Just to be clear, you appreciate the sentiment behind the appreciation tops but you don't appreciate the design of the appreciation tops?

Maybe next home game you can bring your own appreciation top in appreciation of what you do and don't appreciate about the appreciation tops.

I love that they're showing respect to the Defence Force, but surely they could've done a better design. It's an ugly jersey, but still a great idea to show our defence force some respect.

I actually like them. Dunno if I will buy one though, I've already spent a small fortune on merch this year.

KET you a true fuck wit. I can appreciate a sentiment without liking the design. Maybe I should wear my uniform to show my appreciation of the wildcats support for the forces...perhaps you can bring your laptop.

I think they're okay but I wouldn't bother to buy one. I do like that teams are starting to make more alternate jerseys though

Their dedication to jersey ugliness the last couple of years is to be commended.

Not really sure I can get behind this whole American "yay war!" thing though.

It's the small things that are really bugging me with the design (apart from Red cams). The chevrons indicating rank on the shorts and back are uneven and the 'wildcats' patch, which I guess is meant to signify the service is on the wrong side (should be on the left).
The cats say they were approved by the ADF, whoever they spoke with should have known

Firstly, I think the Defence Appreciation is great. It's very far from "yay war." Listen on game night to where these people have been deployed, it is mostly peace-keeping and humanitarian missions.

As for the uniforms, they're not bad.
I am a bit over the whole merchandising aspect, but at the end of the day nobody is forcing me to buy anything.

TimberBall, having a bit of a bad day are we?

I'm sure others are more appreciative of word play and tongue twisters.

Nonetheless, i'll decline your offer to go to a Perth match, i'm a little more interested in watching a team that wins... ;)

Firstly, I think the Defence Appreciation is great. It's very far from "yay war."

I agree, I don't think it sends that kind of message. However, there is that American patriotism and glorification sentiment that doesn't bode well in Australia. It's a rather fine line.

A singlet like that in a one-off match won't offend, but it's maybe not necessarily as agreeable as people naturally think.

Many war veterans find it hard to support the ANZAC Day stuff we do. While it is a well intended recognition of heroic actions and the importance to this country, for many involved in the military and war it is the last thing they want.

A few years ago, Australian soldiers made the point they want to be supported in what they do, but they don't want to be treated differently to the public or be recognised in the way they are. Part of that stems from the fact it's an ugly job, it's a job that shouldn't have to be done but has needed to be done on occasion throughout history. The kind of recognition we see in the US and sometimes in Australia, it glosses over the horrors of war. It's not something people even in the military want to associate themselves with - despite being immersed within it. There really isn't much to be patriotic about when it comes to war, and those who have been apart of it may rightly feel that they don't want to be caught up in the recognition or glorification side of things.

We should start a kickstarter to replace Healthway as the Wildcats major sponsor so they can finally ditch the Alcohol Think again banner!

A singlet like that in a one-off match won't offend, but it's maybe not necessarily as agreeable as people naturally think.

They've also started doing the NBA schtick of getting a member of the military out to centre court at every game and 'honoring' them. I think we're one of only a couple of clubs to retain the national anthem, too. So it's not just this jersey in isolation.

To be classed as honouring the ADF profits for the jersey sales have to go to Legacy or this is purely a marketing ploy.

Well said KET. Coming from a family of Vets, I can say that no matter how difficult it can be, they do acknowledge the show of appreciation by the nation during ANZAC and Remembrance Day. What some of them can't accept is the politicizing and the hijacking of their sacrifice for the purpose of intolerance or discrimination as well as for commercialization.

ADF appreciation may be different to Vets appreciation, particularly those that are done in memories of Vets that have performed the ultimate sacrifice. However, the notion that a person or entity seeks to benefit commercially would not sit well unless it is intended for charity specifically aimed at ADF or Vets and their families.

I don't see any information with regards to the website store that proceeds are intended for charity.

Oh FFS, stop talking shit and outright lying.

The Cats have been doing the ADF appreciation for a couple of years now. Yes they "honour" serving members. It's not glorifying war or any other rubbish.

As for the commercial aspects, it is very clearly stated that this is a game night promotion with ADF Recruiting. Just as they do with many other entities. So yes, shock/ horror, the ADF has to actively recruit and yes they spend money on it. Somebody has obviously decided this is a mutually beneficial arrangement. Normally I would imagine that an entity pays $X for the game-night package. It's possible the ADF are paying slightly less, due to the perceived benefits of cross-promotion and merchandising. Doesn't really matter, as I said the ADF pays for advertising like any other business.

Dazz, perhaps you should talk to vets and currently serving soldiers - and it wouldn't hurt to gain an understanding of Australian history in respect to conflict.

You can believe what you like, but your opinion doesn't really matter, it's theirs that do.

People complaining about glorifying war don't live in reality. War is a necessary and unpleasant part of human existence that will be with us until humanity finally ends. As long as there are people with different world views, and for as long as there are only a finite amount of resources on this planet, there will be war. War is a necessity when the ongoing prosperity of a nation or group is threatened. There have been numerous times when the Australian way of life and the Australian people, or more broadly, the westernized way of life, has come under attack and we've needed brave men to stand between us and impending annihilation. If you think we live in a post-war society, and that we should stop commending men who fight for us, you're wrong. The only thing preventing a world war right now is the fact that all the major players have nuclear weapons pointed at each other waiting to go off at a moment's notice.

So, "Yay war". I think the Perth Wildcats should be applauded for their use of the national anthem and the ADF jerseys. Shows of appreciation like this should be supported and people who live in the real world know why

That has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of glorification.

And you missed a global economy where all major powers are interwined. That's the deterrance to full scale war.

"The only thing preventing a world war right now is the fact that all the major players have nuclear weapons pointed at each other waiting to go off at a moment's notice."

No.

"And you missed a global economy where all major powers are interwined. That's the deterrance to full scale war."

Yes.

I also completely missed the point of this thread until about 3 posts in. Defence appreciation? Damien Martin's good but he doesn't deserve a shirt for it.

Ok...that got out of hand.

Dazz, I usually don't mind your thoughts but your not really backable here. As a Cats member and active serving member of the ADF I have an issue with them using the 'Defence appreciation night' to make money for themselves and advertise for Defence reruiting.
Would you have an issue with them if they brought out a Smith Chips jersey or a Holden jersey next week? They are covering themselves in ADF 'colours' to make money but giving nothing back to the men and woman who wore/wear it with pride.

Ket, WTF are you talking about?

Firstly, lets get past the fact that this thread is actually about the Cats' playing singlets.
There are two aspects that involve the Cats.
One, they have a "ADF Appreciation" segment at every home game, where they honour serving members of the ADF. Not how these members are selected, but I imagine its a matter of agreeing to be nominated by their superiors. If you consider this to be in any way "glorifying war," then you're a few snags short.

The other, and what this night is actually about, is ADF recruitment. If you "object" to the ADF recruiting, well what can I say? They advertise on TV, at the movies, online, a the Royal Show, and have done for as along as I can remember.

Trust me, they wouldn't volenteer. I am yet to meet a serving defence member who wants to stand in front of 12,000 people and salute. Defence recruiting and the various city of Perth units would send 1 person per game.

Yes it is Advertising but they are using the ADF as a selling point. Not showing much appreciation by using the uniform like the Hotels Combined Bear, a mascot to make money.

At the very very least they should have Legacy tin shakers at every Gate

They look fine to me?

Wow, names & numbers on the back that are easy to read. What a concept.

Dazz, I can't really help you if you're not grasping what the others here are.

I'm not saying Perth shouldn't be honouring the ADF or they're trying to glorify war - I was actually just adding to Kobe's point as a side note.

I particularly don't believe the way US honours its military would go down well here. We have different histories, different culture and different mentality.

The important point which you very clearly lost in your brash replies is that while a lot of this may be well intended, it may not be as universally agreeable to the very people and institutions you're trying to honour - including both active military personnel and vets.

It's not just "we're honouring the ADF, so we're doing good" - there are complexities which are obviously tough to understand and sometimes lost on people. Which is why it's important to not be brash.

Some, or many might appreciate it - and that's great, others might find it commercialising - that's fair, others might find it politicising - that's also fair. Then there's those who follow the very Australian nature of finding it awkward to classed above others, and of course there's the under-the-radar Australians who would rather be left to their own.

There are also those (vets) who feel that the public have lost sight and fundamentally don't get it. Many Australians in the military and particularly battle hardened have a mentality that it's not about them, it's about the 'crime against humanity' which they would be acutely awareof from experience. To them, focusing on Australian military is losing focus of the main point: horrors occurred. Whether it's the victims, the circumstances and darkness, the political involvement, the youth misled by King & Country (and the glorification). Whatever their experience - and it's different for everyone - this isn't an uncommon mentality.

Which makes my point, honouring can be a great idea and many may like it, but always approach with the caution knowing there are so many different people with different experiences who have fought for Australia - and those who aren't fond of the honouring methods actually have very good reasons to do so. The most disrespectful thing anyone can do is approach this as if it's not complex because simplifying it is like simplifying their experiences.

Point made: honouring - well intended, sure, perhaps even a good idea if done with care, but universally agreeable as the public thinks? Perhaps not.

Great post KET

KET, Again, WTF???
My point to you is that you are getting way, WAY off topic.
I'm sure your posts are well-meaning, and you feel passionate about those issues, but its got nothing to do with the topics at hand.
You're trying to put me in bad light because I won't engage you on those topics, but my point is simply that you're off topic. If you want to start a thread talking about those issues, go for it. Although I'm not sure this forum is the best place for it, you may actually find we're in agreement on some issues.

KET is talking about the things done to honor the ADF, in a thread about something the Wildcats have done to honor the ADF.

How much more on-topic could it be?

Dazz, I usually don't mind your thoughts but your not really backable here. As a Cats member and active serving member of the ADF I have an issue with them using the 'Defence appreciation night' to make money for themselves and advertise for Defence reruiting.
Would you have an issue with them if they brought out a Smith Chips jersey or a Holden jersey next week? They are covering themselves in ADF 'colours' to make money but giving nothing back to the men and woman who wore/wear it with pride.

Sorry, didn't see this post earlier

Trust me, they wouldn't volenteer. I am yet to meet a serving defence member who wants to stand in front of 12,000 people and salute. Defence recruiting and the various city of Perth units would send 1 person per game.

Yes it is Advertising but they are using the ADF as a selling point. Not showing much appreciation by using the uniform like the Hotels Combined Bear, a mascot to make money.

At the very very least they should have Legacy tin shakers at every Gate

I appreciate your point of view, and I THINK I understand where you are coming from.

As far as the Wildcats themselves are concerned, they were once for a few seasons known as the "Perth Coke Wildcats" and even had a Silver "Diet Coke" clash strip. So whilst I hate Holden, I wouldn't care if they did something similar.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems what you're objecting to is commercial exploitation of the ADF, and of people's desire to "support" the ADF. Whilst having no regard to the feelings of those actually in the ADF, and furthermore that manipulating that support leads to jingoism and an unhealthily unrealistic attitude towards the ADF and our Vets.

It's a sensitive area, and I can understand why some would see it that way.

I'm not going to pretend that I have great knowledge in this area, but I'll give you some background to my perspective. My Dad served in the RAAF. He resigned when it would have meant moving us across the country yet again. My brothers were lucky to miss the draft, I was too young, but I have a few friends who served including one who served in VN. My son-in-law is in the RAN, and its tough on my daughter.
In regards to VN, I think our greatest shame is not that Australia was there, but how we treated our Vets afterwards. (I also have a friend whose family fled Saigon after the fall.)

I guess I can understand that members of the ADF might feel exploited being trotted out like a mascot on game night? Perhaps indeed this is a decision made by their superiors and resented by the rank & file. But perhaps their perspective is a little narrow?
At the moment, most of Australia loves the ADF. That means that no politician, on either side, can get away with disrespecting them too badly.
Sure, those average Australians have no real clue, and their support may well be based on jingoism, but that's the reality of politics. "Democratic" support for anything is usually based on lazy, ill-informed, self-interest. So yeah, people probably "support" the ADF for all the wrong reasons, but isn't that still better than having them hate you for all the wrong reasons?

What I'm saying, is that having the serviceperson there on game-night is not about making them feel good, its about making those 12,000 spectators feel good about the ADF.

As to the Cats' uniforms, its a "generic" Red & Black homage to camouflage. You can buy far worse things at K-Mart. I honestly don't really see those playing strips as being a critical issue on their own. They are a small part of the whole cross-promotion night.

Like it or not, recruitment advertising has been going on since Adam was a boy. It's an interesting historical study to look at some of the posters and ads that were sued to recruit the 1st & 2nd AIF.

Does the current generation of advertising help recruitment? Is it also about maintaining public support?
Either way it happens. Is the ADFR paying the Wildcats for advertising any worse than paying Channel 9? Or paying for cinema ads when you go to watch Star Trek?

Having said all that, I think the Cats should hear your point of view, particularly your suggestion for having Legacy collections.

I have messaged them both on Facebook and also via email regarding Legacy donations and have received no response. Disappointing. But not as disappointing as defence recruiting (DFR) not insisting on it. Over the last few years DFR has been heading towards being a civilian run for profit recruiting agency no different to Programmed or anotger mine recruiting agency (hence the marked increase in TV ads).

I don't want to get into the public perception/how ADF members feel argument brought up by KET, even though his thoughts are valid, believe it or not all military members have their own personalities an therefore all feel differently about the 'recognition', I personally feel overwhelming pride marching down At George's Tce or through the Sydney CBD and seeing the public applaud.