selected ahead of him did not get any value for the things they were selected for as it appears they got worse and/or quit the sport altogether.

That is a pretty big leakage of talent from a team that had finished 9th to begin with, and if the reasons you give are true it seems to be self-inflicted!

I wonder if BSA is looking into this closely. I mean if you're not measuring and tracking it you cannot really manage it as the management experts would say.

Is this the fault of the u16 state coaches or the HP manager?

I think if you ask the athletes or their parents it is very clear why these athletes put basketball a distant 2nd or move away.

I guess the point is BASA leadership should be more open to getting feedback on these kinds of issues from those that know. If there is no measurement, no feedback mechanisms, there is no accountability.

It is fairly simple to ask the right questions and be open to feedback and collect data on these outcomes. Problem is if the CEO is scared to do that, feels threatened by his own staff then you will continue to have the mess that seemingly exists.

Good openness, accountability and transparency can actually strengthen your position if you were doing a great job. If there are none of these factors as is the case now then stakeholders will find away to bring those things about via online forums and networks outside of the governing body.

ANON we all get it , you are unhappy with the HP manager and want BSA to investigate why your kid wasn't selected or promoted .
After all your assumptions and guesswork you’ve made your agenda pretty clear, yes kids don’t get selected or promoted as potential Australian players in the NITP program , encourage your kid to continue to train hard and I’m sure he will make it to your goals.

I find it interesting reading the above. My summasation of the above is:

THere is a school of thought that blames the athletes and says the athletes need to harden up.

There is another school of thought that thinks investing resources and giving opportunities to the RIGHT talented, high quality athletes will actually ensure BSA programs succeed and talented high level athletes succeed out of our state.

The example that seems to be used is an athlete that is going to be an AFL draft pick (clearly having significant talent in sport), not selected for a state based opportunity, perhaps even guided towards football by the basketball high performance program, where the athletes selected ahead of him clearly have not been developed. To me this exhibits a significant error of judgement, decision making and athlete management by the HP Manager.



I'd go as far as to summise that losing the number 1 scorer in the country, with clearly a lot of sporting talent, negatively impacted the group that finnished 9th in U16s. How many other talented kids left this group and why did they leave???? How many kids from this group were under developed??? If BSA take the attitude of just blaming the kids constantly and don't drill down and ask questions then we cannot improve. Not calling for anyone's head, just saying we need to analyse this a bit deeper and not just blame the kids.

I'd also be interested for BSA to analyse of the recent successful athletes out of our state, playing d1 college ball, how many feel they received significant value from the BSA HP Program on their journeys and how many feel they succeed despite BSA or in some cases in spite of BSA??

It is about value provided by BSA and return on the investment all stakeholders (especially the athletes and families) make into the High Performance program. Right now that return is subpar. THis is not calling for heads it is about BSA needing to ask questions and capture and analyse some data and facts on it.