I don't think there are any games this round where I could confidently tip a winner. The two most important games for mine are Townsville/Melbourne and Perth/Dandenong. Melbourne need to get that one to keep their season split alive, though I think it will be a tough ask given they're down a few players, coming off an overtime and having to travel to Townsville on the second leg of their double header.

I was very close to tipping Perth over Melbourne last weekend - which would've been embarrassing as no one in the tipping comp tipped them, but at the same time it would've been a massive win for me if they had've been able to hold on. I think Perth should get the job done against Dandenong, I was really impressed by them last weekend but to be honest they really need to get rolling to keep their season alive.

Agree with you about all the games that could realistically go either way.

Re. Perth ... I'm pleased that we got so close to Melbourne, but at the same time I recognise that the Boomers weren't at full strength so I'm unsure exactly how much positivity to read into the performance. If the Rangers weren't absolutely on fire last round I'd be more comfortable leaning Perth's way on that game. Will be an interesting matchup of Dandy's good backcourt defence vs the Sami & Court show.


Unrelated, I notice that Sportsbet have finally released their WNBL championship odds:

Melbourne Boomers 3.00
Townsville Fire 3.60
Sydney Uni Flames 5.50
Adelaide Lightning 8.50
Dandenong Rangers 10.00
UC Capitals 13.00
Perth Lynx 15.00
Bendigo Spirit 18.00

According to Boti, Aimee Clydesdale is fit to return to action this round. (Right as Planeta's PR application has been approved - what an amazing coincidence! :O )

Oh wow what a crazy happenstance.. *rolls eyes* But great to see that Clydesdale has recovered. Planeta certainly has been quite handy for them, but I'm not really a fan of these dodgy dealings.

Sydney or Adelaide probably best odds there. Booked have it about right.

I think the Sydney v Melbourne game is the match of the round. Hope they get the stream sorted for that

Re Championship odds: I feel Rangers are going to have a lot to say by season's end.

I'd announce that LiveStats are not working if it was news.

Haha, well I can't even get to wnbl.com.au atm

Boti was trolling the refs too earlier in the week, and it might have backfired with Bishop fouling out again.

Lightning led all game, coughed up the lead in the final minutes with Bishop gone, and grabbed it back thanks to Seekamp & Novosel. Quite the ending to that one.

Boomers will win the league unless Cambage gets injured. For me, the Fire aren't the same as they were in previous season.
Sydney missing Leilani big time and they do have WNBA quality but not enough to stop Melbourne.
The other clubs are outsiders and I don't consider them at all in the championship pedigree.

Hamblin is wasted on the bench for Adelaide. Should really be on another team that needs a big C. Bad decision to leave Perth.

Good old Boti, Adelaide have a 4-0 home record and he's whining that the Adelaide refs are somehow biased against the home side.

But none of the WNBL teams can blame the Lightning for the League's 'rule' that you can temporarily exceed the 2 import cap with an import replacement for one of your Australian players injured on international duty. After all, it was just pure luck that Clydesdale's recovery coincided with receipt of Planeta's residency approval.

I think Hamblin may have been on limited mins (hence coming off the bench) due to injuring her back last weekend against Bendigo. I'm fairly certain she had started every other game this season, though in saying that she probably would've been better off staying in Perth where they don't really have an abundance of bigs like Adelaide does.

Another game another live stats fail.. not even surprised.

Perth will win easily now they know how to win, and win well.

$15 for the Championship is way over, I am on that in a big way, because after this weekend Lynx will be chopped to $8

I think Hamblin's minutes were declining even before the injury, but I disagree that moving from Perth was a bad move. (Pretty sure that was a mutual separation, btw).
Perth doubled down on the small ball plan after struggling with the front court matchups in the semis vs Dandenong last season.

I think Ruth can be an effective player for the Lightning though, once they work out the right spacing & sets for her. Just her presence alone must make life easier for Bishop. She has a positive +/- in every game so that's a good sign.

Following up on the Boti whinge, I just had a look at Adelaide's foul numbers

Home games:
ADL 22 SYD 20
ADL 11 PER 17
ADL 21 BEN 28
ADL 14 CAN 21
-------------
ADL 68 OPP 86


Away games:
CAN 17 ADL 18


So Boti's favouritism claim seems pretty baseless

I suspect the main issue is that they never commit a foul, so all those numbers against Adelaide should be duck eggs.

Keep on wriggling.

I agree that a well-reffed game does not require the foul count to be even, just like a well-reffed season probably does not result in Liz Cambage's fouls against to equal her fouls on.

But Boti claiming that Adelaide refs intentionally favour the opposition, and using one (allegedly) incorrect decision as evidence of that, just reeks of the cray cray. His adoration for Bishop & Batkovic is lovely and all, but he's actually throwing her under the bus writing crap like that and then mixing her name & quotes up in it.
We all want fair games, but I don't think that attacking the integrity of particular refs is a constructive way forward.

As I just tweeted to him, I'm not the one claiming the SA refs are cheating the Lightning.

Here's what he wrote:

SA refs, in their attempt to show no home bias, instead go the other way and disadvantage Lightning.
That's hard to dispute too, considering local ref Nathan Wieland in the WNBL’s season-opening match between Adelaide and Sydney at Titanium Security Arena on the first call of the night - of the season! - was wrong.
A pass intended for Bishop was deflected out of court by Sydney import Asia Taylor, but Wieland confidently called "Sydney ball."
He rightly was over-ruled, which strongly suggests he was either completely wrong or did not know. If it was the latter, then clearly his automatic decision was to favour the visitors. If it was the former, well ...

Her fifth foul was another Grigoul special, as the captain was trying to avoid any contact but was called for some anyway. It's known as over-zealous officiating.

It could be argued that Bishop fouling out the last 2 games is because she is a bad defender playing major minutes.

As a general rule bad defender + fatigue = fouls

Boti loses all objectivity when it comes to Bishop & Batkovic. He has never hidden who his favourites are.
Those 2 also happen to be 2 of the sookiest players in the league.

I've said it before here ... probably in NBL threads rather than WNBL, but the point is exactly the same. Refs' jobs would be easier if they were actually treated with some level of respect on the court as opposed to the mocking, sarcasm, etc that they are expected to put up with.

Boti even said it himself:
"Officials are always quick to deny and dispute taking a mindset against a player, as if human nature doesn't apply to them. But you see it occur regularly."

So what is the solution for that? Robot refs?
No - not really practical?
Well then how about certain players stop giving refs reasons to put them in their 'bad books'

Boti might or might not be arguing about 'home cooking' or lack of it, though failure to pay three blatant grabs by the visitors as 'unsportsmanlike' in the closing 90 seconds last night [how I wish we still had the 'intentional' terminology] would suggest he could have a point.

My reading of his material on the officiating is that his basic point - and concern for the game - is the standard of officiating, which in Adelaide WNBL games at least is consistently poor and often appalling, with the situation not helped by apparently little or no effort being made to improve the situation through education or discipline of officials, education and fostering of future top-level officials, or change in procedures [like interstate exchange of officials as suggested by Bishop] to even marginally help address that by widening perspectives.

Debate here about 'home team bias' is definitely missing the point.

Can I suggest you take a step back and notice the forest [refereeing standards and the good of the game] and not just the tree of fouls for and against?

I am far from hung up on the tree of fouls for & against, just in case you are hung up on just one of my posts in this thread.

"Boti might or might not be arguing about 'home cooking' or lack of it"

There is no "might or might not" about it. It's there in black and white.

SA refs, in their attempt to show no home bias, instead go the other way and disadvantage Lightning.

He rightly was over-ruled, which strongly suggests he was either completely wrong or did not know. If it was the latter, then clearly his automatic decision was to favour the visitors. If it was the former, well ....

LOL, Boti just blocked me on twitter.
And here I thought it was a fairly civilised exchange.

Boti certainly likes a crusade doesn't he

No Courtney Williams for the Lynx against Rangers. That'll swing the match in favour to the Victorians, though it may give Sami license to do her thing.

Thanks Waves2Lynx, I had been looking out for it because she didn't move from her chair after the Boomers game with a shoulder injury (I'm guessing that's the reason?).

Yeah, AshT, article on their website said it was sustained in that match.

Such a shame about Williams, I was looking forward to seeing (via live stats - if it works haha) her go up against Palau and Steph Blicavs. iirc she landed fairly heavily on her side in the Melbourne game, I'd assume that's when the injury occurred. Hopefully she won't miss too much game time, they can't really afford to lose her for much longer.

Geez though the Lynx won't have any guards coming off the bench will they, it doesn't really seem like the appropriate game or time in their season to be giving significant minutes to their DP guards like Fejo. In saying that though Ciabattoni has been in really good form as of late, so I'm looking forward to seeing what she can do with those additional minutes. Surely there won't be very much bench time on the cards for Whitcomb, Kunek or Ciabattoni.

Jarry is also in doubt for Canberra after being concussed at training during the week - she missed their first game of the weekend as well. I'm fairly certain she had a few concussions when at the Boomers so I wouldn't be surprised if she did miss just for precautionary reasons.

Perth trying to rush paperwork for Alison Schwagmeyer to play tonight as IR for Williams. SBL MVP who's in the process of trying to be naturalised (the long way it seems, not the Lightning way).

No. You don't replace Courtney Williams with extra DP minutes at this point of the season if you can avoid it.
Last week during extended garbage time vs Bendigo, with zero heat left in the game, we still struggled to even get the ball past half court at times. They're not ready for prime time.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this American who plays in the local league and who has been with the Lynx anyway this season (and is on the team poster) will probably not be all that pissed off with getting some WNBL action while Williams is hurt, no. The concept of an injury replacement player is pretty standard I would have thought.

Lynx just confirmed that Schwagmeyer is playing tonight

Theyre wont be much cohesiveness within that Lynx team

Whitcomb can't just take on the 35 minutes (on top of her own 35 mins) which Williams would've played. When they only had one senior guard in Ciabattoni on the bench before Williams injury, it's a pretty big ask to get those inexperienced and younger DPs on when they're clearly not ready to be playing.

Really hope Williams' injury isn't serious, she was incredible to watch last weekend.

Good news - Sydney Uni Flames vs Melbourne Boomers is going to be live streamed on Fox Sports.
Tip-off in ~ 2 hours

LINK

Excellent news! Hopefully it will be a great contest

Stoked to watch Sydney-Melbourne, should be a good match.

Adelaide looking very dominant against the Spirit so far, as expected.

11-3 Sydney and Cambage is off the court for some reason. Got blocked before she was pulled.

Lightning choked since I said they were doing it easy but settled before HT and have an 8 point lead.

Canberra/Townsville still close early.

Who's the female commentator, Rachel somebody

Poor awareness then by the Boomers on the Hamson free throw, I assume Garrick was meant to be down there to box out but was already half way up the court so Hamson rebounded her miss and made the uncontested basket. Was very impressed with Conti's first few plays though, they were quite exciting to watch

Something like Jarrie / Jarree

Ta, I was trying to think of retired players.

Oh, but she'd be watching the Caps game?

Yeah I would have thought so too. Surprising.

Flames doing a great job of frustrating Liz so far.

Herrick! That makes more sense

Ruth finishes with 15 points, 17 boards & 3 blocks
Seems like that back isn't feeling too bad

Batkovic has completely turned the game around for Townsville.

Holy website errors batman.

Me, 1/2hr ago:

It's definitely looking like a Townsville vs Sydney Grand Final at this stage. I can't see Melbourne getting their unless O'Hea is fit and Cambage can fit around her teammates.

Batkovic 27/11/5. What a night out. Capitals got closer than score suggests but just outclassed in the end.

Hoops goes down, then breaks livestats. Sigh

Yeah I agree, tonight the Boomers looked quite messy - I thought after Ebzery went down the Boomers guards would take over the game but really they did nothing much offensively. Hopefully Ebzery won't be out for too long, I don't think Sydney would cope well in her absence.

Just when we thought the live stats would work.... we were wrong.

Perth up by 9.

Whitcomb 17p/10r/7a
v
Cummings 24p/3r/4a

Nice win Perth. Wasn't expecting them to do it without Williams but Whitcomb looks back on form and Kunek was shooting hot from 3. Almost a triple double from Sami but yikes, 7 turnovers.

Steph was great. Sami even greater.

I know the Rangers can be flaky at times, but even with that in mind I had no hesitation in changing my tip to them once I heard the Courtney news (she sounded confident of being back pretty quickly btw). Very happy to be wrong. Was a good contest from start to finish.

Thompson is just struggling - at both ends. No injury that I'm aware of. And Standish & Kunek are both playing pretty well.

Yeah same old story every game, the site crashes as does livestats. Surely it's not hard in this day and age to upgrade the servers or whatever these IT geeks do to allow more traffic on the website. Nor would it be that difficult to ensure live stats works - they can even get the live stats to work reliably for junior domestic leagues, so why not a national league?

On Thompson I feel her athletic traits compliment the style the Lynx are going for, but the way she plays doesn't as much. They seem to like quick bursts in rotations while from what I saw of her in Melbourne, she needs time to get into a shooting rhythm, otherwise those shots really aren't going to drop for her often. She also doesn't really strike me as a player who loves drawing contact/physicality, which IMO is something their team needs in all their bigs as they're so undersized. But as Luuuc said, it doesn't help that she's stuck behind Standish and Kunek with the Lynx seeming to prefer a Dowe/Burton combo at the 4/5 and Ciabattoni filling in at 3 coming off the bench rather than putting Thompson in. In saying that though I do think she needed to leave Melbourne, the way they recruited she probably wouldn't have received many if any minutes had she stayed.

Also on that game I'm a bit perplexed at the Rangers' final minute... I get trying to force the Lynx to the line, but not when Steph Blicavs gets fouled out with 45 seconds to go in doing that. It just seemed a bit counter productive to me, your leading scorer and one of realistically two players who could get them over the line being the one to give away the deliberate foul (and to foul out in doing so) was just plain dumb. Considering that was coming straight out of the timeout I was really shocked. Also 14 seconds to go and down by 8 it seems a bit drastic to keep those deliberate fouls coming. It could end up detrimental to their season split come the pointy end of the season.

LiveStats rarely had an issue before they changed it from last season. Plus, as I encouraged them to do, rather than trying to make it look funky, there was 10+ lines of Play by Play on my screen rather than just the half dozen now.

I remember Thompson along with Blicavs were scoring machines for team AIS, so it's a shame she hasn't kicked on.

I still have faith that Andy will find a role for her though. We're not a deep team so he pretty much needs to. But I don't expect her to be a big scorer with this team. If you're not hitting outside shots or a good slasher (or a Courtney Williams who can pretty much get a shot up at will) then you've not going to score much in our offence. It's going to be very rare that one of our front court players has a size advantage on anyone this season.

After last night is it time to ask if the Whitcomb/Williams mix is right?

There are both similar heavy usage % players.

The other question is if Williams while she generates good box score counting numbers and flashy, entertaining plays each game - if she actually has a positive effect of wins/losses?

Schwagmeyer pretty much played Williams's role - did some ball handling, tried to get into seams and create, put up plenty of shots (just 1 less than Sami), put a lot of effort into her defence, etc. So I don't think anything about last night's game backs the theory.

You can still put forward the theory of course. I disagree with it though. They're both high usage, yes. They're also both unselfish, more than hold their own as defenders despite their size, and they've never given me the feeling of "there aren't enough basketballs to go around". Whitcomb is noticeably more selective with shooting so far this season.
So I still think the front court is where Perth wins or loses games. Dandenong tried to exploit their size advantage, and did ok, but just ok. Meanwhile we had Kunek & Standish hitting long jumpers, and even created 11 points for Burton.
Rangers pretty much broke even with us in the front court last night IMO, and that's not usually going to cut it.

Sydney clinically picked us apart inside, and when Bendigo smashed us most of those good outside looks started with Griffin & Laney.

What aspect of Williams' game do you see as a negative?

Without a lot of vision its hard for me to make a call. Was just putting the question out there at this stage.

My concerns would be lack of free throw attempts and too much shooting in the dead zone (mid range) although those shots are going in at a good percentage so far.

I hope she does do things on the court that lead to wins as its great to have such an exciting player in the league.

The other side of that is Whitcomb not looking like herself in a lot of games this season. I wasn't sure if that was due to Williams looking for her own stuff too often or Whitcomb being worn down from the back to back seasons.

Fair enough if you're just basing it on the stats.
Sami has acknowledged her slowish start to the season, but looked very much like her usual self last night.

Regarding Courtney's offensive game, yes, it is extremely mid-range-based. Her 3 is not reliable, and being tiny means she doesn't get to the basket much, but she has one of the sweetest mid range jumpers in womens basketball. She can pull up & elevate in an instant, and shoot accurately, so "dead zone" does not apply to her.

Hate to say it but women's sport has leaps and bounds to improve and social issues like pay won’t imprive until teams can produce better than 27 and 24 points in a half

I think that should have said "out coached". Who said Guy Molley was a good coach?
He can lose a game for a team, not win one. Fancy extending a coach contract with a
losing record. Melbourne has got the coach they wanted.
Until they sack him they will never win the flag!!!!!!!!!!

There's no shame in losing in Townsville. Happens to everyone. O'Hea is a massive loss for Melbourne.

"Hate to say it but women's sport has leaps and bounds to improve and social issues like pay won't imprive until teams can produce better than 27 and 24 points in a half"

Boomers struggling now so it's a bit unfair to paint the league with their brush. Totals of 56 & 57 this round obviously aren't pretty though, can't argue with that. Blessed that my team had 66 at half time a week ago, and play a very watchable style.


I probably should have changed my tip to the Rangers when Ebzery went down. Anyone's depth would be tested by losing Tupaea and then Ebzery. Sydney doing pretty well under the circumstances but it feels to me like they're about to get overrun.

"Perth trying to rush paperwork for Alison Schwagmeyer to play tonight as IR for Williams. SBL MVP who's in the process of trying to be naturalised (the long way it seems, not the Lightning way)."

zConsidering Planeta played Big V in 2014 (and 2015)- one year after Whitcomb and got her PR last year, I don't see your point about your last comment.

For 3 quarters I was marvelling at how well drilled the Flames are. It's pretty much what kept them in that game, with Asia's heroics then pushing them to the lead.
Which they then choked away quite uncharacteristically in the 4th.
Rangers can count themselves lucky to escape with that win I reckon.

The Boomers definitely aren't having a good go at it at the moment, their shooting was something that really surprised me with Garrick 3/13 & 3/12 over the weekend and Cole going 0/8 against Sydney.

Tough to pick a POTW this week with Taylor, Batkovic and Whitcomb putting in some really great performances stats wise. I was really impressed with Taylor's games over the weekend, she's definitely exciting to watch so hopefully the Flames get to stream the rest of their home games this season and we get to keep watching her.

I agree the Rangers were lucky to come away with that one - I was really impressed by Sydney, but without Ebzery it was always going to be a very tough ask to get that win.

I reckon her team going 2-0 gives Batkovic the tie-breaker over Taylor for POTW.
Whitcomb an easy inclusion in the TOTW, with Bishop, Novosel & Steph Blicavs fighting over the other 2 spots.

I agree, I think Whitcomb's 8 turnovers knock her out of POTW - had she had a few less I'd have her near triple double as my POTW. I wouldn't be surprised if Kunek was also up there for TOTW with 21pts/4reb/3ast/4stl plus of course the win to the Lynx.

It was a pretty scrappy weekend judging by the final scores of the games - I wonder whether this is the fatigue starting to set in on the players, most of whom aren't used to such a packed season.

Well done Rangers it's been a long time since they've had a chance to beat the Flames. Flames fans would be justified in asking what it is that Boag and Moffatt contribute to the Flames. Whatever it is, it's probably tome for them to actually demonstrate it.

Rangers were indeed lucky to get that win, the refs did everything in their power to get them to loose, absolutely shocking calls ( or lack of) by the female ref today, so many travels by Taylor not called, over the back by Harmon totally ignored, flops by Taylor ignored, so yes they were lucky to get the win .

Definitely agree - how else would teams be able to do their scout / get video footage feedback from their away games. Players/their agents would also use that footage to float around to prospective clubs to sign for in the future.

We as fans obviously don't have access to any of it due to Fox Sports holding the rights & their strict requirements on the filming/commentary etc, but it definitely would be available to those who need it.

...seems crows captain , erin phillips wants to play commonwealth games , last nite on ninenews...

Link

Erin should look to play some basketball before then.

Not a fan if she makes the CG team, in all honesty.. She's had an incredible career in basketball, but IMO it's a bit rich to waltz in after having only played a handful of WNBA games since Rio and forgoing the WNBL to play AFLW. Would much rather the spot goes to someone younger who has committed to the WNBL and would be a chance for the worlds campaign.

I'm hoping they go with a similar team to the one at the Asia Cup, obviously omitting the Euro based players and replacing the likes of Hodges/Snell with some younger players.

I agree in general with the philosophy of looking to the future now, but I'd happily make an exception for Snelly after the way she was tossed aside by Joyce on the eve of Rio. I think she deserves a proper farewell in the green & gold.

Wilson's shooting percentage is not that great, good at rebounds, poor at defence too 1 demensional

Wilson's shooting percentage is not that great, good at rebounds, poor at defence too 1 demensional

Slow players so far;

Cumming
Ebzery
Bec Allen
Tablot

Allen and Talbot are athletic enough to guard multiple positions in the wnba which is a decent indication that they aren't slow.

Other players that would be considered 'slow' by your metrics
Lindsay Whalen
Seimone Augustus
Sue Bird
Maya Moore
Diana Taurasi

Perhaps the Opals should add Sally Pearson, Michelle Jenneke and Morgan Mitchell to the camp roster to ensure your speed requirements are met.

I wouldn't say Steph is quick, but she's strong, has good defensive instincts, and puts real effort into her D. As a result I'd say she's probably our best backcourt defender. Speed isn't everything.

There's someone here who for years has been naming small forwards as their Opals 2-guards. I don't get why they always want someone who can't reliably handle the ball and/or can't keep up with opposing guards at that position. It's a fun Opals thread tradition though.

Allen struggles to guard even one position in the WNBA unfortunately. I thought Talbot did a passable job, with her hustle factor partly compensating for her lack of quickness, but yes she ultimately found her minutes declining too.

Really though, we're talking about Opals basketball here, and comparing players with WNBA starters is a bit pointless because if that's the standard then our team will have a point guard, a centre, and no other players. Just maintaining a place on a WNBA roster is something to be applauded, and being constantly measured against the best is a great way of facilitating improvement, so well done to both of them.

Talbot's WNBA minutes only subsided come playoff time, obviously because the plan of attack was to go with experience but Brondello said herself they were still keen to use her - 14:47 in final playoff 2pt loss to LA. She actually had an impressive rookie year. Commentators often applauded her for the way she defended some excellent players plus other aspects of her game showed she belonged out there.

Currie and Turner (the highly credentialled 29yo) took over her starting spot but they were quite happy trusting Talbot with good minutes to the end of the regular season.

I've always enjoyed people on this forum criticising wnba performances as a negative for Opals selection and then pushing for players that won't ever be good enough to play in the wnba instead.

Not only Phoenix's commentating crew.