Olgun is saying these will be announced 5pm AEST

Ive heard it will be announced at 5:00PM AEST.

I heard it was going to be announced closer to 4:30pm Adelaide time

3.00pm for us in WA.

Matt Logue has implied that there will be no life bans imposed. That is very surprising for those throwing chairs and coward punches.

A report on SBS states that the findings are "unlikely to be made public straight away". It also states "Basketball Australia will have up to three days to respond to the governing body's sanctions before releasing their own statement."

I have also read that Australia was allowed extra time to submit evidence to FIBA. What does BA have to defend? The provocations that riled Kickert up (trip pre-game, minor altercations with Ponoy, Ponoy's attempts on Goulding) provide some context, but do they excuse his strike at all? I doubt it. I could see BA making a more firm argument to support Maker involvement. The only others are Goulding and Sobey, who appeared in the footage to be victims, rather than instigators or aggressors. Do they need to defend tearing up the decals? Perhaps the extra time given to BA was in response to the emphasis on provocations (decals, pre-game incidents) Philippines basketball made in their submission to FIBA?

I'd like to hear why Goulding and Sobey were ejected. Are we all missing something in all the footage of the incident? I'm concerned that, like Goulding and Sobey seemed to be sacrificed in the game to make the punishments appear more equal, we might get a situation where Kickert and Maker are dealt with very harshly to make up for the many punishments handed out to the Philippines team.

Suspensions are recommended by FIBA following ejections, so FIBA will automatically consider Goulding and Sobey for possible suspensions.

If these FIBA recommended penalties are accurate:
http://www.tcyba.org/_literature_95475/FIBA_Recommended_Penalties


If Goulding and Sobey were ejected due to "baiting or taunting" an opponent, that's a recommended 1 game suspension. Maker might get 2 games for "an attempt to strike an opponent with a fist, hands, leg or feet".

I guess we will find out 7:00AM GMT.

If Maker is suspended, does he serve the suspension in the NBA or only Boomers games?

It goes one or both of two ways:


1) Aussies get punished because a fight existed in the first place without doing anything whatsoever that should be punished/to even out penalties between two sides: ie, bench who did nothing, Goulding who's crime was to be assaulted, Sobey who's crime was to be coward punched and have a chair thrown at him, Caddee who's crime it was to make the peace

2) Light sanctions occur of just fines or minor suspensions, effectively promoting Filipino behaviour

With Thon Maker's advanced age a lengthy suspension could spell the end of his career.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/basketball/australian-boomers-and-philippines-players-handed-fines-and-bans-by-fiba-for-on-court-brawl/news-story/58d13a7888a359619288ec2d42ec3d1a


Kind of laughable, and kind of expected tbh. Goulding getting a game is interesting though.

Phillipines: 10 players suspended.

Philippines

Players

Japeth Aguilar and Matthew Wright (1 game each)
Terence Romeo, Jayson Castro William, Andray Blatche and Jeth Rosario (3 games each)
Roger Pogoy, Carl Cruz and Jio Jalalon (5 games each)
Calvin Abueva (6 games, due also to prior unsportsmanlike behavior in a FIBA competition).

Coaches:
Joseph Uichico is suspended for 3 games for unsportsmanlike behavior. Head Coach Vincent 'Chot' Reyes is suspended for 1 game and shall pay a disciplinary fine of CHF 10,000 for inciting unsportsmanlike behavior.

Philippines will play the next home game behind closed doors while a ban for two more home games has been placed under a probationary period of 3 years. SBP shall also pay a disciplinary fine of CHF 250,000 ($338,160 AU).

Australia

Players

Chris Goulding (1 game),
Thon Maker (3 games)
Daniel Kickert (5 games)

Basketball Australia shall pay a disciplinary fine of CHF 100,000 ($135K AU) for the unsportsmanlike behavior of its players and for abusing and/or tampering of equipment, after having removed floor stickers from the court on the eve of the game.

The referees of the game shall be removed with immediate effect from the FIBA Elite Program and shall not be nominated to any international competitions organized or recognized by FIBA (including at Zone and Sub-zone level) for a period of one year.

Seems a bit light-on, although the fines are pretty heavy.

Massive joke but expected soft crap from FIBA.
Didn't want to do big penalties as it would just highlight how bad it was again.

Wow - referees cop way harsher punishments than any of the people who incited or committed violence.

SMH

I'm just pleased that the forum is showing a fine understanding of time zones.

Love the GMT reference: It’s zulu time for announcements about a war zone.

Interesting re the ref penalties.

FIBA basically sending out a message that the refs had a higher degree of responsibility than the players, for not maintaining control.

The loss of home games and closed door game is appropriate.

I wonder if the Filipino association also has to submit revised risk assessments and risk management plans before they host another open door game? Security firm and personnel should also be changed. Bolted down seats?

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/basketball/13-players-suspended-national-bodies-fined-as-fiba-issues-brawl-bans-20180719-p4zsga.html

How does that work for the next FIBA window, can they bring additional players into the squad to play those games or only use players already nominated into their squad?

$330,000 Fine for the Filipino team... can they afford that?

Weak.

And so this answered my earlier question. Clearly FIBA either cannot or didn't want to suspend players from their domestic competitions.

I would've preferred separate penalties. Say 10 FIBA games and 15 domestic league games for those Filopinos who came off the bench and assaulted players.

That would be complicated by leagues though- 3 NBA games is equivalent to 1 NBL game given the season is 3* as long.

Absolute joke that Goulding got suspended too.

Tracey Holmes and the ABC owe some people a public apology too.

Or will Tracey Holnes double down and publicise some random observer's accusations that the investigative process was racist because FIBA’s run by "western" nations???

I don't have too many issues with the suspensions but the $$$$ amounts are crazy IMO.
FIBA Head Office Christmas Party is gonna be lit this year.

FIBA an absolute joke. Simply pathetic.

Why hand out stiffer penalties to the refs than those given to the cowardly players & officials who assaulted the Australian players.

Players should pursue criminal &/or civil action over the incident.

Who was the PH assistant coach that was kicking and hitting Goulding with a chair?

Coach Joseph Uichico was the coach who slammed the chair down on Goulding then laid a few punches while he was down, he got 3 games.

Certainly wasn't expecting any tough sanctions, and I predicted Kickert would cop it to even things out,...
But this is a crock of shit.

How is Kickert's elbow equivalent to, or worse than, the subsequent behaviour of Flippers who ran onto court punching and kicking, including licking Goulding in the head whilst on the ground.

Any chance BA will have the balls to appeal this?

Based upon the standard set, maxmium penalty of 5 games (6 with priors) Kickert should get maybe 2 or 3, and that's it.

As for the fine imposed for ripping up the decals, WTF.

FIBA is a joke of an organisation

If I'm Goulding and Sobey, I’m going into legal action against those who punched and threw chairs

Goulding's punishment is remarkable. Had it been any other game, against any other opponent, any "niggles" with other players would have been totally ignored. FIBA ought to state clearly the reasons for Goulding's punishment. FIBA is sending a message that trash-talk is punishable if the opponent has an outrageous response. If Goulding is being punished for seemingly exaggerating Ponoy's contact, that would also be ridiculous as Ponoy had shown he was trying to make contact with Goulding and Goulding's natural response should be to evade contact. There is a certain degree of evasion, pulling the head back, where you must fall to the ground. It might pejoratively called a flop, but given the context, it is very much a reasonable defensive move.

Do these proceedings also clear Sobey, suggesting he shouldn't have been ejected in the first place? I suggest Sobey receive a get-out-of-an-ejection card for use in a game in the future.

If we are to use a 5+ game punishment for Pogoy and 4 other Gilas players as a benchmark, Castro and Romeo got off lightly with only 3 games. Both went with jumping punches to the head of Kickert and Maker respectively. This seems more absurd given Romeo's post-game comments and his history in the PBA. Kickert's actions should be in a similar category as they were acts of aggression, not defense, based on retaliation. I'd put Kickert's punishment as more than 5 games because his strike was most extreme, particularly dangerous, and his target had no idea the strike was coming.

Shame Longley didn't get a few punches in considering the paltry penalties. Incredibly short sighted penalties by FIBA that will end up coming back to haunt them... If a coach can throw a chair at a player and get 3 games, what's going to stop similar incidents from escalating to that ridiculous point in the future?

Agreed, KET. If FIBA doesn't do anything to punish people who throw chairs, then legal avenues should be pursued. Especially the assistant coach.

Those who attacked Sobey and Goulding, two players who didn't act violently at all, should, if anything, receive much bigger punishments. Especially when they are attacking someone defenseless on the floor. If Joseph Uichico deserves a lifetime ban. Coaches should be expected to have greater restraint than the players. Coaches participating in the brawl are only encouraging their players to brawl. 3 games for repeatedly kicking and throwing a chair on Goulding is absolutely ridiculous. How can he possibly have the same punishment as Maker? He is a coach, ffs!

* Joseph Uichico deserves a lifetime ban.

ROFL at all the "legal avenues" comments.

WTF do you expect our guys to do? Launch legal action in a Philippines' court?

Disgusting joke


If 3 games is the going rate I'll be at 2023 FIBA with the chair from game of thrones


The variance between what Goulding got for being a punching bag, what maker got for flailing around like that too drunk guy on the dance floor at 3am, and kicketts over reaction elbow to people coming out of the stands and throwing chairs and cowards punch is way too small.


Social level bball comps suspend guys for a year to indefinitely for punches on the court. If someone came from off the court they would never play again. Jokes on you FIBA.

Am I the only one who thinks goulding punishment is fair, perhaps even a little light? Fiba had access to the whole tape and obviously made the decision for a reason. Incessant flopping and princess behaviour = inciting unsportsmanlike behaviour. Sucked in goulding

Violence and thuggery is well known in the domestic PHL league and the behavior of their clownish coach and hangers-on officials during the melee is consistent with "local character".

I have been told this by an import pro who has played in SE Asian league for a few years now. He said to me that Goulding/Kickett had it coming to them, given the local culture.

But the match being played in Manila was a FIBA sanctioned international match, not a domestic grade match.

And international teams playing the PHL national team should expect that PHL basketball admin has its act together; that its coach won't incite violence; that its bench won't empty; that its officials won't join in the assaults.

The FIBA penalties for the PHL coach and officials are far too lenient.

The following message needs to be given - the onus is on PHL to lift the standard of their behavior when playing in international comps; the onus is NOT on international teams (and FIBA) to LOWER their admin standards to PHL domestic grade levels.

Anon, if your opponent was wildly swinging arms on offense to deck you, you wouldn't pull away to try to avoid the contact?

Even if Goulding was doing the floppiest of flops in basketball flop history, do you really think it should be dealt with by a tribunal? If they were so obvious, why weren't the refs calling it out?

And I'm not sure what the punishment is for "princess behaviour". Perhaps FIBA needs to update its rulebook for that.

rjd, no. I'd fkn deck him and cop the fine. Goulding is a lil mama's boy wannabe showman. It's the faux modesty

As for the suspensions generally, 5 games of FIBA internationals is actually a lengthy suspension. There are, what, about 3 windows each year, of two games each? So 5 games is coming close to losing an entire year.

In the major tournaments, teams play about 6-8 games, while Australia has only played 6 games in the last few WCs. From now, a 5-game suspension will keep them out from qualification games until February next year. That's 7 months away.

Do friendlies count towards the suspension?

Will Maker be able to use the November window to use up 1 of his games, considering he wouldn't play anyway with NBA commitments? If so, the 2 game suspension I had expected for him is no different to his 3 game suspension.

For the September window with Maker, Goulding and Kickert all unavailable can the Boomers bring in other players eg Mills, Motum etc?

Or do they have to be from 24 man squad ?

Should be the last we see of Kickert for Australia.

The result of this clearly corrupt investigation is so ridiculous it isn't really worth talking about. FIBA making FIFA look good.

And Anon suggesting Goulding deserved it - you’re a genuine fuckwit.

Suggesting Goulding deserved to be attacked does make you a fuckwit.
Kickert deserves his punishment though.

I want to see Refs decking bench players as they try and get on the court. With a year suspension in the balance, its well worth their effort to stop any brawl with as much force at their disposal.

Sobey is the unluckiest man alive. Gets head butted twice in the Grand Final series and is the only one ejected.

Gets smashed with a chair and punched to the face after tugging on a shirt to stop a player getting jumped, gets ejected. On review found to have not even being worth a fine.

The sad thing from Basketball Australia perspective. Aussie mums and dads are getting an increase in fees getting filtered down to the grass roots to cover this $135k fine. BA board and CEO won't be paying out of their own budgets.

I can understand WHY Goulding was punished, if you take the view that his ridiculous flop incited the Kickert elbow, and sparked what follows.
But the scale is completely off.

If Goulding gets 1 game, then fair enough Kickert gets 5, but half the Flipper team and coaches should be banned for life along with their children and grandchildren.
Alternatively, if you accept the maximum penalty handed out, then CG deserves a fine of around 50c.

Starting to wish it had actually been a brawl and we'd beaten the shit out of them. Doesn't bode well for future games, when people know they can kick opponents in the head, and cop a maximum 5 game ban.

Goulding deserved more than 1 game for viciously headbutting multiple Philippine player's and staff's fists and feet while laying on the ground.......

How the guy who punched Sobey get's the same suspension as Kickert is beyond belief.

I think they got the Australian suspensions right except for Goulding.

The Philippine suspensions though are nothing more than a slap on the wrist for their display. Gutless by FIBA in my eyes.

The fine to BA. If the brawl doesn't happen then the fine for pulling off the decal doesn't occur. This is completely reactionary and FIBA clearly didn't look at the incident in isolation. By their thinking, if the Australian bench had ran into the fight then the Phillipines would have copped a heavier suspension for inciting the Australian bench.

Totally ridiculous and embarrassing by the governing body

The punishments seem fair but BA should appeal and get reductions as i expect the PBA will appeal.

People need to remember FIBA are like FIFA and they don't punish violent and poor behavior like the local sports in Australia do.

Its a simple fact that outside the bubble of Australia bball violence and poor crowd/offical behavior happens every week in the European/Asian & South American basketball leagues so in a global context we need to lighten up and understand this stuff happens and hopefully we appeal and get the bans and fines reduced.

That outcome is utterly ridiculous. It provides virtually zero deterrence for the shit the Philippines pulled. Why do we even bother with FIBA?

Yeah well if I'm an NBA player any glimmer of me turning out in these FIBA qualification games would be dead in the water. Also if I'm a team like the Bucks I'm turning around and saying no to releasing Delly etc. in future similar comps. It's already hard enough to get NBA players to get them here and then we get a light handed reaction like this creating even more worry for NBA teams.

Regarding PHI being able to pay the fine; easily. They have some pretty large commercial $ behind them. They're in a better state financially than I think anyone knows.

PHI have big money backing the local league and its a very well watched and attended sport so paying the fine will be no issue at all.

I won't be surprised if they appeals and the fine was changed to a suspended fine.

Reality says - "Its a simple fact that outside the bubble of Australia bball violence and poor crowd/offical behavior happens every week in the European/Asian & South American basketball leagues so in a global context we need to lighten up and understand this stuff happens and hopefully we appeal and get the bans and fines reduced."

I disagree with your characterization. Every week we see bench clearing, thrown chairs, assaults by officials? Every week? No!

What we saw in Manila was the most violent and frightening assault on Australian national players in ANY international sport in living memory. How Goulding and Sobey escaped more serious injury is a miracle.

I for one are not going to "lighten up". What occurred in Manila was extraordinary - and appeals to us to "lighten up" work to normalize such misconduct.

The PHL could have used this occasion as an opportunity to reform their sport - which is well known for its endemic corruption and malfeasance. Strong FIBA action could have assisted this process. Yet what have we seen since the Manila incident?

The fascist PHL coach and gangster officials have doubled down on their actions/attitudes in the weeks since the incident. That PHL have the gall to appeal to FIBA for its light touch penalties is consistent with their victim mentality and abject failure to accept responsibility for their actions. The selfies are still going on. They must be laughing their arses off.

With FIBA unwilling to provide a safe workplace, Australian players should take their own actions and boycott matches located in this despotic place.

"There is a certain degree of evasion, pulling the head back, where you must fall to the ground. It might pejoratively called a flop, but given the context, it is very much a reasonable defensive move."

rjd I always enjoy your posts and you come across as an intelligent human but my friend those comments are a large dose of horseshit to the nth degree (no emojis but I'm saying that with a smile on my face and not in anger)

Goulding is a known flopper and he exaggerated the contact 100% with no question of a doubt. He got hit but he milked it as he always does. Review the footage and see the "Oh f%ck what have I done?" look on his face when he sees how Kickert reacts while he's on the floor.

That being said, it no way excuses what follows and I don't believe it's worthy of suspenion. But mate....he flopped

There was a fair bit of contact there, Goulding is a flopper but the guy deliberately nailed him.

And I completely agree Paul. But you, I and the rest of the human race know he milked it

Of course Goulding is a known flopper, but that is mostly irrelevant in the play phase in question. Look at the lead up to it. Goulding knew that Ponoy was going at him. Of course Goulding should pull away from those wild swings. You really expect him to take the elbow to the face to get the charge call? I respect those that can take a hard charge, but that's going a bit far. I'd definitely be pulling back to avoid or minimise the contact too.

I totally get the disdain for flops, but what should you do when a player is attempting clear you out without a reasonable basketball play motive?

Can't believe Goulding is getting so much hate here. Yes, he normally flops quicker than almost anyone in the league, but to suggest this incident was flopping is showing your own personal bias.

Basketball Australia has the right to request the full reasons for decisions under the FIFA disciplinary rules. They should do so.

After receiving those full reasons, they can then assess whether an appeal is suitable.

Big difference between Drmics 55kg benchpress chest comes brushing up against you compared to a wild feral Filipino throwing arms and elbows at you

Basketball Australia Statement

The Board of Basketball Australia met today to consider the sanctions imposed by the FIBA Disciplinary Panel against the Australian Boomers and the national federation.

Following the meeting, Chief Executive Anthony Moore said: "Given the seriousness of this matter, Basketball Australia is giving careful consideration about the appeal process for these sanctions. While we indicated yesterday that it was unlikely that we would appeal, the Basketball Australia Board discussion today considered a range of options on this matter. We will receive further advice before making a determination on whether to proceed."

Under FIBA rules Basketball Australia has 14 days to appeal.

ENDS

Likely to cost BA a lot to appeal, and what would they appeal?

If they appeal that the Philo's sentences are too lenient, I wouldn’t fancy their chances of success, and it could certainly backfire.

If they leave it as is, they probably have a bit of in-principle support from the other Asian associations; if they appeal and come across as the rich white bullies, the other Asian associations will rush to get behind the Philos

BA should question FIBA as to which part of the $135k fine relates to the decal removal. Considering the motives were for player safety, the decals were added again before the game, and it was an issue BA had apologised to PBA for, who had accepted their apology prior to the game commencing, I'm surprised there would be any significant financial penalty attached to it.

The only other indiscretions by BA relate to two players. Why not fine the players specifically? Or why not state the fine for each player that BA has to pay on their behalf?


Let's do some completely hypothetical figures to arrive at the $135k figure:
- Kickert 5 games = A$50k
- Maker 3 games = A$30k
- Goulding 1 game = A$10k
- Decal removal = A$55k

Using the same 1 game = $10k figure, the PH team had suspensions of 34 games total => A$340k, which covers the entirety of the PH fines, NOT including the coaching indiscretions, the lack of security, the general mob attitude of the team, and any fines that should be assessed to account for the conduct of officials and fans. If we reduce the fines for each suspension, to account for all these other disciplinary fines, it would make the penalty for decal removal even higher. Would it be a proportional fine to attribute >$60k for the unauthorized decal removal? If decal removal was worth a large fine, what should the penalty be for providing an unsafe environment lacking adequate security?

IMO the fines appear to be a disproportionate.

Bit more info in this story ($33,954 for the decals):

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/basketball/basketball-australia-could-appeal-goulding-ban-fine-20180720-p4zsq5.html

If you are curious to compare these sanctions against most recent other brawls in internationals:

(Note that CHF is about equivalent to USD)

Serbia vs Greece 2011
https://youtu.be/ymr43dHcOQA

"FIBA, in a decision on Aug. 26, 2010, fined Krstic CHF45,000 and suspended him also for three games. Compatriot Serbian Teodosic and Greek players Fotsis and Schortsanitis were banned for two games.

The four players' suspensions applied during the 2010 FIBA World Championships. Meanwhile, the Serbian and Greek NFs were fined CHF20,000 apiece."

China vs Brazil 2011
https://youtu.be/A6mUm-0hlEI

"[China coach] Donewald was fined CHF40,000, suspended for three official games, and served a two-year probationaty period "during which an exemplary and sportsmanlike behaviour shall be expected."

Game suspensions were meted on Chinese national players Zhu Fangyu (two games), Sun Yue and Zhang Bo (a game apiece). The Chinese Basketball Association was also assessed a CHF20,000 fine, FIBA’s appeal committee decided.

Chinese referees for that China-Brazil friendly - Jiang Tongbiao, Jan Jun and He Luwei – were banned from nomination for official international competition for a period of one year “after failing to officiate according to the letter and the spirit of the Official Rules of Basketball,”

"AD getting real classy with the racial slurs tonight"

Sorry,
I suppose that's the question of when Slang becomes a Slur. Truly just laziness on my part.
I apologise, for any offence caused.

"If they appeal that the Philo's sentences are too lenient,"

They can't. They have no standing.
They can only appeal their own penalty.

I think that on principal, they should have supported appeals by Kickert and Maker, and used the opportunity to compare their penalties to the PHL penalties for worse behavior.

Appealing Goulding's one match ban, just seems like a waste of effort.
When is the next game?

Just been told Sobey has lawyered up and is suing.

Good on him, Goulding should do the same.

Good luck with finding an impartial jury

It's not like there isn't a shit ton of pretty undeniable evidence that Goulding & Sobey were assaulted so the case shouldn't be hard to prove but then the Phillipines Players/Coaches & Fans have a pretty good reason for such poor behavior that should be a pretty locked tight way out in a court of law.

BUT THE STICKERS!!!!!!

I guess it'll be in the Phillipines Court System.