Anonymous
Years ago
Has the conflict of interest with LK owning Melbourne and also the league finally come to a head? Totally inexplicable calls to finish that game.
At first it looked like call wasn't even going to stand because the foul on Goulding was clearly after the one on pledger. Then it somehow turns into an unsportsmanlike??
Ingles13
Years ago
Home cooking this week for Melbourne Adelaide and Perth
Definitely looks like it. That was the worse call I've ever seen, made after the other foul was called, webster not smart, goulding played him and flopped. smh
Kobe24
Years ago
They are pretty damn talented, in this one the refs got themselves way out of their depth and didn't know how to recover. But as Adelaide fan I dont think its more than the moment screwing the refs thinking.
jeff
Years ago
i am not a referee so correct me if I am wrong isn't it a USF because its a dead ball situation at the end of the game
Mike
Years ago
In addition to all of the other calls (unsportsmanlike feather duster), why wasn't a violation called on Majok on the last missed foul shot by Holt- when he walked into the rebounding area from behind the three point line.
Would have allowed Breakers to move the ball forward on a time out.
Luuuc
Years ago
jeff it may have technically been a dead ball situation, but considering the refs had to go to frame-by-frame video to determine which foul even happened first, anyone with any common sense would surely judge that for all intents & purposes, the fouls were simultaneous and should have just been regular fouls that cancelled each other out.
Kobe24
Years ago
Knew it was going to be an odd game when the shot clock didn't work, twighlight zone stuff.
wow NZ totally ripped off by the unsportsmanlike call (refs let the players decide game).
Goulding milking the push off foul.
Violation on free throw at the end.
Refs if you are going to try to be technical on one decision, well be technical on the lane violation.
That is as good as getting robbed as I have seen.
Luuuc
Years ago
My previous post of course assumes that Webster fouled Goulding.
Could have just as easily been a tech against Goulding for his massive flop.
Melbourne a great team playing at home, don't think they have the grittiness to take games on the road.
You can clearly here the refs asking each other if the fouls cancel each other out, that would mean the Melb had to foul again. I think that had a huge part to play in the refs calling an USF
Inject Vukona and Wesley into that team and you have the best and most well rounded team.
Breakers have the title, bookmark this.
Watched the replay why are the refs deliberately covering their microphones??? NBL PLEASE explain???
Was deg home cooking. Goulding going to rio now.....as part of the diving team. Shocking call
Kobe24
Years ago
Bookmarked a random anon said Breakers to win the title haha Interesting if it was a Nz ref that made the call.
he has always been a terrible call on these, just ask adelaide how much they like dislike his reffing.
That was me Kobe24.
Still have Vukona and Wesley to come back and only lost on a terrible USF in Melbourne.
And a terrible foul on Charles Jackson in the last leading him to foul out.
Kobe24
Years ago
Hey I aint doubting they will def be around the mark, looking better than I thought. Was making fun of the 'anon' tag, but yeah Its more likely to be United NZ title series than any other scenario at this point.
So many idiots who have no opinion expecting their opinion to be true. Go away please.
Hang on, so they have an opinion, but your opinion is that their opinion isnt true... Im trying to follow your logic within your opinion of peoples opinion. Numb nut, its a forum people talk all type o things, let them be.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&t=16&v=tL0L64yplDU
history is history but it can make you very wary of some people..
paul
Years ago
Goulding is a flopper, was teched a number of times in Spain, but I know for a fact that he was flicked in the nuts in the play in Adelaide, that was certainly not a flop!
Today, on the other hand...
So you think the referee will be stood down. Full credit to United, they might have won anyway. But to have a ref decide a game with such a call, you'd have to think a standard needs to be set and that didn't teach the standard. And it is a shame because it tarnishes the United team, who to be fair were just playing ball - quite good ball as well
MACDUB
Years ago
Don't really understand why Melbourne fans keep saying stuff like "haters gonna hate" etc..saw it all over Facebook.
Sure if a team beats another by 20 and thoroughly outplays them fair and square, fans have no right to hate on that team. Credit where its due.
But turning around and playing the "haters gonna hate" card after your star player took a blantant flop (and winked after he got the call and smiled) is stupid.
FWIW, if UTD win this year it won't be because of refs..they're an excellent team and if they win it will be because of talent.
Sorry should read tarnishes United victory. Not suggesting United had anything to do with call
I initially thought the ref called Goulding for a tech for flopping. Was like wtf when they made the call
paul
Years ago
Worst bit was Goulding had his arms wrapped around Webster before the inbounds right in front of Pickering but no call. Then when Webster tries to free himself Goulding falls over and gets a call. Then despite the fact the two 'fouls' happened pretty much instantaneously the refs someone decide one was in a dead ball situation. Could you handle it worse if you tried?
MACDUB
Years ago
paul, in your experience how do international (and in particular NBA scouts) react/feel about flopping? Will this ongoing flopping deter teams or not?
Paul
It wasn't Pickering. The New Zealand ref who made the call was brown. He must be stood down
Touch the rim
Years ago
Paul, don't know how much international ball you've consumed lately but where do you think our league ranks compared to other domestic competitions around the world for both excitement and quality of basketball?
paul
Years ago
I personally think a high-quality NBL game is as entertaining as any hoops because of the speed, aggression and unpredictability, while a scrappy game of NBL is among the uglier exhibitions of pro hoops you'll see. Overall though I think the league ranks pretty highly for entertainment.
In terms of quality, outside of the NBA and the richest clubs in Europe our teams would be competitive, the only weakness in the league being teams' lack of genuine quality big men off the bench.
koberulz
Years ago
http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/11/06/deep-dives-measuring-level-of-competition-around-the-world/
Luuuc
Years ago
We might not make the top 30 but we're kicking the Icelandic Dominos League's arse!
paul
Years ago
For those who can't be bothered reading the link, someone was trying to project players into the NBA, ie what their performances in other competitions would equate to in the NBA. Based on 2012 stats he ranked the NBL the 7th best national league and 10th best league overall.
That's not far off the mark, although obviously the NBA D-League's ability to produce NBA players surpasses its quality due to the lack of team play.
paul
Years ago
Sorry, the NBL is actually the 6th national league and 9th overall. 2012 league rankings using that method:
1 NBA
2 (Euroleague)
3 Spain
4 (NBA D)
5 Italy
6 (Eurocup)
7 VTB United (former Soviet countries)
8 Adriatic (former Yugoslavia)
9 Australia
10 Turkey
I'd say since then Australia, Turkey and the VTB United have strengthened a bit.
paul
Years ago
My bad again, the ratings are using data from 2012 to this season for most of the similar standard leagues to the NBL, so take it as it is. Like I said, that's pretty similar to my personal rankings, although I'd have Turkey and the VTB United a little higher, Italy and the Adriatic a little lower, and the NBA D quite a bit lower.
There is definately a conflict of interest, but LK has done an awesome job launching the new look NBL. He knows what he is doing so no surprise his team is going well too. I doubt that this has an affect on game day. The league is better with LK running the show.
Just fear the refs get intimidated into making some of these shocking calls. Blatant flops by Goulding this season yet the refs still have not picked up on it. Think the WWE refs would do a better job.
Only issue I have with the Nbl so far. The refs have been terrible
How can there be a conflict of interest when Kestleman has removed himself from a MU dealings?
What advantage does that give him BTW? Win a prize? FFS without him the NBL was farked. So many stupid people, so many conspiracies.
THe money they MU people has spent is getting a job done. Pretty clear to me.
paul
Years ago
If he is still a Melbourne United owner there is a conflict of interest, but I'll take that in return for what he's delivered the NBL so far.
So what should the correct call have been? Foul on pledger and no call on the other because it was after the whistle and a flip in any case?
gaikokujin
Years ago
As a Perth fan I hate New Zealand (jealousy) but tonight they were clearly robbed.
Kestleman should give just give his team the trophy and let the rest to play off for 2nd place.
Its amazing all the people who winged about Marvin's power in past seasons who are now supporting Kestleman.
gaikokujin
Years ago
Twitter is going off
Childress, Gliddon, Jawaii, Ingles, even Anstey...
yes it is definitely set up for Melbourne to win, all the other teams are in on it and are happy for it to happen, the nbl has paid the refs off so they will give them the game, Melbourne and the refs go thru their game plans together whilst holding hands and organizing catch up drinks after the game. what a dumb question to ask.
That's because Marvin is a ruthless jerk. Kestlemen has done wonders for the league, and the conspiracy theorists can sit in the corner with the dude with the tin foil hats. 36ers fan too, be concerened about United lack of care for the 'salary cap' but for the league guaranteeing them wins...
Dazz
Years ago
Yes, there is a massive conflict of interest.
Who's going to investigate their alleged salary cap violation? This kind of thing can be overcome by using independent auditors, but you still have the inherent problem that everytime there is an issue with MU, you have to complain to the bloke who owns both them and the league.
It also means that everytime there is something "notable" or "questionable," it's hard to distinguish corruption from conspiracy theories.
Wilson Sting
Years ago
Yes anon 831. there should have just been the foul against Pledger and nothing else. no-one has thus far mentioned Kickert holding onto TeRangi, which was just us USF-like as Webster, so those two should have negated each other.
LV
Years ago
So what was the correct call?
The Majok foul was a fraction of a second earlier. But I'd have no issue with the refs applying discretion and treating the Webster foul as being at the same time as the Majok foul.
However, if the ball is yet to come into play its a dead ball USF. By a fraction of a second sometimes. Which is not that different.
So what I'm asking is this: what is a dead ball foul? Before possession, or just not *in possession* ?
Disgrace this has NBA and corrupt refs all over it!!
Something smells about the united home game close finishes!!
It isn't exciting to watch blatant refi g errors!
Worse still to follow it up with the pledger foul is even worse, at least let it go to OT instead of anther poor call to insure United get to the line.
LV
Years ago
Just had clarification on that point from Ozhoops. Koberulz posted excerpt from the rules.
Usf is only meant to be *pre*,possession ie when the ball is on the sideline and about to be passed in.
boxed out
Years ago
Pledger had possession so the ball was in play.
Goulding holding Webster prior to the inbound pass is the only possible foul prior to the ball being in play.
Kickert with the hug and Webster's "push" are simultaneous. Both a micro second after Majok foul is whistled. Neither should be USL.
Worst part of the USL call is, that push off happens virtually every inbound
It doesn't matter whether the ball was in play or if it was sitting under a chair somewhere. A foul can only be called unsportsmanlike on the DEFENSIVE player unless it meets any of the other criteria.
Art. 37 Unsportsmanlike foul
37.1. Definition
37.1.1. An unsportsmanlike foul is a player contact foul which, in the judgement of an
official is:
• Not a legitimate attempt to directly play the ball within the spirit and intent of
the rules.
• Excessive, hard contact caused by a player in an effort to play the ball.
• Contact by the defensive player from behind or laterally on an opponent in an
attempt to stop the fast break and there is no defensive player between the
offensive player and the opponent's basket.
• Contact by the defensive player on an opponent on the court during the last 2
minutes in the fourth period and in each extra period, when the ball is out-ofbounds
for a throw-in and still in the hands of the official or at the disposal of
the player taking the throw-in.
slammin'08
Years ago
I posted the above by the way. I have started a new thread to discuss the rule in question if anyone is interested in participating. I don't want to get in on the idea of the game being rigged or anything of that nature.
Train
Years ago
Wondered how long it would take a thread like this to appear this season lol
They are a very talented team that's received a little bit of home cooking. Very fortunate to get away with wins against Perth and NZ but wait till this team has gets on the road before bringing out the conspiracy theories. It won't be so easy getting wins in Perth, NZ and Adelaide in particular.
A little bit of home cooking? I would say that unsportsmanlike call was unfathomable. The Holt one at the end I'm willing to let slide but there is just absolutely no rationale for the unsportsmanlike. The refs even discussed it for a solid amount of time and came up with that solution. It requires the nbl to come out with a statement saying the refs totally ballsed it up and will be disciplined by sitting out a week. Extraordinary.
They even spoke to someone behind the bench for clarification, i can only assume that was an offical that should know the rules.
swish
Years ago
Considering the state of the league for the past 10 years I'm OK with Melb being set up to win the title if thats the price we pay for the exciting games and brilliant coverage available just 4 months after LK took over.
If the alternative to this was a 6 team comp, with no coverage I know which I would take.
Games like we have are drawing the attention of mainstream media. We have controvesies etc like AFL,NRL etc but that just gives people something to talk about.
Everyone knows who is paying the bills....the bloke behind the bench especially as he is easily replaced!
paul
Years ago
I don't think LK has had anything to do with the exciting games! The NBL has been an exciting league for a long time it just hasn't had the coverage or the hype, which LK has now provided in spades.
Ricky
Years ago
As said before, if that's what we have to put with to get basketball back on the map in Melbourne, then all good... as long as my Cats win the title in the end, ;)
FM
Years ago
Ball given to Holt for final free throw and Majok is not lined up. Then enters before the ball hits the ring, clearly going to early.
Considering the extra free throws and automatic ball to defensive team all round, penalising players entering early has been a point of emphasis this round.
Except when that could cost Melbourne the win?
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