Anonymous
Years ago

Cairns no finals...WHAT HAPPENED?

Grand finalist last year with the same team, but wilbekin, added wortho, is he the reason as I bet he played more minutes than anyone else this season


Thoughts?

Topic #38948 | Report this topic


koberulz  
Years ago

You're right, the loss of Wilbekin is pretty minor.

Reply #576588 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

1-12 on the road. If they were 3-10 they'd be in the box seat for finals.

Reply #576589 | Report this post


skull  
Years ago

besides the serious upgrade of the rest of the league....its hard to play pro ball without any $$

Reply #576591 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I'm not sure the upgrade was that serious, Melbourne, Perth and Illawarra have gotten better, while NZ, Sydney, Cairns and Adelaide have all gone backwards to a degree. Townsville have been at a similar level (although not consistently, great one day, terrible the next, somewhere in between the next).

Re Cairns, losing a stud defensive PG like Wilbekin is a massive loss given the limitations of their bigs defending ball screens. Wilbekin's leadership offensively is also a big loss, even if he wasn't a great scorer.

Reply #576593 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Scott Wilbekin is what didn't happen in a very tight cut throat season. Not hard to work out that although Starks is serviceable he is not Wilbekin who was a giant killer.

Reply #576595 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Yep, take out an NBL first-team PG who could close the game at both ends, insert a talented but inconsistent 6'1 scoring guard, and the Taipans go from 12-3 in games decided by 10 points or less to 9-8.

Reply #576601 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

They went from having a fringe NBA guy in Wilbekin to a guy in Starks who was playing in Italy's Div 2 league.

Throw in the big upgrade in talent by Melb, Perth and the Hawks and it's looking likely both of last seasons GF teams will miss the playoffs!

Reply #576612 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

What paul said, disgraceful away record.

Wortho would be pretty close to Cairns' MVP, I don't think he's the problem.

Loughton and Trigger looking past it, unfortunately they are both under contract for next year so could be another ordinary year for CNS next season.

Reply #576616 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

1. Team built around Wilbekin only for him to pull the plug at late notice.
2. Nobody able to step up and inspire everyone when they hit the wall mid-Q3.
3. Gliddon good but not the captain they need. Adding Wortho compounded this.
4. No pre-season with Starks, took him about 4-5 weeks to fit into the system, and then dropped out again with his hammy problems. Playing 1 month Bruce/Heuir as PGs was never going to go well.
5. Loughton finally past it.
6. Trigger and Burston not far behind
7. Tory Craig great but still inconsistent.

Reply #576619 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

From memory:
Fearney has 2 more years on his contract. Think Gordie's was just 1?

Loughton +2 years
Weigh: +2 more years
Gliddon: +2 years w/ Euro-out
Trigger: +1 year
Burston: Free Agent?
Bruce: ??
Wortho: +1 year
Craig: Free Agent?
Starks: Free Agent?
Heuir: ??


Reply #576621 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

Burston is a free agent and from what i hear it will be unlikely for CNS to re-sign him due to the length of the other big guys' contracts. Ironic because out of him, Trigger and Loughton I'd rather have Burston for 2 more years than the others.

What happens if a player retires, I presume they forfeit the remainder of their contract? Loughton should think seriously about it.

Reply #576623 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

OP has answered their own question. Lost Wilbekin and gained Wortho.
As far as I can tell, now days Worthington is a death sentence for any team he joins...

My understanding is that Cairns operates on a tight budget.
Hence why you've got a budget import in Craig.
Wilbekin was a find and a half. He was a fantastic on-court leader for that team last season.
Even teams with money to spend often struggle to replace star imports, it must be that much harder for Cairns.

Reply #576628 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

The other thing I recall about Cairns from last season, was that they had great depth. Plenty of contribution from the bench, and your coach used it well. This year, with Craig starting, the bench is mediocre at best.

Reply #576630 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Craig's only been starting for the past couple of weeks.

Reply #576634 | Report this post


proud  
Years ago

Loughton was absolutely dreadful, Trigger was decent in some games but they don't feed him enough when he is making his shots.

Gliddon still inconsistent offensively!

Team struggled to nail 3s all season long

Couldn't win on the road

Starks vs Adelaide was their first platter to score 20 points all season... They have no go to player

Interesting to see if they try and get Nathan Jawai or even Jeromie Hill who I think is from Cairns.

They are still way too defensively minded and games like the last home game vs Wildcats was absolutely awful viewing spectacle.

Good luck to them and hopefully Gordie can make more of an impact for them in 2016/17

Reply #576635 | Report this post


Indominous-Rex  
Years ago

Jeromie Hill is on a 3yr deal with Sydney

Reply #576637 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Time for a coaching staff change and some fresh blood within the team.

Laughton & trigger have 1 more year each on good coin so they clog up the salary cap for us!

Need to hand the keys to team across to Gliddon & pair him with a gun import to run the team next year together with new coaching voice & game plan could really turn us around quickly

Reply #576638 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

No go-to player. Needed one of the imports to be that guy.

Are Loughton and Tragardh truly done or just disregarded because Fearne has preferred defensive options in Wortho and Burston? They should try to find themselves a new opportunity.

Reply #576646 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Cairns missed the playoffs in 2014 and with mostly the same team won the minor premiership in 2015, so some subtle changes are probably all that's needed, and with the way Fearne likes to play a defensive PG who can run an offence and run late-clock P&Rs is the most important piece.

Reply #576650 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Hard to replace/lose players of Wilbekin, Randle and Cedric Jackson. Each of those teams have gone backwards when they have lost the above player.

Cairns lost Wilbekin and went from GF to mediocre just as NZ did when they lost Ced Jackson and Adelaide, well, we all know not much is happening there without Randle.

Reply #576651 | Report this post


Tom  
Years ago

The best way to win in the NBL is to have a superstar and 2 or 3 good players to support him. Without a go to guy you not win many games.
Adelaide: Randle
Brisbane: Motum
Cairns: Wilbekin
Melbourne: Goulding
NZ: Webster
Perth: Ennis
Townsville: ???
Illawarra: Lisch
Sydney: Childress

Reply #576660 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Childress was a liability.

Reply #576661 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

some you win, some you lose... Starks doesn't hurt his shoulder before game 1, Weigh doesn't miss 7 games, Trigger doesn't get restricted minutes because of a leg injury, less condensed traveling.... what if... what if... sometimes shit just happens. And sometimes you can't explain the shit that is happening, like our 3pt %.

The league got much better and we struggled to replicate last years form without a guy the quality of Wilbekin. Starks tried, but especially on D, he's just not the same kind of player. He's got his upsides, but we didn't see them consistently enough, to the extent that looked the best with Bruce and Gliddon on the court at the same time.

Still, while we couldn't nail those 50/50 road games like we did last year, we were great defending the home court (and the crowds were excellent despite the 6.30 tipoff and mid week games) plus we'll finish above Townsville.... so the season isn't a complete bust.

Reply #576678 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wilbekin out. Worthington in.

Worthington was a subtraction by addition.

Taipans didn't need a player like him.

Also the rest of the players who have been up there long term are too chillaxed. They don't have the fire. Humidity effect? I don't know.

Reply #576719 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

haha Worthington was a subtraction? he was consistently one of the best performers... but don't let facts get in the way of your haterism....

Reply #576786 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Quite right. Something about Wortho brings out the crazy in people here as this thread shows. Mostly butthurt WA fans I am guessing because he is a WA boy who never played for the Cats, plus he has spent a career getting the better of Redhage.

Reply #576788 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

The Wortho hate is interesting. He had a really solid year even though his outside shot wasn't falling, his defence and passing were excellent. Last season he was very good for Melbourne, especially the first 2/3 of the year.

Reply #576789 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

My simple view from the outside after only watching a few games, on player personnel:

Wortho was solid this season and consistently one of Cairns' best. He’s the classic jack of all trades- he’s good at virtually every area of the game without being great at any one thing, and he continued that this season (except his three ball). But because Loughton dropped away and Trigger and Burston were OK without being spectacular, the overall frontcourt play barely improved.

Starks was the main issue. Maybe it’s unfair, because his best was very good (eg: The game in Adelaide) and his play was actually at a higher level than I feared after reading his modest stats from Italian Div 2. But at the end of the day, there was a substantial drop off in guard play after having Wilbekin last season.

And- as has been mentioned- the league got stronger. Cairns were minor premiers but they weren’t head and shoulders above- apart from very early last season when they started really well. Other teams made significant improvements to their teams, and in some cases their teams and coaches.

Reply #576791 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Thats not entirely true- just thinking about it, I did actually watch Cairns quite a number of times this season.

Reply #576793 | Report this post


"plus he has spent a career getting the better of Redhage."

Please show your working out.

Reply #576795 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

Don't underestimate the loss of Mick D in the equation. No disrespect to Geordie but Mick seemed very effective with both the players and Fearne.

Reply #576809 | Report this post


Ricky  
Years ago

"plus he has spent a career getting the better of Redhage."

Please show your working out.


LOL

Reply #576810 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So criticism of Wortho becomes criticism of Wildcats fans. Wow this forum is really something, everything ends up being put back on Perth even if totally unrelated.

Reply #576811 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What happened? Wortho didn't improve the Taipans. simples

Reply #576813 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

'simples' an apt description of most anon comments..

I get the Wortho hate, I do, I was once a hyperbolic hater..... but he's been good for us. Anyone who has watched all our games would have seen that.

LV i think your analysis is pretty spot on.

Reply #576816 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Okay so who is to blame for no finals? Seems like the culture up north amongst both fans and club is to be chilled despite a horrible season.

Reply #576818 | Report this post


Like I said in previous post, Wortho's recent history with his chosen teams is poor, despite whatever numbers he puts up. At some point you have to question why teams falter when he signs on, particularly if he is in a leadership role.

Good player, not a leader.

Reply #576821 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes Chalmers I am trying to get Podge to address that point in the Breakers vs Taipans thread. Check it out. He ignored the trend you mentioned and I also backed up by saying I noticed it and he replied by picking on a side issue instead re: money.

Reply #576825 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I'm not sure Cairns faltered when he signed on. They made the GF last year, but missed the playoffs the three seasons before that.

Fearne's system requires tempo control at both ends, not necessarily slowing it down, but slowing the opposition down.

When the PG-C combo was Ubaka-Crosswhite and Wilson-Crosswhite they could achieve both those things through their PG play and their ball-screen defence. When Crosswhite left and it was Wilson-Tragardh they couldn't.

With Wilbekin-Burston they again had a capable combo in those areas, but Starks-Burston wasn't up to the level needed at either end.

Reply #576826 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ok paul that may be the Xs and Os explanation but what about from a culture side of things. That is what we are getting at.

Reply #576827 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Culture comes down to a whole lot more than one player.

No one was talking about Wortho and "culture" when he was in successful teams in Sydney and South Dragons.

Reply #576830 | Report this post


The fact that he is known for "winning" his personal battles with Redhage, while Redhage doesn't give a shit about him, says it all

Reply #576831 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

Anon, get on the meds you are not making any sense....

Reply #576834 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

Paul - spot on. I haven't got the stats in front of me but last time i looked Bruce's def eff was far better than Starks when he was put in the starting 5.

Reply #576835 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Wortho and Redhage are both A class nigglers on court, who constantly toe the line between crafty and dirty.

Redhage pulls more dirty moves than Wortho, but Wortho's temper is slightly hotter than Redhage’s so he loses it more often.

Reply #576836 | Report this post


Completely not the point I was making, LV.

Reply #576837 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

The point you were making was complete and utter bullshit, and I wasn't even trying to reply to it- it was just one eyed Perth nonsense that wasn't worthy of more than the past 15 seconds Ive spent writing this post.

Reply #576839 | Report this post


So you just added in a random comparison between Redhage and Wortho, but not in response to my post? Ok then.

Reply #576840 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

I wasn't directly responding to your point, no. I was just giving a general view (non biased, unlike yours) in response to numerous comments in this thread that have mentioned the Wortho/Redhage thing.

Reply #576841 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Neutral, I should say.

You're not necessarily "biased" but you are a Redhage fan boy from way back. I don't have any skin in the game, so to speak.

Reply #576843 | Report this post


"...in response to numerous comments in this thread that have mentioned the Wortho/Redhage thing."

Only one other person has mentioned it. I responded and asked them to elaborate. Someone else quoted both of those comments and added "LOL".

Why do you bother with this crap?



Reply #576847 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

I skimmed- I saw at least 3 or 4 times that the Wortho and Redhage thing had been mentioned, and I chose to respond.

If you don't want to read my crap opinions, feel free to ignore them, just as I can chose to ignore your occasional Pro Perth Rubbish.

Reply #576849 | Report this post


snooch  
Years ago

Wortho has had a decent year personally but it's a fair question to ask whether he's had a positive impact on the team/his teammates. From what I've heard there's been some tension between him and some others.

Reply #576881 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Occasional Perth rubbish? LV work out who the retard is.

Reply #576882 | Report this post


Snooch, it sounds like you just wrote his exit interview from his last four clubs!

Reply #576884 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

snooch I haven't heard that, in fact I've heard nothing but positives about his off court influence.

Don't forget that he's got long term friendships with a number of current Taipan players.

Reply #576899 | Report this post


I heard he was the one who encouraged Trigger to go with his latest hairstyle.

Reply #576901 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

That's grounds for dismissal, surely?

Reply #576904 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

hahaha that might be grounds for deportation to Naru!

Reply #576910 | Report this post


snooch  
Years ago

Yeah I can't vouch for how true it is, just what I've heard from a couple of people who should know.

Reply #576911 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

I'll try and get the inside scoop on Wortho from my sources this week.

I'm with Podge - paul and LV have made fairly sound arguments to the Taipans demise.

And as much as he's the 'heart and soul' of the club (perceived or otherwise), Loughton is not contributing on the court at both ends.

Reply #576941 | Report this post


miracle.touch  
Years ago

The way I see it, the big losses are Wilbekin & Downer.

For reasons already explained, Wilbekin was a once in a decade import for a low budget team like the Taipans. Starks is a great player, but his strengths are in transition (read the Downtownball.net interview with Rob Beveridge) which Fearne seems to dislike with a passion.

I also wonder if Gordie's similar style has led to Fearne regressing. He seems to have slipped back into more negative ways that he relied on with previous teams of lesser talents. He has some tremendously talented offensive players at his disposal, but instead of utilising them for their strengths, continues to hold them back within his strict offensive structure. It's not the first time he has brought in a player and tried to make them play a style that isn't their strength or a position they're not accustomed to.

I think there's an imbalance with the lineup as well, as some others have already alluded to, which gets exposed against some teams more than others.

I also have real concerns about the shooting %, particularly from 3pt. Shooting is such a confidence thing, and when players are frustrated with court time, restrictive systems, internal conflict etc. shooting suffers.

Reply #577024 | Report this post


Twinkletoes  
Years ago

You make some good points @miracle.touch

Reply #577047 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

Disagree about the strict offensive structure Wilson, imports especially have a green light to take a shot if it's there - even if it's early. It's just got to be a good shot not jacking up nonsense.
Sure there is a structure and a lot of time we like to move the ball around to get the best shot. We've come a long way since the grind offensive back in 2011. Have a look at our pace stats and shoots taken, the evidence is there.

Pushing the offensive and getting out into transition is 100% part of the system, it wouldn't surprise me if Fearne ended up with a rotator cuff issue for the numbers of times he swings his arm around urging the players to push it after a O rebound.

Starks' issue wasn't offensive (after his shoulder injury improved anyways), it was defensive. Which is why in some cases Bruce got time that you'd normally expect the import to get. Part of me thinks that, with a couple of extra pieces to compliment his skills/cover his deficiencies, he would be an interesting prospect to bring back next year.

3% was insane..... wasn't because of a lack of practice either, thru the season I saw more than a couple of the guys putting in extra work.. Confidence is a hell of a think.

I'm not sure Geodie will be here next season, he came up here because he is close friends with Fearne and he wanted to still coach in the NBL. Wouldn't surprise me if Sydney/Perth/Brisbane or NZ (assistant) picked him up.

For the life of me i can't understand why Sydney didnt hire Micky D........ Towel guy is a joke.........

The question i have is: next season to we run with Bruce and Gilldon as starters and spend out import $$ on a big man and bringing Craig back?

Reply #577053 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

No. Bruce is a reserve at this point, if you want two frontcourt imports youll need to sign another good Aussie guard. Of course, maybe they'll be allowed three imports?

Reply #577065 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

that's what the rumor is (i think Boti wrote about it a couple of months ago, along with Asia players as locals).

If that happens it'll be interesting to see how the police a cap to keep the league 'even'.

Reply #577069 | Report this post


snooch  
Years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if another team throws some cash at Bruce to try and lure him away from Cairns next year. He improved markedly this season.

Reply #577087 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Culture comes down to a whole lot more than one player.

No one was talking about Wortho and "culture" when he was in successful teams in Sydney and South Dragons."

I already mentioned he was fine with Goorjian on his back. Funny those are the two clubs Goorgian coached him at. Other than those two look at the results.

Reply #577098 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Wortho has had a decent year personally but it's a fair question to ask whether he's had a positive impact on the team/his teammates. From what I've heard there's been some tension between him and some others."

Exactly. Yet according to most outside of you, me, and Chalmers we aren't allowed to question it.

Reply #577100 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

You can question all you want Anon, I know there isn't an issue at the Taipans with Wortho. I can't speak for his other clubs because i wasn't there. But by all means hating hate kiddo, but hate hard with style like Supernintendo.

Snooch - I think Brucey has a 2nd year on his contract? but i'm not 100%

Reply #577105 | Report this post


snooch  
Years ago

Nope. Free agent according to this.

The Cairns Taipans have retained point guard Shaun Bruce on a one-year deal.

http://www.nbl.com.au/nbl-team-news/taipans-retain-point-guard-shaun-bruce/

Reply #577107 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

rodger that Snooch, thanks for the link.

He'd be close to the top of my retention list. Hopefully we can match what gets thrown his way.

Reply #577110 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I didn't realise an observation (also shared by a couple of others on here) equates to be a hater.

Reply #577112 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

being

Reply #577113 | Report this post


kingpodge  
Years ago

You are indeed many things Anon...... many things....

Reply #577115 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Culture questions don't necessary arise purely because of conflict. As an example you can get along with your fellow teammates and coaches fine but have a too laid back "she'll be right" attitude which is not conducive to winning.

Reply #577117 | Report this post


miracle.touch  
Years ago

Well, whether there's conflict there or not, it's not to the same level that the Breakers are dealing with, but they're still in the box seat for the finals.

Reply #577180 | Report this post


snooch  
Years ago

As much as I agree re Starks, I think Loughton's game falling off a cliff has played a big part too.

Not sure about him being heart and soul of the club - I'm not arguing he isn't, he's probably a great lockeroom guy - but he's infuriating to watch. Why a guy who's shooting under 30% on the season from three continues to just jack them up time after time is beyond me.

You'd hope him being signed for another 2 years doesn't hamstring the club re recruiting - I agree with whoever said they'd prefer Burston, he was such a crucial part of that team particularly in the first half of the season and can do so many more things in the post that Loughton can't/won't.

Reply #577195 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

I don't know Wortho, never met the guy, so can only refer to the rumours that he has an attitude problem.
He has skill that is undeniable, and he is now on his 5~6th NBL club. Whenever he moves on, its never cos he's not a good player, and always rumoured to be personality related.

Redhage, after being deemed not up to import quality by NZ, has stuck with Perth for over 10 years. Apart from the haters who claim he flops too much, I've never heard a bad word said.

Again, only rumours, but the notion that Wortho still feels he has an axe to grind with Perth is disappointing.

Back on topic, apart from the Kings there have been no real easybeats this season. It's a reasonably competitive league, and Cairns have just fallen a bit behind.

Reply #577196 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

another turd like performance from the boys in orange tonight

Reply #577199 | Report this post




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