I don't have an opinion on which stadiums have the best or worst umpires, I know others do and would be interested to see them post their comments in this thread.

I also would like to know what development programs are underway for junior umpires. I would sooner see an umpire pick up a junior for ball carrying, double dribble and chopping fouls etc, but time and time again I see inconsistencies between umpires and as a consequence mixed messages relayed to players.

I am not mad at the umpires, by no means. I just want to understand what's happening out there.

i think the quality of refereeing around SA are become incredibly poor

Anonymous,

I think you'll find most clubs feel they should be 'favoured' by the referees at their home stadium and all feel hard done by when they aren't. Majority of referees dont even ref at the home where they play/played juniors. Simple fact is BASA provides referees for their BASA stadiums. Absolutely nothing to do with the club, nor should a referee favour the team who BASA provides the stadium to. I think you'll find most refs really don't care who wins or loses a game and is naive to think they do.

what we need are the senior refs to occasionally spend time on lower grades and on court with apprentices - too much snobbery by senior refs in lower grade games - never see many of them.

I will ask this question. How many of you whinging about refs are an accredited ref yourself??

If you have said no to that first question, when was the last time you enquired about doing a referee's course, or even offered to ref a couple of games at your social comp?

If you answered no, or never to both, do you think you REALLY have a right to criticise the refs?

I referee'd for 5 years, only at social (I did a couple of district junior games), and have just retired within the last month due to injury and illness.

refs are like the players - good skilled ones rise to the top - beginners or poor performers will float from beginner to lower grade games.

A common form of understanding on the game needs to exist - we all see the world from different eyes - where it falls down is personal slander that occurs.

The ref is the offical - the coach coaches and the players play - it is important that people stick to their correct role playing during sport.

Accept the fact human error occurs - does every coach make the right move? does every player hit every shot? does every ref make the correct call?

I rest my case.

Officially, the explanation of the pay referees recieve is to cover costs of transportation etc. How much do you actually think refs get paid? People I've spoken to have been very shocked to realise how little it actually is.

there is clear manipulation of junior refs by adults or basketball names in Adelaide.

Certain behaviours are inherent to each stadium by core referees.

You can only hope that the habits cultured are positive ones for basketball.

I believe a junior ref - ie child - should not umpire any age groups older than themselves.

there is too much manipulation of a threatening nature to the junior refs. However - if you have an 11 yo level o ref doing an u16 game - they do not have the "life" experience or confidence to cope.

I say keep the 12 yo refs doing u10s and u12s.

if we had enough refs we could maitain better standards - ie only level 2s upwards to do Div 1 juniors etc.

More monitoring of junior referees needs to occur - players train twice a week - drive kms for a game - sometimes to be let down by the poor refeering.

it a ref is consitently poor it is critical that issue is addressed.

Referees should be regionalized and rostered through a pool of stadiums to avoid any bias allegations. However if any individual is prone to bias - no matter what you do they will keep that habit.

Fair enough - I just wanted tomake sure people were actually TRAINED when they came through to the junior district system - saw an intersting flyer up at MARS today - the local Church league is having a "referees get-together" before the finals to go over interpretations and rules and stuff like that - anything like that ever happen in the District comp?

The lack of quality in refereeing in SA has to do with a number of factors.

1) With the amount of abuse refs cop why would anyone want to ref? Refs get sick of coping abuse no matter what they do so they dont come back. The amount of referees in SA has severely decreased to the point where there is simply not enough referees to cater for the amount of games often resulting in solos and refs doing 4/5 games in one night. Also, having 14 year old kids doing an U20 Div 1 game.

2)Refs get paid VERY little, especially compared to other sports like football and netball.

3)Refereeing politics. What the is on the ball in regards to snobbery by MOST of the senior refs. In the case of a few, if they dont get anything out of helping younger referees they just wont. It's pretty much about who you suck up to as to how far you get in refereeing rather than actual talent.

Many referees quit because of the factors above. Some of them are very good referees but just dont want to put up with all the shit that comes with it when they get next to nothing out of it. And who replaces these referees? Young, unexperienced kids.

Libertine - from what I'm aware only happens in Panel meetings (e.g Level 2 Senior refs), nothing for Level 0's or 1's.

There is nothing for Level 0 refs at all.

I havent even had communication from the State Refs director for at least 2 (maybe 3 years), even though I have sent off emails on a regular basis asking to move on to Level 1, and get some District games.

Hopefully, I can recover from ym health and illness problems and come out of retirement, BUT, the abuse is one thing that I am not missing.

If I was interested in returning to refereeing (I reffed back when I was 15/16 at St Bernards before it got shut down the first time), with the view to reffing district, who do I approach? Is it worth it?

With the Club Guru program, I need to participate in at least 60 hours of 'officiating', or whatever it is.

The director of referees has just retired, they are currently trying to decide who and how to replace him. Ringing the Dome might be your best bet of being directed who to contact atm.

Is it worth it? Depends how much you like being abused :P Nah, It can be fun and rewarding. I think different people get different things out of reffing, depends what your reasons are for wanting to as to what you get out of it.

This is probably a really silly question but what is the club guru program?

there are regular panel training days - flyers / emails are sent out with the monthly rosters.

A lot of getting together and updates rest with the head referee for that stadium when the umpire is rostered on.

When you get to the higher grades of referees there is no "getting together" just for finals - you are expected to "get together" several times during the season. ie panel days.

One issue that is worth comment is that I feel it is not bias that a home team has - but a better "understanding" with their local or regular refs. The home teams often are being refereed by a regular group of umpires - who apply their interpretation of the rules - so they know what makes that particular referee "tick" - they find out what that ref will reward and penalize.

The initiative at the moment is to get the ABL refs involved with the juniors, there are currently a number of senior referees taking up UIC posts at stadiums on friday night/sat mornings.

I am at marion on Saturdays, getting the miniball refs through, tying to improve them so i can get quality referees through to friday nights.

They are trying to remove that culture of 'snobbery' by the senior refs.

Libertine, the best place for you to ring regarding officiating is the BASA referees director. It is Nathan Durant (with extra help) who is filling the post at the moment, dealing with all the referee rostering/enquires.

He is based at the Pasadena stadium, bring the office number there, best time is usually in the afternoons.

BASA need to look hard at who they choose to be the next state referee's director. They need to find somebody who has a tremendous work ethic and some new idea's as to how to improve the standard of referee's in this state. And tis person needs to take away all politics from the ref game, as I have heard from many ref's that this has for a long time beent he biggest problem.

Firstly they need to get the higher level referee's back into junior competitions. Have a look at the number of ABA and State coaches that still coach in the junior compeitition. All NBL/WNBL ref's should have to ref in ABA or they don't get a gig at the higher level. Same with ABA ref's needing to do Friday nights or they don't get ABA

Secondly they need to have weekly coaching sessions, do a half an hour before games start on Fridays and Saturdays, something small each week, then have the players coached on that for the following games. And make sure that the UIC does a good job of constructive critisim during the game, so that the parents can see something is being done. For Seniors have a Monday night training each week with a fitness and skills component.

Finally, pay the UIC more. Pay penuts and get monkeys. But make sure that they are coaching the ref's rather than trying to make more money by refing games, or just sitting in their office. They should be watching a game and speaking to the ref's at every quarter break and time out just like the coaches do with their players.

My 2 cents

southern, north and south refs are by far the worst refs in SA. apart from the fact the players and the refs know each other by name they are just blatantly bias. the whole reffing system sucks but without them we would have no games to play.

Perhaps what nall is saying Jirachi is that the he/she believes that the regular reffing at Morphett Vale, Marion, and Hillcrest is the worst.

I have had lots of people come up to me as UIC on Saturday morning at Marion to comment on the improvement in the refereeing standard.

Are people really telling me that refs at marion/hillcrest/morphett vale are biased?

I hear from "home" coaches at all stadiums, they prefer to play away as they feel they get a raw deal from the supposed home umpires.

There is a big effort on saturday mornings so we can get referees onto friday night games.

Of course, it wuld help if some of these people bagging us and take up some slack, do a refereeing course and experience what we go through to provide YOU with a game.

i still think that traditionally when i play at those venus that there is some really shifty reffs. i don't know if they are from those venus or like jirachi said they have to reff at the same venu for a whole season, but that doesn't change the fact that they are just plain bad reffs. i have reffed before and i know it is tuff but it isn't that tuff to be consistant and to keep your friendships private until after the game is finished. there is nothing worse than playing a team that is laughing with the reffs.

Do you know for a fact that these people are friends of the referee? Perhaps, there are some people that treat referees with some respect and can have a laugh with them? I suppose you'd rather play a team that is abusing the crap out of a referee.

i show a great deal of respect to the refs but never would i expect them to make jokes with me while the oppostion is taking a foul shot, let alone call me by a nick name. respect should go both the players and the refs way. these refs do not respect opposing teams

Opposing teams to who?

Just cuz refs call players by names doesn't mean they are friends with them. Why would you refer to someone as 'player' when you know their name. Perhaps if you made an effort to treat them like human beings you could be shown some respect too.

What does it matter if refs talk to players? If your feeling left out start up a convo with a ref someone. Perhaps the better relationship could give refs/players a better understanding of each other.

Refs are encouraged to make better relationships with coaches/players.

you have missed my point chump

Congratulations Phil and Aimee, Referees of the year at the Woollacot Dinner. Deserved winners.

Other referees in the comp - watch these two, and get your fitness up to scratch.

Poor decisions are made when mental fatigue kicks in, and this is noticeable around the league.

Your kidding yourselves referees if your not in peak fitness; wasting everyone's time.

the referees that i find the worst are the ones that are too stuck up to explain their decisions and talk to the players. These are the umpires that take over a game because they like the sound of their own voice. These are also the umpires that give out the most technical fouls (this is not a good statistic) The best umpires are the ones you don't remember/notice.

Harold - Jirachi will correct me on this, but I thought it was illegal for players to actually question a refs decision and ask about the interpretation - techincally, anyhow, according to zero tolerance.

Well I play seniors and in my opinion the best umpires in the league are the ones that are willing to talk to you on the same level. Even if they are wrong if they can give you version of what they think happened at least you know they are not pulling the calls out of thin air. I would rate Wellborne as the best along with probably Wayne

I think without doubt thats Nathan Durant is the best referee in SA. Watch him ref, you dont see any coaches having a go at him even Ninnis. Heres one ref that still knows how to play and ref the game.

I was a referee who started out at out at miniball level and was willing to move on to higher stages. Even at one stage had aspirations to make it to WNBL level.
As the years went by, i umpired district regularly on saturday mornings and sometimes on friday nights depending on when my game was.
Yet, it was the coaches and parents who stopped my career short, after being both mentally (and physically, yes true) abused. it was was not worth $6.50, $7.00 that i was being paid to be there.
I am still refereeing social and stil i get abused, but enjoy it mostly at the end of the day. I also play district, both seniors and junior div 1 level.
Just be mindful that umpires are there for ur benefit and not there own. Be grateful that u have someone controlling ur game. I would love to see some of the loud mouthed people umpire their own game if umpires decided to strike ;)

Rookie, great post.

"What inspires you?"
"All the haters and there are so many of them out there" - Karl Malone

Unless you have umpired and suceeded at it then dont criticise those that have succeeded!

I know this is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion but thats just mine.

Rookie I hope you get back into it. You obviously play a bit and we need more umpires like you.

One of the things that always irk me when I ref is players who think we know naff all, and are there for the money.

Not being the smallest guy around, and therefore my speed isnt up there with NBL or even ABA level, I have also learned how to position myself to ensure I can still see any contact.

I am sure any ref will tell you (I know I have been constantly told when running with refs who actually take the time to help out lower grade refs) that position is everything. If you cant get back to the base line on elad, make sire you get to a position to see any contact.

I really do miss the reffing...hope I can get back to it soon...especially the u12/u14 kids I used to ref.

Thankyou incognito, i mighy one day when the basketball situation here in SA is correctly organised and not the circus that it is.
I am currently studying for a degree in Sport and Recreation (Administration and Management) so watch people cuz in a few yrs it will be revamped!
oh and yogee give pasadena a call, we would love refs who wanna have a go, start at social level and work u r way back in it.

hi all, first time here, this caught my attention, had to give my opinion. I am a coach at a small districts club, and have found the umpiring in alot of the stadiums really bad. i dont really want to pick on 1 particular place, but my team shudders at the thought of going to pasadena and port adelaide. i have very little good to say about MOST refs there, we find most of them biased and inconsistent. before you all start having a go at me, i have started umpiring social and hope soon to do junior basa games, i also play socially. my big concern is kids umpiring their own age group/division or club. your mentality level should be higher than those you umpire eg.dont be 14 umpiring u14. to be really truthful, i'm really sick of the umpiring here, its disheartening for everyone. best place we have been umpired was at starplex by a guy named wayne. well done. well, thats my opinion anyway.!

If you're talking ABL we get rosted to games, the location isn't a consideration.

As for Juniors, you have core referees who only referee at that stadium but also Panel referees who are rostered from stadium to stadium meeting the needs of the Division 1 games.

As a young player I received a lot of advise from the refs on what I was doing wrong and why I was getting fouls and the like. The players had more contact with refs and because of this more respect. I know things have changed and not always for the best. Zero tolerance. Players of today have bought some of this upon them selves as their behaviour in questioning all bad (in their opinion) calls gets on refs nerves. Play the game fair and cop it sweet, it all evens out in the end.