Will they be showing his greatest flops highlight reel?

You spelt Shawn wrong :P

Hopefully he can have a big game tonight, well overdue for one.

aww crap I did too. Swapped out my cousins first name for his name.

Damn.

Can i change the topic of something I created?

you could change the topic title

Pretty good considering he was cut by the Breakers half way into his first season. Not often imports can be cut after a handful of games and actually make a career in the NBL after.

Divisive?
Because fuckwits with no life would rather hate on Perth than support their own team?
Is that divisive, or merely sorting the wheat from the chaff?

Redhage has become one of the greatest NBL players off the past decade.
(Obviously we have seen better players, some much better, but most have not stayed around.)
If people can't see past the colour of a singlet and acknowledge that, then I'm not sure their opinion counts for much.

Probs want to ease up calling people fuckwits champ. Redhage has not been known for playing in the true spirit of the game over the years, good luck to him for getting paid for 350 games worth, but there has been too many that have come before him, and many more that will come after him that fans will and have enjoyed, no matter what singlet they wear.

natwhereyouat - re the being dropped and then picked up and going on to a successful career. Dusty Rychart is the only other one who came to mind. Both were terrific players and got championships, but I think Redhage has achieved a bit more. Nice that they both naturalised as well. Australia's gain.

Adam Ballinger was in that cut then resurrected boat too.

I much preferred watching Balls play than Redhage.

"Probs want to ease up calling people fuckwits champ. "

Whilst a tad offensive, Dazz's description is quite appropriate, particularly in this forum.

Take Game 3 of the 2013/14 Grand Final, people howling about a Redhage flop, all the while forgetting its 36'er inability to defend, make plays (Joey's words) and rebound that caused a 34 point thrashing.

Even then the flop didn't earn Redhage or the Cats any advantage, Rhys Carter did that by punching Redhage, which is odd because he did more for the Wildcats in one game than he did in one season as a Wildcat.

Redhage has annoying traits yes, but don't let that detract from what is quite a remarkable career, especially when you consider the return from the horrible hip injury suffered in Adelaide.

None of which changes the fact that Redhage is indeed a divisive character in the NBL.
Not sure of the reason for the objection. It's pretty obviously true. That doesn't take away from what he has accomplished.

Doesn't the fact that there's an argument about whether or not he's divisive simply prove that he is?

Exactly

Marcus Camby your a tad offensive... thanks for the input though. Redhage is a Wildcat great, but not in that top tier NBL great discussion for mine.

+1

I've found generally in sports that sometimes fans will take the criticism to a whole new level based on how good the player is.

Redhage is a flopper no doubt. I think the fact that opposition fans hate him so much is a testament to the fact that he is a very good player and has been over the years (though I don't support what he has done).

Would they hate as much if he was an average player who wasn't part of such a successful team like Perth? Probably not.

All Black legend Richie McCaw comes to mind - arguably the best to ever play the game. Opposition fans were using anything and everything to try and find a way to label him as dirty - in reality they were mad that he played 14 years for the All Blacks and won 131/148 international games as part of the one of the greatest teams in the history of sport.

Fans hate good players. Non-Warriors fans probably hate Curry more than a player like Barbosa..

Spot on MACDUB, when some fans see a guy regularly beating their team doing things they don't believe are 100% in the spirit of the game the hate can develop pretty quickly! Redhage's story is a great one, full credit to him.

Plus the fact that he is a boring stat getter. Nothing about his game is exciting never has been. He is dirty, I get the point but personally not applicable to Redhage. I hated Gaze, Heal Copeland and Amazing Grace, all because they were all so damn good and when they retired i was spewing. But Redhage will not be missed, not from me, so boring the way he goes about it.

Just what is a "boring stat getter"? Which stats column do you get bored by most?

In 2008 he scored 22.9 @ 52.9 FG%, 36.8% 3P% and 80% FT% whilst getting 8 RPG.

Can you tell the forum which part of these is tedious to you?

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/team_info.cgi?action=PSTATS&pID=190396256&client=0-189-12314-119318-369909

Granted Redhage is no Atkinson, Trimmingham or Bennett Davison, but he does have his particular set of skills.

I often shake my head at how often those off-foot leaners / floaters go in. Despite lacking in mad hops, handles and height, he still carved out a good career scoring at a decent clip (except the last 2 seasons).

Not saying he is spectacular, but far from boring.

I really enjoy watching him play. Has incredible fitness (the Wildcats fitness guy a few years ago said he was comparable to an elite triathlete), an incredible array of unorthodox shots and is a fierce competitor.

What I really like about him is his first few years he couldnt defend or shoot threes, but he really worked on those areas and turned them into strengths.

Deserves to be mentioned alongside names like Ellis, Crawford, Fisher, Grace, Vlahov, Lisch and Martin.

Unless he is carrying a repairable injury, I'm starting to worry just how much longer he can stick around, as his production has really fallen away. Whilst we may have hoped that Wagstaff would eventually overtake him, Redhage has simply fallen behind.
I record that if the Cats can take another 'ship this season, Redhage may well call time.

Deserves to be mentioned alongside names like Ellis, Crawford, Fisher, Grace, Vlahov, Lisch and Martin.

He is like Anstey, MVP's title winners and all the good stuff but just boring performers. I dislike them because they dont play a great style of basketball. As for the likes of Gaze, Heal Copeland etc etc they were easy to hate because they were so damn good and so damn effective and did it with dunks emotion and attitude. Redhage is dull. But yes granted he has been very effective, and is a winner, just not exciting and flops too much.

"Not sure Lisch and Martin really belong on that list."

I have no doubt they do, but often people have trouble appreciating the present until it is the distant past. The selectors of the Wildcats' 30 year team certainly believed Lisch belongs.

"Gaze, Heal"..."did it with dunks emotion and attitude".

Too funny. Didn't Gaze and Heal have one career dunk between them?

All the others you listed were Wildcats for a decade or more each. Lisch played four seasons, he definitely doesn't belong. Martin is closer.

I didn't list them just for their longevity.

Given Lisch is a starter on the Wildcats' 30 year team I'm pretty comfortable putting him there - title winner, GF MVP, multiple club MVP, league MVP. Not too many Wildcats can claim that list even in a decade.

Paul, really, read between the lines the likes of Copeland, Crawford for dunks Mr technical. You get my drift, Heal was hated for example for giving the finger to the Adelaide crowd, but wow was it a cool memorable moment.

paul's list consisted entirely of decade-long Wildcats who went on to have their jerseys retired. That's not a list Lisch will ever belong on.

If the initial list had included Pinder, Feaster, Harvey, etc. I'd feel differently about including Martin and Lisch, but if you're going to rattle off the list of retired jerseys the standard you're implying is a bit different.

Koberulz, you've just created your own criteria for my list of Wildcats greats - I didn't say they had to be there for a decade or have their jersey retired. It just happens many of the greats have.

If you look in almost any industry around the world, people don't stay in the one job nearly as long as they did in the 80s and 90s, pro sport is no different.

FWIW this era is on track to be close to if not as successful as the Grace, Fisher, Vlahov etc era, and the players who were key parts of that will be recognised as all-time greats.

Lisch with multiple club MVPs, GF MVP, league MVP and a spot on the Wildcats' 30 year team will always be considered one of the greats despite a relatively short stint, just like Dwayne McClain at Sydney or Chris Anstey at the Tigers.

Damian Martin as a two-time title winner (probably more before he's done), club captain, five-time DPOY is a lock to have his jersey retired and be considered one of the Wildcats' greats.

If Lisch plays eight or nine years for Illawarra, winning an MVP or two and a couple of titles, his stint in Perth is going to be nothing more than a footnote. It would be absurd to retire his jersey here.

You solely listed a group of guys who deservingly had their jerseys retired after a decade or more in Perth, in the context of judging Redhage, who should have his jersey retired after over a decade in Perth. It's pretty fair to see longevity as a relevant variable.

Lisch is a beast

"As for the likes of Gaze, Heal Copeland etc etc they were easy to hate because they were so damn good and so damn effective and did it with dunks emotion and attitude."

OK...so the only attribute making one eligible to be hated is being 'so damn good'.

Would this then mean you hated Al Green, Mark Davis, Brett Maher, Darnell Mee and Martin Cattalini? Furthermore currently hate Jerome Randle?

"It's pretty fair to see longevity as a relevant variable."

Relevant yes, exclusive no.

Had Lisch not won multiple club MVPs, league MVP, GF MVP and a starting spot on the Wildcats 30 year team I would agree his lack of longevity counts against him. Instead, wth how much he achieved, it just emphasises how good he was.

His time at Perth will never be a footnote, just as Scott Fisher is one of the Giants' all-time greats even with what he achieved in Perth afterwards.

I thought Gaze was a bit of a "protected species" but you couldn't deny what a great player he was. Heal was a bit of a dick, but still an extremely good player. Others were just great players.
Randle is clearly the best offensive player in the league, nothing but respect there.

The reason I dislike it when I see players like Goulding and Ogilvy flop and scab, is because they are extremely good players and I think the flopping etc diminishes them and the game. It certainly doesn't lead me to "hate" them.
I have nothing but respect for Childress, despite his unfortunate introduction to Perth.

There have been a few players I despised in the past. Ray Gordon was a talentless wanker, and Sibley was a thug. I think the closest I came to "hate" recently was over Conklin's behaviour.

I made a flopping thread earlier this season, in which I described a blatant (retaliatory) flop by Redhage as cringeworthy, but I don't think he flops as often as many seem to think.
Possibly because he now spends less time in the 4 spot playing against stronger opponents.

Nope Camby only applies to opposition players. Some guys you hate because they are so good you wish you had them on your team, some guys although effective no matter what you wouldn't want them on your team because for various reasons such as boring to watch etc just a fans opinion. Thanks for asking for me to clarify to the extreme though.

paul, if you were Perth would you retire Lisch's number?

"Nope Camby only applies to opposition players. "

So Redhage is no different from any other non-Adelaide good / great / top nothc / player.

Why didn't you just come out and say I hate Shawn, Andrew, Lanard, Shane and Ricky because they didn't wear Sixer Red (or blue depending on era)?

Why dont you just focus on your own support of Mart Rat and Ebe... All those guys you mentioned BAR Redhage were fun to watch when they weren't playing against my team, unlike Redhage who has always been a bore imo. Some as a fan you hate because you want them on your team, some you just dislike everything about them and wouldnt want them around because they arent fun to watch. Want to continue this... or move on to the next thing.

Lisch is a great player, and was when he played for us. That said, when considering greatness AND longevity, you also need to remember that whilst Perth has had its fair share of Forwards and PGs, there aren't that many SG/OG in contention for an all-star team. That is perhaps best demonstrated by naming Harvey on the bench in that same team.
Others in contention would be TT (by virtue of his longevity and 2 'ships), Lichti (who like Lisch only played 4 seasons), Stewart, and PC. Lisch is easily the standout in that crowd.
Personally, if naming my all-star 5, I would have bother Grace and Ellis, but that is somewhat dishonest as both played almost exclusively at PG.
We should also not overlook that when naming him they were probably hopefull that he would stick around.

Personally, if naming my all-star 5, I would have bother Grace and Ellis, but that is somewhat dishonest as both played almost exclusively at PG.

As I said, personally I would have them BOTH in my starting five.
NB: IIRC Ellis was on the bench by 92, I'd have to go back to some of my old videos to see how much they played side by side.
Point is that I agree that Lisch will not have his singlet retired by Perth, (unless something changes and he returns) and he does not belong on the same list as Crawford, Grace, Ellis, et al.
Simply that if you name a starting 5 based on strict constraints, required a dedicated SG (as is usually the case when naming a 5) then Lisch is easily the best choice of a limited bunch.