koberulz
Years ago
Vice-captain Greg Hire re-signs with Wildcats
With the signing of Hire, the Wildcats now have one roster position remaining for the coming season.
He joins Bryce Cotton, Nick Kay, Mitch Norton, Tom Jervis, Damian Martin, Angus Brandt, Jesse Wagstaff, Clint Steindl and Rhys Vague on the roster ahead of the 2018/19 NBL season.
keep that 3rd import spot up their sleeve, can let Hire go mid-season if need be
Timberball
Years ago
2 import strategy for Wildcats. I like it, solid Aussie group with import flexibility if an injury occurs.
Timberball
Years ago
Delusional dreams of grandeur. Was a little disappointed.
Andrew
Years ago
Wait for him to get injured then replace him with an import
Martin / Norton
*Cotton / Steindl
*Prather(?) / Hire
Kay / Wagstaff / Vague
Brandt / Jervis
Dissapointing, hopefully cut him later on and bring in another import.
anon
Years ago
it'll either be injury insurance or see what the team needs to adjust to match league leaders later in the season then get import to suit.
Good strategy and with the locals they have signed it is one they have the luxury to run with to start the season.
If Steindl reverts back to what he is capable of then I like having Hire's energy on the boards on team. Hire can also shoot when he has his feet set quite efficiently.
Fingers crossed for a quality import 3 man.
"keep that 3rd import spot up their sleeve, can let Hire go mid-season if need be"
agreed, should be a good strategy considering the situation with Cooke last season
anon
Years ago
exactly.
Either injury insurance for Damo (as he is our only older vital player), or save the money and if only $100k left in the bank for a player, better to wait half a season and get a $200k / year player for what's left of the season rather than have a Cooke Jnr for whole season
Cram
Years ago
Solid squad. Obviously depends on how good that import SF is going to be, but one of Perth's advantages in recent years has been their continuity so bringing Hire back is a good move.
I also like trying to go with only 2 imports (even if it does change later in the season).
With only two imports the cats won't be able to score enough to make the top 4. Expect things to change mid season
Kay, Brandt, Jervis and Wagstaff is as good as any local front line in the line going around. Now they need a scoring swing man and it's all ready to go.
Blitz101
Years ago
They are just relying on him to do his calf then push him out the door to make way for import later
I'm hoping the starting 3 man is better than Tokoto.
2017/18 v 2018/19
Martin v Martin ( another year older and injury prone, one reason why starting season with two imports could be beneficial).
Cotton v Cotton ( an MVP encore maybe)
Tokoto v *Import ( need an upgrade here eg Prather.
L.Walker v Kay ( better with Kay)
Brandt v Brandt ( more of the same but better support with Jervis)
Kenny v Norton ( Norton an upgrade)
Steindl v Steindl ( hopefully he steps up unlike last season)
Hire v Hire ( no comment)
DKD v Vague ( different type of players but both provide limited minutes)
Wagstaff v Wagstaff ( another year older unfortunately but still valuable from the bench
Cooke v Jervis ( Jervis easily better IMO.
Norton, Kay, Jervis all better than last years players and Tokoto replacement should be too.
AD
Years ago
I don't think they would plan on "replacing" him or anyone else. But yes, having an import slot up their sleeve is good insurance if an LTI occurs.
Initially I was a little disappointed with this signing. I would have preferred they went the opposite way. But I can see it makes some sense.
If the 5-man cap means you're limited to minimum salary, then Hire is good value, and a known quantity rather than speculating on 3rd-string imports.
With so many new faces, and potentially a new SF, it makes sence to jeep more stability.
This means they'l be looking for a swingman with a good outside repertoire to counter their lack of outside shooters. I just hope Walker is as good as they think.
Prather's misso is from Perth, so all the more reason to return
Ummmm no ^^^ prather's partner is from Florida.
Maybe you are both correct and he has two women.
proud
Years ago
Why would they sign Hire, they already have a backup SF and his name is Clint Steindl !
That lineup as exciting as it is, is just too top heavy and we need our 4th import to be a shooting guard.
Wildcats really need to be proactive with their DPs as Damo and Norto can both miss games and we look very thin in the backcourt and very slow overall, especially with Adelaide getting faster, Cairns going to play more upbeat
Can we replace Hire in pre-season?
A
Years ago
Can't see where the points are going to come from...Will be a very low scoring team. Looks like coach will focus on half court offence, might be a very ugly season for the fans, they might start to stay away...
Zodiac
Years ago
I reckon they've probably re-signed Hire with the intention that if a good player shakes free from NBA training camps who likely would've missed out on the high paying gigs in Europe then they'll remove Hire from the playing roster whilst still keeping him around the team and sign a third import.
Hogwash
Years ago
I would expect Perth to make a change during the season when needed.
They didn't do anything last season. Kept Cooke.
they should have committed to releasing Cooke when Knight retired, but they didn't. It was then too late and they couldn't do anything about it, hence the keeping of the 3rd import available
I guess if he wasn't VC they wouldn't of side him
AD
Years ago
No, you don't sign somebody with the intention of sacking him part-way through the season.
It seems that the Cats are at least trying to comply with the 5-man cap. Which means that Wagstaff, Jervis, Steindl, Vague, and Hire must be on collectively less than ~$480k.
Wagstaff would actually be on reasonable money, although he did take a pay cut with his last contract. Jervis wouldn't be on the minimum. Maybe Steindl. Vague yes, but not much left for the 5th spot.
So they probably offered Hire close to the minimum.
The imports you can get for the same money aren't much chop.
With a Strong Aussie core, keeping an import slot as insurance could be a smart move. If they lose Damo, Norton, Brandt, Kay, or even Wagstaff to an LTI, being able to bring in a hired gun would help.
In all honesty, that was probably the mistake they made last year.
I had previously advocated that they keep Hire as a TP, but again, that was their mistake last season. They kept Steindl around, used their 3rd slot on Crooke, and when Knight went down they were stuck with elevating Steindl.
I agree that this roster is top heavy, especially the bench, but that's how the Cats roll. They won a championship with Hire as the backup SG, so this is actually an improvement.
Backsored
Years ago
Jervis & Steindl - 120k each
Wagstaff - 100k
Hire & Vague - 70k each
I think particularly arrogant to think they can compete with only two imports from game 1. I expect them to fall in a bit of a hole and needing the third import to just to try to keep the finals streak alive. The league is just too strong now to not have 2 or 3 top shelf scorers/players.
Isaac
Years ago
Why is it arrogant? Why do players need to be imports? Perhaps they used what might've been an import on securing Kay longterm? Do you seriously rate Cooke above Kay, for example?
In that case, he's less likely to run off overseas, and you remove one of the premium local players from the talent pool each NBL team draws from.
As listed further up, their rotation changes were all solid. Upgrades in each case. And then there's an import spot left.
They've had an excellent off-season IMO. In one passage, they created a succession plan for both Knight and Martin, the spine of a dynasty. And gutted a competing team in the process.
All I know is, that 2nd import better be a pure scorer, if not we're fucked.
Hogwash
Years ago
Anyone would take Jervis over Cooke so going with 2 imports isn't that big an issue.
Norton and Kay are obviously better than Kenny and Lucas Walker and DKD won't be missed.
I might be in the minority but I believe Steindl will be more productive this time round.
I hope you're right about Steindl, former ROY, played well in the pre season, but choked in the regular season big time. I did notice teams were very wary of him and he never really got easy shots. If he doesn't produce this year I really hope we don't sign him. Would've liked to have seen DKD get more minutes this past season, but from all reports Gleeson for some reason did not like him at all so hope he does well elsewhere. I've always wondered why we never tried to get Cody Ellis, has the connection with his old man and is a great size and shooter, a bit in the mold of Wagstaff. He also plays back in Perth in the off season. Has always baffled me.
Hhaha I'm sure both would be right re:Prather. He'd have side chicks and the mainstay. All imports do.
Cats have a very solid roster. I think it's clear that when injuries occur having the capacity to replace them with an import is advantageous. The reality is that any local talent left is usually left for a reason. A strong local core is still a key to competing, especially long term. Perth went a long ways towards competing today and tomorrow with Kay and Norton. Will there depth in the back court be tested, probably, will it lead to failure, it hasn't in the past when kenny held down the starting pg.
Hogwash
Years ago
The roster as it stands is good enough to make playoffs.
Likely rotation
Martin 20/Norton 15/Cotton 5
Cotton 30/Steindl 5/Norton 5
*Import 30/ Hire 5/ Steindl 5
Kay 25/ Wagstaff 10/Vague 5
Brandt20/Jervis 15/Kay 5.
Tbh i hope we don't really play Hire/Vague much this year. Imo some NBL coaches go way too deep with the bench for 40min games. Not uncommon (especially for the Wildcats) to see 10-11 players get some minutes in a game which frustrates me a bit.
Surely in a team of professional athletes only playing 1-2 games a week, you can spread those 5-8 minutes that guys like Hire get to better/key players.
"I've always wondered why we never tried to get Cody Ellis....."
Really? Here is a hint. He sucks. Just check his numbers in SBL if you need evidence
I've never heard that one! Source? Would be an amazing fit in theory.
"Imo some NBL coaches go way too deep with the bench for 40min games. Not uncommon (especially for the Wildcats) to see 10-11 players get some minutes in a game which frustrates me a bit.
Surely in a team of professional athletes only playing 1-2 games a week, you can spread those 5-8 minutes that guys like Hire get to better/key players."
Fatigue in basketball is more short term - the creatine phosphate system is the predominant energy source used, which can be both drained and regenerated in a matter or minutes - rather than accumulative. If a player is on the floor too long he loses his ability to make quick movements, which greatly reduces his effectiveness in basketball.
Having said that an 8-9 man rotation should suffice in both 40 and 48 minute games, but sometimes coaches want the change up and energy another player can provide.
"Having said that an 8-9 man rotation should suffice in both 40 and 48 minute games, but sometimes coaches want the change up and energy another player can provide."
Yeah i think a 9 man rotation should be suitable for 40min. I reckon the 10th and 11th man on an NBL team should really only be used in desperate situations for foul trouble/injury or when resting players later in the game.
I reckon Hogwash is pretty on the money with his rotation prediction, but I'd take the minutes handed to Hire/Vague and give Wagstaff an extra 5 and then the imports and Steindl an extra couple. I just hate how deep Gleeson goes with the bench sometimes lol.
AD
Years ago
I agree its a little weird having only two imports, but its not necessarily arrogant.
Without knowing all the exact numbers, and how it actually works in practice, there are Marquee provisions, the salary super tax, and the 5-man cap.
Plus there is also the requirement in Perth to balance the budget.
They have spent big to sign Cotton for three years. (How big I don't know, but you don't get an MVP on a 3yr deal without being generous.)
Securing the future in Kay & Norton would not have been cheap, and Martin, Wagstaff, and Brandt would all be on reasonable money. Even Jervis, who was on good coin at Brisbane, would not be on the minimum.
They're necessarily saying "see we're so good we don't need a 3rd import," as much as they are saying "any 3rd import we'd sign at this point would be a Derek Cooke wanabe, and unlikely to give us much value.
Keep in mind that a lot still hinges on the 2nd Import.
"I just hate how deep Gleeson goes with the bench sometimes lol."
I just hate Gleeson.
Perth only ever had one import during the Bevo era. Allowed them to bring in Galen Young when Paul Rogers went down in 2010.
Childress would be good in theory if he stayed healthy. Torched us in the finals. Can't see Wildcats going there though, they tend to stick to newcomers.
"The roster as it stands is good enough to make playoffs.
Likely rotation
Martin 20/Norton 15/Cotton 5
Cotton 30/Steindl 5/Norton 5
*Import 30/ Hire 5/ Steindl 5
Kay 25/ Wagstaff 10/Vague 5
Brandt20/Jervis 15/Kay 5."
I agree with this for the most part, but you might find Vague, and to a lesser extent Hire, will only play in blow-outs or when someone else is injured or in foul trouble. Therefore you could probably bump Martin up to 25 and Wagstaff will be playing more than 10.
You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.
Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.
An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 8:37 pm, Sat 23 Nov 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754
