who is leaving from the womens centrals team

re: ABA Player Rumours (#48351)
Centrals are losing 7 juniors to north?

BabaLouie, 31/08/05

names of players

in the know, perhaps they need to look at this club, and model their future on it.

Its worked for sturt (modelling their stuff on dandy).

This just goes to show that they shouldn't have put all of their teams in Div 1.

When players continually lose each week they will move clubs. rather than players who are winning each week in div 2 moving to them.

If they can't get their S**t together then get out and let the rest of us get on with developing basktball.

from the site...

"Our Junior Domestic competition (played on Saturdays) provides for players from Under 8 to Under 18. This strong competition is the feeder for our representative, VBL and Big V teams. We are proud to have many ex-Broadmeadows juniors now competing at these higher levels. Our domestic competitions attract teams from the local area (Broadmeadows, Glenroy, Strathmore, Dallas, Gladstone Park, Westmeadows) as well as the more northern suburbs of Greenvale, Craigieburn and Roxburgh Park."

Concerned,

Players do not move clubs to play div 1. For every div 2 player that moves clubs to play div 1, probably 10 move for better coaching and better administration away from teams that are getting beaten week in week out.

Other clubs are actually expanding to the point where they have over 50 teqams in the Assocaition as well as a number of teams in there own competitions. This year both Sturt and Forestville will have probably over 60 teams all up.

I have said before that buying a senior mens team is not the answer for the club and I will say it again. Look at where the club is now compared to 2 years ago. No better.

Everybody from Centrals came on this site a told about how good it was that the senior men's team is winning. How they would get so many new players into the club because of it.

Not happening.

nito,

Same stuff has been said for the last 30 years. And will be said at the end of the next 5 years.

If they are able to go out a buy a Senior Womens coach, and a couple of players. Who is going to pay for it?

The every decreasing juniors?

That way in a coulpe of years they wont have ANY junior teams due to the cost!

nito,

It has been different every year for the 30 years. Same results. After every good ABA year things go back to where they were.

Maybe they can get the first NBA coach sacked. he will not need to coach.

Maybe they can find a player/coach who runs bingo on Sundy night to pay for their recruiting trips to the Sudan.

Won't matter because they will still have a bad experience and will contiune to increase the cost for juniors and therefore decrease the number of junior teams and thus potential income.

G-train,

What you are essentially saying is that those players unlucky enough to live in the centrals area, will have to pay money to move away from a club which would rather spend money on their senior program than the juniors. That they should accept sub-standard coaching and accept that they will never play high level basktball with any success.

That instead of continuing to play basketball they might as well leave the sport all together and move to football or netball.

Plus, you forge tthat basktball is an Olympic/international sport with minimal investment, while football is a semi-Natioanl sport that has massive amounts of money. You would be better off comparing horses and geese.

Football thinking is exactly what caused the problem in the first place. Rather than working hard.

G-Train, perhaps we could employ a rule where players in u16's or below must play for their 'area' team. Zone the city and ensure juniors are to play where they live.

Yeah anon #48463,

Lets really try to destroy junior basketball in this state.

how about the infamous $25 club fees for your first season, i think that practise is immoral. How many clubs are guilty of this?

back to the topic, Riverland Raiders had to pull out of the ABL due to a lack of a women's team.

What do centrals need to do to ensure this doesn't happen?

I was a softballer when i was younger and they have very strict rules about moving clubs. You have to put your case in writing, it goes through the Softball SA committee and in very rare circumstances usually resulting from a move from ones clubs zone to another are you able to switch clubs. No money was involved as far as i can recall, and it was just such a hassle to go through to move clubs most people didnt bother. This could be something that could be implemented rather than paying a huge fee.

i would rather management spend their time on getting programs out on time, than dealing with individual cases of gripes.

Great concept tho, but i don't think were ready for it.

its not a matter of them being dropped, but a matter of Centrals being able to field a womens teams. Should they not be able to field a team (as was the case with Riverland), then they will not be allowed to compete in just the mens.

centrals have not been a district club for 30 years so how can the discussion been going for that long.

history will show you at times centrals have been a lot stronger than they are at present.

As a player of the Centrals ABA women's team I am confident we will get a quality coach for the 2006 season that will be able to draw players. While I do think the subject of this forum is a valid one, and has crossed the minds of a lot of people, I think it's been blown out of proportion. Once a coach has been appointed things will settle. I'm sure there are other teams in the league that have yet to appoint a coach. Why doesn't everyone focus on their own team, instead of bagging Centrals like they always do? Unless you play for Forestville women or Woodville men, you have a lot of work to do yourselves. Yes we haven't won an ABA women's game for 5 years, yes we are a struggling club with our juniors  why does this have to be constantly pointed out? Do you think we don't know this? It's easy to sit back and say what needs to be done, but who is willing to step up to the challenge? And I find it amusing that Gawler is considered "country". Are you serious? That's like saying Noarlunga is considered country. Gawler isn't in the Barossa! And that's half the reason why it's hard to draw players, because Gawler has that "country" label attached to it. It's 45 minutes from the city  big deal.

Yogee, G-Train and others,

Sports are competitive. And taking away the competition for clubs is like saying that you are not there to win but to all sit around a camp fire and sing Kumbya.

If you and your clubs are looking to do that, fine. Enter into the local social comeptition and go for your life.

The rest of us are here to compete. Simple market theory shows that competition creates the best level of resource allocation into what is successful. While governemtn intervention (communism) creates market anomolies, and massive problems on all levels. The more intervention the larger the problem. our comeptition already causes problems, adding a restriction of movement would only increrase the division becasue some clubs would work harder, while other would work less hard. I will let you work out which is which.

Perhaps these clubs who are struggling should better look at what they are doing rather than trying to stop individuals from making decision about what is best for them.

And Yogee, making comment on something you have nothing to do with is showing ignorance at the highest level. Think about it before writing it..

#48636 - That is a wonderful dissertation on the advantages of capitalism over socialism. Not greatly helpful here, but all your Liberal Party friends would be so happy.

Rampant and uncontrolled market economies always lead to the 'survival of the fittest' at the expense of the rest. So yes, if you think it is in the best interests of basketball in SA that struggling clubs fold then you are right.

But even from a societal point of view we have many many safeguards or 'safety nets' to protect people who are at risk or at a disadvantage. Take for example, the ACCC, the welfare system and government funded education to name just a few.

Yogee and others are actually making some sensible suggestions to safeguard struggling clubs. And they are perfectly entitled to their opinion. The suggestions do work and have worked elsewhere.

I find it extremely poor that you would criticise someone who has openly admitted that they are not involved in junior basketball. Someone from the outside will often have a fresh and different perspective to add and different life experiences to draw on. Without that perspective, things can and will stagnate.

To say that 'zoning' is a form of communism (by which I assume you meant socialism) is not only absurd but very naive. Competition in Australia is highly regulated to make the plpaying field fair. So before you go telling people that they should butt out, you might want to do a bit of your own homework first.

Rite,

How many Olympioans has the SANFL produced in the last 25 years?

anon #48676

We all live in a socialist society. We are not talking about a pure competitive model, without any rules. Rather, pointing out that the greater the government control, the worse it will actually be for these weaker clubs. Economic rationalism is actually a Labour produced system bought into our consiousness by Paul Keating. But yes survival of the fitterst is IMO the only way we can help the lower clubs. Give them a reason to improve rather than a slow painful death. They have been getting worse for some time. It is only a matter of time until it becomes a reality. And in the mean time all basketball isa suffering.

If Centrals were to actually spend the $40K that they spend on their senior teams on their junior program they would not need to have rules in place to help them.

Because the rules would only decrease participation levels ion the sport. Due to the fact that they would have no incentive to get better.

Melbourne had a competitive structure for years. During that time Dandenong has gone from a fringe div 2 club to a powerhouse? They are from a low economic area and had a low level of coaching. Through hard work and commitment to a long term goal rather than a short term quick fix they have because what they are today. During this period, Victoria dominated Australian Junior National Championships.

Recently, the smaller clubs thought that they would vote through a 20 teams competition rather than the 12 team they were working in. Plus only allow 2 teams from each club in this comp. The result has been the worst period of results sinmce junior age championships. As well as no change in the size or standard in the smaller clubs.

Why? Becasue no matter how bad your development program if you have a half decent kid with a bit of natural ability, you can qualify for DIv 1.

Now those States, NSW, QLD and WA who all have competitive models have improved their overall results at National Championships and SA and Victorian are steadily going backwards, and unless we as the clubs commit to doing something about it, we will not have any more good kids coming through our junior ranks that will be good enough to end up in our National League teams.

ppl last time i cheked this was supposed 2 b about centrals abl women NOT there juniors im sik of readin about junior programs at centrals. and for the record obviously cantrals cant pull the good coaches needed 2 coach a div 1 or an abl team 4 dat matta so y would players that want 2 do well at bball stay there. if they had good coachs ppl would stay there bcos they would b developing there players therefore doing well so y punish players by keeping them at centrals where that cant forfill there potential (spell check) i no a few x cenral div 1 players that have left 2 play div 2 or 3 al other club doesnt this say somthin about the club. sorry dont mean 2 bag centrals but something need 2 be done and quickly

something need 2 be done and quickly with your written english!!
most of centrals abl women are juniors.

48859 - I think you must be from North or Norwood (only jokes). You're obviously not from Centrals!

Rite,

I am NOT looking for State Reps from every club as you appear to be. I am looking for the best State team, regardless of which clubs the reps play at - to get results at National Championships!!

And just how did our junior State footy team do this year?? Oh yeah, that's right....

Anon 48938 - How did our State Junior Basketball Teams do this year?? Zoning is done in Vic and WA for football as well and how did some of those State teams go this year? Vic, WA & SA have zoning in football and they are the only teams in Div 1 at a National level.

I am not looking for State Reps for every club, what I am pointing out is that has worked in another sporting code so maybe we could explore that option? The current system has created and will continue to develop the stronger clubs and what does that do for the weaker clubs.

What does the current system do for the weaker clubs?
NOTHING - the same as some of the weaker clubs put in!!

Forestville and Sturt are within 10 km of each other, yet both seem to be thriving - why? Is it possible that to remain competitive with their near-neighbours they have to "up the ante"? Forestville have steadily improved their standings every year through hard work, and having good people (coaches, volunteers, JCDs etc) there. They made themsevles a "stronger" club - weren't reliant on the system to provide their players, they went out and found them and developed them themselves.

Although complaining does seem to be an easier option....

went out and found them? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Anon #49176

Yes, both of these clubs run successful Aussie hoops programs which they recruit from as well as getting out into Mini - Ball.

Anon #48960

Have you forgeotten that WA, VIC and SA are the only states that actually play Aussie Rules at any real level. If you got to NSW or Qld you will need to go a long way to find a Football field with 4 posts in it.

Or that 1 school (Sacred Heart) has produced more AFL players Than any of the clubs. I think that this say something about how much work the clubs do. None. The school system doesn't have zones and they produce more players than the clubs.

So what we really have here is not 9 strong junior clubs. But rather, 9 clubs bought back to the lowest common denominator, that of the weaker clubs. Exactly what we are saying will happen in basketball if zoning was bought into play.

Zoning is pretty sensitive for a certain club central in Adelaide as most of their good players live outside of what would be considered their zone.(If you used similar zones as the sanfl) Oh so they would have to develop kids that live in their area. That would be a novel idea!

Fascinating....