Pictures: http://m.imgur.com/a/I75LB

Lobo, a lawyer could come after you for one aspect of this post. If you want to retract it, let me know, otherwise I can send them your way.

But I read that "Thonette Maker" graduated from St Hilda's Anglican School for Girls in 2005, but then Smith arranged for gender re-alignment surgery to avoid the lower salaries of the WNBA.

The Bucks have actually drafted a 28 year old post-op birth female.

Everytime Thon's real age was brought up on this forum people played the race card and said that it was a sensitive subject and accusations shouldn't be made.

But now we have some pretty solid evidence that people's original thoughts on his age are true.

It sadden's me that Thon's age will effect future potential draft picks from Australia. Because it's not the case with all players with similar backgrounds.

I hope something is said/done about it because you shouldn't be able to cheat the system. And it's amazing how many people that potentially knew of the age change were all "congratulations and well done". It's like no one cared his age was incorrect.

He's a talented basketball player no doubt. I'm all for supporting someone like Thon but I can't condone the lying and age changing if true.

"Im curious to know which part of the original post is dodge"

I imagine calling someone "shonky" would be seen as defamatory.

what yr did he actually come to Australia?

What yr did he start high school?

What yrs/age groups was he playing junior soccer?

what yrs/age groups did he play junior basketball in Perth?

There must be answers to the above out there somewhere.

No idea when he came to Australia.

According to the year book photos. He graduated Aranmore High School in Perth in 2010 and would have been at least 17 years old then.

Junior basketball - from what I've heard, he never played for a specific club while in Perth. Just within the local community at a rec center (Herb Graham) all unorganized.

Majok Majok (Melbourne United), played for East Perth (same club Tom Jervis is from) and Majok would also play pick up at Herb Graham. An online article mentions Ed Smith met Thon via Majok.

No idea about the junior soccer stuff.

It appears that Thon's age was changed when he moved state.

I imagine it would be hard for scouts to find out the whole truth of his schooling history when they are provided with a high school transcript from a Sydney school. Why would they think there was another?

And that risk is all on the clubs recruiting.

I don't buy the "didn't want any potential weaknesses exposed in the NCAA". I think it's more along the lines of the NCAA eligibility requirements are stricter than Canada's system.

You can be older than you are because of your background and situation when you were young. But when you are older than you are because you purposely change it for athletic gain, then that's another story.

There's been the suggestion that the Bucks knew and didn't care.

I think the Bucks should care about his age. If he is 19, he is a great project. If he is 23, he is much closer to his prime and still underdone.

Not that it is conclusive in any way but he doesn't look older than 19. I am not sure about the validity of the photos, either. If he has spent his whole life unsure of his age he could easily have been brought up a few years in school.

This will be a recurring issue with African-born players. The only time it will really matter is in situations just like this where the player is being drafted solely on potential.

Thon was already 23 when he arrived in Australia, he was just malnourished and very small for his age. He had no formal education and so had to start from scratch. He also got held back a couple of years (because his teachers didn't like black kids) so was 37 when he graduated from Aranmore.

(I know this because my cousin's boyfriend's sister's hairdresser once shaved the head of a dude who was married to one of Thon's teachers)

Hence Thon is actually 43.
This should be a big worry for the Bucks, as the average life expectancy of a South Sudanese male is less than 40 years.

Surely people could easily just track down his classmates and check with them?

Kids from his school have posted on r/NBA and remember him. But as someone said, it's not like they know his age, just the year he was in at school. The issue supposedly came when he switched to NSW.

I know I'm in the minority, but I think it's quite easy for NBA scouts to not have found out about Thon's High School graduation in Perth.

When applying for the NBA Draft or NCAA colleges, I'm sure it's on the player to provide paperwork.

From what we've been told, Thon attended high school in Sydney. So he has that paperwork. It is legit and that's that.

The NBA/College powers that be would see that and accept it.

There would be reasoning why he would have or not have certain documents.

It's up to the player/coach to provide that information.

How would the NBA know what school or club to locate in WA when doing their research? Thon never played for a club in WA and no one knew he went to Aranmore. It only surfaced after he became a big deal because of the draft.

Also RE: Class mates, not everyone cares what other people are doing. And many may know he's not 19, but again many don't care and wouldn't bother saying anything.

Regardless of the people involved I find this whole saga interesting.

with having to learn English, i would think he would have been "behind" with his schooling and would be older not younger than his class mates.

Jonathan Givony from Draft Express has done some research on Maker age and has come up with clear evidence

Isnt there a test they can do using his bones to find out how old he is?

That's trees. They cut a tree and count the rings.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/bone-tests-can-only-estimate-not-determine-one-s-age/1055375/ Better than nothing...

RMQ. Does that mean he is only one y o? Unless he is Thonette and ..........

Guys, be careful. Do your research. Isaac is correct.

Make sure you preface your statements that you think are factual but in reality are just your opinion with "In my opinion".

Under the law, everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether that be right or wrong.

Don't portray opinions as fact.

In my opinion there appears to be some statements in the original post that are opinions, but to me they read as factual. In my opinion, that is what may cause some grief for Lobo.

It's called a bone density scan. I believe the ICC use it for the World U19 championships.

I think a Pakistan U19 Cricket team may have been sent home in one of the ICC sanctioned U19 tournaments, quite possibly an ICC U19 Asia tournament, in the early 2000's.

I think it went a long the lines of - there were clear questions about the age of some of the players. Enough to force the ICC or organizers to request a bone density scan for the team and the result was the team was prevented from playing in the tournament.

Doesn't really matter. He's been drafted.

Also, agree that just because he was in a graduating class in 2010 doesn't mean he was 16, 17 or even 18.

He could've been 14, none of us know.

However there are strict requirements for academic qualification for the NCAA relating to repeating years.

Basically, repeating years is not allowed. You have to complete years 9 to 12 in four consecutive years. So if he graduated in Perth, regardless of his age. He'd find he would have difficulty qualifying for US college if he's repeated years, whether that be in Sydney &/or High School in America.

Let's see how he progresses.

For me whether we like it or not is not the issue, the inference to me in all of this is Thon is/has been clearly associated with Australia and Basketball Australia. To me we've probably lost a little bit of respect if this is true.

Also, Thon has openly denied the age issue.

What does all this mean for his brother, Matur?

Pity the other current and future young Australians that have African heritage. It is now going to be that much tougher for them.

However, there is another quite well known Australian player, Deng Adel (NCAA Div 1 Louisville), where there has been similar persistent rumours about his true age as well for at least 5 or 6 years.

My view is that that yearbook photo is indeed Thon however it was him graduating the english school not year 12. The 9.2 class photo looks nothing like him. People from the school on reddit said there was around 7 or 8 makers at the school i think its mistaken identity for another thon maker at the school.


This photo is the best evidence. do you really think he looks 19/20 in this photo? No chance!!

http://www-static4.spulsecdn.net/pics/00/35/88/96/35889639_1_O.jpg

So he's the same age as as Aussie who finished he's senior college year this year? Or like Buddy Hield?

But, if the claims above are true I don't like the deceitfulness of his marketing campaign by him & his handlers. It has a smell about it.

Isn't there some rule that any player (or possibly only international player) is automatically entered into the draft at a certain age (if they're not in college)? From memory it is 21 or 23. If it's 21 it would make things weird as he should technically have been a free agent

Aliir Aliir from the Sydney Swans has revealed he is Thon's cousin and they lived together and played "hoops" in Newcastle. Aliir Aliir is listed as being born 5/9/1994 making him nearly 22yrs.

From first hand knowledge I know many of the African refugee children to not know their birthdate, especially if they have been separated from their parents. Many of them at schools have their birthdate registered as 1/1/20..

An issue is, if he is 23 or older he would have been ineligible for the draft in the first place.

If he is 23-24, becomes a decent NBA player but commits to the boomers for the next 10 years all is forgiven.

If he is 19 but goes out of his way to avoid playing for the boomers then he's no good.

Anyone of note? Played in the 2015 hoop summit.. Brandon Ingram and Jaylen Brown.

Forgot about that game. 14 minutes 2 turnovers 2 fouls 0 of 5 shooting against a guy who went something like 28th who had 21 6 boards 6 blocks.

Yes Thon also had 10 boards in those 14 minutes which I'll give props for

He is going to be a good player, ill stand with him. Cant wait for all these hatters to jump on his bandwagon in a few years when he is playing well.

Maker, who says he is 19 but has faced questions he is much older after images yesterday surfaced from an old school yearbook, played for St George Basketball in Sydney in 2011.

Club administrator Anna Pazanin said she sighted his passport when he was registered with Basketball New South Wales in 2011.

"I saw his passport, I had the passport in my hand," Pazanin said.

“We need some form of ID and his passport was produced as that form of ID, it had his name date of birth and picture.

“He wouldn't have been able to play in our comp if he wasn’t back then U16.

“He was definitely at the right age when playing for St George Basketball.”

Ms Pazanin said she had not seen the Reddit pictures that purport Maker graduated from Aranmore Catholic College in Perth in 2010, but said she had faced several questions from media, including from the US, over his age.

“He’s just a tall kid,” she said.

“When he played U16s, that’s how tall he was.

“Just leave the kid alone, he’s worked so hard.”

I don't think anyone here is hating. You are allowed to question his age and not hate him as a player or wish him well.

Some of you Anons are so simple minded.

How does he get a passport with fake information? Somebody would have to be coughing up some serious dollars to get that forged, or even a legit one without the correct paperwork. The government would have surely had his name in the system, with his potential age when he moved over.

Unless their is another image the only one from the 2010 year book I can see is class portraits which is simply head and shoulders, their is absolutely no way you can tell height from that

Think the whole NBA issue won't matter at all if it is infact true he's older than he says, BUT did he ever represent Australia at junior national level, if he did then FIBA may have something to say about it.

Maybe we got it backwards and he lied about his age to graduate from school earlier??

Why would you put someone who's reportedly struggling with English into a class that was much older than him if that was the case ( which is what was is being inferred ... It was an English class graduation NOT a high school graduation. )
And why has the school now removed the photos from website

#ThonMaker Expired Passport. Issued by Australian Government Nov 30 2009. Pictured: 12 y/o #Thon (DOB: Feb 25 1997) pic.twitter.com/ePRrmqa6x9

— Sky Smith (@Sky_Smith_) June 29, 2016

All this passport proves is that the Australia Government accepted the proof provided to them.

I don't think anyone online has questioned the validity of his actual passport. It's more the documents that are supplied to get such passport.

I find it odd that this passport photo emerges now and is the only piece of "evidence" used to refute claims he's not 19.

MakerGate is definitely interesting.

The Many Makers theory doing on the rounds online also seems crazy and plausible at the same time!

the passport was issued when he was 12yrs and in WA. He surfaced in Sydney a few yrs later and played u16s at a club.
Kids normally only get a passport when they are about to travel OS. Did thon go OS with this passport?

He never played in a registered comp in Perth which i find unusual for a talented player. He "didnt" play reps in Sydney metro, which again is unusual for a talented player. He has gone to the USA school system as an "inexperienced player" with no rep playing experience or coaching other than from his manager.

With all the circumstancial evidence, it would appear his manager has done an outstanding job "looking after him" at no cost for 5-6yrs and then securing a NBA contract.Is it a conspiracy, or legit????????

So somebody faked his DOB to get a passport saying he was 12 in 2009, then he 'graduated' high school in 2010? Nobody sees a problem with this conspiracy theory?

agree with cram, cannot be 12yrs in 2009 and graduate high school in 2010

Ignore the conspiracy theorists he's 19 as per the article I posted above.

With my Tinfoil hat securely on.

Maybe someone put the plans in motion to reduce his age in 2009.

Why would a High School need someones passport.

It's still questionable to me.

You can be enrolled at a high school under certain documents, but whilst at high school you can still have details changed, while not informing your high school.

The problem is - unless Maker comes out and admits his true age then we'll most likely never know for sure.

If there has been some dodgy changing of birth dates, then I applaud whoever did it. If they had done a worse job then this might be all over already.

At the end of the day what matters is how talented/successful he is in the NBA - if he's not legit 19 but he does damn well then the age is somewhat irrelevant isn't it?

The flair up is if he doesn't do well then there will be calls of BS and deception

All the conspiracy theorists have been claiming that the change was done when he moved from Perth. Either in 2010, or 2011. Yet here we have his passport issued in 2009???
Now this actually fits with what I read years back, that he was already in Smith's care in 2010.

But if there was another Thon Maker, who attended Aranmore, surely somebody can find him?

i would suggest he was with smith in 2009 when the passport was issued stating he was 12yrs.

He maybe forgot to put him back to primary school so he would not appear in high school graduation yr books in 2010. (aged 16-18yrs)?

He actually played div 2 reps for St George when he was in Sydney in U/16's I believe but never played State as his mentor believed that he was discriminated against by BNSW and the same went for a number of the other Sudanese players he was in control of.

He would tend to keep them away from State trials.

But if there was another Thon Maker, who attended Aranmore, surely somebody can find him?

Yeah you'd think if the book wasn't photoshopped that they'd be able to find the "other" Thon Maker.

In today's society in Australia, i'd say it's bloody hard for someone to do high school and then do it again as if he "never existed". Surely there'd be a hundred people ready to say "lol I went to HS with him". If it's a different Thon Maker, you'd think there's a hundred people saying "nah different guy" or even easily find the doppelganger.

It's a bizarre situation that's for sure.

There was no discrimination going on against Maker by bnsw while he was playing reps in sydney. Smith just wanted totally control of him not allowing to be coached by
someone else.

Smith intentionally put Maker on div 2 rep teams so he look like a great player and to keep him under the radar. He didnt allow him to attend state trial as well.

There was a long term plan for Maker at all cost hence why there is alot question about his true age!

#590327
If you have a look at the Kangaroo Photos website. Go to Basketball, 2011, under 16 Australian Championships in Kilsyth, NSW Metro Men and have a look. He most certainly played. Plenty of photos there.

First law job was in a practice that did work for the (at the time) Department of Immigration and Citizenship. Also work in international sports industry and one of my roles is the prevention of sporting fraud.

- refugee kids in the late 2000s that came to Australia without documents or a known birthdate would normally receive a passport saying 0/0/year

- it's very difficult to obtain an Australian passport with documents that appear illegitimate - - in 2009 I actually worked on a case where a basketball player of very similar descent to Thon (in Sydney) requested the government to change the date of birth in his passport (making him 4 years younger, from 23 to 19), principally because he had been advised by a US college! he produced a bunch of dodgy looking documents which were simply not accepted


- if Thon had a passport in 2009, that means he was in Australia for AT LEAST 3 years prior because he would have first come on a protection visa


- the 'bone density' test if it is the same thing we use is actually an 'MRI test' - study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4166061/ - only works on 16 year old males. for the non-scientific, basically a bone in your wrist fuses fully at 16 years of age. it is thus easy to detect for u16 tournaments only.

Surely these so called "guardians" that only look after these "athletes" are the ones that need investigating, the athletes themselves are the ones being used.