History is there for the taking Boomers! You have done everything required to get a desirable draw through to the medals. Bring it home!

Revenge Time

Let's not forget that Lithuania are a powerhouse and Serbia and Croatia are very good basketball teams.

The opportunity is there for the Boomers, but they are going to have to play incredibly well, better than they did in pool play.

Is it true The Lits tanked so they could play us?

Not at all, they just happened to have a really bad patch of form that ensured Spain and the USA were on the same side of the draw and Lithuania was on the other.

Lithuania is an interesting proposition.

On paper, Aus has better names. Eg: Motum (and Randle) played on Zalgiris last season with 3 of Lithuania's starters, and Motum was one of Zalgiris’ best players (going off stats). Motum can’t even get a run for Australia.

But Lithuania is a proud basketball nation with a history of becoming greater than the sum of their parts. In fact, they have virtually the same group who made the Eurobasket 2015 final, going down to Spain after dispatching Italy in the QF (they’re good, lost to Croatia in OT in the final after beating Croatia in the pool game in the Olympic qualifying tourney, have Bellinelli and Gallinari) and beat Serbia in the Semi.

So glad were not playing Spain!

"On paper, Aus has better names"

From an Australian point of view perhaps, but from an international perspective Lithuania has just as many quality players as us and just as much experience as a team.

They're ahead with their experience winning big games, but apart from that it's two very evenly-matched teams. We need to embrace the moment and play the aggressive style that's got us here.

France V Spain should be a cracker of a quarter final.

I think my preferred opponent in the quarters would have been Argentina but we are definitely capable of beating Lithuania. Hopefully now some tired legs on their team. The boomers have had plenty of rest so in that area we are at an advantage.

Go Boomers!

Paul, by international I assume you mean European and international competition?

If so, I raise you Patty Mills and his excellent record in Boomers colours, and I raise you David Andersen- in his 4th Olympics and with 3 Euroleague titles to his name.

Don't you think that, given their game styles, pretty much the whole Aussie team would be capable Euroleague players?

Ingles for example was a quality Euroleague player before entering NBA. Motum I've already mentioned. Broekhoff was one of the best outside shooters in the Euroleague last season and his team made the semi finals. Patty, Delly and Bogut have shown in Boomers colours their merits in this style of play.

I dream that we get by Lithuania easily, Serbia has a slug-fest against Croatia and neither recovers enough to bother us, Argentina batters the US and then Spain takes them down, and we beat up a tired Spain.

LV, I'm not talking about club basketball like the Euroleague (where Ingles was a bench player, often little used), I'm talking about international basketball where they are proven as individuals and as a team.

The core of this Lithuanian team has finished third and fourth at the past two WCs and second at the past two Eurobaskets. They've proven their quality at this level of basketball.

As I said, for someone sitting in Australia I can see why you'd think we have better names, but international fans around the world know who their guys are and what they've done.

The good news is the Boomers have never ever played like this year's team, so we're a huge chance of getting this one if we keep playing the team basketball we have been.

I am not sure about the Spain game but I don't buy that Lithuania tanked tonight.

Kalnietis (Lithuania's PG) put up amazing numbers vs Croatia. I assume that Mills/Lisch/Martin will be guarding him given Lithuania's impressive size at the wing positions.

Hopefully our P&R defense is up to scratch on the day.

Basketball Australia Retweeted
NBLfacts ‏@nblfacts 47m47 minutes ago
Boomers vs Lithuania Olympic history:
1992: L by 11
1996: L by 6 for bronze
2000: L by 18 for bronze
2004: L by 15
2008: Won by 31
#Rio2016

More than a little bit of history between the sides at the Olympics.

Paul, Ingles' last season in the Euroleague he averaged 25 minutes a game. 7.3 points, 3.4 rebounds, 3.5 assists and his team won the Euroleague title.

Yes- fair point. Lithuania has the results on the board in international play. Australia doesn’t. But- with Bogut, Delly and Patty playing the way they did in our first 3 games, and knowing what those guys have achieved in high pressure NBA finals games, I’m feeling quietly confident.

Now look at his actual season, not his end-of-year stats, and tell me how big a part he played in that Euroleague title.

I'm happy with that scenario hoopie.

He played

- 7 minutes in the final,

- 15 minutes in the semi.

- In the quarter finals he averaged 17 minutes a game over the 4 games.

So across 6 games in the quarters, semi and championship game, he played 15 minutes a game. In a 40 minute game, that makes him a major part of the rotation...no?

Besides, I take your point about Lithuania having points on the board *as a team*, that's very much valid and that’s why this will probably be a 50/50 game with the bookies.

My point was just that this Aussie team has some seriously credentialed invididuals. Mills has a great international and NBA record. Delly is averaging about 23 assists a game this Olympics (or something like that) and his body of work with Cleveland shows he’s a team first player who will thrive in FIBA ball so it’s no surprise how well he’s going, Bogut has been injured a lot of the time but when healthy has been a force in international play and one of the top 10 NBA Centres over the past decade. Baynes has also done some great work in Boomers colours and in the NBA. Andersen, Ingles, Broekhoff, Motum have all done work for the Boomers and have solid European club basketball credentials along with some NBA experience for Ingles and Andersen.

Lithuania has the far better team experience together, Aussies seem to have better individual players- that’s just my point. I agree with you that team experience is just as important though!

Things I really like so far this Olympics:

1. We have almost all of our best players and NBA players
2. The team ethos is win at all costs, no matter who we play
3. We are not happy with an honorable loss, we want to win and expect to win

Bring on whoever, it's finals time and no game should be an easy game!

Boomers should be favourites for this one:
Sportsbet has Australia @ $18 for the Gold (equal with Spain)and Lithuania @ $51
Without the USA...Australia are favourites at $2.88 then Serbia @ $3.30 and Lithuania @ $4.50

I do hope we can play three more games, because no matter what they are going to be crackers!

I also hope that BA and our media here start to get on board, this is a huge opportunity for the sport in general to gain some ground on soccer, rugby and football, not forgetting to mention netball and cricket...

Obviously I am also predicting the Opals to continue winning as well...

LV, well off topic now, sorry about that. I would say he was a solid bench player ala a Rhys Carter in the NBL, who I wouldn't say was a quality NBL player. In previous years Ingles sat much more than he played.

Re this:

"Lithuania has the far better team experience together, Aussies seem to have better individual players- that's just my point."

I see what you're saying, but I'm saying at international level that's not the case. I think it's two evenly-matched teams but hopefully it's our time this year!

I don't see why they'd tank to Spain and Croatia when first would have guaranteed them the spot and they could have stamped it in by winning either?

OK enough on the Joe Ingles tangent... :-)

Just one last comment- he played 19.1 minutes in 22 Euroleague games in 2013, and 24.8 minutes in 24 games in 2014!

From here:

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/gamecent/p/pid/6036506/playerview.html

Just getting back to my comment about the Boomers having better names, I did mostly mean at club level. But the Aussie team is quite young, with all but Bogut, Andersen, Lisch and Martin under 30 and plenty of players who are 25 or under (Delly, Motum, Broekhoff, Bairstow). You only get limited opportunities to showcase yourself at international level, and with Bogut, injuries have limited his ability to do so.

When you look at this Boomers team and their experience in club basketball- it's extremely impressive.

- Between the Boomers starting 5 and 6th man, there’s 4 NBA championships, 4 Euroleague championships and hundreds of games of NBA playoffs experience.

- Australia’s entire starting 5 all averaged at least 15 minutes a game in the NBA last year, and 6th man Andersen was an all Star in France’s top league. Bogut started 66 NBA games, Delly started 14 and Patty started 3- and they were on the 3 top teams in the NBA last year!

Outside the top 6:

- Broekhoff played on the team that finished 3rd in last year’s Euroleague. In the final 3 games of the season- the deciding quarter final game, the losing semi final and the winning 3rd place game- he averaged 15 points in 36.5 minutes a game. Including 21 points in the 3rd place game.

- Motum averaged 10 points and 20 minutes a game in the Euroleague. Cameron Bairstow was on an NBA roster, getting court time in 18 games. Lisch won the NBL MVP for the 2nd time, in an ever improving NBL. Martin led the Wildcats to their 109th consecutive NBL playoffs appearance and 2nd title in 3 years, and Goulding led United to the minor premiership after a season in Spain’s top division the year before.

There’s definitely the talent there, and now things seem to be clicking as these guys play together on the international stage. Can they keep it up vs a disciplined team who has achieved sustained success in international competition over the past few years? That is the big question. Go Boomers :-)

What are the odds for Australia to medal? I put a pineapple down a month ago at 9:1.

1/4 final is a 50/50 game.
Semi final is a 50/50 game.
If relevant the bronze medal game will probably be a 50/50 game. (On reflection we probably have a smaller chance than that as it will likely be against the winner of Spain/France, who then likely lose to the USA in the other semi)

Australia medals if they go WW or WLW.

If they are all 50/50 games then Australia has a 25% chance of going WW, and a 12.5% chance of going WLW.

So approximately 37.5%. or (3:5 if you prefer odds)

Curtley. Australia at $2 now for a medal. Might be worth cashing out!

Ridiculous odds as that is what we should be just for the quarter final.

Next best is Spain at $2.10.

Interesting to see what we are on the international market. I doubt we are favourites behind the USA overseas.

"Just getting back to my comment about the Boomers having better names, I did mostly mean at club level."

I know, that's why I had to chip in, you were forgetting that we're playing international basketball here, club records aren't all that relevant!

Re Ingles, you're again just quoting end of season stats, neglecting to see that in most seasons his minutes dropped as the games got more important. Remember, you were claiming he's a quality Euroleague player, he was a solid complementary player at that level, and has been much more effective in the international game.

The Lithos knew and know exactly what they are doing.
They will be very comfortable having drawn Aus.
USA are the best team.
France lost by 3 to USA minus their best player.
Serbia lost to USA by 3.
Aust lost to USA by 10.
If you we Lith, who would you prefer to play out of the 4.
The only 'close' game we've had v USA we've lost.
This will come down to execution under pressure late in the game.
I hope I'm wrong but Lith would have the track record in that dept.
We can do it though and no better time to write our own history. Go u Boomers !!

Boomers beat Lithuania last time 2014 and have a better team this time.

Lithuania are without 3 of the their main bigs from last time. Not sure who they bought in to cover them.

Lithuania crowd support is always immense.

Club records are relevant Paul, if you know what type of players they are and if their skillsets are complementary in international basketball.

The Aussies have a genuine, pass first point guard, a go to scorer, A strong all around big, a banging big man, a stretch 4 and an all around swingman. The Aussies have been very close to it over the past few years, but Bogut has completed this group- taking them over the line from a quarter finalist to a medal level team. (That's what it's looked like so far, anyway! Tomorrow night is obviously the test). And of course, so many of these guys are peaking at the same time.

I'm feeling good about the small little bets I outlayed on Australia and Spain- let's see if they both medal! Hope so!

Has anybody else noticed that the other QF on our side of the draw is between Serbia and Croatia? I'm not sure if anyone else here has any idea of the political history of those two countries, but there's no love lost between them, to say the least!

It could be a bloodbath. I really doubt it, but it favours the winner of our match up with Lithuania in that whichever team prevails, they are likely to be emotionally exhausted. These are two countries that really hate each other.

Yes, there is a history between them, but on the sporting field they also have great respect for one another I think you will find.

Paul- I guess we're getting into semantics now, but I would've thought putting up those kind of stats- and playing 15 minutes a game in the quarter finals, semi final and championship game for the championship team- would make you a "quality Euroleague player". (Of course I mostly watch NBA and NBL, so I have to defer to you, but it's all basketball).

I mean we all know players stats drop when they are in quality teams- for obvious reasons. Kevin Love averaged about 26 points and 14 rebounds one year for Minnesota. When he won a championship for Cleveland this year he was just a role player battling hard for rebounds, and only averaged 8 or 9 points a game in the Finals.

Look at Blanchfield- dominated for a lesser team, then played a smaller role on a semi finalist as he was surrounded by scorers.

So likewise, I'd expect Ingles is a quality Euroleague player because he played a major role on a championship team.

(And by major role, I mean major rotation player- 25 minutes in two of the quarter final matches, 15 minutes in the semi final that they won by a point).

I am not sure which centers are no longer there but it seems like they only have 1 legit center at the moment. That could end up being a factor for us.

Donatas Motiejūnas.

Looking forward to karma biting Lithuania on the arse just as it bit ours 2 years ago.

I'd still have Lithuania as favourites to win this one. They have the pedigree. They have proved to be a true powerhouse in this sort of situation. This Boomers team seems different to past Boomers teams in their mentality, but I believe this mostly applies to our veteran starters. It will also take some good bench performances to get the win over Lithuania.

This is a great opportunity for the Boomers to show that they are truly the best Boomers team ever.

The bookies have Australia as favorites at the moment paying $1.70 to $2.15.

Either way, just because this is a Lithuanian team doesn't mean it will follow the trend of past Lithuanian teams. Even in their wins during the tournament they've hardly looked too impressive. They're good, but I think chances are even at best for them. I doubt they can be seen as true favorites.

Current odds at Sportsbet FWIW:

Boomers $1.61
Lithuania $2.20
Margin 2.5 points

The odds seem about right. Lithuania has a strong history together with recent successes, but the Boomers have been a better team in this tournament so far and have a top 6 who have all won NBA championships or Euroleague championships, so should be able to compete in pressure games.

One big factor in the Boomers favour is the timing. With the game being midnight tomorrow night, that's only 34.5 hours after Lithuania's game which finished around 130pm today.

The Boomers will be very well rested with Delly, Bogut and Patty all having been given a game off or limited minutes over the past two games.

The more important question is - who gets to wear home colours in this one?

I don't think I could watch a whole game of Lithuania in that unfortunate olive green, which clashes badly with the court surrounds!

Apologies in advance I'm sure the forum is going to munge the spacing...

Olympic Tournament Group Phase Stats

Kalnietis 19.2p 2.6r 8.0a 0.8s 0.4b 2.8to 6' 4" G 29yo
Seibutis 7.8p 1.8r 1.8a 1.0s 0.2b 0.4to 6' 5" G 31
Maciulis 10.2p 4.2r 2.0a 1.4s 0.2b 2.4to 6' 6" SF 31
Jankunas 8.8p 4.4r 1.2a 0.6s 0.4b 1.0to 6' 9" PF 32
Valanciunas 7.0p 6.8r 0.6a 0.0s 1.0b 2.6to 6'11" C 24

Kuzminskas 11.8p 4.2r 1.4a 0.0s 0.2b 1.2to 6' 8" SF 26
Sabonis 6.4p 4.6r 0.8a 1.4s 0.6b 1.6to 6'10" PF 20
Grigonis 3.0p 1.6r 1.2a 0.8s 0.0b 0.2to 6' 6" SF 22
Kavaliauskas 2.5p 1.2r 0.2a 0.0s 0.0b 0.2to 6'10" C 31
Kariniauskas 1.5p 0.8r 1.0a 0.0s 0.0b 1.0to 6' 6" PG 22


Dellavedova 9.4p 2.0r 8.6a 1.0s 0.0b 1.0to 6' 3" G 25yo
Mills 20.5p 2.2r 2.0a 1.2s 0.0b 1.8to 6' 0" G 28
Ingles 7.2p 2.2r 3.8a 0.8s 0.0b 1.2to 6' 8" SF 28
Baynes 9.6p 5.8r 1.4a 0.2s 0.2s 2.2to 6' 9" F 29
Bogut 13.0p 5.8r 4.0a 0.5s 1.8b 1.8to 6' 9" C 31

Andersen 9.8p 4.6r 0.2a 0.4s 0.0b 1.2to 6'11" C 36
Broekhoff 7.0p 3.4r 1.6a 0.6s 0.0b 0.4to 6' 7" F 25
Goulding 6.0p 1.8r 2.0a 0.5s 0.0b 0.2to 6' 4" SG 27
Bairstow 5.4p 4.4r 0.2a 0.4s 0.4b 1.2to 6' 9" F 25
Motum 5.0p 2.0r 0.8a 0.5s 0.0b 0.2to 6'10" PF 25
Lisch 3.6p 1.0r 0.8a 0.4s 0.0b 0.6to 6' 2" G 30
Martin 1.5p 1.2r 1.8a 0.8s 0.0b 0.5to 6' 1" G 31

(Australia with a lot more players who only played 4 games, which inflates their numbers a bit)

I shit you not, but FIBA lists Bogut as 6'9" :P

If you look at Patty Mills' numbers in major international tournaments, he's been a flat out superstar on the international stage- 2008, 2012 and 2016 Olympics, and 2010 world championships.

Bogut has been quite good too- in 2004 and 2008 Olympics and 2006 world championships.

This is the first time they've played together, other than Beijing 2008. Add Delly's great form to those two, and you have a trio of guys who are all playing like superstars on the international stage.

Saboooonissssss!!!!! ROY Candidate

WE GOT THIS BOOMERS!

My head and heart say Boomers but after watching Lithuania vs Argentina where they weren't terribly impressive and their insipid efforts against Spain and Croatia, I wonder if they were taking or if they are out if form and Spain are proof that you can get form back in such a short time.

Boomers have looked so impressive and i wonder about the health of Bairstow and if he's absent if it will be to the Boomers benefit or leave a gaping hole that Motum can't fill.

Truly can't wait and Lithuania will wear green as they have much of the tournament

I'm more worried about Lithuania than any other non-American team in this tournament.

As said above, I hope karma bites them for taking a dive like what happened to us.

I doubt Lithuania have been trying to tank their last three games and accidentally beat Argentina. I think that is just their level of play this time around.

Can they find form? Of course. Any of these teams can blow up at any time and that is what makes them so dangerous in such a short tournament.

Bairstow will be a small loss. I think Bogut, Anderson and Baynes were set to play more of the big time games anyway. I don't like having to defer to Motum but at least he has a nice Euro step I suppose. Australia is well stocked in big men, moreso than anyone else in the tournament, so we're lucky.

Lithuania can wear rags for all I care. I hope they go down!

They're replaying the highlights of the Boomers vs USA game on 7Mate now, for anyone wanting to relive that first half.

Yes, there is a history between them, but on the sporting field they also have great respect for one another I think you will find.

^ Thanks, Dazz. I really am looking forward to seeing the spirit this one is played in.

Most of the players on the Serbian and Croat teams get along very well, as they come through the ranks they play together and against each other on a weekly basis in the Adriatic League. The hatred is more for certain former political and military leaders than the people of each country in my experience.

LV, I think we just have different definitions of quality. If by quality you mean a contributor at that level then I completely agree, but if you mean a high-level player in that comp then I strongly disagree.

Joe seemed to be a bit loose with the ball to get a major role in the offence with a top Euroleague team, but his style has been more effective in the NBA and with the Bommers, where he can use his instinctive feel for the flow the game more.

It's very different styles from Australia and the US to the Euroleague, that's a big reason why guys like Motum, Johnson and Khazzouh have had their various issues there, controlled offence and defence in a half-court situation is king.

Those differences are what makes Olympic basketball so great for me. There is so much diversity in how the game is played and understood from one league and country to another.

Dazz = village idiot

The game is midnight Wednesday night aka 12am Thursday morning AEST

I'm more worried about Lithuania than any other non-American team in this tournament.

As said above, I hope karma bites them for taking a dive like what happened to us.

I just don't buy that they tanked and no one has anything to suggest they're tanking other than poor performance. Pretty sure their main guys played massive minutes over the past two games and they had no reason to avoid first position so it's a funny looking tank.

Is it wrong to feel less confident after watching the Opals play awful, lacked movement, defense and turned the ball over 26 (to 9) and just looked unmotivated... And got some strange calls and no calls against them...

Or should we feel just as confident in the knowledge we are coached by somebody that is getting the most out of our boys

I'm just feeling anxious

I wouldn't read anything into that. The one thing I'll say is that the Opals have had issues the whole tournament, and it caught up to them tonight.
In contrast, the Boomers are probably playing their best basketball ever. Really can't ask for more than that going into this quarter final.

Proud, I think tonight's game might put a rocket up the Boomers' asses and cause them to hustle like mad. That was the obvious difference in this game - Australia expected the win, while Serbia desperately pried it away from them.

Win or lose tomorrow, (hopefully win), I am sure the Boomers cannot play as poorly and with the level of entitlement that the Opals showed. I expect them to play even harder now after having seen the game.

Paul, I guess I just meant starter level player. One of the Main guys off the bench on champs should make him a starter on most teams, and one of the top 3 or 4 for some. Didn't mean star or all star player.

Although your comments are interesting, that might explain why Ingles hasn't got the greatest Euro record that one might expect when watching how well he's done for the Boomers.

Getting back to our original discussion, if you look at the international record of Ingles and Mills, I think my comment had a lot of validity in terms of international records too. Ingles, (2010, 2012,2014) and Mills (2008, 2010, 2012) and Bogut (2004,2006,2008) and Baynes (2014 was great, only bench minutes in 2012) have been impressive in the major tournys, it's just that Bogut has missed so much and Mills missed 2014. You can say those 4 have starred at major international comps, add Delly's form and you have a genuinely star studded 5, with plenty of support from the bench.

Why are people talking about Opals? That had to be their worst major tourny in a long time- their troubles didn't start with the quarter final.

And Baynes was a good contributor off the bench in limited minutes in2012 too.

These guys have all got impressive international competition resumes, and now they are all finally playing together In the primes of their careers. Saying Aus has very credentialled Names was a fair thing to say

They're credentialed names by some measures but they're yet to truly achieve as a team. Hopefully that changes tonight!

"Saying Aus has very credentialled Names was a fair thing to say"

Indeed it is, but that wasn't what you said, you said they had better individual talent than Lithuania.

My view is the Litho players have produced more in international basketball (which is what's relevant here) and that the strong form of the Boomers this tournament makes them two very evenly matched teams.

Fair enough. I think the reason Lithuania have produced more is because they've had more opportunity. Lithuania gets to play a major tournament every year, where as Australia only gets that chance every second year. And The Boomers best two players missed the last one in 2014. Bogut's actually missed the last 3. So if we're comparing these teams we are comparing apples and oranges. My theory is that, given the names Australia has now got on court together,- ie we now have the opportunity the Lithuanians have had every year, - we're a very good chance of beating them. It all comes down to one game though!

Danger game, so sad for the Opals, but this team is better prepared.

Most Olympics I can remember it's been the consolation of cheering the girls to a medal after being crushingly disappointed by the guys. Just hoping it's a complete turnaround this time. We've already had the crushing disappointment

And also Paul, I think you do have to admit that whilst this Lithuanian group came second in Eurobasket 2015, their team prior to that was quite different. Eg players from their 2012 london, and/or 2013 eurobasket and/or 2014 world cup teams who are not on this current team:

Linas Kleiza
Motiejunas
D Lavrinovic
K Lavrinovic
Pocius
Jasaitis
Delininkaitis
Jasikevicius
Songaila

Now, most of these guys fit into 1 of 2 boats. They are unavailable for Rio, or they've aged significantly and are now retired, or 34+ years old so have been replaced.

So the point is, this current Lithuanian team - whilst it has some experienced heads- is not the same group that has achieved all their success over the past few years. Australia, on the other hand, has brought back their best two players since their last major event

A browse through the stats seems to suggest that many of the guys from the above list have been a major part of Lithuanias team in the past few years.

Majority of the main players on their London team are now gone.

http://london2012.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/12/olym/team/p/eid/6232/sid/6232/tid/2135/profile.html

6 of their 12 man roster from Eurobasket 2013 not in Rio.

https://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/team/p/sid/8722/tid/2135/_/2013_EuroBasket/accumulated-statistics.html

6 of their 12 man roster from 2014 world cup are not in Rio either.

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/team/p/sid/6241/tid/2135/_/2014_FIBA_Basketball_World_Cup/accumulated-statistics.html

The point here, Paul, is that you're stretching the truth if you're talking about what "this Lithuanian team" has achieved. It's not the same team.

Eg Paul, your comments yesterday @ #595307 above are not really accurate.

The Lithuanian teams who have achieved past successes have been very different teams. Except Eurobasket 2015.

(PS I'm home from work sick. No more posts on this now!!)

LV, I would prefer less woofing please. This is a danger game against a team that consistently and historically outperforms expectations based on our own parochial worldview.

Latest odds
Australia $1.56
Lithuania $2.44

Good to see more money coming in for the aussies, so that when I place my anti-mockers bet on Lithuania I'll get a rather generous (IMO) price.

It's going to be a tough game against two fairly evenly matched teams. I feel Australia has a few advantages but Lithuania has a history of playing their way into medal rounds. Yes, this is not the exact same team, but they've done it again and again with different rosters so it tells you just how good their entire program is. It will be a fight, but 'hopefully' the Boomers show themselves to just have a few too many angles to their offense tonight.

Lol woofing, you're joking right. I was just pointing out some misleading stuff Paul said. In fact the whole debate started when Paul took issue with me saying exactly what you just said- that the Lithuanians outperform expectations. They play team oriented basketball, they're disciplined, they're experienced.

I don't think the Boomers are a shoe in, far from it. To win a quarter final at the Olympics, you need to play well. Just because the Boomers have been playing well doesn't mean they will continue to do so. One bad half (like Brazils first half vs Lithuania) and it could be all over.

Paul is saying you have a parochial worldview, which is the part of my quote you omitted to reference. So I guess I agree with both of you?

I am just suggesting you leave it until we have a result worth talking about before we congratulate ourselves on how good our team looks on paper (which is pretty meaningless right now for the Opals).

It's incredibly glitchy and has awful commentary.

This one is on 7mate

Thread should be renamed "LV and paul argue over semantic crap".

"The point here, Paul, is that you're stretching the truth if you're talking about what "this Lithuanian team" has achieved. It's not the same team."

LV, if you're going to mount a google argument at least search properly.

Seven of this year's 12-man Lithuanian roster have played in either three or four tournaments in the past four years. Another has played in two in that span.

Between them, this Lithuanian team has something like 22 Eurobasket medals and 12 top four finishes in a WC or Olympics. These guys have achieved a lot, even if they've done it without you noticing.

Yes, but my point is that Kleiza, Motiejunas, Pocius and others played major roles in getting those medals.

Question: How many NBL titles has Greg Hire won?

Answer: None without Nate Jawai, James Ennis, Jermaine Beal and friends winning it with him.

Well Paul & LV, all I can say is, I was born in the 60's.....and I'm scared shitless about us playing Lithuania tonight!!

A bit like a recurring nightmare !!

I'm worried too!

I'm hopeful that the Venezuela game was just a blip. That was more Rio Opals than Rio Boomers!

Nerves building here too.
Just got my bet on at $2.55
Here's hoping I finish the night poorer.

Live stats here. Game starts in about 10 minutes.

Bairstow out injured.

Game on 7mate according to Andrew Gaze.

As with most events in Rio the Brazilians have stayed away in droves for today's game.

That is why countries such as Brazil and Greece should never be allowed to hold a basketball world cup. They only come out to watch their own team!

Nice start. 2 threes & 2 fouls

Martin is going to really harass fools all night, his aggression is an x factor here.

Bairstow is a big loss but the big men doing well so far.

Loving this D

Cambage in the stands enjoying a user-friendly roll

http://www.hoops.com.au/forum/10653-the-john-casey-drinking-game/

Is this a record number of offensive fouls in the quarter?

Try watching this with dodgy Filippino commentary. At least it is on Malaysian tv!

Settle down, Delly

DELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Solid start here. Umps are out of control with these offensive fouls though.

Great start. Shots hitting and D is intense

Handy start, that :D

Brilliant stuff but we can't rely on 3s all game when we are letting them drive into the paint.

Lithuania certainly had a lot of shots waived away in that first quarter. They found it hard to finish when Baynes was in the vicinity

They show the first quarter on 73, then switch to 71 after quarter time. That's going to screw over a lot of people who stayed up to see what channel it was on, to record it.

Showing Delly no respect and he's making them pay.

Oh my god. They have left the basketball for the athletics. Isn't that why they have 3 channels?

And did Delly just hit another 3?

John Casey is so clinical with his commentary. He pretty much is a human sound board with his set sayings that he cycles through.

Ok. Regained composure and changed channels.

User friendly roll there for Jonas, but it was waived away

Dafuq is that floating dessert?

Flop warning for Patty, and fair enough too. He got a bit Melb Tigers there

World class defence. Holding #3 team in the world to 22 points with 3 mins to go in the 1st half.

Calm down, Patty.....

^ haha, I enjoyed that one as well.
Casey has a couple of variations in his playbook

Lithuania losing the plot.

Boomers getting the better of this over-sensitive reffing atm

Whoa, you don't see Jingles going upstairs too often

Wow, great first half, lets keep this up!!!

Rest the starters for the semi in this 2nd half :p

Is it just me or do the Lithanian players always throw their heads back when the defense attempts a steal?

Those last 20 seconds aside, that was just about as good a half as any of us could have expected.

I feel so privileged to watch such great basketball.

Liking the confidence the Aussies are playing with. They don't look intimidated by matching up against a bunch of international stars with 20+ Eurobasket medals...

I expect Lithuania to go back to that full court pressure- they have to try something different, and that's what got them within striking distance after giving up a big lead vs Croatia

Very happy with the 18 point lead at the half but this probably the best run with the refs I've ever seen us get an international game. Everything is going our way. Our defence has been fantastic but they will come out hard in the second half and we need to keep our nerve.

Boot on the throat!

OK, seriously though, that was frikkin sweet and all, but I'd like to see us actually run some offence this half.

Ok, the lid is off. We're winning a medal this year.

Given that the game was moved to 7s main channel from 7mate (in favor of the athletics no less), I'm assuming the ratings are looking good!

Things have gone well because we have beem nailing threes but I am with Luuuc. We need to run and finish some plays this half.

Time to get the ball into the right hands.
LTU gonna have to start pressing & gambling. Should be some cheap points for the taking if we stay composed and aggressive.

It's at this point I should probably confess my love for John Casey. Oh how I've missed non-preferred left hand!

Let's get Maciulas another foul.

eeeeks

Bogut is not going to let this go!!!!

There it is!

Nervous 3 minutes but we emerge from it just 1 point worse off and with a couple more fouls for them.
Time to knuckle down.

Andersen's getting his bad game out of the way tonight.

Why is Bogut still out there on 3?

Their captain hasn't played at all. What's that about?

Damo playing his role to perfection

Plenty of starch in the D.

Ohhhhh yeahhhhhhh :D

Bairstow isn't even suited up. What's wrong with him?

This is beautiful.

Sweet to watch.

Bairstow dislocated his shoulder it went back in by itself and Casey said he will be a chance to play in the SF.

Soak it in, people. Soak this sweet 4th quarter in :)

Guys I think we might have a pretty good team.

Umps were all over Maciulis tonight.

I don't know why I ever felt apprehensive about this game.

This has been beautiful to watch.

Dat pass

Just need Lisch to splash a three to make this game complete

How awesome would it be to see the Boomers in the Grand Final. Knowing they'll achieve their first medal entering into it and playing Team USA with nothing to lose after already playing them and learning from it.

How can u watch the ser v Cro game? 7app?

Would be even better if Spain beat USA and we played them for Gold instead.

Turn it on Boomers. This is great to watch

I don't know why I ever felt apprehensive about this game.

This has been beautiful to watch.

Lithuania's international mega stars really having an off night here....

The fixturing is very kind to the Aussies. An extra 12 hours of recovery and prep time for the semi? Thank you muchly.

Motum in for Bairstow.
Goulding at the 3.
Let's go Andrej

Ahh yes. True. Although it would be "grand", would it not???!!!

Best thing about this is we get to see a great Boomers team 2 more times at these Olympics.

Talk about going from the outhouse to the penthouse! This is more then making up for last night. Is this the best performance from a Boomer's team? Our guards have absolutely slaughtered them

Well I've thoroughly enjoyed this.

Boomers in the semis of a major tourney- it's been a long time between drinks. Glad that they've proven what I suspected before this started- this is easily the best Boomers team of the past decade and a half.

With Exum, Simmons and Maker, maybe this is the start of a Boomers Golden Generation. For now, let's just enjoy this one

Lithwhoania?

carn the Boomers!!!

Haha. Yes Paul George best be getting his tissue box ready......

Think Damo really showed his worth right there. Was the perfect do-or-die matchup to demonstrate the reasons for his inclusions. May miss Newley more against other line ups but can't argue the importance of Damo's work in this game,

I think I'm a little stunned, it was incredible!!!! Who can get to sleep after that!?

Those 4 assists & 4 steals .... Newley would have dunked those ;)

Fiba live feed for this game talled about how we are (were ;) ) ranked 11th in the world.

I thought it would be cranking too.
Not much more to say I guess. Turned out to be a pretty cruisey win, with nothing we haven't seen before in the pool games.

WHAT A WIN!

Boomers destroy Lithuania, move onto the semi-finals

30 assists on 33 made FG!

We next face Serbia or Croatia - no lost between them! Hopefully they beat each other up!

Because any of us that are that old to know the NBL from the 80's & 90's can't stay up like we used to...

Haha, that rare time when the WA time zone isn't a disadvantage

No time difference issues when we defend the gold in Tokyo

One of the many great things about this win is that we can now rave on about Australia's roster having 12 top 4 (at least!) Olympic finishes.

Incredible team performance.

The haters have certainly disappeared from this thread. Remember how we were going to get dominated by Euro teams, lose by 20 every game and not make the crossovers? Where are those guys now? I'd like to hear more about how Delly sucks.. please.

Nice Boomers! made going to work this morning a little easier.

I can't remember being more excited than this about basketball!! This team is truly amazing.

To put how well they play together in perspective, they have now handed out 160 assists (to 70 turnovers) in six games. The previous best by a Boomers team at a major tourny is 143 in eight games. Incredible.

Bogut is just a freak big man with his ability to read the game and put passes on the money.

And Damian Martin - wow! He certainly shut up some critics tonight. He and Delly have 58 assists, 13 steals and just eight turnovers between them.

So amazing to see us dominate a Euro powerhouse with pressure basketball after having lost so many key games not being able to play that European style.

Getting ahead of myself, but the Boomers are a legit gold medal chance. That would be a nice way to flush the memory of so many disappointing Aussie team efforts these Olympics, most notably the Opals.

"Those 4 assists & 4 steals .... Newley would have dunked those ;)"

Gold, my friend.

I guess the other thing to come out of this is Lithuania either didn't manufacture results, they just fell apart mysteriously after beating Argentina, or else they got completely run over by the karma bus!! Either way, what they'll face at home will make what Joyce and the Opals are copping seem pretty tame.

Boomers win. I get on the screen and my chewbacca helps with a missed Lithuanian free throw. Job well done

One game at a time boys, well done on a great effort but focus on the next game now!

Lithuania were brave I thought, they lacked our depth for sure but were dangerous in a couple of positions, which we scouted and did a good job to nullify.

Confidence is king and at the moment we are on that side of the court, pun intended...

Offence wins games....Defence wins medals

Generally speaking @skull, I wouldn't disagree, however the Boomers have always been a good team defensively and our team oriented style would create good shots from the field, however this team is different.

This team can defend as well as teams in the past, it can play team oriented basketball as well as teams in the past, what separates the 2016 Boomers from the pack before it is confidence gained through experience and self belief.

We just don't usually see this amount of dunking and ally-oopness in our boys and I am loving it...

It sends a message, one that is making the whole world sit up and take notice!

Great win for the Boomers, congratulations and lets hope they can snag a Medal.
Lemanis has them playing a great brand of team basketball that is a pleasure to watch.

I will be cheering for the Green & Gold.

That was fun. Let's do it again.

I doubt they sell any of the Olympic uniforms

Seems an odd thing for a sports apparel company not to bother selling, right?
This sponsorship would not have been cheap. Milk it for all it's worth, Adidas!

Don't think the Olympic uniforms worn by the athletes in any sport is ever made available to the public. Makes sense, but I sure would love to rock one of those jerseys.

I think theyy are, yes.

After spending all night on a plane I arrived this morning to the great news. Have been trying to follow as best I could and had a VPN so watch some games on BBC with a crappy internet connection.

Now I am home is there anywhere I can watch a replay as my VPN has expired.

Pretty sure that game replays are free on the 7Rio2016 website & app.

They're not, that's premium-only. I think one was, briefly, at a lower resolution, but I've not since seen any replays available without premium (although I've only checked once, back when I couldn't sign in). Premium is free for Telstra customers, though, so all you need is a Telstra ID.

Martin certainly got some good minutes this game. I guess Lemanis likes what he brings on defence.
(definitely not there for his scoring ability)

Really pleased with Martin's impact, 4 assists and 4 steals. Martin even had the best +/- per minute on the team with +21 in 16 minutes. It will be interesting to see if Teodosic comes off the bench again, because that might make Martin especially vital if he again is first guard off the bench.

Damo is now +57 in 59 minutes and is fifth in the comp in steals despite playing less than 12mpg. He certainly isn't wasting this chance he has waited so long for!

Yes Damien Martin has justified his selection. Australia has done a great job of rotating pests on opposition guards and throwing them out of their offense.

"Question: How many NBL titles has Greg Hire won?

Answer: None without Nate Jawai, James Ennis, Jermaine Beal and friends winning it with him."

You've said some hilariously wrong stuff lately, but comparing Kalnietis, Maciulis, Kuzminskas, Seibutis and Valanciunas to Greg Hire takes the cake! Thanks for the entertainment.

This person has missed the point that people don't win NBL titles without having atleast 4 other players on the floor.

"You've said some hilariously wrong stuff lately, but comparing Kalnietis, Maciulis, Kuzminskas, Seibutis and Valanciunas to Greg Hire takes the cake! Thanks for the entertainment".

Huge straw man.

The point is not that Greg Hire is comparable to Seibutis etc, or even that his value on the Wildcats is comparable to the value all those guys bring to the Lithuanian team. The point was that basketball is a team game, and Paul was giving too much credit to these Lithuanian players for results achieved with teams that included other players.

I said the Aussie team had better names- on the basis of what they have achieved at various levels of basketball- NBA, Europe, International. And I also said I expected good results on the court from these names in this team- on the basis of the compatibility of their skillsets on the basketball court. I'm very happy to see the Boomers confirming my suspicions about them and becoming officially the best Aussie team in 15+ years and - the way it’s looked throughout this tournament - the best Boomers team ever.

LV, what are you judging their contribution to those wins on. You wrote "I mostly watch NBA and NBL", but now you know who has done what for Lithuania over the years?

How many of their games have you watched over the period where the core of the current group have been playing?

Their top five scorers from the 2015 silver are in Rio, so are three of their top four scorers from 2014 and three of their top four scorers from the 2013 silver.

If the top scorers from their 2nd, 4th and 2nd place finishes the past three years don't get credit for their success, who does? If you look at the other major stat categories the story is mostly the same.

The reality is both Australia and Lithuania have excellent talent, but because you watch mostly the NBA and NBL you aren't aware of many of the Lithuanians like you are the Aussies.

Paul- when you've been playing, watching and/or coaching basketball for 20 years, you don’t need to watch every game to get an idea of what’s happening. Stats, of course, don’t even tell half the story but they do tell us a lot. Although you don’t need to be some kind of basketball connoisseur to see that the Lithuanian teams from 2013 and 2014 were very different to the teams from Rio.

As I said, Lithuania have virtually the same team as 2015 so I don’t mind you giving them credit for Eurobasket last year (Although, having said that, they won some very close games which suggests that might have been a bit lucky on occasions).

My issue was with prior to that- where analysis of the minutes spread shows that the team was totally different.

In 2014, there were 9 main guys in the rotation. There were only 9 players who played in every single game, and those were also the only 9 players who averaged at least 12 minutes per contest. 4 of them were not in Rio.

In 2013 the story is much the same- They had 9 main guys in their rotation. 7 players who appeared in all 11 games. 3 of them were not in Rio. They had another 2 who appeared in 10 of 11 games. 1 of them was not in Rio. Again, 4 of the 9 rotation players weren’t in Rio.

So in Rio, Lithuania had only about half of their rotation from the 2013 Eurobasket and the 2014 worlds.

Lithuania had a bunch of experienced heads in Rio- but also had some inexperienced kids and lesser players. Perhaps that’s why in the quarter final, after Maciulis did some boneheaded things and had to sit on the bench, and after Jankunas got injured, the team struggled so much. Maybe if they’d had Motiejunas, Kleiza etc- instead of Grigonis, Sabonis etc- they would have put up a more competitive performance.

I'm just going to repeat this paragraph for you.

Their top five scorers from the 2015 silver are in Rio, so are three of their top four scorers from 2014 and three of their top four scorers from the 2013 silver.

Most of the core of their recent success is in Rio. Seven of these guys have played in either three or four tournaments the past four years, including most of their leading scorers.

Just admit it you got it wrong when you said I was giving the guys too much credit for their part in Lithuania's team success. The facts are clear, these are high-quality international players.

Yes, Lithuania would be better with a couple more of their frontcourt players for sure, but that doesn't subtract from the international quality of the key guys who are here.

Agree with you re their end of bench depth, and I think it's a great credit to the Aussies the way our guys without a heap of international experience have played their roles.

We can both pick facts that suit ourselves.

4 of their 9 rotation players from the 2013 worlds and the 2014 Eurobasket, and 6 of their 12 man roster for each tournament were not in Rio. If we go back to 2010- when Lithuania also achieved success which you were including in your tallies- then the team was even more different. Much more so.

Further, go back to the context of the debate. I said that Australia had better names- and I meant the combination of their body of work in NBA, Europe and International basketball- which is all relevant. Nothing you've said has made me question that. I have never said that Seibutis, Kalneitis etc were not impressive players- my argument was that Lithuania is a program that gets the most out of its players but that the Boomers had more impressive individual players. (As it turns out, we both agree that the Boomers under Lemanis are fast turning into a program that also gets the most out of it’s talent!).

I was referring to Patty Mills- who was the leading scorer in the London Olympics and then was a key element of the Spurs bench in their NBA championship- in an offensive system that is as much international as it is NBA. I was referring to Aron Baynes, who was the Boomers best player in the 2014 Worlds. I was referring to Bogut and the roles he has played as the starting 5 man- protecting the rim and setting screens- on an NBA championship team. Etc etc.

Lithuania’s rotation- highly decorated as they are with the important roles they’ve played in World championships, Eurobaskets etc- is simply not as impressive a group of basketball players, individually, as Australia’s players in terms of what they’ve achieved on the basketball court.

In international basketball Lithuania's talent is evenly matched to Australia's.

In the NBA Australia has a clear edge.

In Europe the Lithuanians have the edge, with the David Andersen the only Boomer who has been a high-level Euroleague player for more than a couple of months.

Yeah that's fair, but, of course, Lithuania has had more opportunities to showcase their talent individually because they're in Europe so they get to compete in Eurobasket every 2 years. Whereas Australia gets to play a couple of games against New Zealand. So in some ways, the comparison is a little unfair on the Aussies.

Bogut has been injured and hasn’t been able to show what a talent he is much since 2008. Patty- after leading the scoring in London- missed 2014 worlds, so hasn’t actually had the chance to compete in a major international event during the prime of his career- until now!

Most of the Aussie team (notably Bogut, Patty, Delly) have barely even played in Europe because they went straight to the NBA. The body of the work of the Aussies in the NBA- if you watch them closely- shows that they were likely to translate their abilities and star in the international game. And so far they have.

It’s just unfortunate that with the changing schedule, this team won’t get to play the world cup until 2019 instead of 2018. But it looks very promising for 2019 and 2020!

*Most of the Aussie team* as in, the ones in the NBA, obviously.... Baynes and Ingles being the only ones who played much in Europe.

"Lithuania has had more opportunities to showcase their talent individually" was meant to be *internationally*, I really need to proof read more :-)

Andersen, Baynes, Ingles, Motum, Lisch and Broekhoff have all played multiple seasons in Europe, and all played in the Euroleague from memory. Goulding also played one season in the ACB. That's 7/12.

The key Aussie guys have played plenty of major tournaments now, and all played together last year too which was a bonus. Lisch is our only rookie.

Andersen 6
Baynes 3
Bogut 4
Ingles 5
Mills 4
Dellavedova 3

That's one of the key reasons they are doing so well, they know the international game, they know each other, they know the game plan.

I'd like to see them keep Lemanis.

It seems we change Boomers coaches every few years. Off the top of my head I can't recall the reasons (if people stood down, or were pushed?) but regardless of what happens from here, this has been a successful tourny by most observers reckoning, and clearly everyone buys into Lemanis' plan.

Most of the players will still be around in 2019 and 2020 also, so keeping the same successful system can only help.

Yep. No Aussie team has come close to playing like this one. It's a real Aussie style of basketball and the world is struggling to handle it.

After years of watching NZ play the style from our part of the world and perform really well, it's great to see our boys execute it so well with world class talent to boot.

Huge credit to Lemanis, he has built something special, step-by-step over four years. Hopefully someone will give that man a medal!

You are right Paul. I have always been jealous of the way the NZ have played at International Basketball while we looked dis-organised. They were able to get the best out of a bunch of very good and high IQ players that didn't have the talent available that their opposition id. Finally we appear to have added Structure to a very talented squad that have the attitude and basketball smarts to succeed.

Adding Bogut was also pretty important, just sayin'

Yep, without him or a similar passing big man we couldn't be effective in this style offence. He is to the Boomers what Pero Cameron was to NZ, only with a bit more defence!

That should say "as effective", the Kiwis have been able to do it pretty well post-Cameron.

I think our other bigs have passed the ball well this tournament, but Bogut is something else in that department. I think there are only two other centres in the tournament within half of his 4.4apg.

I rate him for so much more than an assist %, especially since assists rely of the other guy hitting the shot, not just a great pass.

Bogut brings the positive, take no prisoners attitude and self belief that gives us the confidence to do everything we are doing well!

Yes, he is big and yes he is a terrific player, but if we are talking difference makers, it is his presence and ability to make others play at the highest level that is our biggest bonus IMHO...

We have gone from a team of 'maybe we can win' to a team of 'we should win' players with him leading the charge!

Yep, agree. Patty Mills has been big on that for a few years now too, and the rest of the group has bought in.

Obviously Bogut's IQ at the defensive end allows Mills, Delly, Lisch and Damo to play as aggressively as they are, not just blocking shots but filling gaps before they open and directing teammates. He's a gem.