Well, times they are a changing!

It comes as no surprise to me, however it is unexpected.

At this stage I will wait to hear more information and detail about the new proposed concept, how it may impact regional areas in particular and who is actually going to lead the charge into whatever new second tier competition they come up with.

Interesting times ahead...

Thats been the word for while around Melb.

Top couple of Big V teams to step up into SEABL and teams outside Vic left to there own accord to join into there exisitng state comps.

Except Albury/Tassie Teams & MTG would want to play in the new Vic based comp but might be a few teams who prefer not to travel and save the dollars!

Trying to read between the lines, BA has bowed to pressure from BV as their best teams play in the SEABL and hence devalues their Big V Champ leagues.

Teams have also not been happy with how BA runs the league for quite some time either.

But killing the league off entirely seems a little drastic.

Does this open the way for a new winter league?

Will be interested to hear what BA communicates.

The only positive I can see from this is the return of state league teams playing against each other for national finals.

Another consideration may be the future of the AIS (COE) teams, where would they be playing if SEABL isn't available in its current format?

I would like to see a 2nd tier national comp on a pro/rel format with each state comp becoming a third tier.

Id go 20 teams two conferences of 10 teams in this second tier.

Bottom 4/20 get dropped at the end of the year back to the 3rd tier playoff.

Top 2 of each 3rd tier state league also join the play off at the end of each season with the top 4 of the playoffa going up into the 2nd tier.

So let me get this straight, all the Victorian SEABL clubs will join a new Victorian Premier competition, as well as the Tassie teams, then probably Albury and Mt Gambier will choose to play there as well so as to play at a relevant level?

Looks like BV are just taking over the same league minus Canberra who were said to be going back to Warratah regardless, and COE who tend to drift in and out of playing in a league over the years anyway.

Well Victoria has dominated at junior ranks since day dot, and now it's senior competition is officially the second tier comp in the country as well. No doubting the home of hoops now and the gap will only widen.

With you Melbourne boy. SEABL competition being high jacked by the VBL.
Any national finals will be a joke with the VBL dominating. We have a healthy ABL comp in Adelaide, QBL is very good, SBL will always be solid. Not sure Canberra will help Waratah much and the SEABL is flourishing with high standard play and great support and crowds at all regional centres. The Melbourne SEABL teams can look forward to playing in front of their regular 150 people (if lucky)This move by BA is ill conceived, in fact bizzar and reeks of personal political interest.

With you Melbourne boy. SEABL competition being high jacked by the VBL.
Any national finals will be a joke with the VBL dominating. We have a healthy ABL comp in Adelaide, QBL is very good, SBL will always be solid. Not sure Canberra will help Waratah much and the SEABL is flourishing with high standard play and great support and crowds at all regional centres. The Melbourne SEABL teams can look forward to playing in front of their regular 150 people (if lucky)This move by BA is ill conceived, in fact bizzar and reeks of personal political interest.

You cant have a league without BA endorsing it. That's the point SEABL wants to go it alone and BA wont endorse it. But they will endorse a VBL that has Tasmanian clubs in it WTF.

So the best of SEABL wouldn't dominate? because that's what you will have.

Big V and Basketball Victoria are together now.

I wouldn't let Anthony Moore and BA run me a bath.

Couple of things from this ...

This has been talked of for over a year, the arms race by a certain Big V Club that was SO desperate to be in the SEABL this year seems like thye jumped too early and could of established themselves and new stadia instead.

Adelaide Teams don't want to travel to Mount Gambier once a season or Mildura? this seems like they fear competition based on the fact Victorian Teams with small budgets (many players paying for the travel themselves)

There is already an Albury Team in the Big V, it seems crazy to have two.

Regional teams will still get the crowds regardless of which comp they are in, less diluted talent pool means state leagues could actually be stronger.

The Big V personally if this was to happen would need to step up its promotion and marketing game, it has lacked a lot since the early days and with live streaming, blogs etc it sits a long back on the VFL, NPL (Soccer) and even local leagues like Northern FL in how it promotes its teams and its sponsors.

I love the club champ idea, always makes sense. As a large land mass country and the money that isn't in a semi-pro sport the chances of a 2nd Division is not a reality without some TV money, large sponsorship deal and junior members paying for senior basketball. A end of season tournament that travelled around to a different state each year I would attend!

BV/Big V wanted to get the SEABL clubs back into the senior comp and have wanted this for a while.

Its hurts Big V/BV that they aren't involved in the comp and its always made the Big V comp look like a secondary bush league which those running that league want to change.

Based on the current SCM division having some poor venues/small clubs involved its hard to see how teams like Hobart/Albury/Bendigo plus the larger Melb clubs are going to want to play games at GSAC, Boroondara

Anonymous - tell me why Adelaide wouldn't want to travel and have new teams within its comp then ??? I can it seems all I like its forum for opinions

Reality - agree regarding venues this would certainly change things, the Big V/ VBL was a little more strict on these back in the day but I have said it before they loosened the regulations for venues to allow small associations in

Adelaide didn't want to travel to Mildura when BV gave Mildura permission to apply to BSA to join there league which makes sense because its alot closer so can;t imagine they'd be all that happy letting Mount join as its about the same distance last time i checked.

Remember back in the day some of the great country teams and clubs...now BSA don't even want to leave the greater Adelaide area to play a game cause its to far!

SEABL should never have allowed BA to take control. They are incapable of running successful competitions, let alone growing the sport. BA running SEABL was always going to be a mistake (just like it was for the NBL). Pushing SEABL into BV would See it decline; let it run independently of state organisations, as it was before BA.

You may be correct D4444, but it can't be run independently as BA aren't sanctioning it, so looks like the decision has already been made.

Agree the quality of play is outstanding. Sell outs at all play-off games. BA makes no financial commitment, the clubs pay. Driven by basketball Victoria to create new league at the expense of a successful 30 plus year old comp. If BA are serious about state leagues how can they encourage Tas teams to play in a Victorian State league. What is the real reason, motivation behind this?

SEABL operates a strong conception before BA decided they wanted to take it over, if BA are challenged and their non faction if of games to meet with FIBA requirements is actually brought to FIBA and looked at as discriminatory action then BA may find they are not required to sanction a league that spirts quality national and international players
BA don't contribute financially, perhaps those wishing to operate the SEABL competition could seek some federal government assistance , considering the refusal ( if that’s the case) of Basketball Australia to support what is a very successful semi professional league in this country
The question though that needs to be asked is just who in BIGV is in the ear of Basketball Australia to be able to
Push for them to abandons SEABL and force these teams into BIGV and local state leagues

"Make no mistake for players at the NBL level if they weren't BA sanctioned they wouldn't be allowed to represent Australia at the Olympics."

please show me how you think you know this to be true ?
IMHO Even if a basketball event/competition is not FIBA sanctioned that does not affect a involved player's eligibility with the Olympics through either Fiba or BA rules. Never did, doesn't now, probably never will.

Please post with example or correction. XOXO :)

PS , the NBL was not always sanctioned by BA. it started off with their active opposition, and also the disapproval of the then Olympic mens coach

For the Big V its about cash and hopefully increasing the level of comp in there top division which have completely fallen off a cliff in terms of quality in the last few years.

As a regular watcher of Big V SCM its been hard to watch the level fall away so much in the last 3 or 4 years to the point its worse than the old D1 which is effectively the comp it became with the promotion of a few of those teams and a less import/nbl level talent playing.

The move is a power move from BV/Big V and make no mistake when it comes to BA they are going to support what BV wants as BV have the money & power to force the issue.

"Make no mistake for players at the NBL level if they weren't BA sanctioned they wouldn't be allowed to represent Australia at the Olympics."

please show me how you think you know this to be true ?

SEABL is certainly done from all reports! Clubs have accepted it and now its about jocking for position and competitive structure with certain clubs pretty keen not to have to be playing against smaller big V clubs who play out of sub standard facilities.

Well, some pieces appear to be falling into place:

Victorian State league to be run by BigV perhaps, overseen by BA?

Victorian State Basketball Centre to be increased in capacity for second NBL team?

Government pledging multi-million dollar basketball investment at SBC?

SEABL gone, to be consolidated into a Victorian & Tasmanian State League?

C of E moved to Melbourne?

Melbourne becomes the heart and sole of basketball in Australia..........?

Just trying to place the cards on the table!

Spot on Bear!

Is that a bad thing though?

I liked the C of E being in Canberra taught kids to go away and become adults, live in a different city made sense from a development point of view

East seems to get Bigger and the West gets smaller .....

$1 million has been pledged for a business case for building a 6000-8000 seat stadium at Knox. It's not necessarily part of the plan announced this week, though it could be if Chaudhari decides to put some of his own money into it.

"Labor will also build a new home for the Australian Basketball Centre of Excellence at Knox as part of the $107 million expansion project, with Basketball Australia relocating their training facilities from Canberra."

Probably a yes if the government gets back in, though you believe these election promises when you see them.

So when will all this come into effect IF this is factual

Bendigo have built a state of the art multi centre to cater in part for their SEABL teams so now what
How on earth will BIGV afford to run or even manage to run yet another division, SEABL teams are streets ahead of the SC standard of BIGV , so what sort of competition will it bring

Is this set in stone or is it thinking aloud by certain parties

I don't think it will be run by Big V, will it? I thought the plan was for Basketball Victoria to run it. I don't think it will affect Bendigo, they will still be playing mostly the same teams, just in a comp with a new name.

I've long thought this was the way to go, I just don't like the way BA went about it.

A big difference in seabl and scm/w is the game night presentation. Seabl has always been incredibly well presented and the Big V game night is a joke looking like it's ran by a drunk who doesn’t care what it is like.

Big V also is poorly ran with its administration making up rules on the run. Fixtures were not done until a month before the season started this year.

NBA that is another league not sanctioned by FIBA. Looks like the end of the dream team and our NBA Boomers. (If not be sanctioned stops qualifying for olympics)

SEABL once taken over by BA was only their for the Institute teams. Now with the CoE, by SEABL hellos BigV

FM, I think your right in regard to BA and the COE. Whilst most competitions in Australia have been inconsistent and in some case struggled (NBL and WNBL)for many years, SEABL has been
successful both on and off court for some 30 years. BA are culpable in their desire to support Victorian basketball whose comps have been on the decline.
I hope they reconsider. By all means cease to run the comp. Just give it back to SEABL to do what they had been doing well for 25 plus years.
It aint broken, in fact it is thriving, it doesn't need fixing.

CoE won't be moving anytime soon, with the standard of scientific and dorms required to house the athletes not available at SBC

Big V need to raise the standards of presentation and stadiums, and clubs also need to be looking to offer a great atmosphere.

Bendigo stadium is now a regional entertain centre not a basketball stadium built for the thousands that attend a SEABL game ....

Mt Gambier aren't in the BV plans at all only the Tassie teams will be grandfathered in however if an NBL team gets up in Tassie the teams playing in the BV comp won't be playing any longer.

My Gambier have to hope that the Adelaide Mafia (CABL) allow them into there league although if past history is anything to go by that won't happen as they don't like driving more than 30 mins to a game.

I think the only thing we can really confirm right now is that there are huge changes on the horizon.

I am questioning the things I am reading, I am not saying they are fact and those things are happening, rather these things are being spoken about and printed in the media.

Interesting times ahead...

The only way some form of SEABL remains is if whats put to those Melbourne based SEABL clubs is a really bad deal in terms of comp/venues/requirements etc.

In reality, SEABL wasn't a truly national competition was it? The cost of running a SEABL team in the current structure is high, most players are not making any money at all or very little compared to the top players and imports in any given team.

Money talks, bums on seats are crucial and a competitive structure in financial and on court terms is what will make a difference, so I will be very keen to see where this all goes!

I am very much in favour of being progressive and improving things as we move forward with basketball in Australia, what I hate is change for the sake of change, so if they are all on the same page and we head in a better direction, great.

If not................well!

Anon, I am bias, but Geelong has possibly one of the best SEABL level venues in Victoria, they have been finalists almost every year and are situated in the second largest city in Victoria within a growth corridor that will see the Greater Geelong area go to 400,000 population in no time and the depth of talent in the surrounding zone is massive.

You must remove your head from your......Sorry, got a little upset for a moment! lol

Maybe you just forgot them...

I'd expect it to look more like this:

Nunawading
Kilsyth
Dandenong
Geelong
Knox
Sandringham
Bendigo
Ballarat
NWT
Hobart
Ringwood
Diamond Valley (Need to show willingness to recruit/invest on Men's side)
Waverley
McKinnon (Will spend heaps to stay in top Div I'm told but venue is an issue)
Albury Wodonga (Need to show Women will be better)

Been told they'd like a team from the North/West of Melb but would want to see one of Hume, Keilor or Werribee step up to the plate and invest in the team/squad to make them competitive.

Teams who'd like to stay up but will need to put forward strong case (for various reasons) include:

Frankston, Eltham, Hume City, Werribee, Casey, Keilor

Just asking a odd question ... but could a league request that clubs invest a certain amount a bit like a reverse salary cap? Minimum $40k on players etc?

If they have tassie playing, why can't Mt Gambier also be added?

Not sure on the Mt Gambier issue but BV/BA have pretty much told Mt Gambier they should be joining SA state League as a viable alternative as the Tassie teams don't have an alternative and would effectively cease to exist if not admitted.

Anon #703158 - can you elaborate how anything I have said compares Geelong with Mt Gambier?

I would actually be happy to see Mt Gambier stay in a second tier competition based in the south and play against Victorian and Tasmanian teams, I was defending Geelong because it's a no brainer, I would defend Mt Gambier the same way if I lived there too.

Or, is that what you are speculating, that people from Mt Gambier deserve their team as much as anyone because of their success and their venue capacity, their history and potential growth etc...?

I had the opportunity to visit both Mt Gambier & Millicent last summer and while I noticed some positives in regards to how well these teams are supported (at CBL level and SEABL), I did however struggle to see how Mt Gambier in particular keeps serving up competitive teams.

I don't see that zone as being quite as strong as the Geelong zone. I mean in the potential growth, financially or in their available talent pool, however I would not suggest for a moment that they couldn't compete and improve their situation were they to remain.

They may rely more on imports and players from Adelaide, but if they can get them, great!

Their acceptance should come down to fitting the criteria and key performance indicators, plus all the other requirements that should be black and white once any new league is formed, so everyone is on the same page and it lifts the standard overall.

Maybe a few dollars could be thrown towards Mt Gambier by their local government, but their main issue is and always will be isolation, that we can agree I am sure is hard to resolve.

Casey are right next to Dandenong and a large number of teams in that SE East area already so for balance Casey might miss out.

Simply can't have every team in the top comp so some will miss out so you'd think certain criteria would have to be met like Stadium, Playing List, Youth Teams, Men & Women, Match Day etc.

Also needs to be a willingness from clubs to want to spend the additional money on better imports, Tassie Travel etc. (Some clubs in the past have not wanted to spend money on senior programs and imports etc so adding an extra $5/7K just in travel costs for a Tassie Trip before getting better imports x 4 might mean they don't apply and take a year or two in the lower div to consolidate.

As a league it would be better with the Tassie & Mt Gambier clubs in to as all have proven over the long run to be very competitive and succesful particulary when a few of the Big V teams and Frankston really should be in any premier division.

@Reality, cost will probably be the biggest hurdle, agree.

I always wondered why Dandenong hasn't adopted a similar model to Geelong (SEABL, BigV senior and youth, VJBL) pathways, but even Dandenong didn't want to spend the cash.

Not saying they weren't allowed because of the rules and blocking that pathway, but to be honest it can be a huge step up from Youth League to SEABL level and having a senior program between them just seems logical.

The new model will be very interesting to analyse...

...should read... even Dandenong probably didn't want to spend the cash.

Running some many teams does cost alot of money and i also understand why BV would want a Senior/YL team only approach so you don't just have the same 10/12 clubs with teams in each and every division and talent is disposed after YL to the appropriate level throughout the divisions.

The additional amount of money for a team to send 20 people for 2 nights to Tassie include bus hire/accommodation isn't cheap plus you'd think players will push for more cash with teams all playing in the same league it could push teams to spend more to keep/recruit players.

Since no actual or final decision on the structure of a new league appears to have been made and everything is still speculation, how can you come up with that conclusion anon?

Bear,

Kilsyth applied to the Big V for a Senior Team, to sit underneath the SEABL program as a bridge team, about 5 years ago.

This was denied by Big V. Only reason it occurs in Geelong is the Supercats are a different organisation to Geelong Basketball. Cash was not the issue.

Werribee seems like the most logical out of the Big V with their venue and area.

I believe the Pioneers have won the most SEABL championships.2003,2014,15,17 and have been r'up in 13 and 16. An amazing run. To credit only the coach for this is crazy. It took a horror run of injuries to slow them up this season. They have set the standard for 7 years for them not to be part of the plans for a high level comp moving forward would be disgraceful and a huge mistake.

Casey offering a number of players over $25k to step up from Snd play for their men's team in the new comp.

Cleary money to burn

*step up from SCM

Mt Gambier being told they aren't in the new Vic league has nothing to do with noses out of joint in Victora. Its simply a logistics/cost issue with travel as BV don't want another flight/road trip apart from the Tassie teams which as being grandfathered in by BA as part of the deal.

The pioneer have a viable comp in the state the are actually based which is the same reasoning the CABL gave to Miludra a few years ago when they got permission to apply to move to CABL but where denied!

Mt Gambier is the same distance from Adelaide it is from Melbourne, and closer to Geelong, Bendigo and Ballarat, so the travel would probably be less of an issue than it is in the SA comp.

Furthermore, the Pioneers are streaks ahead of the standard in SA, so BA would effectively reduce the appetite for basketball in that town by forcing them to play at a lower standard. The common sense decision here is to allow Mt Gambier, which is effectively a border town, to play in the same comp as the Tassie, NSW border and Vic teams.

Often true, sadly.

My other concern is the talent drain on officials, the Big V has struggled since it expanded with more YL Divisions the quality of officials has been poor in the lower levels Div 2 YL1/YL2 and it only likely to get worse.

I know its a tough job being a ref - but spreading the resources thin and making officials travel from albury to melbourne for Div 2 games you can't understand why they are grumpy and not interested.

I thinkt he Big V needs a shake up and a shake out of some teams, it also needs a shot in the arm from a media and interaction point of view a weekly video blog isn't good enough anymore in this day and age look at football leagues and rugby leagues the presentation has to be better, live streaming with commentary, media pieces more links to local papers .... make the league a destination

@Paul commonsense would have said Mildura would have joined CABL when they applied a few years back but it was knocked on the head.

Basketball Adminstrators are lowly paid and hence often the management of league/clubs and peak bodies leaves alot to be desired particulary when it comes to common sense.

Personally i think Mildura should be in the CABL and Pioneers in any new BV league just purely for a competitive/logistics point of view both make complete sense.

Pretty sure they are called Albury-Wodonga Bandits so they might be a chance to stay in any new league thats run by BV as can't imagine they'd want to be in Waratah consider the level of the distance to Sydney/Central Coast/Newcastle etc

Albury/Wodonga will not be playing Waratah - end of story and for various reasons, they will be in any new form of league that SEABL takes whether in 2019 or 2020 - see their Facebook page for their clear intentions for SEABL program and they have also stated today that they are introducing Yth League teams as well to broaden their pathway. They are going nowhere but where the best possibly league is for them as per current SEABL product.

How is BV behavior predatory? Mount have a perfectly good state league to play in called the CABL, just ask Mildura how much they like doing the 6 hour drive to Melbourne when its shorter to Adelaide.

So I wouldn't say BV are doing anything another state organisation hasn't done already.

The real issue you should have is with BA for not grandfathering in Mount like they are trying to do with the Tassie teams.

Mount don't need grandfathering just fair and reasonable support from BA. They would obviously enhance any new competition.

ALbury-Wodonga is interesting the BigV Already has the Nort East Bushrangers who play in various stadiums in that area (with a poor supporter base, friends and parents) i would think they can't both survive.

I think Mount would be great in the Vic League, it would up budget needs and that has to be a concern. SA seem to be the ones not helping the situation if they have no intention of taking a team from the state in their league????

Why should the Vic league take in an SA team? When the SA team isn't any closer to Melb than Adel?

I'd love Mount in the Vic league but its an additional costs not all BV members in that league will want to take on.

Why should the SA clubs take the extra cost.

Especially considering the lack of domestic competitons and therefore funds to offset the cost.

Fees to play for a club in SA would already be double that for a Vic club.

If Darwin can have its own league I struggle to see how Tassie can't get one off the ground

This makes no sense. So it was intended for those outside of Vic to play in their own states. Canberra to Waratah not their state, Tassy teams to Melbourne, not their state, COE ??? (they'll end up in Vic because it suits BA) - not their state. Pioneers to Adelaide yes their state but complete mismatch. There is no common sense or practical plan in any of this. Particularly as SEABL was a great and viable competition. Basketball Victoria are the only beneficiaries of this decision.

Tassy has 2 solid leagues. One in Hobart and the other in Launceston.
This is about Vic having the premier competition and they cant do that without including Tassy teams.

Mt Gambier is the Basketball SA league would be a huge mis match as well.

Not to mention they don't have a women’s team like all other teams in the league.

Tassie doesn't have a state comp and thats the point it has 2 region comps that then have a team each in the larger rep comp.

The Mount Situation is very different as its clear they are an SA team which has a viable state league.

At Least Albury Wondonga are half Vic/NSW so makes sense they'll be in the BV.

Tassie have no where else o pay so make sense they would be in BV

Mount have a state league in the actual state they are from plus you might find Mount won;t dominate as a number of Adelaide guys will go back and play for Adelaide teams now that they all play in the same league.

Ok, I am about to launch from left field, bare (no pun intended) with me while I try to throw a spanner into this conversation.

The dialogue has been consistently pushing towards problems, winding SEABL down and pushing the State leagues into stepping up and taking on their own teams while the majority agree that Vitoria will remain dominant.

Why not look at it from an opposing angle?

I have not done the analysis or structure planning for this idea, I am just throwing it out there to see if anyone sees traction in it.

Here goes:

Reform SEABL if you want, but instead of limiting it, expand it as a true national league that includes State competition with national competition, introduce conferences and get the NBL on board to help run it as a winter version of the NBL Light or whatever.

If we can unite the basketball heavy weights and get everyone in the same bloody room and on the same damn page, why can't we go a fully semi-pro competition during winter with plenty of teams, work out logistics and other cost factors but present it as a huge improvement.

Go national, get the media on board, approach the Foxtel and free to air networks with this concept, give the NBL players a chance to stay here on some reduced wage, provide a reasonable set of rules to keep salaries in check and bloody well go for it...!

There, I've thrown it, now is anyone prepared to catch it and run with it?

@Bear great idea but history shows each state and certain clubs are more worried about self interest than anything else.

It took the NBL to pretty much fold before people at the national level put the game above self interest.

In the end self interest always wins and is the default position in human nature which explains why certain systems of government/social systems don't work.

There is nothing to be gained by putting Mt Gambier into the Adelaide competition. They still have to do just as much travel, Adelaide clubs will have to be do travel they're not interested in (as shown by Mildura not being admitted), interest in basketball in Mt Gambier will wane due to the drop in standard, and over time the standard of the Pioneers will drop, effectively sabotaging what's probably one of this country's top 10 senior basketball clubs.

They are 17km from the Victorian border, there is no reason why they can't continue to play against the same clubs as they have for years and years. It will only be good for second tier basketball. No one wins from them playing in Adelaide.

@Reality, I get what you are saying, but I refuse to believe the reason basketball can't move forward in this country is because of self interest and human nature.

We are already talking about SEABL being broken down and restructured, all we need now is some forward thinking leadership!

Is that too much to ask for...?

@Bear i wish it wasn't the case but history shows basketball is run by lowly paid administrators who hold grudges and have agendas.

Hopefully common sense prevails on the SEABL issue but then again who would have thought BA would scrap it 3 years after taking it over as that doesn't show much common sense or vision.

@Anon don't think anyone is suggest Mount are a better run orgniaseation than many current SEABL or BV teams it more a logistics/cost issue for Melb based clubs.

Just on the cost issue surrounding teams going to Mt Gambier, we need to look at it objectively.

It costs Mt Gambier ten times what it costs any other single team in their Division to do that trip...

If Mt Gambier is happy to enter and pay for the logistics at their end the argument is moot against them IMHO...

@Bear Mount are also better resourced from a sponsorship point of view compared with a number of Melbourne teams and they understand those extra costs when they enter any league.

If a number of teams in Melb metro are looking at increased player costs (Which will happen in merged comp) together with a tassie trip I can't see why they'd want to be lining up to throw in another cost with a trip if they don't have to.

Teams like Eltham, DV, Werribee, Hume, Waverley, Keilor, Knox & Ringwood suddenly have vastly increased costs if they stay in the top div plus player retention just got more expensive so can't see them lining up to give Mount a leg up or themselves a downgrade to a lower div.

**I could probably include Sandy, Frankston in the above as well.

Also a bit selfishly too a few teams might be eyeing off some of the SA talent who want to showcase themselves in a better league!

Two things:

1. It isn't a vastly increased cost, it is an overnight stay if you want it to be.

2. Factor it in and budget for it like everyone else, or get a sponsor, like Mt Gambier does.

These are excuses in my mind, not reasons...

@Anon don't disagree with your senitments around putting the money in and at senior level they don't but some of these melbourne clubs will hold signifcant power over BV becuase of the size of there junior programs etc.

Getting additional sponsors etc is easier said than done and the cost to send a team to Mount is about $450/480 per head. once you factor in flights, Bus Rental, Fuel & Accommodation. (That alot of extra cash just for your mens team!) Plus with Mount being successful you might have to go again come playoffs.

So if you send only 10 is $4,800 which is alot of money! if you've already been forced into the Tassie trip which is the best part of $7K so all of a sudden a BV team now has to find an extra 12K-15K which is easier said than done.

Pretty sure Bunnings aren't going to give you 7 cracks at a sausage sizzle! Plus who is volunteering to man 7 sausage sizzles?

@Anon lolz chocolate drive next it will be cake sales!

The easier route is simply to say no to Mount and even perhaps Tassie to save on costs.

Fact is, all the VIC SEABL clubs are already travelling to Mt Gambier and Tassie...what would change?

If the Vic 'Premier League' pans out, the in reality, the majority of current Big V Champ clubs will still be playing in a lower level.

While I am an advocate of the SEABL and do not want it to go, apart from losing Canberra and Sydney Sparks, not much really changes apart from BV running the show compared to BA.

The challenge as I see it is whether BV can cope with running another Big V division that is elite. It would be divisions in total....Premier, Champ, D1, D2, VYC, YL1, YL2 if nothing else changed.

Possible Vic Structure:

PREMIER LEAGUE (2 conferences of 8)

Dandenong
Kilsyth
Geelong
Bendigo
Ballarat
Sandringham
Hobart
NW Tassie
Albury/Wodonga
Mt Gambier
Nunnawading
Frankston
Melbourne
Diamond Valley
Ringwood
Eltham

VIC CHAMPIONSHIP (2 conferences of 8)

Waverley
Casey
Hawthorn
Knox
McKinnon
Hume City
Werribee
Keilor
Blackburn
Corio
Chelsea
Shepparton
Keysborough
Western Port
Warrandyte
Warrnambool


DIVISION ONE (2 conferences of 8)

Melbourne Uni
Bulleen
Collingwood
Whittlesea
Sunbury
Latrobe
Coburg
Craigieburn
Camberwell
Mildura
Melton
Sth Peninsula
Pakenham
Altona
Maccabi
Wallan
Sherbrooke
Nth East

2×9 for Div1 sorry ^^

Love it, Bear! Weren't BA going to be responsible for the 2nd tier national comp some 3 to 4 years ago?

Clubs in SA simply can't afford it because BasketballSA take all the competition revenue.

Plus they charge clubs to practice at their home stadium at market rates.

And then take all the money for domestic competitons for themselves. A few clubs are now in the infancy stages of running their own comps. But they are still very small.

BSA can’t demand teams travel to ply, because clubs will unite against them and ALL refuse to do it.

There is no compelling reason for them to change.

What is unbelievable is that BV and the member clubs want to take over SEABL and have done a back door deal with BA. And then don’t want to spend the money it takes to play at that level.

No SA club is under any illusion that they are competitive with SEABL clubs. But Vic clubs want to try their hand. So pony up and travel. Or play second tier. Like the SA league is.

Anon above. I figure your guessing just like everyone else. Your right Mount Gambier don't have any leverage just 30 years of history in what was a successful and vibrant competition. Maybe they can put a women's team in the competition? Who knows what the requirement is? All of this is ill conceived, poorly planned and irresponsible. BA thought they had 12 months to get things in order and now are trying to, with BV to set things up on the fly. Expect a mess.

Clubs are scrabbling around for solutions, Big v is under pressure from its current clubs as many had worked hard to get to the top division and recruited players/coaches and organised budgets around this and are proud that they did what was required to get there.

To suddenly throw in 1 or 2 expensive road trips is a huge last minute curve ball when most clubs won't be in a position to find the extra $15K.

I can understand Mount people aren't happy but i can't see the other point of veiw when Mount clearly have a viable local state league to enter.

It's not any more of a local state league for Mt Gambier than the proposed one that will replace SEABL with almost all the existing SEABL clubs. Their closest trips are Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo.

Reality and anon #529

The issue is that BSA own the venue leases and lock clubs out. They take all the revenue so clubs are unable to manage expansion because they have no revenue to pay staff other than fees which are already exorbitant compared to other sports and interstate.

The Western Magic situation best shows how badly run BSA are. They did not bring an increase in playing numbers as they claimed. They were set up at the same venue as a current club and merely moved players across from close clubs by offering lower fees and no pathways. And now complain because despite not wanting to have senior teams, they want the opportunity in higher grades for their junior.

If this club was set up at Salisbury where no current clubs pull players. No one would have an issue, but the lies and underhanded methods they have used is a huge issue.

Until the commission and BSA change their operation methodology, the clubs cannot grow to the point where they are able to travel to Mildura, My Gambier or anywhere else.

Clubs struggled to attend National ABL weekends due to money and nothing has changed since.

Anon #623

Name one other situation where 2 associations operate out of the same stadium in Vic?

Clubs are the equivalent of associations in SA.

Clubs have struggled to run domestic comps because BSA have historically rented the facilities out to other competitons. Most notably Church Basketball.

And they also stop clubs from using the stadiums on weekends when ever they want for other carnivals, competitons etc.

Plus BSA make more from rent per hour than the clubs running those competitions do. Which currently are very small.

The only club able to run real domestic competitons. Note that is plural. Is Norwood as they don't have to deal with BSA run stadiums.

When Wayville stadium opened. Church ran Saturday competitons from 1pm-6pm and have done so since.

When Pasadena opened. It did the same. I've played and coach in Church competitons at both as well as at Hillcrest.

Those domestic competitons have a clause isn’t whir contract about allowing BSA to use thei venue at their discretion with 6 week notice. Is for country carnivals etc. Or TI camps. And they do.

BSA charge $30+ minimum per court per hour which is more than half or what what is made by the competitons per game.

Norwood are the only club running mid week minivall and domestic games.

All Facts.

Easy to call Fake news. But sorry you sound like Donald Trump.

Btw. Still waiting for you to point out which associations are sharing their factory in Vic.

What about how those things happened when Pasadena opened as well. And the only reason they don't apply now is because church have steadily decrease in numbers since the advent of domestic competitions.

The issue is that clubs can’t generate income. The reason the sport doesn’t grow in SA is because BSA wastes money rather than putting it back into programs which create money.

That doesn’t change. Of BSA were reasonable with rentals. Club could devote more of the competition revenue to infrastructure to increase competition size. Thus helping grow the spot and increase BSA revenue. It’s a short sighted idea to rip profits and not put it back into increasing participation levels.

You need to go and look at the Knox or Dandenong competition websites. The Vic based clubs all run week day domestic competitons. Because Dandenong has a full quota of games on saturdays with just their u12-u16 competitons. And that’s on 16 courts. They use other nights and after schools to run their girls, older and younger competitons. And BV only gets rego fees. BSA gets it all.

What’s stopping the other from doing it is employing someone, because BSA won’t help them, and you can’t pay someone to start it when you aren’t generating any income from it.

I actually said 'which Vic associations are using the the same facilities’ but thanks for going back 20 years in SA to prove you can’t win an argument.

Woodvile actually were in huge debt to BSA as well and pulled out of SEABL because it couldn’t continue to waste that money. And look where they are now.

However this all gets sorted out from now, it's already taken too long. It’s a joke when clubs (both SEABL and Big V) don’t know the structure of what they’ll be playing in next season, in the time where they start recruiting. Amateur hour.

Correct. This is a "sad joke" BA have gone off half cocked and now we have total uncertainty about clubs futures with no notice. Spare a thought for players who have moved their lives and have jobs and families and now are told they have no basketball future if they don't move again. Who is responsible for this?

Many players aren't signing onto clubs until they know whats happening as well.

Its madness that some many people are in limbo until October the 5th!

Surely BA had a plan already before they drop the bomb on the SEABL delegates at the grand final, they must have not understood the significant push back and ill feeling this would create.

If they didn't have a plan then heads at BA need to roll as a result of this complete PR and planning disaster

@Anon your spot on the money from all reports and everyone talking at the Vic club level.

I think the demise of the SEABL is actually a progressive step towards bringing back an end-of-season 'National Championship'.

- SEABL disbanded and replaced by an expanded BigV (including the Tassie teams).
- Mt Gambier and Albury would stay in the BigV due to their strength.
- Canberra and AIS into the Waratah League.

8-team National Championship at the end of the year....

3x BigV/Tas
2x QBL
1x WA SBL
1x SA Premier League
1x Waratah

The National championships would be great to get back as a real festival of semi-pro bball in Australia.

We'd need all the state leagues to have finals at the same time so we'd have a straight two week lead into the championships at most (otherwise keeping imports etc might be tough!)

Back on the Mt G issue they'll need a womens team as the Vic teams will be pushing pretty hard for that the be the case in the elite division.

Can't see why Mount couldn't do it and run it along the lines of the mens team and get some of the best Adelaide based talent.

Obviously the NWT mens sink in well with the Torns so its a simple fit.

@Anon BV will view the Torns & NWT as one club when fixtures are done.

Basketball Tasmania CEO Chris McCoy can see plenty of light at the end of the tunnel for Tasmania's three SEABL clubs after Basketball Australia’s announcement that it was withdrawing its support of the league.

With the chances of the SEABL not even being around even for next season looking more likely by the day, McCoy was confident that the North-West Thunder, Launceston Tornadoes and Hobart Chargers would be playing in a quality competition in 2019.

"We are working pretty hard with Basketball Australia and Basketball Victoria to explore the opportunity of our teams being part of a premier league in Victoria which they are trying to establish," McCoy said.

“Basketball Australia’s decision came as shock to everyone, but now we’ve had a time to reflect, it’s also a great opportunity for the country to get their competitions better aligned.

“I can see the premier league standard being very similar to SEABL and involving all of the current Victorian SEABL teams, with Albury-Wodonga having the choice of joining New South Wales or Victoria and Mount Gambier most likely going to the South Australian league.

“The view is to then form a national championship weekend where all the top state conference teams come together.”

McCoy added that the SEABL had provided a valuable pathway for Tasmanian players and it was vital for that level of competition to continue.

“Basketball has been on a nice upswing both in Tasmania and in Australia and it’s important we have these pathway pieces in place for them to come through,” McCoy said.

“The second-tier national level has proven to be a great level for a lot of our players.”

Looks like Tassie seem to think they'll be safe and Mount will be heading to SA.

That may be what BTas think and BA would like. Anyone that understands
the premier league and Mount Gambier know its a terrible fit. Neither party would be keen. Mount Gambier should be afforded the same opportunity that Albury and the Tas clubs look like having. Clearly having a women's team should be a requirement.

MG do have a viable competition to join and that's the one they have been part of for 30 plus years. They have never been asked to have a women's team but should be now. To expect the team that has been the most successful in the competition over the last 6 years (5 finals and 3 championships)to go and play in a competition far inferior to SEABL in not practical or morally right. It may be convenient for BA but not for MG or BSA. The new Vic comp is just SEABL rebranded to suit a few Melbourne powerbrokers minus Canberra and MG. Canberra going to Waratah is probably practical (certainly not their state league)and they may be ok with that. BTW travelling to MG for Melbourne teams is far more cost effective than travelling to Tas and then driving the length of the state.

Anon above. Good point Mount Gambier has provided a vehicle for many young SA players to compete at a higher level without moving to Melbourne or Queensland. This has enabled their families to follow them by regularly travelling to games. Most regional SEABL teams are full of non locals. Mount Gambier have been developing local talent with 7 of their squad of 13 this season mount juniors. Their Adelaide "imports" have all settled in the city. There is no reason for this trend not to continue if the Pioneers remain in a next level comp.

Your 100% right above. The ? must be asked why this is happening and why a club with great success and 30 years of history is being compromised when others are not. If you had a club that you love and that club had been successful and had acted in good faith for decades how would you feel if it was asked to go play in a completion that it is clearly too good for and which would likely lead to either total domination of the competition or extinction for your club. All of this with no notice.

Canberra have been in a bad way for a number of years the Waratah makes alot of sense for them.

Don't count Frankston into SEABL the amount of money they are paying out in compensation to ex employees they wont be able to pay for VJBL registration. 2 cases in at fair work 1 more in process. BV 3 month independent investigation (costing thousands) is finished by independent body and will be presented to BV in a week. Members up in arms about everything going on. when does this end when does the members get a real chance to take the club back. When will the report be published what are BV going to do. CEO loses a 17 million funding for basketball and keeps his job anyone else would be at Centrelink. It will never end until the people who have done so much wrong are removed and the people of Frankston make the club great again. FDBA will be out of there when lease is up then what happens. All it needs is a special general meeting from the members to force a new vote for a new direction.

STAND UP FRANKSTON MEMBERS TAKE YOUR CLUB BACK BEFORE ITS LOST
DRAIN THE POND !!!!!!!

Frankston are cooked from all reports.

Good chance they won't be in SEABL or a new BV Premier div with some serious behind the scenes problems as mentioned above.

It might be best from Frankston to do a knox and step back for a few years to regroup.

So aside from the conjecture of Mt Gambier and where they will (if at all) play, how will this new competition work ?
Will it be sitting within BV, completely autonomous from the Big V ?
Or will it sit above the Big V, as the new top Division, adding some of the stronger clubs in State Champ, with the remaining teams to filter through into the lower divisions.
Will this new structure then also have Promotion / Relegation (as the Big V has now) ?
Will the remaining State Champ teams become Division 1 now, with the rest of the Divisions to follow ?

I know a few local coaches that don't know how to recruit because they don't know where they'll sit in the new structure.
Will the new "Division one ", which would contain many of the State Champ teams from 2018, be allowed 2 restricted players as they always have been ?
Or being in the second tier of the comp, would they lose that right ?

Anyone out there with some knowledge / sources able to answer any of this ?

Wonder what would happen if there was no restriction of players at all.

That would mean that state leagues & SEABL clubs would have all NBL players and any imports they wanted/can afford. Maybe, we would see NBL players gracing our off season leagues instead of heading OS. The best will still go OS, the rest can stay in game fitness and "touch" in our own leagues, even in their home environs.

Obviously, some cashed-up clubs will spend big and create a few super teams. Say 2 or 3 per state and perhaps more in Vic. Could be the 2nd tier national comp we hear about year after year.

What about the costs? Sure they would be so high that the vast majority of clubs would stay put. The ones who can afford to go bonkers with spending on players can also afford the subsequent costs of this super league.

Finally (probably not actually, "finally", but anyway), with the inevitable expansion of the NBL, the super league would prepare more of our up-and-comers better in a league that featured unrestricted players across the board, rather than a league that effectively limits how many "top" players are allowed.

Then, Mt G and the Tassie teams would be well catered for, 1 or 2 FNQ teams and Gold and Sunny coasts may be interested, know little of elsewhere but certainly believe 3 , 4 or 5 clubs from Vic, NSW may good for 2,3 or 4, be good if SA could get 1 more and even WA for at least 2 teams (would not travel there for just 1 game per trip from any where else.) NT, hullo... any interest?

There, a long post with some of my thoughts. If you got this far, I thank you for your effort.

Nope. Not sure that anyone does at this stage.

Posted on Tuesday, December 16th, 2014


Basketball Australia will take on the basketball operations, marketing and communications of the League. Anthony Moore, Chief Executive Officer, said "The SEABL provides a tremendous opportunity for Basketball Australia to work more closely with the SEABL Clubs, many of which have significant numbers of domestic basketballers playing on their home courts each week.

“The SEABL provides a wonderful pathway for our young players to aspire to as well as our coaches and referees to work their way through the system to participate in this great League."

Moore added “The SEABL basketball operations will be embedded with our business and our commercial & marketing operations will include the SEABL in our daily work. We are genuinely excited about the opportunity to continue the great work of our friends in the SEABL organisation.”

Planning for the 2015 season is well underway and the SEABL fixture will be released early in the New Year.