Another 11 point blowout coming up, just like the last 2 Taipans games.

@CJKRobinson
Wildcats injury update: Martin & Prather flew east but likely to miss Hawks game. Cats hopeful on Jawai (quad) & Knight (shoulder) #hardball

@CJKRobinson
Wildcats injury update: Martin & Prather flew east but likely to miss Hawks game. Cats hopeful on Jawai (quad) & Knight (shoulder) #hardball

I was tipping Illawarra even before all the additional injuries to Perth but hey who knows.

If Jawai, Knight, Martin and Prather sit this one out we will most likely be looking at a starting lineup of Kenny, Beal, Hire, Redhage and Jervis with Wroe, Vague and Wagstaff coming off the bench(can't remember who the other development player was).

Thats a real tough ask considering Hawks will be close to full strength and in good form. Ogilvy should have a field day.

Maybe perth can give the assistant coach some court time

Illawarra were already favs long before Perth had injuries.
Let's hope the Perth softies lose another one.

#903 Perth weren't really responsible for that injury crisis game so not sure why "getting square" or "what goes around comes around" applies. I think the phrase you wanted as "wow, what a coincidence!"

Cats dying off very quickly, Hawks will win this and it'll be done by the half for mine...

Rumour mill: Bevo on a one year contract as he will move back west wi the a naturalised Lisch next season.

epic if true rmq

I believe cats management would welcome Bevo back if it was the right fit.

The right fit being that he brings Lisch with him.

As a fan. I'd like to see Bevo back only if Lisch is naturalised as well.

The Bevo era wildcats teams were successful, but boring with no athletic players,

Expect a big shake up if the cats miss the playoffs this season.

Also add a new Brisbane team in the mix diluting the talent pool.

Changes could be a foot.

Did I read that Lisch's wife and her family are from Sydney?

Lish's wife is from he gong he its going anywhere.

RMQ, I thought the same thing. Why would Bevo & Lisch only sign 1yr deals, They're coming home...

Bevy's family is still living in and based in Perth. If an offer is thrown his way by Perth I think its a no brainer as to where he will go.

Sorry I mean Bevo

Bevo would know that Spenceley treats the Hawks as a play thing and his interest will die off pretty quickly. He won't want to put himself or his guys through another meltdown like they went through at West Sydney.

Back to the topic of the game, is there any final information on injuries and who will play?

From the NBL site it says Lisch is a starter and Rhys Martin is subject to a fitness test.

How about on the Wildcats side?

Just want to clarify. I'm neither for or against Bevo moving.

I'm just relaying rumours. And that's all it is.

Yes Bevo was constrained by money, club recruiting etc. I'd like to see what he does with a blank canvas (for example a team that misses the playoffs for the first time in 30 years).

Haha tend to agree, someone says something and everyone just jumped on it! everyone for the Hawks signed 1 year deals this season as far as I remember. To do with restructuring there contracts to survive. Anyways this will hopefully be a better game than I think, but if even half the guys the Cats say are injured are out, it'll be ugly Hawks are clicking, sharing the ball and enjoying the style buying into Bevo's system.

Lol "desperate Perth fans"? I think more respect for Bevo as a quality coach than anything else. Sounds like Anon has some sour grapes...

Apparently the big tip is Bevo will coach Boomers after Rio, meaning he cant coach in NBL. I suggested he could do dual roles, but Boti said on twitter that FIBA qualification process is changing - coach needs to be full time

Where did this Beveridge sacked talk start? He left because he wanted the Boomers gig. And the Wildcats were good to watch under Beveridge - actually had players who could hit 3-pointers.

I will go for Hawks in this one. The true test will be the type of game (low scoring or high scoring) it will be. If it is say 35-33 at the half the wildcats are controlling the game with their unique style of boring ball. If Hawks are 40 points plus at the half they are looking good because we know the wildcats struggle to score 60 in 40 minutes.

RMQ makes an interesting point about unathletic teams of Bevo. Today's personnel would be better, but would they shoot the ball well enough for Bevo system to work?
There is no doubt Bevo is a better coach than Gleeson. With Lisch naturalised.. WOW.. Just the 3pt shooter we need!

Even better would be Brian Goorjian, or if we can really dream.. How about Obradovic?

Reply #558005

Wildcats couldn't sit around and wait for the decision. They had roster decisions to make etc. No problem Bevo going for gig, but club cant sit and wait, it was the correct call. Whether or not Gleeson was correct decision is another story - I think winning a championship justifies it, even though it was on the back of James Ennis.

Bevo was stepping away from coaching for a while, regardless. He was not sacked, due to his style or otherwise. All these anons can keep inventing as much stuff as they want to.

And the one who said its all crumbling away as expected? What, you picked a team that has been in the playoffs for thirty years to miss a year, and you think it proves something, after one loss? What an idiot.

How would we/you know that? Why can't we just take Marvin and Beveridge at their word. Why do we need an ulterior motive.

We humans love a good conspiracy story thats for sure

That isn't to say the club did everything perfectly either. But this "Marvib sacked him his a tool" nonsense is complete bullshit.

WV, that isn't quite right. You have got your timings mixed up.

Super
I could be wrong - It's happened once or twice before - but my understanding was Beveridge contract was up in June, Boomers job given to Lemanis late April, club already had deal with Gleeson but couldn't announce officially until Bevo contract was up.

Do we know who is playing for Perth yet? Jawai, Prather and Martin all big question marks at this point.

No I don't think that was the case. Between the pressure of battling Lemanis for the Boomers gig, and the (unfair) pressure coming from the club of "title or else", Bevo was not enjoying coaching. He wanted time off but the club decided to move on instead.

Martin is out, Prather is warming up, no news on Jawai yet.

Prather confirmed out

Jawai in

From Twitter : " WILDCATS ALERT: Martin (calf) and Prather (knee) will remain out for today's game. Knight (shoulder) and Jawai (quad) will suit up. Wroe in. "

Dunno if its a good idea risking Jawai and Knight if they are already carrying injuries. The season is still young.

Major backcourt issues again hey.

Wroe is me!
- Gleeson

Going to be a bit of a small vs tall game. If Ogilvy can contain the bigs, this could get pretty ugly for Perth.

Knight's shoulder wont get worse, not sure about Jawai however. I assume he 100% considering how cautious they've been with Martin.

We need the Hawks shot to be off today

Yeah, REALLY off! Like, Greg Hire-level off.

Anyway, I'm fine with effectively writing this one off as a loss if it means not taking injury risks.
Being 2-2 after 2 home & 2 away games is hardly a disastrous position.

i mean if the Crocs can beat Wildcats at home, anythings possible.

If Illawarra have an off shooting night, then anything could happen.

If Illawarra can shoot the ball well, or even at a decent level, then they should win comfortably.

This Perth lineup is unlikely to be able to keep pace with Illawarra in a run and gun, fast paced game. Hawks will have too much firepower. If Perth can control the pace, turn it into a bump and grind half court affair, control the ball, ie: limit turnovers, and hope that none of Illawarra's shooters go off, that would all put them right in the game.

Wildcats views cheers for the player updates

Agreed LV - Knight will struggle defending Forman out on perimeter. Hopefully 'Cats can exploit him in the post at the other end. But man there's like 9 guys on that roster capable of hitting 3's at an efficient rate. Scary

On the flipside there's like 9 guys on our roster incapable of hitting 3's, so that should cancel it out and make for an even contest.

Luuuuc - I'd laugh but the truth hurts

Where's that dude that predicted the Crocs by 2 the other night. We need a nostradamus type prediction going the Wildcats way

King James - no problem, I wish it was better news

Let it go, I say.
Shit happens, and our health situation right now is indeed shit. Nothing we can do about that today (except play it safe with anyone who is doubtful, to make sure things don't get even worse)

So to me this one is already a loss. It's a free hit at the Hawks. Nothing to lose, except a chunk of money if the Cats happen to get up :p

I was going to get on Illawarra at $3.25 for 11+ yesterday (or was it Friday?), but didn't. Now they're out to $2.80, don't think it's worth it.

Hawks gambling more than they need to early on. Why give us cheapies until it is proven that your normal honest D won't stifle us?

Perth size is a big factor right now.

Perth owning the boards.

Wagstaff has been terrible for a few games now

Illawarra have a very scary starting 5 and a very un scary bench.

This is a good pace for the Hawks, can Perth keep it up?

Davidson just getting old? He's been struggling early this season.

Jawai does seem to use his arms a lot on rebounds

Davidson seems to have no lateral movement or speed

It's hard to get free throws when you run 80% of your possessions on the perimeter.

Foul-wise I'd only have issue with the hand-checking by Perth and the pushing on rebounds. Other than that, it seems about right

5 assists for Jawai already.

Ogilvy has to go to Rio!

Foul count is pretty even. Can't just look at the free throw numbers. Illawarra aren't running a game plan that involves getting to the line every possession, Perth are.

Don't feed the trolls

#074, there is no easy way to say this but you're a fucking idiot.

Is it just me, or does Jawai look like he's wearing flippers when he runs?

What's with the music drowning out the commentators? Horrible...

Hawks should just go small, run and gun and expose Perth.

Jawai isn't exactly mobile and Knight is moving at snails pace (due to his injuries).

Perth are doing very well to be only 3 points down.

So the slow boring old past-it Cafs have kept up with the high scoring Golden State Hawks for a half, despite being less fresh and undermanned. Can't complain about that.

Beal is a pretty good baller!.

Can the Cats keep it up for a full game though?

Or will the game slow down to a half court grind it out kind of game?

I don't know but jawai 7/5/6 at half time is pretty nice! Imagine when he is in better shape..

Is there an ignore option?

Jawai is pretty much automatic in the low block but right now they are using him as a playmaker of the low post.

He needs to start looking for his shot more and attack AJ to get him into foul trouble!

Roy Hobbs, no I don't think they can keep it up. I just think the earlier calls that they are finished/can't score etc are way too premature.

I just went to get a screen cloth for my phone because I thought there was some shite on it , but then I realised it was just another anon post.

26 posts in 20 minutes saying the same thing?

What kind of retard are you?

Wow !! This is turning out to be a cracker of a game

Knight runs like he is titlting all over the joint,.

Hey anon, there have also been 23 points scored in three and a half minutes. Who is complaining about that.

I thought shooting was supposed to be Kenny's thing? Has looked very timid tonight and against us too.

Very impressed with Beal and Knight.

Kenny is hesitant. Why? He can shoot the 3. Check out NZ vs Aus

Boom !!! Wagstaff

Man, this is an offensive showcase for both Teams in the 3rd

Definitely not the sort of game that you'd expect to see with Perth playing, that's for sure.

Weeks is so legit.

This is a great game to have live on FTA!!

This game is prettier than Isaacs brother.

I just knew Jawai would get dicked this season!

So you hate everyone to ever get an USF??

Where was this effort from the Cats against the Crocs! The have been pretty easy on the eye today, and high scoring too. Just a great quality game for TV viewing.

Holy crap!!! Why is Wagstaff not starting over Redhage. And when did Hire learn to shoot ?

Knight is a beast

Illawarra have missed some big shots late here.

Redhage is having a nightmare!

Why run that play for Coenraad. Good shooter.

But geez you want Lisch, Forman or Penney stroking that.

Illawarra can only blame themselves if they lose this.
So many opportunities.

Hawks had there chances, this one will sting. Redhage is a real issue for the Cats.

Matt Knight earned them that win. Huge effort.

Perth most probably wont be in the big dance, but really gutsy win these are the types of wins that make fans come back for more.

Wow , just wow . That was a brilliant game and a tremendous effort from Perth given their injury problems. My heart is still jumping out of my chest.

I had written this game off before it even started. Faith restored.

Damn. 2 bigs injured. 2 guards out. And still won on the road. Write them off at your peril.

Perth showed the heart that Townsville did on Thursday. Matt Knight outstanding. Live by the three die by the three!

I lost $200 but I'll take that win any day of the week.

Fantastic win!

Makes up for the loss to Townsville I think.

What does this say about Illawarra? Gave up 106 points to a team with a stinky offense and one of their main weapons glued to the bench in the second half with foul troubles.

Amazing game. I am LOVING the NBL this year. Amazing games and talent and great commentary. Loving the mixture of the pro commentator with the past player!

Yeah weird comment Rosen made about the Hawks being the best team today... Hawks really shouldve been able to close that out at home and the lead. Live by the 3 die by it, both teams best players stood up. Love guys like Beal and Lisch, going at it.

As someone mentioned earlier that Townsville loss was probably the best thing that could have happened to the Cats. Idealy you want to win every game but sometimes you need a kick in the backside to wake you up.

Right up there. Two genuine contenders going at it toe to toe all game!

Damn, what a game. Gutsy effort from Perth. Stifled Hawks 3 point looks at the end and contested everything. It paid off.

Seems Matty wasn't affected too much, monster game by him.

Brilliant effort by Perth. Game of the year so far and they were excellent. I would not have thought that Perth line up would score over 100 but they did it.

Bench players Wagstaff, Kenny and Hire stood up when it mattered.

Perth deserves favouritism every bit as much as United.

And here come the guys putting their bets on after the game is finished again...

Wow they scored 100 points in a game.. Great to see and hope it continues !

The crap talking comes from both sides, it's not just Cats haters.

It should have no place in this thread, it was an awesome game. I had money on the Hawks, but also the over so half a win haha.

Yeah anon, I did say that, with the assumption that Jawai was to miss and potentially Knight. So what your point, they played, it was a great game. IF they hadn't have played id stand by that prediction. Smh...

Perth now faces two massive games that could have a huge bearing on the standings on seasons end. They travel to Melbourne to face the United on Thursday and return for the grudge man on against the Hawks on Sunday.

It will be hard to beat the United without both Damo nd Prather out both if they are both healthy well it is a even money game. The Holt v Beal matchup will be amazing.

If the Cats beat the Hawks again the get the split on the tiebreaker if they finish with the same record. This two games are massive!

Hey you felt the need to point out my pick directly so just responding to that anon. Weirdo...

Ok buddy no worries, you were right, I was wrong. Man I bet that feel good eh

anon 253 - what exactly is your beef ? I'm a cats fan and even I tipped this gane to be over by the half. I don't think Kobe24 has to justify his comments.

I didn't think they'd win either (glad they did) because of the ongoing injuries, the new ones from Friday, plus the potential for fatigue. Why does getting a prediction wrong need to be justified to a window-licking anon?

Wow, some folks should not be given internet access haha Charming individual, no connection to Cats for life... haha

Yeah I did. I thought they would lose, and the Hawks were paying reasonable odds. Whats wrong with placing that bet? What difference does it make to you?

Are you in a tipping comp? Do you pick your team to win every game?

It hasn't been a good day for anons on this forum. The Minda Bus must have free wifi.

Just got done watching that one and man, what a game.
Have to echo what others have said about Matty Knight. He just would not say die. Awesome. Beal was huge too. His stamina is on another level.
Not sure where we found the energy to play that out like that, but it was great to see, and I think it also backs up the NBL's new schedule. Having a day's break makes a noticeable difference compared to back-to-back games on consecutive days.

Commentary and the quality of the telecast overall was good quality.
Hawks would be disappointed though, as the Cats would have been after Friday, for letting that one get away.

Greg Hire was shooting 20% for the season prior to that game. Picked a useful time to go 4/5

Agreed, that was just a weird little outburst! Well good round of basketball nonetheless, so as a ball fan I'm happy!

Hi guy's, I'm back. Great win, Hawks are good if the triples go down, Perth is just Perth! like or hate them just don't bag them, they have been the most consistent team for 29 years, hate them but you have to respect them.

kobe24 you are a bit of a duse bag!

Ahh what timing! Ive been called worse...

You're a fine looking sort, K24.
I had no idea you were black.

You would think so far the top four teams are in order


United
Wildcats
Hawks
36ERS



right now. If Perth beats the United they go on top. I think after a few more games and once the 6ers new import settles in they could be challenging Perth and the United for top spot.

I didn't think we could do it today Kobe but hey we're not anon know alls.

Gutsy win.

Just wish Gleeson would STFU.

Lol @ this forum.

All for betting against your team if the odds are good, creates a win/win situation. Your team wins, you're happy, they lose, you cash in, happy days fellas.

Probably the same reason you are writing off Perth lol

NZ has lost to Perth, Hawks and the 6ers so far this season. How can you put them in the top 4 as of right now?

"All for betting against your team if the odds are good, creates a win/win situation. Your team wins, you're happy, they lose, you cash in, happy days fellas."

It works even better for Perth punters because Perth has a lot of basketball fans and the Cats traditionally get a lot of money their way, so I find that our odds tend to be shorter than I think they "deserve" to be.

I got today wrong too but still think it was a smart bet.
As I said yesterday
"That's my favourite type of bet ... I'd be happy to lose my money if the Cats can pull out a road win."

Very happy this evening :)

"NZ has lost to Perth, Hawks and the 6ers so far this season. How can you put them in the top 4 as of right now?"

More to the point, how can you have 2 spots in the top 4 being taken by Melbourne? They are the same team as United last time I checked ;)

I expect NZ to be in the mix by the business end of the season. I think it's pretty pointless getting too carried away with arguing over top 4 predictions at this early stage though.

Here's my recap of today's beautiful game

http://wildcatsviews.com/2015/10/25/perth-wildcats-stunning-win-over-illawarra-hawks/

Melbourne is 5-0. NZ is 2-3.BTW I did say if Perth wins on Thursday they will go on top.

I personally don't see a reason why people are bagging out Kobe24 for his predictions, it was just his general opinion on how the game would go, as much as I don't always agree with Kobe24 he has a right to share his thoughts

Thanks for the kind words.

Regarding turnovers, Wagstaff made three errors, Redhage made that one on the baseline throw.

It is games like this, the huge upset wins, the massive individual efforts, injured players willing their team over the line and the unpredictability of the games that is making the league excellent viewing this season, great stuff!

#hardballonhardfloors

@Wildcats Views I liked your recap, I thought rebounds really won it for the Wildcats last night, I also watched Nate Jawi play closely, at times he was giving up fouls that were let go so while he may be unlucky to have been given his 5th in that game I think I counted about 20 on him and against him...

That's a hard one, becuase it is so qhysical in the post, especially when he plays, that officials can't actually call it as they see it or he would be off with 5 fouls and his opponent would have 4 in the first 10 minutes of most games.

So, what we are seeing is tollerance, which in basketball terms means inconsistent officiating, but I can't see what else they can do at this stage, can you?

Sad finish by the Hawks who got rattled once Perth took the lead. Some questionable shots at the end - seen some mentions of Coenraad's, but the worst for me was Lisch's off balance, long two when they could've used a safer option.

Perth's rebounding and interior D was just too strong.

Knight was a warrior. Hopefully anyone who doesn't get why he keeps making All-NBL teams watched that.

Interesting thing is that the Cats might've expected to go 1-1 that round, backing up against the Hawks. Still went 1-1 after the Crocs horror, but this will prove to be a more useful 1-1 as it gives the win to the Crocs (predicted to struggle) and denies one to the Hawks (tipped to finish higher up the ladder).

No Hawks starter played more than 28 minutes. Ogilvy had 21 points with no fouls. 8/12 FG. Like Gleeson earlier in the round, did Bevo coast too much and pay the price?

Poor rebounding killed the Hawks.

Ogilvy, Forman and Ellis played a combined 68 minutes and only got 4 defensive rebounds.

Perth had one less offensive rebound than Illawarra got defensive: 15 to 16.

It's rare that a team would lose a basketball game with keeping turnovers to 9 and shooting a load of 3's at over 40%. But when you get mauled inside that's what happens. This will be interesting seeing how United cope with Perth's size and presence on Thursday.

So, can we say that the styles were kind of opposite between these two and that's just where they are at.

Perth's inside game opens up its perimeter shooting and opportunities outside the arc, while the Hawks tend to rely on their 3 point shooters and hope that the inside game is good enough to pick up the scraps?

Kind of the way it worked out in this game too, I think... So, Melbourne have a similar game to the Hawks, well then the Perth v Melbourne game should be a douzy.

All I know after all the analyizing it this would make one hell of a playoff series!

while i like Bevo's free style offence....as the coach surely he should have taken more control in that last 2 minutes??
Poor coaching down the stretch !!

Martin should be playing on Thursday.

While Bevo's game plan is high octane offence, with almost all players having the green light from beyond the arc, the difference between the Hawks team and his previous Cats team is that he doesn't have the rebounders to negate any misses.

I will agree^ and suggest Melbourne, although they also tend to jack up quite a few threes at least have some more rebounding strength, especially with Majok Majok.

This is why my early call for an NBL final series is Perth V Melbourne, but to be honest who knows how it will end up this season, upsets in the finals could blow that prediction out the park!

Agree with the above two posts.

The other difference between United and Illawarra in terms of player personnel is that Goulding gives them an elite one on one scorer who can break the team out of a funk in a spectacular fashion.

Illawarra has nothing comparable to Goulding in terms of the way he can score. Penney is still a sweet shooter but you can see he's lost a step when he tries to go one on one- has committed many turnovers like that this season. Lisch gives them that to an extent, but he’s nowhere near the scorer Goulding is. So when Melbourne has an off shooting night from outside in terms of their catch and shoot, Goulding will be more capable of breaking them out of it by going against his man in a one on one.

Although, to be fair, Illawarra does have more 3 point shooters than Melbourne does.

And how many did the opposition score anon^?

Yes, it was an offensively minded, attacking and high scoring game, no one is saying otherwise, so what is your point of emphasis on how this happened?

Missing what point? We are specifically talking about Bevo's offence, and the pros and cons of it.

I will take a healthy or even semi healthy Knight over AJ, Jawai or Kickert or anyother big in Australia every day of the week and twice on a sunday!. He does so much for his team it's not funny. He will never be a spectacular highlight reel player but there is no one better who can get the job done day in day out. Typical meat and potatos guy.

Bevos offence is generated from trap and press defence. Get steals and run the court and pushe it down the other teams throat either via the 3pt line or open court fast break points.

If the salary cap means anything, then surely they couldn't sign another import in addition to the signings of Lisch, Penney and Ogilvy?

With the points cap, having so many players who have been with Wollongong for 5+ years (Coenraad, Demos, Davidson, Forman) they'd have a lot of loyalty discounts?

From the article above:

"We are going to learn from this experience. The guys are gutted," Beveridge said.

"They are very disappointed because I thought we were the better team the whole time.

"I thought our game plan was good.

"It is hard down the stretch when we do spend time going this is how we are going to close the game out and we just didn't."

Or if Forman and Coenraad hadn't missed two or three wide open threes in the final couple of minutes, even.

If i have kevin lisch open for a go ahead 3 any single day of the year im taking it and living with the results. You dont bring in star players to play it safe when they have made a career out taking the hero ball and making it. Cmon now...

Awesome game, just one of those rare ones where several players all have exceptional games together.
I don't know if you could perhaps put it down to motivation from the earlier drubbing, but Beal, Knight, Hire and Wagstaff all had massive games. Whilst for the Hawks Lisch had a great first game back, and Ogilvy, Weeks, and Ellis were all exceptional.

Dolla BEALLLLLL is the real deal, for real, he had Lisch for a meal.

Larry Davidson is passed it. Two shots under the basket he goes up lamely and gets the ball smoothered, not even a block was necessary as there was no airtime.

Passed it when he should have shot it

What was up with Reddeg? Tired? Sick? Or just an off night?
Missed most of his shots, had little impact, and (probably as a consequence) had less minutes than usual.

Redhage has been having a problem scoring for a while. But on Friday night against the Crocs he was the only one keeping us in front. Seemed to be doing it by sheer force of will, hustling and grabbing rebounds everywhere.

"I remember Larry Davidson wearing a bandanna throughout his time at the aptly named Hunter Pirates. That was funny. But that is a team now in the passed."

Haha, that was so good I had to copy & passede it.

Dazz how long have you been following NBL for? Davidson has been in it for a decade plus. He is what you can call a passed player.

He seems a pretty easy going dude so I doubt he'd be too fust.

Once Prather gets back Shawn can go back to be the backup SF. His lack of form wont be that much of an issue anymore

Yeah fair point. United and Perth are both stacked. So are NZ. Plenty of stacked rosters. Just seems like Hawks have too much depth to sign someone else.

United do have some fresh faces on their team too, to be fair.

Oh and btw if anyone thinks I've got Melbourne glasses on, check out my post history. I've written plenty in the past 24 hours about Melbourne and Perth. Including one post where I explained why United don't deserve to be clear favourites, even though they are with the bookies.

I bad game doesn't mean he's finished, especially when you consider he saw less minutes cos he was off and the other big guys were on fire.
He's started the season reasonably well, was just off yesterday which is why I asked the question.
I don't know why even semi-intelligent responses seem to be beyond most posters.
And for all those detractors, I challenge you to find a better value 4-point player to come off the bench.
When he backs up the 4 or 3, probably not a big deal either way. Wagstaff is shooting better form outside, Redhage handles the ball better.

Shawn is not finished as a quality player but he most certainly is finished as a star. He can still be a very, very good spark off the bench.